Main Menu

Watchmen prequels now official and announced

Started by Colin YNWA, 01 February, 2012, 12:59:50 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Alski

So this is an instance where we can download them illegally and stick two fingers up at DC?
"Cool Stuff You Will Like"

Music, Comics, Books, Video Games, TV and Film reviews/articles.

http://cool-stuff-you-will-like.blogspot.co.uk/

Professor Bear

Quote from: TordelBack on 01 February, 2012, 06:33:46 PM
'S no skin off my nose, since I won't be buying them, but oh Dan DiDio:

"After 25 years, the Watchmen are classic characters whose time has come for new stories to be told. [Emphasis mine]"

Says it all really - there are no such characters in the book. He's thinking of the film.

Oh man, internet fans can be shrill when Dan The Man comes up in conversation, but you seriously couldn't make the guy up if you sat down and tried.  I personally liked how he referred to Static as "Static Shock" (the former is the character, the latter is the name of the cartoon show based on the former) in his official response to (Static creator) Dwayne McDuffie's death.  I suppose you could say it's an easy mistake to make - if you weren't
1) a comics publisher
2) commenting on the death of the creator at the time of the gaffe, and
3) someone who went through a great deal of legal and creator-wrangling to strip-mine a beloved underdog comics line and bury forever fan-favorite characters just to acquire the one character whose name you apparently don't even know.  What makes it even more awesome is John Rozum's revelation that after going to all this trouble, Didio put a man in charge of writing the comic that not only hadn't written comics before, but hadn't read a single issue of the original comics run, or even seen an episode of the cartoon show, and the whole enterprise was for no other purpose than getting a minority character on the roster of Teen Titans, a book no-one buys or cares about, not even Dan Didio, but which once had a cartoon show based on it that was actually based on Young Justice, a comic book which now has a cartoon based on it which is actually based on Teen Titans.

I wish I had the balls to make all my decisions with a dartboard and a javelin.  Common sense is getting me nowhere.

PreacherCain

Quote from: Alski on 01 February, 2012, 08:58:54 PM
So this is an instance where we can download them illegally and stick two fingers up at DC?

That's what I'll be doing. Fuck 'em.

Colin YNWA

Quote from: ChrisDenton on 01 February, 2012, 08:55:08 PM
DC and Marvel pretty much have the US Comics market sewn up, and they operate like particularly unenlightened Victorian industrialists. Consequently few creative people in comics makes any money from, or even own the rights to their work. There are allegedly alternatives, but virtually all of them require creators to regard the minimum wage as some distant dream of unimaginable wealth.

Therefore there really is nowhere for talented would-be comic creators to go, and won't be until DC and/or Marvel are overthrown or mend their ways. Neither will happen whilst comic buyers unaccountably support titles such as Before Watchmen.

I say all of this as a complete outsider, so much may be wrong. But from that lowly vantage point.

I'd suggest some of the old entry points are still there. We type on one of the boards belonging to one such place (entry to the US market that is getting into the level of 2000ad is another thing altogether).

There are so many more new avenues as well. As ever only the very best will make it but that's ever been the case? Things like 'Kickstarter', self publishing is more available (?), the small press market more visible (?), web publishing readily available. A hundred channels, none of which will be a sure fire way to success, all of which with the right talent might be the door way though?

Buying the 36 (someone elses head count may well be wrong?) issues of a property one of the big two own is no more killing opportunity than buying 36 Spider-man comics, or Batman comics by that argument as I (mis?)understand it.

SmallBlueThing

We've just had a friend round, and as she was leaving she asked me what I thought of all this Watchmen kerfuff. She and her boyfriend are huge admirers of the original, and she'd been following the explosion of horror on Twitter all day, and wanted to see if I felt the same as her. My answer of "I don't really care, and I'll probably buy the Rorschach one, but that's it" summed up how her and her other half felt too. We did have a jolly good laugh at Alan Moore's expense though- with a not-altogether-fair appraisal of his career that basically went "Skizz/ ET, Captain Britain- old character, Marvel Man- old character, Swamp Thing- old character, V For Vendetta- Guy Fawkes, Watchmen- Charlton, LoEG- old characters, From Hell- other people's works, Lost Girls- old characters, Neonomicon- Lovecraft. When is he going to do something new?" but like I say, that's not altogether fair.

