So Buffy is 20 years old. And i have a confession to make - I've never seen a single episode. At the time i saw it as i see Twilight now - geared towards bad-poetry-writing goth teens (as opposed to bad-short-story-writing semi-goth twenty-somethings, as i was then).
My recently-departed best mate Colin told me at the time it was excellent, and now all the nostalgic newspaper articles seem to back him up. So, and i suspect 99% of you watched it religiously, was it really that good? And should i watch it?
At the time, I enjoyed it. The show has its issues (for all its thoughts about diversity, it's very much 'skinny white people'), and to my mind was quite uneven in terms of quality. The first series has the show very much finding its feet, but the next three are still fun television. After that point, it was diminishing returns for me, the nadir being the sixth season, which was only really redeemed by a few interesting standout episodes.
Incidentally, sister show Angel is also pretty good and worth watching if you aim to plough through all of Buffy. You don't have to watch both, but there's quite a lot of crossover, and Angel is generally strong throughout, bar a few sub-arcs that will make your toes curl.
Well, I haven't seen it in a while, but I liked it when I gave it a try.
When it first aired it passed me by just didn't seem aimed at me, I gave it a go when it was airing around S4, although the BBC were mucking around with it with cuts/scheduling.
I enjoyed it and picked up the first three seasons on DVD - the first series tends to go more with 'Monster of the week' and looks a bit cheaper (shot on Super 16, think they switched for S4)
Depends how well you get on with Joss Whedon's other work really.
I had similar thoughts on Buffy as you did. I have watched it and one episode in particular I remember being particularly good. There was these silent beasties who maybe had their mouths sown up or some such. Don't remember much about.
Always known its held in high regard but not sure I'll ever find the time to watch it, which might be a shame.
As much as I like stuff like The Wire, I genuinely think Buffy is the best tv programme ever made.
Although I've watched an episode of ANGEL I've no idea which one or what happened. I've half-watched the Kristy Swanson movie.
Whedon's dialogue too often brings me out in hives so I've avoided the TV series and pretty much everything else he's been showrunner on, the exception being DOLLHOUSE.
You're not alone JBC, I've never seen an episode either. I couldn't muster the enthusiasm to ever try it.
I liked Buffy a lot. When it first came out I found myself groaning inside a bit, thinking it was aimed at the hip teen crowd. (That was a large portion of the audience to be fair, although it's possibly aimed even more at the 'not so hip' teen crowd..) However, when I gave it a chance, I found it to be a very interesting show. The character are all rather likeable. There is a lot of humour in the show, some of which was hilarious, but it also has that dark edge that you would expect from a horror show, and there were some episodes (Hush stands out in this regards) which are actually rather chilling. And it's not afraid to be very serious and poignant at times.
There is also a lot of complexity in the characters. They will play with certain stereo-types ('archetypes', might be a better word) , then do something to subvert them. Without spoiling too much, Giles, the stereotypical foppish English librarian* would be a good example of that. Cordelia the spoilt arrogant pretty cheerleader is another good example of an archetype that is subverted.
The secondary characters are also almost as important (if not as important) to the show as Buffy herself. They are very much the heart of the show.
I don't like everything about it. I sometimes felt they were being a bit overly raunchy and shocking for the sake of it in later series (they'd moved to a different network with more relax rules I think, so they decided to be 'more adult') , but I know many would disagree. (There isn't a lot of that, to be fair, even there, but I guess those little bits stood out, for that reason.)
Also, one of the romantic threads which I disliked, I know is largely loved by many, so obviously these things are a matter of opinion. And it did pay off later...
I think the positives of the show far outweigh the negatives, however, and I regard it as one of the best programmes that has been created. Angel isn't bad, either, although I thought it got a bit silly with the Cordelia/Connor arc, but again with the opinions.
Strangely, I never did buy the box-set of this show. Maybe I should rectify that, at some point.
*the type of character- not always a librarian to be fair - who is seen as quintessentially English by the Americans, who we actually don't see much of here in real world England, although I'm sure there are plenty of his type about.
I thought the Whedon dialogue between characters one of the best things about the programme, but I can understand it being a bit much at times, and not to everyone's taste.
