Attempts at the sample scripts

[Paul_Ridgon]

Loving the style!

[Emperor]

Loving the style!

Welcome on board. I see you are taking a stab at a sample script too and looking at your work it appears we are in for a treat. Feel free to show us the work in progress and hopefully you should get some handy feedback. Good luck and don't forget the forum competitions (voting should start on the last one any minute now and a new one should start soon).

[Cthulouis]

Thanks again for the complements, everyone.

Glad you liked the whale getting chopped up, Iamthesystem, as I was really unsure that that panel had worked.

I'm afraid, Kerrin, that the last time I tried to put one lousy speech bubble onto some art in photo-shop I ended up getting very frustrated over my inability to master the text function on that programme, so I won't personally be lettering it up anytime soon.

[davethomson]

I have also had a crack at the Cycle of Violence sample script and periodically put up coloured pages in the art thread. I finally finished colouring it last week. In true artist fashion, I hate it already and reckon I could have done everything a lot better, especially after getting a lot of feedback on the lineart at Hi-Ex.

Nonetheless I shall post it in its entirety here:

[Jim_Campbell]

Nonetheless I shall post it in its entirety here:

There's a lot to like here, Dave! The storytelling is concise, the layouts are clear and your drawing is pretty solid. Occasionally, a figure doesn't convince (Pg6, Panel 2, for instance -- but this is a very odd exception) and your hands, bane of most artists' lives, could use a little work. On top of that, your use of lighting is frequently lovely, and the sense of atmosphere it adds goes a long way to making your work stand out.

As you know, we have some proper art droids round here, whose judgement you should give much more consideration to, but I don't think these samples are a million miles off being prog-worthy.

One thing, though, is the lettering (you knew I was going to mention that, right?) ... unless you're up to a professional standard, lettering your art samples distracts from the quality of the art. Even if you are up to professional standard, Tharg is unlikely to invite you to letter your own work, so leave the lettering and put the extra time into the artwork!

Cheers

Jim

[radiator]

On first glance, the second to last panel is confusing - the red splatter makes it look as if the bloke is being shot - overall there are too many of these photoshoppy flourishes throughout for my liking - in many cases they work against the artwork. Less is often more with computer colouring. Your colouring style is really nice but imo you need to dial it back a notch or two.

Have to agree with Jim that the lettering and logos detract from the artwork.

There are some really nice panels, but also some weaker ones. Maintaining consistency of quality is very hard to do - I know from experience. The last couple of pages seem rushed in comparison to the first few.

I think your buildings and city blocks need more work - they aren't very convincing.

I think your drawing style could benefit a from a bit of grit or texture - for example pg2 panel 2 - the statue looks a bit 'soft'. With a couple of exceptions the backgrounds lack detail and texture.

Sorry if that's too negative - overall it's really nice work and you are definitely on to something. There are a few standout panels that are really great. I'll probably post a page or two of my own here at some point and everyone can tear it to shreds!  

[The Legendary Shark]

As a poor artist, I can't really find anything negative to say about your artwork. I will, however, point out that there are mistakes in the lettering. I.e., from P3 alone there's:

The streets were everything he they'd be...
For four years he build a solid reputation...
and
They knew what kind of judge he was, the skills the brought to the job.

Apart from this (writer's) criticism, I see a lot to love here. Well done, it's gorgeous work. If you're looking for a writer to work with, allow me to pimp myself out here 

[Paul_Ridgon]

Hi Dave, I'm working on this script myself so feel free to crit the hell out of mine when I post it up.  Before I get started, I'll just say that I post the crits I would like to receive...

Overall, I think there's some pretty solid stuff here but there are minor niggles which really effect the overall quality.  I'll break it down through the pages.

Page 1

Panel 1, the anatomy on her right arm looks off.  I think it's the perspective on the upper arm, it looks really short.  I could be wrong, but it also looks like her arms aren't long enough, her hands look like they'd fall just below her waist when they should fall about 6 inches lower.  Otherwise, I like the angle and the debris is great.

Panel 2, the figure of the mother is too small and her right arm has moved from where it was established in panel 1, as has the broken picture frame.  Following the line of Dredd's arm, the Lawgiver should be rotated more towards us so that we can see more of the top. Also, it looks like you're slightly off model with the gun making a cross between a mk1 and a mk2.  It's a minor detail but the fan boys go nuts for this sort of thing. Klein snr's feet look a little too small but other than that there's some nice energy and movement.  Attention to detail on the apartment is really nice in this panel.

Panel 3, Klein jr doesn't look pissed enough.  He's supposed to be really angry and his expression here is very matter of fact, which is kinda cool but not what the script is asking for.

