2000 AD Online Forum

Steve Yeowell is my faviuritist artist but he's not strong with covers though when he gets them spot on, like he does here, there's iconic simplicity in his images.

Dredd - Unless this is picked up again later I could have  happily skipped this tale. It's solid, well written fair but seems to have been going on longer than Origins. I think I'd have preferred single part tales.

Bob Bakers Bit, well, it's not my cup of tea. Well done, but not for me.

Sin Dex ends with a bang, a twist, and underlines how great this strip has been for...ooh, a couple of years now. Nice ongoing arc.

Red Seas - this is the business. I've enjoyed this arc, and Steve has resisted the urge to get too detailed with the robots, making them convincing in an alternate universe kind of way. Fascinating flashforward. Whens Jack Back? And what happened to the promised Newton and the Chevalier tale?

Button Man chunders along nicely. I almost hopr this isn't the last series after all. Give us an Adele solo series.

I cant help comparing the art in Mandroid to the original story. Like most people, that first outing was a near perfect combo of script and art, but this one...not so much.

I've always thought Critchlow's art fares better when paired up with crazier stories, ala Lobster Random. Still a solid piece, but nowhere near as gritty and atmospheric as its predecessor.

Sinister Dexter was disappointing. Either I'm a moron, or Abnett is a god damn tease. I had no idea it was going to end this week...the pacing certainly gave no indication. Guess Abnett is stretching it out for as many pay cheques as possible, which is what I've always thought he's been like on the series.

The rest of the prog was great.

Holy Hootin' Heck that is a nice cover.

"Bob Bakers Bit, well, it's not my cup of tea."

Bob 'Baker'? You got Dr. Who on the brain again, David?

Cal me Mr Thicky from Thicksville if you will, but the Bob Byrne story left me scratching my head big time.

Two decent cliffhangers for next week, one surprise for next year and a Giant Nazi Robot on the rampage. Good show all round, I say.

Unfortunately, as I'm never happier than when I'm complaining about something, I'd just like to take this opportunity to rant about the disgraceful state my Progs have been turning up in lately. I wouldn't mind so much if I was getting them on a Monday, but even that's become a rarity of late. I'm pretty close to canning my subscription and going back to buying it from an actual shop (shudder.) Postal cunts.

Nah, it just didn't make any sense.  Why wasn't he eaten alive?  They liked blood, right?  And they had teeth able to eat through stone.  So - he'd get eaten alive.

Bashing his own eye out was just for a disguise?

Or is he now a piranha-squid pod person?

Bob Byrne's tale made sense, kinda interesting in the sense that it wasn't a typical twist like a future shock, more a weird inversion of the story.

For along time now the progs have been awesome and this one is no different.

Superb cover. Yeowell at his best

One little quibble with mandroid. Why aren't the sentries taking out the soldiers with heavy guns outside a secret Justice storage facility. Otherwise I am enjoying this story

The Bob Byrne story is different. I think the time between incarceration and escape is huge and the ordeal has left a shell of a man thus making his escape inconcequential. Maybe.

I was never a fan of Sin/Dex to start with but since the run up to Malone I have warmed to this.

Red Seas us top of the pile for me and cant wait to see where this is going.

Button Man finally delivers. Along time coming with the end soon in sight. Can see a horrible twist to this story with Harry just topping her like he did to Gann at the end of book 3.




V

The Red Seas was the best thing in the prog! It's exciting stuff, and I'm also a Yeowell fan.
Top cover!

I'm still enjoying Dredd and liked SinDex and Button Man a lot.

I also failed to understand the Bob Byrne thing, but I liked the weirdness of it.

- Trout

A great prog for me spoiled by one bad, giant apple.

Cover - Really liked it.

Dredd - Class. The end was amazing, can't wait to see how Nate reacts and what's going to happen between him and Dredd. Thanks to excellent writing by Wagner, I really feel for Nate.

Byrne thingy - Ah, from one extreme to the other. Master of the silent my arse, what a mess! I read it and understood the first two thirds so I re-read it, really really slowly and it still didn't make sense. Please Tharg, stop putting small press in my prog! Dire, absolutely dire.

Sin Dex - Wehey, the roller coaster of a prog flies up again! I love what Abnett has done with Sin Dex over the last few years and then ending actually made me shout "Noooo!" Darth Vader Episode 3 stylee at my prog. Poor Dexter, poor Tracy, aw maaaan!

