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Spoilers => Prog => Topic started by: McNulty on 25 November, 2017, 06:54:51 PM

Title: Prog 2059 - Fiends in High Places
Post by: McNulty on 25 November, 2017, 06:54:51 PM
Dredd: Dredd shows that he is still the man to be reckoned with as even with his hands tied behind his back, he can still be a force to be reckoned with.

Slaine: Pat Mills really, really doesn't like Christianity.

Sin/Dex: I like where the story is going at the moment. I've waited a while to see some kind of resolution for this thread.

3riller: Started well last week but started to wane a bit. Hopefully it will end strongly.

Absalom: Another episode that juxtapositions two separate stories constantly throughout. I'm not really happy with what the "good guys" did with those kittens though...

all in all a better than average prog with Slaine and 3riller being the low points.
Title: Re: Prog 2059 - Fiends in High Places
Post by: Tjm86 on 25 November, 2017, 08:17:16 PM
The comment that the forum is quiet at the moment is incredibly accurate.  By now there would normally have been a dozen comments about this week's prog.   :-\

Mills' anti-Christian rhetoric has become so old hat that it is easy to tune it out.  This has to be his greatest weakness as a writer now, he cannot let his prejudices lie low.  Who commented on the cognitive dissonance in his attitude towards editorial oversight recently in his own recollections?  This here is clear evidence of that.  Re-reading the Belardinelli Knucker run you can see a greater quality to his writing when he is held in check a little.

Not completely sure where 3riller is going.  Personally I find them hard to work with.  I think Comics The Gathering made a valid point with regards to these; overlong future shocks that sometimes outstay there welcome.  Possibly the resolution next prog will disabuse me of that but at the moment this is not looking like a strong case for the defence of these.

Only two more progs left this year.  My word, where has the year gone?

Title: Re: Prog 2059 - Fiends in High Places
Post by: Colin YNWA on 25 November, 2017, 09:55:08 PM
Well my excuse is I've had a busy day and after reading the Prog earlier used a free evening to watch a Twin Peaks episode before catching up on my favourite interweb place. Based purely on Prog 2058 we can safely say this place ain't quiet cos of the quality of the Prog, this one was an absolute rip snorter.

Rip snorter being a fine way to describe the Dredd episode as well. Just note perfect action from JD, I mean surfing on a dogs corpse - GO JOE! The story moved along very nicely, very nicely indeed. Particularly liked Zima out Dredding Dredd with her save. Glorious stuff and love where this is going if solicitations are to be believed.

This is followed by one of Slaine's good episodes. The comment below is very true Uncle Pat is barely able to contain his personal beliefs and far vomits them with reguritated glee. Maybe its my agreement with him on this one, maybe its the way it seems to fit with Slaine's ongoing themes, maybe it was just the glory with which they were epically presented... whatever I really enjoyed this episode. Sure my sense that this has all been sillly nonsense will return next week as this has been a particularly up and down story.

Oh but then, then we get to the thrill of the week as Sinister Dexter plays an absolute blinder. This set of stories has been superb (I won't say sees this series back on top form as I don't really hold that S&D has ever really dipped in any significent way) once again. The run of short stories has settled the current status quo and the weeks episode sets up where we are going quite wonderfully. This feels like it should have been in the X-Mas bumper Prog, it reads like so many tales in these issues before either wrapping up or setting up and this episode uses Billi quite fantastically to hang tension in the air and have me hackering for this to be back asap.

Some nice art from Paul Marshal (though the Mighty Yeowell needs to be made a permanent fixture for me) with lovingly placed frames from colleagues. I was particularly fond of the way he returned the psychologist chap from Ramone's origin story with a panel straight from Andy Clarke's art draw. FANTASTIC!

As was the 3riller this week. As it remembered we needed tension and conflicit in the tale and with a nice little twist gave us just what the first part was missing.

Finally Absalom continues to be great.

All in all an almost faultless Prog.
Title: Re: Prog 2059 - Fiends in High Places
Post by: Eamonn Clarke on 25 November, 2017, 11:04:46 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/s8OcJ3E.jpg)
Title: Re: Prog 2059 - Fiends in High Places
Post by: Jacqusie on 26 November, 2017, 12:03:34 AM
Wonderful cover and Absalom from Tiernen Trevallion, this is the jewel in the slightly wonky and pock-marked crown of 2000ad.

