Messages

[punching Nazis somehow never is.]

So, 'don't comment on a film you haven't seen' is subject to exceptions?

It's not advisable under any circumstances, but much as I would run screaming from the prospect of Shia La Boeuf starring in Michael Bay's production of Michael Fleischer's script for Dredd 2, objecting to a film that hasn't been made yet because its financial backers and cheerleaders are the actual objective scum of the earth is understandable. In the way that punching people is generally wrong, but punching Nazis somehow never is.

And honest German soldiers doing their duty?

[I don't actually know]

Funny, I just looked at the blog of arch MRA critic David Futrelle, in which he slags off the Red Pill, which he tells us he hasn't seen. Does that make him 'whiny'?

Yes, it would (although I haven't read the piece so I don't actually know), but Futrelle's site is heavily skewed towards irony and humorous effect, and I do know that his cited objection dates back to the film's Kickstarter and the demonstrable filth (like Milo Yiannopoulos, Breitbart and MR sub-Redditors) who supported it - so he couldn't possibly be expected to have seen the thing when he started objecting to it.  There's some merit in a 'if they're for it, I'm ag'in it' approach.

So, 'don't comment on a film you haven't seen' is subject to exceptions?

[Atomic Blonde (I haven't seen it]

I think John Wick's wife died of an illness. It was the killing of his puppy that drove him over the edge.

We're definitely seeing more decent roles for women in the action genre than ever before I think.
Off the top of my head - The Hunger Games, Fury Road, Wonder Woman, Atomic Blonde (I haven't seen it but it's been getting pretty good reviews), the new Star Wars films, Valerian, Tomb Raider reboot.
Even Suicide Squad, while featuring an incredibly sexualised Harley Quinn was pretty much sold on the popularity of that character (and if last year's NYCC is anything to go by, she's become one of the most cosplayed characters of the last few years).

Expect to be told off for making a comment on a film you haven't seen.

[Go see the film,]

Is it still entertaining if it's women being slaughtered is my point.

Firstly, it should be noted that you've raised this issue in respect of a film you have not seen, primarily based on the fact that this film stands alone in its genre as having a female lead.  Violence against men is the norm in huge swathes of the media, but you've complained about it here alone, which, along with your frequent mention of "red pill" gives the strong suggestion you are a whiny misogynist.

Secondly, violence against women is the norm in cinema, and has been since it's creation.  Indeed, it is a trope in pretty much all human entertainment since the beginning of time to present women  as victims who exist to spur a male protagonist to action.  Its a function of the sacred feminine in the monomyth theory.  It's why Princesses Leah awards the medals.  That you don't know this, and seem to believe that women are not victims of violence, makes you appear a whiny misogynist.

Thirdly, women have, throughout history, been the actual victims of violence, primarily at the hands of men.  Historically they have been disenfranchised, regarded as property, and been the first to suffer in times of strife.  Yes, men have suffered too, but the role of women historically and what this means to us a society must be taken into account when deciding whether or not to continue to present women as victims or violence, or take steps to present them in more proactive and positive roles.

Question answered. Go see the film, or stop complaining about it.

I think I said WW is an example and mentioned characters like Xena, Red Sonja, Hit-girl etc. Funny, I just looked at the blog of arch MRA critic David Futrelle, in which he slags off the Red Pill, which he tells us he hasn't seen. Does that make him 'whiny'?

Goodness, I've been accused of trolling, what would the reaction be if I replied to every message? As for violence I've never liked it being treated as entertaining.

Better stick to documentaries or 'real life' dramas then because just about every comic/action film is produced with entertainment in mind. Even a 'smart' film like RoboCop which features violence against both men and women – by men – is revelling in its depiction of violence.

Dramas that treat violence as bad do for me. Or satire.

Many years ago, we followed and respected people who, it was often believed, were chosen by some sort of devine power.  We raised them to the status of leaders - whist our myths were about those on the next step of the ladder, devine beings.

The 20th century saw the Rise of the Ordinary - individuals who were weren't particulary special, or who were known to be flawed, rose in prominence.  Working class men and women became heroes.  Depressive alcoholics led us in wars.   Our tales become not about Gods, but about supermen - people who actually were special or chosen.

The 21st century is quickly becoming the age of stupid.  Whole populations delight in taking political advice from the side of a bus, ignoring warnings from people who actually are experts, electing sleazy gameshow hosts to decide who gets bombed, screaming abuse at strangers over the internet.  Will the legends of the 21st century be about people who are just capable of making it throught the day?

That's an interesting point. My view is that history is the tale of murderous empire killing their way to power on a grand scale. Sticking only to the last 500 years the empires of Britain, Holland, France, Spain and Portugal killed millions, enslaved millions more. There's also the Soviet Union, communist China and others who've engaged in mass slaughter, but we in the west cannot boast of our humanity.
This was long before Trump and others of his kind. It's also getting off topic for a forum about film, so I'll leave it at that.

[. The argument came to an abrupt halt as soon as it was confessed that he hadn't seen the film that he was judging. That's complete ignorance.]

He's just making comment after comment without truly paying any attention whatsoever to what people are saying to him. The argument came to an abrupt halt as soon as it was confessed that he hadn't seen the film that he was judging. That's complete ignorance. As such I can't take anything else said as being educated or relevant. He has no credibility.