Red Seas - Bloody hell, Edington's good isn't he? How can a pirate romp have taken us here in such a relatively short space of time? Top!

Buttonman - Well, the inevitable team up happened but I still begrudgingly ended up enjoying the story. One question, that last panel, is it one of those new fangled car ignition buttons or is it actually someone with a remote detonator?

In all, a great prog which was really spoilt for me by one very poor strip. I don't know why it annoys me so much, I think it's 'cos I can just about cope with a poor future shock as they're the established training ground for new writers/artists. However, the whole approach to this Bob Byrne bloke just annoys me as, in my poor, ill-informed opinion, none of his strips have been any better than an entirely average future shock. Apologies to his supporters and to the guy himself if he reads our drivel but his work just leaves me cold. I wouldn't imagine it wasn't his decision to have a self named strip, but in my opinion hes doesn't yet have the chops to warrant it.

...i find the problem with stuff like Bobs is that the art is very 'scrappy' and therefore drags any interesting story ideas down with it, if this is the pinicle of small press offerings the rest must be really bad...

Despite getting utterly confused by the Twisted Tale (this time around), I love that this is in the prog, and want to counter calls to remove it.  So I have.

Blimey - I didn't enjoy much of this prog.

Bob Byrne: Add me to the list of Mister Thickies.  

It's all very well having stories brilliantly told without dialogue and captions but only if they are actually brilliantly told (and make sense to the majority of your readers).  

I'm not sure how many people like me just haven't "got" at least half of these tales without having someone explain them.

Hopefully, I'm in the minority because, despite the fact I don't get them and they are keeping potential new Future Shocks out of the prog, I do appluad the general air of mentalness that they contain.

DREDD - I'm flagging slightly with this one despite enjoying it - it does seem to be taking forever to get to the point.

SIN/DEX - I'd like to see a good 20 week run of this rather than little drawn out bits here and there. And then see it no more.  There's always been little things I like about it (Abnett's fabulous way with words, that great Malone thing, the art has been pretty high standard regardless of artist) but I've never really latched onto these two as characters and don't care about what happens to them or their buddies.

RED SEAS - I really liked the original Red Seas but as the series has broadened it's scope, so my interest has waned.  I'm not even sure who the hero is in this (I recognise the dog). Is the T2 style goodie Cap'n Jack or one of his crew who I never learned the names of?

Button Man:  Not a story I was particulary bothered to read with art that I think is too stylised for a gritty real world type tale.  Shame really because I do look both creators (absolutely love Frazer's art on Gutsville and Seven Soldiers).

:: Why aren't the sentries taking out the soldiers with heavy guns outside a secret Justice storage facility.

Yeah - that really grated. The whole scene was very empty and it was a shame that all that dialogue wasn't made against a backdrop of explosions and gunfire from the sentry Judges. Great last panel though - only in 2000 AD...

M@

That scene reminded me of the castle break-in from Top Secret, where one German guard, on hearing obvious noises of a struggle behind him (where another guard is being over-powered), just shrugs his shoulders, and walks on.

Maybe, with Justice Dept. being undermanned (well, the Chief Judge always says that) those are just cutout sentry Judges.

"Hopefully, I'm in the minority because, despite the fact I don't get them and they are keeping potential new Future Shocks out of the prog, I do appluad the general air of mentalness that they contain."

My problem with the Twisted Tales are that they seem really out of place in 2000ad. Somehow they'd seem more at home in the meg. On a personal level I don't particularly enjoy them but that's just a question of taste. Give the guy an extended run in the meg with it's direction of late that would seem more natural.

I don't care about any of that- I just want to somebody to explain it to me!

I'm glad I'm not alone in the Bob Byrne department. I was more or less getting it until the last page, and then it just became a case of "WTF?"

Having said that, I quite like the previous Tales. They do often require more than one read, for me anyway, but they've usually got a nicely dark edge to them, and I like the artwork.


Also, I agree with what others are saying about Sin/Dex; I'm really enjoying the way it's moving at the moment, but now that things seem to be in place, instead of having these little short stories here and there that only advance the larger story a smidgen, we need another Eurocrash style epic.

"I'm not even sure who the hero is in this...Is the T2 style goodie Cap'n Jack or one of his crew who I never learned the names of?"

Yep, it's one of the crew. Jim Vinegar, who died at the climax of Book four. His body was taken over by the intelligence that welcomed the crew to the centre of the earth.

The remaining crew, for future reference.