As if Slaine needs more shouting, ESPECIALLY IN CAPITAL LETTERS!?  and JaGgaDey SpeEcH BAlLoOns... like a dissaffected youth trying to get their point accross on twitter, this is just awful now, you have to turn your head away from it.

It was turgid and stodgy before, but the bloated corpse of this saga is floating in the fish pond smelling mighty high and all the SHOUTING won't make it any prettier or cool...

I'm just sad for this story really, it's lost all it's charm that it once had, there's no laughter in the woods, no joy, just an awful decaying breakdown of dialogue which means for me, Slaine has indeed finally gone from us now...

I do hope that 2018 see's the return of Strontium Dog, after all we went through with the ressurection (which I still find tasting rather odd) of Johnny Alpha, was it really worth the bother if the stories have dried up?

Hey ho at least Absalom has one more book left to go!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Prog 2059 - Fiends in High Places
Post by: I, Cosh on 26 November, 2017, 12:11:15 AM
So that's Tiernen sown up the top 2 places in the cover of the year show? Jaw-dropping stuff which makes the restricted palette seem a bonus.
Title: Re: Prog 2059 - Fiends in High Places
Post by: Tiplodocus on 26 November, 2017, 12:43:56 PM
There are so many ugly things in that cover that it confuses me as to how it looks so brilliant and beautiful!
Title: Re: Prog 2059 - Fiends in High Places
Post by: Prodigal2 on 27 November, 2017, 10:42:41 AM
I'm genuinely not against an anti-faith critique by anyone as I would readily agree that the religious realm of things needs serious scrutiny but Pat's approach in Slaine leaves me cold. I hope that doesn't qualify me for today's Mary Whitehouse award. I just feel I am being shouted at continually in an effort to convey stuff I already know.

Seriously Pat I know all that stuff that for some reason never finds its way into Songs of Praise.

Here endeth the moan.

Title: Re: Prog 2059 - Fiends in High Places
Post by: IndigoPrime on 27 November, 2017, 10:58:11 AM
Sláine has basically become that idiot online who writes in ALL CAPS BECAUSE THAT WILL GET THE POINT ACROSS. It's just turgid and awful. I really loved that first Brutania book. It felt like a fresh start. But this latest one has had no pace, no energy and no fire. Not even the art can save it. Sláine's just become... boring.

As for the rest, Absalom blazes towards a conclusion, Sin/Dex attempts to wrench itself from continuity hell in a reasonably interesting way, a Thriller does nothing for me, and Dredd ensures 2000 AD will forever be haunted by furious animal rights activists. Possibly.

So: one great, one good, one fine, one mediocre, and one that I wish would somehow become the quality strip it once was.
Title: Re: Prog 2059 - Fiends in High Places
Post by: CalHab on 27 November, 2017, 12:55:50 PM
Just to buck the trend, I am enjoying the 3riller. It's a classic 2000AD blend-two-genres thing, and it has enough about it to keep me interested in the conclusion. [spoiler]The betrayal was obvious, though. I assume that there will be some kind of a twist in the final part to show it was anticipated.[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Prog 2059 - Fiends in High Places
Post by: IndigoPrime on 27 November, 2017, 01:24:25 PM
To be fair on the 3riller, the format often doesn't work for me. They tend to read a lot better in one go, though. I enjoyed the little floppy that compiled a bunch of them.
Title: Re: Prog 2059 - Fiends in High Places
Post by: Dandontdare on 27 November, 2017, 03:51:48 PM
I'm enjoying the 3riller but I think there are too many characters for a short tale, would be better with a slimmed down cast.

I've seen Dredd do some crazy stuff - overthrow a tyrant days after being shot through the head, jump off a block before radioing an H wagon to catch him , but I never thought I'd see him [spoiler]surf a dead dog down a river of molten metal[/spoiler] - kudos!