Panel 4, the composition of this panel is a little weak, I see what you're going for, but there's not enough dead space for the dialogue to breath.  Also, Klein snr looks a little too composed and almost caring when he should be looking wired.  I'm not sold on the character here.  Also, Klein jr's expression doesn't work due to the previous panel's set up.

Panel 5, Dredd's a great shot, but with Klein jr in the way, even he'd need to be looking at the target.  It's a minor niggle in an otherwise great panel, but I think it's an important thing.


Page 2

Panel 1, no complaints here.

Panel 2, looks a little too clean as was said before.  Also, with the fonts you've used, I'm thinking more Saturday morning cartoon than Mega City 1.  I'm not a big fan of photo's being used for backgrounds in comics and combined with the cloud mist and statue, it looks more like Olympus I'm afraid.

Panel 3, I love what you've got going on in the background with the other students, but Klein seems to be daydreaming rather than listening intently to the tutor, maybe it's the res of the shot but he doesn't seem to even be looking at the teacher, he just looks bored...  The anatomy on the teacher's arm is off too, the upper arm is disproportionate to the forearm.

Panel 4, I would not want to use that toilet, the seat is huouge!  The water is also too high.  It's otherwise a lovely panel, but a different angle might have been nice?

Panel 5, great panel, nice atmospheric, brooding shot.

Panel 6, funnily enough this mirrors the layout of my version almost exactly.  The only thing I would say is that the figures are a little stiff.  Klein is supposed to beating the snot out of these guys, so a two handed 'power strike' with the daystick would have been nice.


Page 3

Panel 1, the helm doesn't look right in this panel, I'm not sure why.  I can see that you've based it on Colin MacNeil's version from 'Cadet' but what worked with his style doesn't quite sit right with yours.  That might just be my own opinion though.

Panels 2 and 3, nothing bad here, both work very well indeed!

Panel 4, I think the biggest issue here is the perspective.  Individually, everything works brilliantly (my personal preference is for the Lawmaster to be more sleek and less boxy, but that all subjective).  The figures on the right appear to be on a ledge above the street level (love the Human Taxidermy sign, brilliant).  I think the main problem is that Klein and the bike are too small.  Should be a simple photoshop fix.  Again, your attention to detail on the background elements and debris is brilliant.

Panels 5 and 6, no complaints here except a minor point with the Lawgiver in panle 5, it looks like a movie version...


Page 4

Panel 1, same as with page 1 panel 1, the perspective on her left upper arm is off making it look too small.  Her hands are also a little wonky, particularly where the thumb joins the palm.  Other than that, very nice.

Panels 2-6, on the whole no major problems, the buildings look alittle flat and would benefit from a little texturing perhaps but other than that, good stuff!

Page 5

I really like this page.  My only real problem is panel 5, with the shot at this angle, Klein would need to be on his knees.  Nice echoing of page 1 in panel 6, but again, it would be nice to see the top of Dredd's gun.


Page 6

This is, by far, the weakest page and as was said earlier looks rushed.

Panels 1 and 3 are pretty good on the whole, just Dredd's helmet looks a little wonky in panel 3, the angles don't read right.

Panel 2, Klein's face has suddenly gone Warner Bros, there's almost a very distinct style change making him look very cartoony, the same can be said for Panel 4 too.  Also, in panel 4, the anatomy of his face is wrong, his right ear is too far back.  You've also not reflected the shoulder pads...

Panel 5, I can see what you were going for here with the red burst in the bg, but it does look like he's been shot when you couple it with the exression.  Also, the composition is a little flat, tilting the panel a little, removing the border, a slight up angle, could have made this really pop.

Panel 6, again, I'd prefer it if Dredd was looking at Klein but otherwise nice panel again.

Stylistically, I really like what you've got going on here.  Your attention to background detail is spot on.  I have an issue with your Lawgivers, I see what you were trying to do with showing the passage of time, but I would have preferred it if you'd used a mk1 for page 1 and then used a mk2 for the rest (although my version currently has mk2 throughout so I will now be changing that ).  I really like that you've given Klein the moles on his face so that you have the continuity over the years and you can tell it's the same character.

As has been said by others, the lettering is very weak, and I would like to see the pages without it.  Your story telling is pretty sharp, but then I know the script and have the dialogue on the pages too, so that may be altering my perseption somewhat.

Was it Tharg you showed this to at Hi-Ex?  What was the overall feedback you received?  My guess would be that it was pretty positive...