Not being a fan of the original series (but I liked the movie), this news makes me think this: OF COURSE DC should do it, and they should have done it years ago. Does the following 14000 pages of Amazing Spider-Man diminish the seminal nature of the original short story in Amazing fantasy #15? No, of course not. Like I say, I'm only really interested in Rorschach, and I bet that's true of most of the potential audience. I bet it's him that gets the monthly title off the back of this.

SBT
.

NorthVox

It just doesn't make sense to me. I mean there's millions of people the world over who would love to see their comics published by DC, granted most of them are probably shite, but with that many hopefuls they're bound to come across something good. Some new franchises and new characters might actually lift the industry to new heights. However, like in many other mediums, they seem set to just try and re-tell and rehash stuff that worked over two decades ago. I mean it's fine if an ongoing series has stayed strong and has developed a fanbase, and there's still interest in it, but is the entertainment industry, and comics especially, really that stuck in finding new ideas? Do they need to risk destroying a great story for a few extra pennies?

Bah, I'm ranting.

Colin YNWA

Quote from: SmallBlueThing on 01 February, 2012, 09:12:52 PM
I bet it's him that gets the monthly title off the back of this.

HA! That really would make the internet explode!

Colin YNWA

Quote from: NorthVox on 01 February, 2012, 09:26:16 PM
It just doesn't make sense to me. I mean there's millions of people the world over who would love to see their comics published by DC, granted most of them are probably shite, but with that many hopefuls they're bound to come across something good. Some new franchises and new characters might actually lift the industry to new heights.

The two aren't mutually exclusive though, not that I'm saying DC does do this much I should point out, just saying they aren't mutually exclusive. There is an argument that mining one 12 comic series, created by a work for hire team, based on some characters from a different company they'd purchased, for all the many, many dollars its worth, they might have more revenue to explore new ventures? Whether they do this is open to debate (and one that might well lose) however it could be the case?

Either way, right or wrong, mining the Watchmen is not whats preventing DC, or any other company, unearthing new talent, or finding new stories. It might be strengthening the market as a whole?

JamesC

I'm a huge fan of Alan Moore and I can totally see his point of view - I think he's still smarting from the fact that he and Dave Gibbons truly thought that the rights to Watchmen would revert to them shortly after publication.
The trouble is, I really want to read these comics! I'm really looking forward to seeing what these new creative teams can do with the characters.

I think I will probably end up buying the comics and unfortunately I'll probably have a pang of guilt about it - but all i want to do is read good comics. It's such a shame that all this corporate bastardry has soured the milk.

As for the bigger picture of creators rights etc - I think things are improving in the industry and they'll continue to improve.
Alan Moore will surely go down in history as an important advocate of creator rights and as a positive catalyst for change in the industry.
Watchmen has its place in history secured however dubious the virtues of any spin offs may be.   

Buttonman

I probably won't be buying unless the word is fantastic but have no issue with DC. It all comes down to the contract that was signed - DC can exploit the characters all they want because they can. Moore can moan but can do nothing about it because he can't. The deal was good enough to sign at the time, the fact he's made a big name for himself since doesn't affect what he agreed to then.

I wonder if he's still entitled to a royalty though and if so whether that goes to Gibbons like the movie stuff.

Jimmy Baker's Assistant

Quote from: Alski on 01 February, 2012, 08:58:54 PM
So this is an instance where we can download them illegally and stick two fingers up at DC?

Interesting moral dilemma.

TordelBack

I do agree that Moore signed contracts and that's that, and also that as a result he has no say in the whole prequel thing - it's just an idea that I have absolutely no interest in or respect for. 