Abdoloms great, Slaine plods on and I'm liking this new era for sin/dex
Title: Re: Prog 2059 - Fiends in High Places
Post by: Proudhuff on 28 November, 2017, 10:05:47 AM
Another cracking cover from TT, made me think of Spring Heeled Jack but the GRennie Droid pulls it out of the bag again with a loverly bit of story telling, and foreshadowing of who telling tales on Auld Harry?
Artwork and characters working hand in hand, top story in the Prog...

and the Dredd close behind, the molten dog sledge and kitten sacrifice getting us primed for the big Festive issue!

I think everything that could be said about Slaine has been and SinDex was a skippyskip for me.

Title: Re: Prog 2059 - Fiends in High Places
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 28 November, 2017, 10:31:58 AM
Quote from: Proudhuff on 28 November, 2017, 10:05:47 AM
Another cracking cover from TT, made me think of Spring Heeled Jack but the GRennie Droid pulls it out of the bag again with a loverly bit of story telling...

SHJ already turned up in the second series, o' course...
Title: Re: Prog 2059 - Fiends in High Places
Post by: Proudhuff on 28 November, 2017, 01:20:42 PM
Doh!  :-[
Title: Re: Prog 2059 - Fiends in High Places
Post by: Magnetica on 28 November, 2017, 01:21:11 PM
Quote from: Proudhuff on 28 November, 2017, 10:05:47 AM
SinDex was a skippyskip for me.

That means you are missing out in my opinion. I thought it was a cracking episode, both as self contained episode (which gives the casual reader all they need to know to follow it) and as part of the ongoing narrative, setting up an interesting new direction.

Plus it had cracking art - from all three artists.

Title: Re: Prog 2059 - Fiends in High Places
Post by: Proudhuff on 28 November, 2017, 01:27:02 PM
I know, its like IP, I should like it, I should read it, but sneck it I just CBA.
its my fault I know, but I see acres of Basil and balloons and my brain skips like a CD from a sandpit.
Title: Re: Prog 2059 - Fiends in High Places
Post by: TordelBack on 28 November, 2017, 01:51:40 PM
Quote from: Proudhuff on 28 November, 2017, 01:27:02 PM...a CD from a sandpit...

Is this the musical equivalent of hedgeporn?  Is it how you explain the Ed Sheeran discography you keep under your mattress?
Title: Re: Prog 2059 - Fiends in High Places
Post by: Magnetica on 28 November, 2017, 02:21:36 PM
I'm with you on IP, but that's because I can't follow it.

Whereas SinDex has got to be one of the easiest things in the Prog to follow.

But if you don't like it, then fair enough.
Title: Re: Prog 2059 - Fiends in High Places
Post by: CalHab on 28 November, 2017, 02:51:30 PM
Indigo Prime is beautiful but impossible to follow on a weekly basis. There have been a few recent stories like that (The Order springs to mind). They might read wonderfully collected in a trade, but I read them in the prog.
Title: Re: Prog 2059 - Fiends in High Places
Post by: TordelBack on 28 November, 2017, 03:00:25 PM
Quote from: CalHab on 28 November, 2017, 02:51:30 PM
Indigo Prime is beautiful but impossible to follow on a weekly basis. There have been a few recent stories like that (The Order springs to mind). They might read wonderfully collected in a trade, but I read them in the prog.

I shouldn't say this, since I'm Officially Reserving Judgement on post-Smith IP until the current stint wraps up, but a recent re-read showed that everything was very clearly set out, apart from the intentional mysteries. 
Title: Re: Prog 2059 - Fiends in High Places
Post by: ZenArcade on 28 November, 2017, 04:08:48 PM
Kinda with the Tordeldude on the IP strip.  Sin Dex  >:( >:( >:( Z
Title: Re: Prog 2059 - Fiends in High Places
Post by: ZenArcade on 28 November, 2017, 04:14:59 PM
Sniff, sob. I was reading over old John Smith writing last night:

Just look at him! there he stands,
With his nasty hair and hands.
See! his nails are never cut;
They are grimed as black as soot;
And the sloven, I declare,
Never once has combed his hair;
Anything to me is sweeter
Than to see Shock-headed Peter.

Some of his sources and the manipulation of them are simply beyond my means to express.  Z
Title: Re: Prog 2059 - Fiends in High Places
Post by: Colin YNWA on 28 November, 2017, 07:54:24 PM
Quote from: Proudhuff on 28 November, 2017, 10:05:47 AM
...and SinDex was a skippyskip for me.