Anyway, I've rambled on enough, time to let someone else have a go

[davethomson]

Thanks for the crits Jim, Shark, Rad and Phantom!

Don't worry about being negative in your crits, that's what I like. I admit that this six pager was done very fast, it was drawn and inked in 7 days and it does show as it reaches the end. There is a lot I liked about this but and a lot I felt I could have done better which is echoed in the fantastic crits you chaps have given me.

I hope to be getting more strips done soon, including a futureshock styled script for my folio at Bristol which I will also post up on the Common sometime soon and I would be very grateful if you guys to tear it to shreds for me.

As for my lettering, I know it is awful but I shall learn it. For submitting it to anyone I would probably not include it but I wanted to show it here to get some feedback on it. I will be poring over your guide for my next attempt Jim as it is brilliant!

I got some good feedback at Hi-Ex though there were not many editors to show it to. The artists there gave me some really good crits though due to it being a convention they didn't really have the time to pick it apart like you chaps.

[Paul_Ridgon]

Here's a little sneaky peak from page 1 of Cycle of Violence.  You can probably tell it's panel 3 and I'm happy with how it's turned out.  This is my first real go at seriously working exclusively digitally.  More to come over the weekend hopefully...

[nev]

Ooh la la, very beautiful tonal work.

[Paul_Ridgon]

Okay, I've given crits and now it's time to get some.  Here's the WIP for page one of Cycle of Violence.  With the exception of a little tidying up of the inks in panel 4 (and obviously Dredd in panel 5) the page is almost complete.  I tried to go for more of a crack/ meth house when designing the apartment (I've been watching a lot of Breaking Bad lately) and wanted to go for more squalor than has been previously shown.  One of the things I've noticed with other versions of this script that have been posted is that mum and dad Klein (and the apartment to a degree) don't look that bad.  The inference I got from the script is that dad is a junkie and mum hooks to provide him with a fix and this is what I was trying to get across.

Anyway, enough explanation, rip me a new one!

[Dunk!]

Well what instantly strikes me, in comparison to the strip posted above, is where does the title banner fit in the opening panels?

[Paul_Ridgon]

Well what instantly strikes me, in comparison to the strip posted above, is where does the title banner fit in the opening panels?

Fair point well made, but there's ample space in the last panel for title and credits...  In all honesty, while it wasn't that I didn't think about it, as there's no specific format that says the title and credits have to go in the first panel, I figured I'd have them fit in where there was room (which just happens to be the last, as yet incomplete,panel). 

The panel choices (particularly panel 2) differ slightly from what is asked for in the script because I wanted to build the tension more in this page, almost going for a spaghetti western stand off feeling, culminating in the money shot in panel 5.  That is why I went for a low angle in panel 2 rather than the scripted high angle as it shows (I feel) more threat.  High shots generally detach the viewer from the action and I really want to immerse them in it.

[pauljholden]

(The following is all IMHO - so, you know... ymmv)

I'm struck by a couple of things: lack of decent amount of room for panels/dialogue - you really need to leave about a quarter of the panel as breathing space for text - this is to give the letterer options and the lack of decent establishing shot - putting dredd, the woman, the kid et all in context.

Panel 1 will require very careful placement for the caption to not overlap the figure.

Panel 2 - if the captions go to the top left, will sit on top of Dredd's leg - reducing an already vague leg shape into a mostly meaningless green lump - so the captions will have to go to the top right - not always the best location for captions. (and I'm assuming that's Dredd's leg, could be another Judge? Who knows...) Also: the Room looks grotty - but is it a room? an underground bunker? a massive lift? Who knows - there's not enough there to sell it as anything other than 'box shaped location with graffiti'.


Panel 3 - captions/dialogue will have to overlap the face - or fall off panel and the stark black background, has the effect of making this look like it might be a flashback.

Panel 4 - has a reasonable space for text, though still feels very cramped owing to the cropping around the child's face.


Story telling involves clarity - you need to make sure all of the reader understands everything that's happening very quickly - unless you're deliberately trying to keep stuff vague / confusing (the classic example is the scene where you expect the swat team to open buffalo bill's door while Jodie Foster is going to some innocent persons door in Hannibal - it's a great example of confusing the viewer with story telling)

BTW: If the script calls for a specific angle, then do it - figure out another way to build the tension you want - don't forget, Tharg is going to see this page A LOT - yours will stand out, but it'll be for the wrong reason. (Also: if you manage to catch a break, and get a gig and you become the artist who disregards scripts - writers won't want to work with you - and a lot of work comes via writer recommendations)

(And, to prove it's not all bad: that's some pretty impressive figure drawing on panel 1)
-pj