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Author Topic: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi  (Read 119484 times)

The Legendary Shark

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #495 on: 21 December, 2017, 10:13:54 AM »
Surely most things are just plot devices at their base, from the Death Star (a plot device to provide a threat) to the Millennium Falcon (a plot device to get characters from A to B) to lightsabres (a plot device to cut through doors and things) to that whacking great asteroid dwelling worm thing in TESB (a plot device to push the Falcon back into the chase)? I thought those crystal fox things were lovely, my favourite TLJ critters.

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TordelBack

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #496 on: 21 December, 2017, 10:26:59 AM »
My favourite of the new creatures were the diamond dogs on Krait. They were beautifully animated.

These were my least favourite. Nicely animated and designed they might be but they were still only there to be used solely as a plot device.

And to populate a planet with more than minerals.  Some nonsense about air currents (Mines of Moria) or a map that R2 has could have served the same purpose, but these help establish the world as a distinct place.

JamesC

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #497 on: 21 December, 2017, 10:28:10 AM »
My favourite of the new creatures were the diamond dogs on Krait. They were beautifully animated.

These were my least favourite. Nicely animated and designed they might be but they were still only there to be used solely as a plot device.

Couldn't you say the same about Taun Tauns?

Mattofthespurs

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #498 on: 21 December, 2017, 11:17:02 AM »
My favourite of the new creatures were the diamond dogs on Krait. They were beautifully animated.

These were my least favourite. Nicely animated and designed they might be but they were still only there to be used solely as a plot device.

Couldn't you say the same about Taun Tauns?

Well, they were serving another purpose as transport.

Spaceghost

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #499 on: 21 December, 2017, 11:21:20 AM »
The crystal foxes were, at least in some scenes, animatronic puppets. Something I didn't realise when I watched the film.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJNfysZRmf4
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JamesC

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #500 on: 21 December, 2017, 11:25:17 AM »
The crystal foxes were, at least in some scenes, animatronic puppets. Something I didn't realise when I watched the film.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJNfysZRmf4

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Steven Denton

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #501 on: 21 December, 2017, 02:05:40 PM »
Surely most things are just plot devices at their base, from the Death Star (a plot device to provide a threat) to the Millennium Falcon (a plot device to get characters from A to B) to lightsabres (a plot device to cut through doors and things) to that whacking great asteroid dwelling worm thing in TESB (a plot device to push the Falcon back into the chase)? I thought those crystal fox things were lovely, my favourite TLJ critters.

You could reduce any element of the film to it's narrative function and claim its a plot device but for that to be true fiction would have to be nothing more than an arrangement of plot devices. Which it kind of is. but If those things seem to only exist to fill a particular narrative purpose, a plant and pay off, are they more of a plot device then an iconic battle station that serves as both the primary threat of the story and about half of the films locations?   

Arguably the crystal foxes appeared in the film for a single use and could have been replaced with any number of single use plot devices for finding an exit to the caves the caves.

However I can't see why this means they shouldn't have been used over any other type of plot device. and personally I like the crystal foxes. 

The Legendary Shark

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #502 on: 21 December, 2017, 03:29:46 PM »
I like 'em too. They didn't look out of place and just because they had only one plot function, aside from the "set decoration" purpose of inhabiting an alien planet, I don't think they were too contrived. How many times in stories have protagonists followed animals to escape an enclosed space? I don't think these crystal foxes were a bad idea or badly used, is what I'm saying. That whacking great asteroid dwelling worm thing in TESB had only one function as well and exists now as an iconic scene that nobody complains about. These beautiful crystal critters will probably never be as iconic but I'm glad they're there and I have no problem with their role in the narrative. They're certainly a better, more "Star Warsey" idea than somebody lighting a torch and following the smoke.



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Steven Denton

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #503 on: 21 December, 2017, 03:37:38 PM »
The cave monster is Iconic because it's a surprise and a great image. It's a location, a threat and a twist. the bat Things inside are more like the Crystal Foxes In my somewhat pedantic opinion. 