I am so mad at you right now... just so mad...

... no just don't say anything...

...look no just stop it. Don't touch me, don't even look at me...

... just so mad at you...
Title: Re: Prog 2059 - Fiends in High Places
Post by: norton canes on 30 November, 2017, 10:56:17 AM
Cover: Can we have an Absalom cover every week please? Even when the strip isn't in the comic?

Dredd: A solid story which just erred on the farcical side with the dog-surfing moment (will 'surf the dog' replace 'jump the shark' as a phrase that marks the moment something turned bad?). The art is OK, PJ Holden gives us great dynamic poses but the wolf looked a bit slapdash this week.

Slaine: WHAT THE FUCK IS UP WITH THOSE SPEECH BUBBLES? Apart from that I got a sort of perverse pleasure from experiencing Pat's histrionic diatribe (the idea of churches as places made of bones is a neat one) but... unless there's a monumental turn-around next week let's face it, Slaine has surfed the dog. 

SinDex: Lovely tie-in to the story that kicked off the strip's return earlier this year. Nice to see the strip's serious side. Missing it already!

3riller: To be honest I knew that Absalom was just around the corner so I sort of half skipped this one again, sorry, will catch up next week before the conclusion, promise promise

(Just on the subject of 3rillers generally I will add that I really enjoyed the one earlier this year about the huge demon-possessed robot, so I hope they stick with the format.)

Absalom: Top Thrill again, this has hit a rich vein of form and is just a brilliant read.

Pop quiz! Is this the latest a scene replicated on the cover has cropped up in the comic? It's practically the last frame of the last strip. 
Title: Re: Prog 2059 - Fiends in High Places
Post by: dweezil2 on 30 November, 2017, 12:59:21 PM
Conversely, I've really enjoyed the last few weeks of Slaine, although uncle Pat's views chiming with my own probably have a lot to do with it and Davis' art just gets better.

The only other story I've read so far is Dredd-which continues to rattle along in its action movie mode.
It's hardly deep stuff, but is fun (which is enough sometimes) and the art continues to impress.
Title: Re: Prog 2059 - Fiends in High Places
Post by: Tiplodocus on 02 December, 2017, 09:13:11 AM
Cover to cover enjoyment from me.

Dredd continues to rattle thrillingly along at a fair clip. Will there be any long term fall out from it though? Is it sitting up another stealth epic? I'd like to think so.

And Slaine has converted me back these past weeks. Art is grand and it's a perfectly valid rant against the obscenity of cathedrals being built while people lived in abject poverty. And ties in with theme and plot.

3hriller is actually engaging me too. More so than others in the same stable.

But tied first place are Sin/Dex and Absolom. Both packing in lots of forward motion while remembering things past.
Title: Re: Prog 2059 - Fiends in High Places
Post by: Robin Low on 02 December, 2017, 06:57:26 PM
Quote from: Tiplodocus on 02 December, 2017, 09:13:11 AM...it's a perfectly valid rant against the obscenity of cathedrals being built while people lived in abject poverty...

Oh, I dunno. They kept some people in work then, they keep some people in work now. I'm sure there were some people struggling financially when Stonehenge was built, and complaining what the fuck do we need a calendar for when we can look out the door and see if the snowdrops are out yet?

I'd love to read a Mill's alt-hist series where he shows us what kind of world he thinks would exist if all his betes noires had never existed.

Regards,

Robin
Title: Re: Prog 2059 - Fiends in High Places
Post by: TordelBack on 02 December, 2017, 08:48:10 PM
Is the organisation that built Stonehenge still around and still using their vast wealth and power to control, obstruct education, and cover up abuse? The church is still a very valid target, and drawing parallels between a living mountain who views the earth as a prison under his rule, and giant stone buildings that teach much the same, seems like a clever conceit.

Giving Pat a pass on this one.
Title: Re: Prog 2059 - Fiends in High Places
Post by: Modern Panther on 02 December, 2017, 10:54:37 PM
I think its perfectly fine to use Slaine as a platform for anti/pro-pretty much any social or political view.  It is, after all, what 2000ad has been doing for a long time.  But there is no excuse for not being entertaining and clever about it.