It was alright, then it got a bit better. It looks really dated these days.
I generally enjoyed it but they should have left it after[spoiler] she died. (the first time).[/spoiler]
Oh yes Buffy was awesome. It vies with TNG for my favourite ever programme.
I haven't re-watched it since, as there is simply too much else to watch. I was tempted when it was all on Netflix but never found the time.
But absolutely reccomend it and Angel.
Back in the day BBC2 was pretty much THE sci-if channel with Buffy, TNG and DS9 in 6pm weekday slots. Plus Red Dwarf (not forgetting XFiles over on BBC1).
The excitment leading up to a new episode was more than any other show ever and once the music kicked in that was it.
Angel was great too but C4 cut it to shreds. I remember a fight scene in the first episode where they turn up and then straight away it was the aftermath. It was only when I saw it on Sky that it made any sense. The cuts to the dialogue as well just made it unwatchable on C4. It was like it was skipping like a CD with a scratch.
Quote from: Zarjazzer on 12 March, 2017, 01:53:58 PM
I generally enjoyed it but they should have left it after[spoiler] she died. (the first time).[/spoiler]
Yeah. That really did feel like an excellent full stop – and entirely appropriate for all kinds of reasons. Plus what followed in season 6 was, for the most part, risible tat. (7 was broadly better, in a manner not dissimilar to [spoiler]John Wagner destroying all his toys[/spoiler]).
Still, given that you can get both series in their entirety for 80 quid new – and probably half that second-hand – it's worth a punt for anyone who likes their TV horror. The good
does outweigh the bad by some margin, and both shows don't peter out. (The last series of Angel, to my mind, was very strong on the whole. Season 7 of Buffy isn't nearly a highlight, but it's way better than the dross of 6. Although I'll admit it's been a while since I watched them through. Too much footage, and not enough hours in the day! I'd quite like to watch Firefly right through again though...)
First watch it all on BBC2 first time it out, and still loved it!
Always the greatest series! Even Angel!
There always great episodes, many just fun entertainment, but some was powerful like The Body.
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My fave character of all; Spike
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The first three seasons were pretty good, and 3 was excellent, but it's probably quite dated now. If you're willing to make allowances for that, then it's well worth your time.
There are many reasons I like 3 the best, but the only spoiler-free reason is that it gets the exact right balance between having a new, stand-alone story each week and a continuing storyline developing through the season. The previous seasons were, as has been said, a bit "monster of the week," and the later ones were basically interminable soap operas.
In my view, the quality declined steadily during season 4, and it jumped the shark half way through, after which I stopped watching it. Gave it another chance when 5 started; hated it. Saw a few episodes of 6, thought it was okay (and it had a couple of good stand-out moments in it), but didn't like it enough to follow 7 the next year. Saw the last ten minutes of the last ever episode, and was glad I hadn't bothered.
If you only try one series, you could actually start with 3, as it's still easy to pick up who everyone is. But if you decide to start at 1 and you think it's alright but not great, then stick with it: it becomes brilliant.
Quote from: Zarjazzer on 12 March, 2017, 01:53:58 PM
I generally enjoyed it but they should have left it after[spoiler] she died. (the first time).[/spoiler]
I'm assuming you don't mean the time she [spoiler]drowned at the hands of the Master..[/spoiler]. Cos that'd be a very short series.
If you mean [spoiler]The Gift[/spoiler], then good grief no! What follows from that event are some of the best moments in TV history, not least
Once More With Feeling, which has a good claim on Greatest Single Episode of Anything Ever.
Quote from: Richard on 12 March, 2017, 04:21:49 PMIf you only try one series, you could actually start with 3, as it's still easy to pick up who everyone is.
But then you'd miss s2, which would be much wrongness.
Quote from: TordelBack on 12 March, 2017, 04:38:24 PMIf you mean [spoiler]The Gift[/spoiler], then good grief no! What follows from that event are some of the best moments in TV history, not least Once More With Feeling, which has a good claim on Greatest Single Episode of Anything Ever.