1. Is it men that Wonder Woman slaughters? Yes.
2. Do I need to see the film to know that? No.

I previously stated I'd stop posting here, but as others reply to my posts, I reply to them.

You've stopped replying to mine, buddy.

What's wrong with depicting fantasy violence against fictional characters*? What harm is done?


* in any quantity, justified, entertaining, or otherwise

Goodness, I've been accused of trolling, what would the reaction be if I replied to every message? As for violence I've never liked it being treated as entertaining.

Not everyone agrees with you,

I have no idea what point you think you're making. That movies should only depict men committing acts of violence against other men, and women against women, or that there should be no violence in movies, ever. Which is it?

I made it obvious, but here it is again. Films and tv shows that present violence, or action as the makers call it, as entertaining, show mass violence almost exclusively against men, WW being a good example. Note that I say 'action' films. Is it still entertaining if it's women being slaughtered is my point.

Britain, France and the USA won WW1 without any help from super beings.

Just because it comes hot on the heels of an article about the woeful lack of credit given to Indian soldiers (not conscripts) at Dunkirk, I should point out that Britain, France and the USA were joined by Australia, Canada, New Zealand, South Africa, the Soviet Union, China, Belgium, Brazil, Cuba, Czechoslovakia, Greece, Luxembourg, Mexico, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Korea and Yugoslavia.  No super beings though.  (and to illustrate the point about lack of credit where it's due, in my fact-checking for this reply I found a few of those who I had no idea had been involved).

Agreed. Soldiers from many countries who fought in WW1 and WW2 are often ignored by the media.

[She fights for the allies against the very, very evil Germans]

One of the things I loved about WW was that the film did not [spoiler]depict the Germans as the bad guys[/spoiler]. They are seen as the victims of war (Ares) as much as anyone. This in a way can stand as a metaphor for the patriarchy which is equally damaging to men and women. This is something that everyone on this forum has acknowledged despite coming to that conclusion in different ways. This is a good thing because I think men have been left out of the gender discussion for too long.

Not everyone agrees with you,

http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/166119

 Wonder Woman, the Amazon warrior with the golden lasso, bullet reflecting wristbands, magical headdress, non-stop bravery, lightning-quick reflexes, enormous power and good looks, is out on the battle field again, this time in World War I. She fights for the allies against the very, very evil Germans and the God of War, too, and does it in dramatic and thrilling fashion.


That's not the only person who sees Germans as being depicted as baddies. It maybe that different people interpret this differently, but one things sure. Lots of Germans die.

[an action movie]

It seems clear to me that Rogue Earthlet is trolling this thread so I don't understand why you keep engaging with this person.

Good point. I 'm out.

Yup.

Seems to me everyone in this thread is well aware on problems lots of men are facing. Luckily, not everyone thinks it must be debated because of an action movie that happens to have woman in the title.

Btw. If anyone's interested. Since the cat is out of the bag. I think this is a good article on the topic. Helped me help my dad get someone to talk to. https://www.vice.com/sv/article/jmbnp7/a-stiff-upper-lip-is-killing-british-men-344

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2017/jul/27/violent-femmes-atomic-blonde-and-hollywoods-new-wave-of-killer-women

It seems clear to me that Rogue Earthlet is trolling this thread so I don't understand why you keep engaging with this person.

I previously stated I'd stop posting here, but as others reply to my posts, I reply to them. Anything wrong with that?

[That one must be quite bothersome.]

I haven't seen WW, but I've seen the trailer and heard plenty, so here's my thoughts...

Watch the film instead. Much more exciting than watching trailers or reading reviews. Also much easier to form an opinion. Wether you like it or not.

I thought the film showed a war without sides. I can also add that I'm of (some) german origin, and I took no offence what so ever to the portrayal of germans in the film.

Your post got me thinking, what's your take on Indiana Jones then? That one must be quite bothersome.

It is.

[overwhelmingly]

I don't know where your comment comes from, but every review I've read, and that's many, has been totally different.

If you're referring to Wonder Woman, my comment comes from watching the film[spoiler]: the realisation that it isn't Wonder Woman + Allies=goodies Vs Germans=baddies, but rather Diana Vs War (personified in Ares, as a British toff)  is the central (if obvious) twist of the film - maybe reviewers were respecting that twist[/spoiler].

If you're referring to The Red Pill, also from watching the film, but if you want supporting comment,  the very first search result I get  on You Tube is an interview with Jaye which highlights the gormless disnigenuous crap at its heart: https://youtu.be/4vFpbjTaEYs. Apparently because victims of parental abuse can equally be male children, we need to stop blaming adult men for the (roughly) 85% of domestic violence they are responsible for, or the 50% of murdered women killed  by a current or former male partner. And on it goes.

Men are victims too, no argument, but they are still  overwhelmingly the perpetrators. Grow up and shove this contrarian bollocks.

Cassie Jaye is multiple award winning documentary maker,
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1787884/awards
She talks about what she learnt from making the Red Pill here,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LqbqUMXinQ

If you watch that you'll see that, like myself, she doesn't insult others with words like 'bollocks'. Perhaps you can learn from that.