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #504 on: 21 December, 2017, 03:52:28 PM »
The hoth wampa has a sole purpose and that's to hit Luke in the face and explain Hamills scars, that's not even a proper narrative purpose and I still love the hoth wampa!

Mattofthespurs

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #505 on: 21 December, 2017, 03:56:48 PM »
Second viewing today (in 3-D) with my 13 year old Son who loved it.
He admitted that his expectations were low after listening to his Mother and I discuss the film but he enjoyed it all the same.
Personally I enjoyed this viewing much more. There are so many inconsistencies but because I had seen it before I managed to ignore them and concentrate on other things, like the performances.
It's still nowhere near my fave Star Wars film but there is much to love about it, including looking absolutely fabulous for the most part.
Of course the plot is hardly moved along at all considering the film basically takes place over twenty four hours, or thereabouts, and there is another fudge in the final scenes where we are told that the smaller craft leaving the main rebel cruisers will be unshielded, yet we hear in the background that shields are up, only for a main character to talk about the lack of shields later. There is the lack of the '3rd lesson' to Rey from Luke but I have read what that was and why it was cut but it's still a tad jarring. It's still far too long by at least 30 mins in my opinion but hey, what do I know.

I do know that I enjoyed it much more on it's second viewing. The faults are still there but this time instead of concentrating on those I was able to see the heart of the movie beating underneath and, at times, it's a beautiful heart.
Flawed but still a very good addition to the Star Wars family.

The Legendary Shark

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #506 on: 21 December, 2017, 04:07:13 PM »
The cave monster is Iconic because it's a surprise and a great image. It's a location, a threat and a twist. the bat Things inside are more like the Crystal Foxes In my somewhat pedantic opinion. 
The hoth wampa has a sole purpose and that's to hit Luke in the face and explain Hamills scars, that's not even a proper narrative purpose and I still love the hoth wampa!

I agree with you. I was responding to someone who disliked the crystal foxes entirely because they were a plot device - which just about everything in service to a plot is.

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Steven Denton

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #507 on: 21 December, 2017, 04:17:12 PM »
The cave monster is Iconic because it's a surprise and a great image. It's a location, a threat and a twist. the bat Things inside are more like the Crystal Foxes In my somewhat pedantic opinion. 
The hoth wampa has a sole purpose and that's to hit Luke in the face and explain Hamills scars, that's not even a proper narrative purpose and I still love the hoth wampa!

I agree with you. I was responding to someone who disliked the crystal foxes entirely because they were a plot device - which just about everything in service to a plot is.

I know, I found the idea that just about everything is a plot device interesting, because it's both true and untrue depending on how far you are willing to stretch the proposition. then I started thinking about what would be a more or less identical narrative analogy. Star Wars is such a huge body of work there had to be one

I couldn't see how the original criticism of the crystal foxes worked, so I started talking about your narrative ideas instead.

Strangely I didn't enjoy the film but I have found it incredibly interesting to dissect and discuss. Every one seems to have come away as if they have watched different films. the reactions and discussions and fights have been amazing!
« Last Edit: 21 December, 2017, 04:20:13 PM by Steven Denton »

The Legendary Shark

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #508 on: 21 December, 2017, 04:21:56 PM »
[shameless self-promotion] If you are interested in my narrative ideas, buy a copy of the latest Paragon comic! [/shameless self-promotion] :-D

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Mattofthespurs

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Re: Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
« Reply #509 on: 21 December, 2017, 04:40:40 PM »
I agree with you. I was responding to someone who disliked the crystal foxes entirely because they were a plot device - which just about everything in service to a plot is.

That would be me, and I disagree. Integral plot device. The caretakers aren't an integral plot device, neither are the porgs in my opinion. The crystal critters are, imo, there only to serve one purpose and that is as a plot device. And it's lazy despite how beautiful they look.