Swinging Billy, the Bosun, former lover of Mistress Meryll the Jolly Criple, star of the first Meanwhile side step. Burly bloke with a tatoo/permanant headress across his forehead.

Julius Ceaser, the young lad who improvised a brandy based flamethrower to ward off zombies in the first tale. Son of the reknowned Tenor Le Chevalier Noir - sidekick to Isaac Newton in the last short story.

Ginger Tom Vinegar - Father of Jim, wearer of an Uncle Albert style beard. Generally a bit grizzled. Was he right to be so protective of Jim in view of what happened to him, or would it have not happened if he'd let him stand on his own feet?

I do think there needs to be an intro page occasionally, perhaps before the next series? If they crop up every couple of stories they'd make handy additions to graphic novels, and could double up with a page of art in the star scan slot in the end of year progs.

Those sentry Judges must be from the same stock as those dumb fucks who stood outside Rico's prison in the film.
I'm enjoying the story and it's conclusion but these Judges nowadays are rubbish.
God knows how they managed to hold out against the Sovs before but then again that was the time when Judges were Judges not this Namby Pamby Shower of Shite. I give up I really do!

God knows how they managed to hold out against the Sovs before but then again that was the time when Judges were Judges not this Namby Pamby Shower of Shite.

Just thank your God that not all the East Meggers were built like Nikita Engels!

Also why would a SECRET justice facility have visible sentries in the first place?

I can see another Grennie fanbash coming along.



V

We've already mentioned the Apocalypse War.  His piss-take was fairly accurate, really.

brilliant prog!!!!!!!
the cover is good.

Judge Slaughterhouse: It was good twist!!! it will be one story i cant wait for next week!!! But I think that general will shooting kitty to stop her tell more, but Nate will likely kill rest of gang before shooting down, but please please please, let him be alive!!! again brilliant... but still want Kev Walker's style!

Bob: a clever plans, as the bloodsuckers suck bloods of him to make him look aged...

Sin/Dex: no shows of Sin and Dex on this prog, but the start Wars of the Moses. looks promises.

Red Seas: again, it not dolls!!! what the mind-fuck going on? hehe...

Buttonmen: I do like the way it gonna, but the fate next week? as the same fate to the man in last series?

again all brilliant, how can Prog 2008 better than that????? and for gosh sakes, no blood of satanus!!!

I read the Bob Byrne story first to see if I could understand it!

So he discovers the creatures like blood, he gets them to eat through the wall by putting his own blood onto it for ages, then escapes and... erm... bashes his own face in and jumps in the sea. The creatures then help him get to the mainland, either by swimming or floating. He doesn't drown and then sees a poster of how he used to look.

I liked all the previous ones but this one was pretty sloppy. The storytelling is all over the place, and it felt like it was shoehorned into being a silent story, when maybe it could have been better if it had words.

Sergio Aragones is a master of silent comics, but he doesn't limit himself by just doing them.

I am glad it's in the prog but it weren't great.

When the creatures drink blood, they swell up.  So when he bashes his face in, they attach themselves to it and to the other lacerations on his body, blow up, and act like little self-inflating life rafts.  This keeps him afloat and helps him survive the sea's rough tossing.

When he gets to land, he is so depleted of blood, and has been injured so badly, that he does not resemble his former self in any way, and thus gets away scot free - but at WHAT COST?

I thought it was great, myself.

Yeah that kind of makes sense. The last couple of pages should have made it a lot clearer.

It's the logic free prog this week, what the hell were those sentry judges doing?! It spoiled the episode a bit for me.

the bob byrne thing through me too not as obvious as some of the other offerings we've had 9maybe thats the point) i personally thought the african general and the apple tale was the best of the bunch so far.

I'm Back after a gap in my subbie, hopefully to be backfilled

Dredd - Surprised this is still going, a bit over long but still enjoyable

Bob Bakers Bit: could have been shorter I feel and a bit more mutant as it were.

Sin Dex: Stopped reading this ages ago when they jumped the gunshark for the thrid time.

Red Seas - looks interestring, Sorry i missed the start of this, looking forward to catching up

Button Man still going? not a lot of surprises here

overall a disappointing rejoiner for me, maybe its low thrill power levels at Chez-Huffy  

I wonder if it feels long simply because it's stretched over a number of weeks. I.e. I wonder if you'd feel the same way if you read Mandroid:Man of war (to take the Dredd strip for example) as a graphic novel or even if you got to read it in comic form devoted just to that strip (much like X-menm Spiderman or Batman) hence able to set aside more pages in one 'episode' so to  speak. As far as comic stories go, it actually hasn't been that long, it just seems to be cos we get it in 5-6 page chunks I think.