Season six: some great
moments, but, man, so much to trudge through. (And [spoiler]killing Tara also annoyed me[/spoiler], given that it was a bit 'move the chess pieces', even if the reasons why made sense, such as [spoiler]actually having someone shot rather than eaten[/spoiler].)
Loved this show when it first aired, it did have some middling episode but most of it was great, almost brought the box set in hmv yesterday for £40
JBC I have a confession of my own to make. Whilst I was a big fan of Buffy I have never seen a single episode of that other 'cult' classic Twin peaks. I feel I'm missing out from what ive heard.
Thanks everyone! I definitely will put it on my watch list. Michael, i only watched Twin Peaks a few years ago. But please, watch it too. It's only two seasons long (or 'series' as we old folk used to call them).
I think I watched a couple of Buffy episodes and never bothered after that.
To be fair, I was well into my "serious" phase of TV Sci-Fi, where it was all about Babylon 5 so that's probably why I didn't continue with it.
Still, I never watched the X-Files either, so what do I know? :lol:
Babaylon 5 loved that show but would probably be very dated now
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 12 March, 2017, 07:07:14 PM
Thanks everyone! I definitely will put it on my watch list. Michael, i only watched Twin Peaks a few years ago. But please, watch it too. It's only two seasons long (or 'series' as we old folk used to call them).
In this country we still call them series (and I think they always called them seasons in the US). I've still not seen all of Twin Peaks (there'll probably be three series by the time I get around to it!)
Quote from: dweezil2 on 12 March, 2017, 08:19:10 PM
I think I watched a couple of Buffy episodes and never bothered after that.
To be fair, I was well into my "serious" phase of TV Sci-Fi, where it was all about Babylon 5 so that's probably why I didn't continue with it.
I've not seen Babylon 5 (except for one episode, written by Neil Gaiman and with Penn and Teller in - which I've seen twice, randomly, on TV).
Quote from: Colin YNWA on 12 March, 2017, 11:52:16 AM
I had similar thoughts on Buffy as you did. I have watched it and one episode in particular I remember being particularly good. There was these silent beasties who maybe had their mouths sown up or some such. Don't remember much about.
As has been mentioned elsewhere in this thread:
a) Whedon is well-regarded for writing dialogue between characters
b) the episode you refer to, Hush, doesn't feature any dialogue (for the most part)
Certainly a way to confound expectations!
I watched both Buffy and Twin Peaks well after they had ended. Buffy is great and not what I expected at all but its Twin Peaks that blew me away, well ahead of its time.
I really liked the Trio in Buffy and it goes to some dark places, Hush is probably one of my favourite episodes of anything ever.
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 12 March, 2017, 04:42:45 PM
Season six: some great moments, but, man, so much to trudge through. (And [spoiler]killing Tara also annoyed me[/spoiler], given that it was a bit 'move the chess pieces', even if the reasons why made sense, such as [spoiler]actually having someone shot rather than eaten[/spoiler].)
Season 6 is uneven alright, but the intertwining concepts were (at the time at least) hugely ambitious and largely successfully executed: [spoiler]sub in these nerdy wannabes as the 'big bad' and have everyone moan about how they are no Master/Angel/Mayor/Adam/Glory, then after their inevitable defeat pull the rug out completely and reveal the real threat; combine that with all the gang's other illusions and self-deceptions that are stripped away in rapid succession (Buffy's rescue from 'Hell'; the banal reality of gun violence intruding into cosy teen fantasy; self-deception in Xander and Anja's relationship; coercion in Willow and Tara's; abuse in Buffy and Spike's), [/spoiler]all pivoting around the greatest musical episode ever written. It's not a perfect Season, but it's very bravely different and there's just so much going on and it all meshes together: as a whole it's an extraordinary creation.
"All those secrets
You've been concealing
Say you're happy now,
Once more with feeling"
TV doesn't get much better than that.
I'd argue that Season 5 is generally weaker than 6, with the Glory and Ben stuff being a bit repetitive, but it also includes probably the most powerfully executed episode of any genre show in 'The Body'. In fact if there's been a truer scene on TV than Willow trying to pick an outfit, I haven't seen it