Prog 1695 : The Hunger.

[Kehaar]

Ok liked the prog for me not as strong as some of the recent ones.

Something is bugging me - why do the leftwing tolpuddle martyrs have an English flag with what looks like a British Union of Facists lighting embelm in the middle ? is there some pre invasion alternate history I've missed ?

[Jim_Campbell]

Was Alan Grant right to kill off Johnny Alpha? Sure he was.

Carlos Ezquerra didn't seem to think so -- that's why he didn't draw the story himself.

Plus, and I think this the key thing: he didn't create the character. I have never felt that killing off Johnny was Grant's call to make -- John may have been OK with it at the time, but people are allowed to change their mind.

Somebody earlier described the action as "throwing his toys out of his pram".

Actually, I said "taking his ball home" which it was, given that Alan has never made any secret of his motivation, and that was to ensure that they didn't hand the character off to anyone else. I'm afraid that I'm not particularly sympathetic to this position -- you want to dictate what happens to your characters? Self-publish, or find someone offering a creator-owned deal. If you take the work-for-hire contract, you know that means that you don't get to make those sort of decisions.

It's telling that this happened under the Burton/McKenzie era, when a lot of the old guard felt they were being sidelined and the fact that a property of the calibre of Strontium Dog was discarded in this manner kind of reinforces that.

Oh, and anybody who doesn't think the Final Solution is a great Stront story is wrong.

It's really only redeemed by some lovely McNeil art in the second half, for my money.

Cheers

Jim

[Huey2]

Hi Jim,

First up I'll agree with you that the Burton/McKenzie era wasn't tooth's best era and I'll agree to disagree with you on "The Final Solution".

On killing Johnny Alpha. You're right Alpha wasn't Grant's character. But,... (And my memory might not be 100%) - following "Oz" and the parting of the Grant/Wagner partnership Grant had taken over writing of Stront and Anderson with Wagner doing the bulk of the Dredds. When Grant decided to kill off Alpha he did so with the agreement of Wagner although (IIRC) Ezquerra favoured Alpha being lost in space. So, whilst Grant wasn't the creator of the character he was at this stage its custodian and had co-written the vast majority of the tales.

Yup you were right: "Taking his ball home". Sorry.
Self-publish? I'd have to disagree with you there. Self-publishing is a pretty hard way to make a profit without being a massive company and I'd have thought it would have been even harder back in the '70s and '80s. Creator owned deals were non-existant in a British comic back then. So your choices amounted to: keep the copyright and don't get publish or publish and lose your copyright. Had Stront been created in the last ten years then, yes I'd agree with you.

Having said all that: Am still thrilled to see Wagner and Ezquerra back on the strip. The flashbacks have been some of the best strips of the last 10 years, but I'm sure that whatever follows Alpha's resurrection will really be something.

- Ian

[jamesedwards]

If they wanted to negate Final Solution, they could have just branched off the continuity earlier - they're ignoring stuff anyway, they could have just ignored the very thing they're ignoring stuff to negate. It could have been done as a one-page announcement, leaving us the space this story took upfor some more sci-fi spaghetti western good stuff, rather "and then they did that... and then they did this... and then they did that..."

(Alpha should have died young or in early middle age: it suits the character. He should have died in a gunfight, not some space wizard bollocks. Final Solution isn't the ending to the character that he deserves)

[Judge Olde]

Ah, I've missed these kind of debates in recent times over on 2kreview which as some of you will know is soon closing its doors.

You've all made some valid points.

But fuck me, 20 years since Alpha died?*






























*maybe 

[Orlok]

Alpha should have died young or in early middle age: it suits the character. He should have died in a gunfight, not some space wizard bollocks. Final Solution isn't the ending to the character that he deserves

Not sure I agree with that. Alpha sacrificed himself to save his mutant brethren from a pretty grim fate. Surely that in itself is a heroic death regardless of any space wizardry dangly parts. 20 years ago (still doesn't seem right saying that...) that story blew me away becasue it was both brave and shocking. Regardless of whether AG was right to do it or not, it was one of his best written pieces. Far better than the majority of the boo-hoo mopey Anderson stuff.