This has just been "Shouty shout stab stab shouty Christianity is bad stab shouty shout" for fifty pages.
Title: Re: Prog 2059 - Fiends in High Places
Post by: Robin Low on 03 December, 2017, 08:50:15 AM
Quote from: TordelBack on 02 December, 2017, 08:48:10 PM
Is the organisation that built Stonehenge still around and still using their vast wealth and power to control, obstruct education, and cover up abuse? The church is still a very valid target, and drawing parallels between a living mountain who views the earth as a prison under his rule, and giant stone buildings that teach much the same, seems like a clever conceit.

Giving Pat a pass on this one.

I never said anything about the church. I was responding to the supposed obscenity of cathedrals.

No idea whether Pat deserves a pass or not, as I quit reading Slaine a couple of Brutania Chronicles back. (Even with some rather nice stuff from Simon Davis it's just tedious.) However, I don't think the world would necessarily a better place if Mills could rewrite history. It would just be bad in a different way.

Regards,

Robin
Title: Re: Prog 2059 - Fiends in High Places
Post by: TordelBack on 03 December, 2017, 09:38:29 AM
Quote from: Robin Low on 03 December, 2017, 08:50:15 AM
I never said anything about the church. I was responding to the supposed obscenity of cathedrals.

Fair enough, but I can't help feeling the two are connected... I imagine the distaste expressed in the strip stems from that, rather than architectural criticism. I love a good cathedral, and most medieval churches, for all that I would happily see all religion pass into memory
Title: Re: Prog 2059 - Fiends in High Places
Post by: Robin Low on 03 December, 2017, 12:49:21 PM
Quote from: TordelBack on 03 December, 2017, 09:38:29 AM
Quote from: Robin Low on 03 December, 2017, 08:50:15 AM
I never said anything about the church. I was responding to the supposed obscenity of cathedrals.

Fair enough, but I can't help feeling the two are connected...

And it's reasonable to feel that way. The problem is, as always, human nature. If it wasn't the church, it would be some other organisation. Evil people, good people and stupid people will use whatever structures they can to enable their behaviour. Those same structures will attempt to protect themselves, with both the good and the stupid people arguing or perhaps just hoping that the good outweighs the bad, or maybe just not wanting to be tainted by association. We all know it happens in secular organisations too.

It's likely that organised structures facilitate abuse of power and cover-ups, but they also enable and promote good things, too. Both the good and the bad have to be acknowledged, and that's what Mills fails to do. It's similar to his attitude to superheroes. He only sees people looking to superheroes as their superiors, as saviours, and failing to see the inherent power of ordinary people. He fails to see that some people are inspired by superheroes to see the power in themselves.

QuoteI imagine the distaste expressed in the strip stems from that, rather than architectural criticism. I love a good cathedral, and most medieval churches, for all that I would happily see all religion pass into memory

I'd rather see Christian groups recognise the real good they could do in society, and that leading by example is better than force and threat when it comes to connecting with people. However, I think that by placing them under constant attack they inevitably withdraw and double down. I wonder if actively supporting individual priests, vicars, whoever, who are in favour of (for example) gay marriage would be more beneficial than attacking their church as a whole? I dunno, what do you think?

Sorry, I'm rambling a bit, as well as being attacked by a small child attempting to rub not-really-play-dough (from a good but still pretend Father Christmas) into my beard.

Regards,

Robin
Title: Re: Prog 2059 - Fiends in High Places
Post by: dweezil2 on 03 December, 2017, 01:57:49 PM
Quote from: Robin Low on 03 December, 2017, 12:49:21 PM
Quote from: TordelBack on 03 December, 2017, 09:38:29 AM
Quote from: Robin Low on 03 December, 2017, 08:50:15 AM
I never said anything about the church. I was responding to the supposed obscenity of cathedrals.

Fair enough, but I can't help feeling the two are connected...


It's likely that organised structures facilitate abuse of power and cover-ups, but they also enable and promote good things, too. Both the good and the bad have to be acknowledged, and that's what Mills fails to do. It's similar to his attitude to superheroes. He only sees people looking to superheroes as their superiors, as saviours, and failing to see the inherent power of ordinary people. He fails to see that some people are inspired by superheroes to see the power in themselves.