That's not a criticism of the comic though, it's innevitable with the multistrip format (I forget the correct term for this now) though that there are pros and cons (the pros being you get to read lots of stories and discover new characters if your a relative newbie like me. The cons, you get smaller episodes and things can sometimes drag.)

One thing I've noted int he Mandroid story though is that even when it's not all ACTION ACTION ACTION, it's been relevant. Unlike Greysuit and Defoe where you just seemed to get a lot of repeated stuff each episode and it took ages to move the story along.

I also read through the previous episodes of Mandroid recently and it didn't take long at all. I'd like to get hold of the early graphic novel too at some point.

Dredd: I've come to terms with my sentry issues- The last few pages of action are probably less than a minute of real time, and on the last page it looks like one of them is either looking through binoculars or raising a gun (second panel). They still let the van drive right up to the building like. Incompetent, yes. But this story has shown Justice Department in a harsh light, as Mandroid 1 showed the worst side of the Big Meg. We've had a man with no arms and legs escape from the cubes, a mole in the department, even Dredd feeling guilty over the botched attempt to take Nate down. And now these idiots. The last panel is sublime.

Twisted Tales: I've read it again since it was explained to me, and I did enjoy it a lot more. Not an ideal situation but I'll give Bob the benefit of the doubt because I really liked the 4 other stories of his I've read.

Sin Dex: Great ending to this series, and some the best art I've seen from Anthony Williams. This strip has improved so much in the last few years.

Red Seas: Giant Nazi Robot. "leave my dog alone!" Best thing in the prog.

Button Man: It's really grown on me after a shaky start, I've got a feeling the car probably isn't going to blow up though!

Dead Eyes looks rather nice.

Apologies to Simon Davis for giving too much thought to a comic ;)

Apologies to Simon Davis for giving too much thought to a comic ;)

Heh, that recent complaint about us judging comics in the Meg is ironic when you consider a lot of modern comics actually have a lot of depth to them isn't it? Particularly as many artists and writers are (rightfully) bemused at comics being seen as a 'kids medium' in the west. True, most 2000AD stories don't have that much depth from what I've seen so far (which isn't much, I only started this year.) That's not a criticism there's room for light fun... the comic version of an action film if you like, but that's the point.

Any genre that can be seen on film can be portrayed in comics. And analysis is a good thing (although to much can be bad.) Might even encourage writers to think about their work more and improve when it's needed. Again not a criticism of 2000AD, I've seen glimmers of depth here and there, even in this Mandroid tale where the villain isn't the all out evil guy they often are in some strips.

That's the beauty of an anthology comic, you can have all kinds of styles and tones in the same issue.
And if it's depth you want, 2000AD has had it's moments over the years. Oh, yes :)

True, most 2000AD stories don't have that much depth from what I've seen so far (which isn't much, I only started this year.)

Go and read The Complete Ballad of Halo Jones immediately, young man!

Go and read The Complete Ballad of Halo Jones immediately, young man!

You know, that's one book I've thought of getting, heard good things about it. Bit strapped for cash at the moment but when things change (or if I see it in the local library) I'll grab it.

Hope my comment didn't come across negative, I am still enjoying the comic overall. Definitely something nice to look forward to each Monday.

"That last panel, is it one of those new fangled car ignition buttons or is it actually someone with a remote detonator? "

I think it's actually the ignition key, if you look very closely.

Dredd:- The sentry Judges are shite.

Lets go through this step by step.
1. An unknown vehicle is approaching the facility, can't really tell at what speed but it's coming straight at the entrance.
2. As soon as this vehicle appeared the Judges should have trained their weapons onto it as they track it's approach. At the same time asking higher up for info on any vehicles due, etc and also putting out some kind of warning to the said vehicle that it has entered a Judicial area.
3. The vehicle manages to turn and stop right outside the entrance.
4. The Judges should have opened up as soon as it crossed a certain cut off line for unauthorised vehicles, if not then as soon as it stopped or at the very least as soon as the first heavily armed person jumps out the back. Remember weapons should have been trained on the vehicle on the whole of it's approach so that would have been the end of that.
5. There is no need to talk about the rest as they should have all been killed!

Here endeth the lesson!