Besides there is no law that says all heroic characters must die in a way that is both fitting and noble. I've often wondered if Old Stoneyface should bite the big one at the hands of some random street punk trying to kill a Judge to earn rep or even being hit by a wayward roadliner. Or from helmet rot.

Fully agree with you that they could have branched off earlier though. The Stronts have access to time travel still so don't understand why they couldn't use that. It's not like they have a Time Lord around to ruin their fun...

[jamesedwards]

Dredd getting taken out by a street punk would be more fitting than Dredd getting taken out by Judge Death. In comics a lot of strips stray from the core themes to their detriment, and Final Solution's a good example of that.

[Simon Fraser]

  never read the original death and never wanted to as simon frasers art put me off stronty dog in the day  and i never went back ( not even for colin)

Oi! That'll be some other Simon!
None of my doing.

[TordelBack]

While I can see why many people have problems with the drastically different art of TFS, I never understood the objection to the supernatural aspect of Johnny's death.  Maybe I'm coming at somewhat differently, but my first Strontium Dog was The Moses Incident, and possibly as a result I've always felt the strip was full of dark dimensions and sorcerous types.  TFS brought the two elements of anti-mutant hatred in Britain and the existence of the supernatural together very neatly.

on a different note, I'm not sure what we're expecting from the strip if Johnny ends up alive again.  He just picks up his badge and meter and goes off hunting the big bucks again?  Seems like dying for mutantkind and staying dead/missing for a decade would indicate a different outlook for the character, rather than a simple return to the status quo.  By which I mean live Johnny may not necessarily mean 'new' Strontium Dog stories in the old style.

[Leigh S]

on a different note, I'm not sure what we're expecting from the strip if Johnny ends up alive again.  He just picks up his badge and meter and goes off hunting the big bucks again?  Seems like dying for mutantkind and staying dead/missing for a decade would indicate a different outlook for the character, rather than a simple return to the status quo.  By which I mean live Johnny may not necessarily mean 'new' Strontium Dog stories in the old style.

Yeah, this is what I'm thinking too - For example, whats he been up to for those Stone Wizards for the past decade? If he does come back and just continues in the same vein as he was, you may as well have stuck with the flashbacks (unless you ahve a genuine advancing idea that also absolutely requires the threat of Alphas demise to be central to it, though i'm not sure what that might be)

[Colin YNWA]

Not forgetting that Johnny and Wolf had tried to find the quiet life before, until that all went wrong.

If he is still kicking about and that's still a big if, I hope he's ended up like Morgan Freeman at the beginning of 'Forgiven' settled down on a farm avoiding all stuff his life was before. That leaves the potential for him to come back but it would have to be something big and exciting... or small and important for him to do so.

There's some stuff in the recent 'flashback' stories that might set up a return to action? We'll see.

For what its worth I absolutely loved 'Final Solution' when it happened. It was so exciting and after Wolf's death geniunely you didn't know how it would turn out. I also adored Simon Harrison's art it was dramatic and different. After a re-read a while back it still holds up as a great story and I think a great end to John's story. The supernatural stuff drawing very well on stories that had gone before. I might not like Simon's work quite so much these days as the story telling lacks a little but its still really good, fresh and vital.

[James Stacey]

We all know Johnny is alive and well, working on a Mork farm.

[TordelBack]

We all know Johnny is alive and well, working on a Mork farm.

And getting some Angelina di Griz-styled milfy action too, one trusts.

[House of Usher]

I've often wondered if Old Stoneyface should bite the big one at the hands of some random street punk trying to kill a Judge to earn rep or even being hit by a wayward roadliner.

Judge Dredd has been amazingly lucky over the years. For one thing he's always avoided being at ground zero when the nukes have been falling, and there have been plenty of them over the years. No amount of combat skill is going to save him if he just happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. It's a good job Mega-City One is a big place.

never read the original death and never wanted to as simon frasers art put me off stronty dog in the day  and i never went back ( not even for colin)

Oi! That'll be some other Simon!
None of my doing.

That's a pretty big 'oops!'  I wonder how many times the artwork on Final Solution has been laid at Mark Harrison's door as well?

[House of Usher]

We all know Johnny is alive and well, working on a Mork farm.

And getting some Angelina di Griz-styled milfy action too, one trusts.

Mmmm. Looks... just like... his... sister.