Just to add to the debate-where we having a debate a debate?  :lol:

Particularly on Mills' dislike of superheroes I'd just add my feelings on the matter.

With Mills' output I enjoy the innate cynicism of his voice.
The naive ethos pushed by mostly American comics that some God like super-being will save the day just doesn't resonate with me and I find it uninteresting from a thematic and dramatic standpoint, as these indestructible superheroes face little threat, even when writers attempt to write around this limitation by taking away their powers, we all know they'll endure in the end.
Also their self righteous posturing and portentousness I find incredibly irritating and is my main reason while avoid such titles, unless they set out to deconstruct the genre.

Thankfully 2000AD has never pushed this agenda with its stable of anti-heroes and the fatalism and pragmatism imbued by the majority of characters and stories is a most welcome contrast.

I understand why superheroes are popular, hey we'd all like some super-being, or God, to come along and save the day and solve the world's problems, but the worlds problems are fundamentally man made and only man can solve them and delegating the responsibility to someone else sends the wrong message, to my mind.
Escapism is fine, but it sends the wrong message and perpetuates a flawed reasoning and world view.
Either that, or I'm a miserable old bastard!!! 

Just my musings on a particularly dull Sunday afternoon!  :)
Title: Re: Prog 2059 - Fiends in High Places
Post by: Steve Green on 03 December, 2017, 02:35:49 PM
Yeah it's a distinction between 2000AD and Marvel/DC characters.

Sam Slade usually loses.

Johnny Alpha has a pretty patch record on saving the day.

Dredd failed to stop the Apocalypse War happening, and eventually the near destruction of MC-1. He also failed to prevent Necropolis, The Judge Child quest was pretty much a wild-goose chase.

Interestingly Pat's Cursed Earth journey had him as the hero, and Garth ended up nuking his temporary success.

Ace Garp is definitely a loser.

Nemesis is outside your usual heroics.

Rogue is a bit of a weird one because his victory effectively ends the strip. But then it all goes a bit crap after achieving his victory.
Title: Re: Prog 2059 - Fiends in High Places
Post by: Robin Low on 03 December, 2017, 05:50:46 PM
Quote from: dweezil2 on 03 December, 2017, 01:57:49 PMParticularly on Mills' dislike of superheroes I'd just add my feelings on the matter.

Marshall Law:Fear and Loathing, Takes Manhattan, Kingdom of the Blind. Perfect, job done. After that, a bit pointless.

Regards,

Robin
Title: Re: Prog 2059 - Fiends in High Places
Post by: Prodigal2 on 04 December, 2017, 10:45:35 AM
I feel like I should chip in on the faith/Pat mills faith front. Problem is I'm knackered and not sure if I have the energy for an extended play on the issue.

A few thoughts:

1. Religion needs scrutiny-it can be and has been, the great legitimator for all kinds of ugliness.
2. Christians are a mixed bunch. Not all of us are into thought control or coercion. Really, really.
3. Agree on cathedrals. Beautiful, but far too much wealth tied up in church buildings.Believe it or not I am not the only Christian who subscribes to this. There's a lot of criticism on this front from many people within the church. Personally my preference is for small community based churches who book community halls/resources and are active in social action for its own sake.
4. Ironically one of the biggest tests, Biblically, to determine the reality of faith is the use of wealth. Christianity should should promote a radical social agenda in my view and not marry itself to wealth and power. Love the Levelers. Common ownership of property practiced by the disciples in NT etc (b incidentally Hitler called Communism the bastard son of Christianity).


Ranting now.


Title: Re: Prog 2059 - Fiends in High Places
Post by: TordelBack on 04 December, 2017, 11:24:09 AM
As usual Prodigal presents a version of Christianity that is so welcome as to be almost shocking.  We've been over this before, but I have never been able to recognise the vaguest sliver of what I understood Jesus to be on about in the most vocal and visible expressions of Christianity. 

When you're reading about conflict and oppositions in the New Testament, stuff like Jesus and the Woes of the Pharisees, or Jesus v. the money changers in the Temple, or even Jesus and Zacchaeus v. His followers, which side does so much of the visible organised religion appear to be on?