However, it's always worth remembering that when Moore and Gibbons signed the contracts for Watchmen they were expecting the rights to revert to them after relatively few years, once the collection went out of print.  There had never been a comics collection that had been continuously in print for a quarter of a century, or even 5 years, at that point, and no reason to imagine there would be.  The comics world changed completely with Watchmen, DKR and Year One, and the contract Moore signed belonged to the old one - and to rub the salt in, it was his work that was one of the main agents of change.  I'd be pissed off too. 

PreacherCain

The contract clearly isn't as clear-cut as some pro-DC'ers like to insist. If it was, DC would have done this long ago and not asked Moore for permission and to "sign off" on prequels/sequels in return for the rights of the original being returned to him.

As has been mentioned a few times, Moore has cause here to bring DC to court. DC knows this too, hence trying to buy him off so they can avoid any legal squabbles. I very much doubt that Moore has the means of taking on the behemoth of Warner Bros. legal department (he has, after all, been subject to their dirty tricks in the past re: LOEG) but DC knew that of all people he'd be contentious enough to try. People seem to think this was a cut-and-dry contract: it wasn't. Just look at DC's behaviour in regards to this in the past.

The thing I find saddest about this is that the creators working on these prequels, I'm sure, are getting paid handsomely and will be treated well, working with nice, fair contracts. Do you know why? Because people like Moore fought for that. People like Moore walked away from lots of money and job security to fight for the kind of creator rights these guys are now enjoying. The very least these creators could do is respect his wishes in this matter.


Jimmy Baker's Assistant

Quote from: Colin_YNWA on 01 February, 2012, 09:11:24 PM
I say all of this as a complete outsider, so much may be wrong. But from that lowly vantage point.

I'd suggest some of the old entry points are still there. We type on one of the boards belonging to one such place (entry to the US market that is getting into the level of 2000ad is another thing altogether).

There are so many more new avenues as well. As ever only the very best will make it but that's ever been the case? Things like 'Kickstarter', self publishing is more available (?), the small press market more visible (?), web publishing readily available. A hundred channels, none of which will be a sure fire way to success, all of which with the right talent might be the door way though?

Buying the 36 (someone elses head count may well be wrong?) issues of a property one of the big two own is no more killing opportunity than buying 36 Spider-man comics, or Batman comics by that argument as I (mis?)understand it.

Kickstarter is a joke and self-publishing is obviously fine as a hobby, but clearly not much use if you're trying to make your living in comics. I don't think you realise quite the extent to which comic creators are forced to chase work from these corporate supervillains simply because they are the only people who pay actual wages.

Oh, and I didn't say anything about the Batman/Superman/Spiderman franchises. Those are obviously house characters and, although, in most cases their creators got screwed too, I think house characters have an important part to play in mainstream comics.

The situation that is more worrying is that if you do manage to defy the system to the extent you do actually do something that is a proper, authentic work of art that reaches a sizeable audience, the system will then screw you totally.

I don't really see why anyone who was really serious about writing or drawing as a career would want to work in an industry where your choice is either utter poverty or sell out and work on crap.

Colin YNWA

Quote from: ChrisDenton on 01 February, 2012, 10:33:11 PM

Oh, and I didn't say anything about the Batman/Superman/Spiderman franchises. Those are obviously house characters and, although, in most cases their creators got screwed too, I think house characters have an important part to play in mainstream comics...


No quite right, I mentioned them in an attempt to understand the point you made about ???? destroying any desire for new creators to enter the industry. I concluded from your second post, but thought I should check, that you were saying that buying from DC (and Marvel) was what was doing this

QuoteDC and Marvel pretty much have the US Comics market sewn up, and they operate like particularly unenlightened Victorian industrialists. Consequently few creative people in comics makes any money from, or even own the rights to their work.

You now seem to imply that's not what you mean and its specifically Watchmen? If so again I'm curious as to why?

QuoteI don't really see why anyone who was really serious about writing or drawing as a career would want to work in an industry where your choice is either utter poverty or sell out and work on crap.

and yet they seem to. As fair as I can see, due to the channels now available, whatever your opinion of them, in far greater numbers?