Well, I'm more than averagely dim (or as Homer would say, i have a history of missing the point of these things), but i thought the Bob Byrne tale was ace - isn't this the point of the FS/TT slot, to give the old noggin a bit of a shake-up?   Something fresh, something clever, something different always has a place in my Prog.

As to the rest of the Prog, I wish that Button Man would never end, and I wish Mandroid would hurry it up a bit.  

Red Seas is interesting, and not entirely in an "oh no not more Edginton/Yeowell Giant Robots" way.

Sin-Dex keeps on keeping on, and that's fine by me.

And a terrific cover.

I quite like the TT strip, but I'm not sure it's quite right for the prog.

It seems a lot of space for a wordless strip and would be better suited to the Meg IMHO.

I really wish Simon Coleby had been able to do the whole of Mandroid 2, I've nothing against Carl Critchlow, but I just think Coleby would have been better on this for the duration.

- Steve

Dredd: i knows there loads about The shite sentry Judges.... but who needs them for next wednesday prog! the fury of Nate Slaughterhouse!

It looks like I'm in the minority in so far as when I read Dredd this week and noticed it was part 11 i thought 'Really? Time flies eh?' IMO it's been chugging along nicely...

As for Steve Yowell, I love his work, but I never much liked his giant robots, to me they look a bit spindly, a bit clunky (or considering Red Seas is sort of steampunk, not Clunky enough...)

Nicew enough prog though, I too was left wondering what the point of the last five minutes of my life had been by the Bobster...

 I say jolly good stuff this Buttonman business what ?


 A bit daft just getting in the car like that when it is very likely a bomb waiting to go off.Its more likely to be under it but still possibly in the engine but not as likely as the engine itself being more or less a solid block of metal that would absorb a lot of the blast.Its also possible that the car itself was marked by a Sniper as well to make sure that they didnt escape.

 A bit difficult really as it looks like an industrial estate  with no cover surrounding it.They could have stayed and picked more of them off but there is always the chance that more goons would be waiting on standby so to escape in the confusion is the best bet .

 The Assasins may have been overconfident and sloppy and not bothered with the car at all in which case they are fine.I would have tried the ignition without getting in the car myself as you always have those 2 or 3 seconds before the explosion to get clear.


 Bob Byrnes Twisted Tales doesnt work for me really.

 Red Seas: Not really engaging with this much as it is a bit surreal which means i should like it particularly the Occult angle.

 Sin Dex:Havent enjoyed this at all and it barely held my attention particularly the artwork.


Judge Dredd: A deception involving vincent and his granddaughter.I didnt expect that to happen.He walks away from the General.General Vincent says 'come back or so help me i,ll" ,what does he think he is going to do to stop him ?

 

 

I didn't think this story worked as well as the other Bob Byrne ones we've had.  But having said that, I'm glad it was in the prog and I look forward to the next one.

Only other thing I really noted is that Buttonman is getting on for 16 parts... blimey.

Regarding the Bob Byrne story, and in particular the explanation that:

When the creatures drink blood, they swell up. So when he bashes his face in, they attach themselves to it and to the other lacerations on his body, blow up, and act like little self-inflating life rafts. This keeps him afloat and helps him survive the sea's rough tossing.

OK, but they're swelling up with blood.  Even ignoring the fact that "blood is thicker than water", wouldn't they need to be swelling up with something less dense than water (eg. air), to improve the guy's bouyancy?  And, if they do, isn't he going to drown once they fart/burp the air out again?

Just askin', is all ...

Weeeell... I suppose they might not be swelling up with blood.  It could be some other kind of chemical reaction that's going on that's just caused by the blood.  Maybe.

Either way, it makes more sense now, but still too confusing for me in the great scheme of things.  I've liked the others, but this one was a bit off for me.

 I forgot to say before but wonderful cover art this week.

  The Dead Eyes teaser looks very good and the artwork very similar to buttonman in style.It looks apocalyptic with what look like floating Jellyfish.


 It looks beautiful and i would love to own it.

I think mine and Wod's FQ story made more sense. And the art was better.

It reminded me of Al Ewings small press piece, which I prefered to this one, but as I haven't read the others, I  still think its good on him, to have made the grade.
Also our artist was fantastic. Cheers FQ!

Ahem .

Dredd was goood. Erm. Fave stuff is Red Seas this week and I wanna know, who this Toten boy is! Has he turned up earlier?

That shit about T-towel's robots is obviously by a Tim Bizley fan.