As to Mills, I think the thematic resonance of a massive judgemental mountain decrying earthly pleasures and a massive stone building doing much the same was just to good to miss. For myself, as a born-again atheist, there is something wonderful about the cool dark and silence of walking into a great church in a busy summer city, or the breathtaking craftsmanship in a rood screen, or dizzying space beneath crossing tower, that leads me to forgive a lot.

Title: Re: Prog 2059 - Fiends in High Places
Post by: pauljholden on 04 December, 2017, 01:56:29 PM
Quote from: Prodigal2 on 04 December, 2017, 10:45:35 AM
3. Agree on cathedrals. Beautiful, but far too much wealth tied up in church buildings.Believe it or not I am not the only Christian who subscribes to this. There's a lot of criticism on this front from many people within the church. Personally my preference is for small community based churches who book community halls/resources and are active in social action for its own sake.

(To state my position: very much an atheist - baptised a catholic age 7, by my English protestant mother/catholic dad so I could be sent to a catholic school nearby - religion I've always felt is very much an accident of birth, but as someone once said about me - assuming, I think, it was complimentary, "He's the most moral atheist I ever met")

Went with my wife to Rome and toured St Peter's Basilica, and while my wife enjoyed it (I mean, it's amazing) I found myself getting more and more upset with the enormous wealth that was used to create it (especially considering it was built at a time of crippling property) coincidentally, on our return it was the 500 year anniversary of Martin Luther, and never having read any of his thesis (I remember something about him from history in my catholic boys school) I thought I should give them the once over, and one in particular stuck out for me, to wit:

86. Again, ``Why does not the pope, whose wealth is today greater than the wealth of the richest Crassus, build this one basilica of St. Peter with his own money rather than with the money of poor believers?''

Anyways, me and Martin Luther. We're like THAT.

As you were.

-pj
Title: Re: Prog 2059 - Fiends in High Places
Post by: Prodigal2 on 05 December, 2017, 12:21:19 PM
Quote from: pauljholden on 04 December, 2017, 01:56:29 PM
Quote from: Prodigal2 on 04 December, 2017, 10:45:35 AM
3. Agree on cathedrals. Beautiful, but far too much wealth tied up in church buildings.Believe it or not I am not the only Christian who subscribes to this. There's a lot of criticism on this front from many people within the church. Personally my preference is for small community based churches who book community halls/resources and are active in social action for its own sake.

(To state my position: very much an atheist - baptised a catholic age 7, by my English protestant mother/catholic dad so I could be sent to a catholic school nearby - religion I've always felt is very much an accident of birth, but as someone once said about me - assuming, I think, it was complimentary, "He's the most moral atheist I ever met")

Went with my wife to Rome and toured St Peter's Basilica, and while my wife enjoyed it (I mean, it's amazing) I found myself getting more and more upset with the enormous wealth that was used to create it (especially considering it was built at a time of crippling property) coincidentally, on our return it was the 500 year anniversary of Martin Luther, and never having read any of his thesis (I remember something about him from history in my catholic boys school) I thought I should give them the once over, and one in particular stuck out for me, to wit:

86. Again, ``Why does not the pope, whose wealth is today greater than the wealth of the richest Crassus, build this one basilica of St. Peter with his own money rather than with the money of poor believers?''

Anyways, me and Martin Luther. We're like THAT.

As you were.

-pj

While I was reading Pat's Slaine and browsing this topic I could not help but reflect on the experiences of my friend Andy, who was an elder (gaffer) in a local Presbyterian church in my home town just a few short years ago. At one meeting the issue arose as to what to do with  a sum of money that had been raised and earmarked for some building work around the church. Subsequently there had been some questioning as to the need for the work and there was a subsequent debate at an elders meeting. When Andy suggested that if they wanted to really wanted to act Biblically on the issue then he thought they should simply donate the money to worthy causes he was meet with a look of sheer incredibility before being ignored.

Prods do this sort too-maybe not just in such spectacular fashion but they do it.

PS This started Andy on a path to his now embraced atheism. We remain friends as we still like each other and my battered (make that often punch-drunk) faith and his atheism find no grounds for animosity.
Title: Re: Prog 2059 - Fiends in High Places
Post by: philt on 05 December, 2017, 09:52:30 PM
Judge Dredd surfing on the back of a dead dog. Unintended or not, that's as apt a metaphor for the state of the current iteration of Dredd as I can think of.
Title: Re: Prog 2059 - Fiends in High Places
Post by: jabish on 05 December, 2017, 10:09:21 PM
Quote from: philt on 05 December, 2017, 09:52:30 PM
Judge Dredd surfing on the back of a dead dog. Unintended or not, that's as apt a metaphor for the state of the current iteration of Dredd as I can think of.

Back of the net with that comment. Jumped the shark? Nope. Worse. Surfed the dog. Very poor stuff.
Title: Re: Prog 2059 - Fiends in High Places
Post by: Proudhuff on 06 December, 2017, 07:00:57 PM
Quote from: Colin YNWA on 28 November, 2017, 07:54:24 PM
Quote from: Proudhuff on 28 November, 2017, 10:05:47 AM
...and SinDex was a skippyskip for me.

I am so mad at you right now... just so mad...

... no just don't say anything...

...look no just stop it. Don't touch me, don't even look at me...

... just so mad at you...

er, hiya....
Title: Re: Prog 2059 - Fiends in High Places
Post by: Colin YNWA on 07 December, 2017, 09:41:50 PM
Quote from: Proudhuff on 06 December, 2017, 07:00:57 PM
Quote from: Colin YNWA on 28 November, 2017, 07:54:24 PM
Quote from: Proudhuff on 28 November, 2017, 10:05:47 AM
...and SinDex was a skippyskip for me.

I am so mad at you right now... just so mad...

... no just don't say anything...

...look no just stop it. Don't touch me, don't even look at me...

... just so mad at you...

er, hiya....

No, no its still too soon, still too raw...
Title: Re: Prog 2059 - Fiends in High Places
Post by: Tiplodocus on 07 December, 2017, 10:27:44 PM
Oo-er Missus!
Title: Re: Prog 2059 - Fiends in High Places
Post by: TordelBack on 08 December, 2017, 08:43:48 AM
Takes a librarian a good while to recover from having his index cards shuffled by uncaring fingers.
Title: Re: Prog 2059 - Fiends in High Places
Post by: Proudhuff on 08 December, 2017, 06:53:02 PM
Quote from: Colin YNWA on 07 December, 2017, 09:41:50 PM
Quote from: Proudhuff on 06 December, 2017, 07:00:57 PM
Quote from: Colin YNWA on 28 November, 2017, 07:54:24 PM
Quote from: Proudhuff on 28 November, 2017, 10:05:47 AM
...and SinDex was a skippyskip for me.

I am so mad at you right now... just so mad...

... no just don't say anything...

...look no just stop it. Don't touch me, don't even look at me...

... just so mad at you...

er, hiya....

No, no its still too soon, still too raw...

how about I rub a little oil on it?
Title: Re: Prog 2059 - Fiends in High Places
Post by: Jim_Campbell on 08 December, 2017, 07:04:48 PM
Quote from: Proudhuff on 08 December, 2017, 06:53:02 PM
how about I rub a little oil on it?

It puts the lotion on its skin...
Title: Re: Prog 2059 - Fiends in High Places
Post by: Proudhuff on 08 December, 2017, 08:02:12 PM
its that or the hose...
Title: Re: Prog 2059 - Fiends in High Places
Post by: Verence on 16 December, 2017, 11:19:39 PM
No mention of Count Arthur Strong's cameo in the Sinister Dexter story?
Title: Re: Prog 2059 - Fiends in High Places
Post by: Proudhuff on 18 December, 2017, 10:38:23 AM
Quote from: Verence on 16 December, 2017, 11:19:39 PM
No mention of Count Arthur Strong's cameo in the Sinister Dexter story?

I spotted that and had a chortle, he should be in every strip somewhere...like Where's (the) Wally?
Title: Re: Prog 2059 - Fiends in High Places
Post by: Funt Solo on 27 July, 2020, 03:17:10 AM
++Necropost++

Dredd (with his hands tied behind his back, and peppered with crossbow bolts) surfs a mutant wolf's corpse down a smelter's half-pipe? Just no!