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Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi

Started by TordelBack, 23 January, 2017, 04:29:12 PM

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JOE SOAP

#450
Quote from: dyl on 20 December, 2017, 01:49:15 AM
I think that there are different types of plot hole though, yes some films can be taken apart after the fact and shown to have plot holes, like Raiders and the way that Indy makes almost no difference to the outcome of the film. This doesn't matter to the film though as you're not aware of it.

It's true it doesn't matter because story is more important than plot but I don't think it can really be considered a plot hole and it tidily plays into the logic of a story about men messing with 'godly and unholy things' they don't understand - resulting in the best use of a literal deus ex machina to resolve the story, as only a god can.

A nerdy professor may be forgiven for being out of his depth when battling Nazis and Old Testament gods but like us he's really only along for the adventure, plus he is the only one who figured out how to accurately located the ark.


dyl

I know, bad example. Was just trying to say that the stuff that bugs me are the plot holes right in your face as you watch the film.

JOE SOAP

It's never bad when there's an excuse to bring up the brilliance of Raiders.

SIP

Quote from: JOE SOAP on 20 December, 2017, 02:55:38 AM
It's never bad when there's an excuse to bring up the brilliance of Raiders.

Greatest film ever made 😊

The Legendary Shark

Quote from: Professor Bear on 19 December, 2017, 11:14:51 PM
Also, if you're not supposed to think about films after you watch them, where does that leave movies like 2001, Memento, or The Shining?  Is it that you're only supposed to think about certain films after you've watched them?
If so, is there some kind of database online where I can check if I'm allowed to ask questions about a film I've just watched?  Or is there a note at the start or end of films that I should look out for in future so I know I should just sit there and let the film wash over me like urine across the face of one of Little Richard's hookers?

I said I watch Star Wars for spectacle because that's how I derive the most pleasure from them. Picking them apart afterwards is, to me, a lesser pleasure. For example, I'd rather enjoy the battle to destroy the Death Star on-screen than moan about why the Rebels don't bolt hyperdrives to a couple of asteroids to create missiles with phenomenal amounts of kinetic energy, or why the Empire even needs a Death Star when they could bolt hyperdrives to a couple of even bigger asteroids to destroy planets with because the answer is, "who cares? Just watch the exciting damned dogfight!" If I watched the Star Wars fairy tales for sense, I'd be as miserable as all those Reymoaners out there. I watch them for spectacle, which is why  I'm happy with them.

You, of course, watch Star Wars for your reasons.

[move]~~~^~~~~~~~[/move]




Mikey

Quote from: TordelBack on 19 December, 2017, 07:57:17 PM
Quote from: Spaceghost on 19 December, 2017, 07:09:26 PM
I'm going to have to come to terms with the fact that I'm wrong, an idiot, or both, because I thought it was fantastic.

That makes two of us.  Flawed, challenging, but fantastic.

Me three. I bloody loved every second of it after expecting to have at least some parts I didn't enjoy after seeing some (what I rightly suspected as manbaby) grumbles about it online. Also: Lorna Derne. Consider me swooned!

One of the things I saw complaints about was the humour - my take is that there is no way Star Wars films can't be kinda aware of themselves and not taking themselves too seriously being such an ingrained pop culture reference. I chuckled, what can I say?
To tell the truth, you can all get screwed.

Tiplodocus

Quote from: dyl on 20 December, 2017, 02:48:31 AM
I know, bad example. Was just trying to say that the stuff that bugs me are the plot holes right in your face as you watch the film.

He makes no difference to the Ark, sure. But he makes a big difference to Marion. That's the story!
Be excellent to each other. And party on!

Tiplodocus

Quote from: shaolin_monkey on 19 December, 2017, 10:31:52 PM

If I recall, weapons were not permitted on this planet, but Leia had a weapon hidden in her diplomatic pouch. Not that it's relevant at all.

I remember that. Technically it wasn't a weapon which is how she got it by the scanners. [spoiler]It was a gravity multiplier of some sort and, because the writer didn't under stand how gravity worked, it zapped Vader (or was it a different baddie) down a big hole in the ground (like digging to Australia)[/spoiler]
Be excellent to each other. And party on!

TordelBack

Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 20 December, 2017, 06:42:04 AM....all those Reymoaners out there....

I'll gladly accept that as a Christmas present.  Wonderful.

TordelBack

Quote from: Tiplodocus on 20 December, 2017, 10:23:52 AM
Quote from: dyl on 20 December, 2017, 02:48:31 AM
I know, bad example. Was just trying to say that the stuff that bugs me are the plot holes right in your face as you watch the film.

He makes no difference to the Ark, sure. But he makes a big difference to Marion. That's the story!

S'right.  But even beyond that, despite claiming it's all about fortune and glory, Indy is in it to learn the truth, which is the one thing he succeeds at finding in each of the four movies (painfully spelled out at the end of Crystal Skull, but no less true for that).  Frustrating the plans of Nazis, as the enemies of truth, is almost collateral damage.

Professor Bear


The Legendary Shark

Quote from: TordelBack on 20 December, 2017, 12:22:50 PM
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 20 December, 2017, 06:42:04 AM....all those Reymoaners out there....
I'll gladly accept that as a Christmas present.  Wonderful.
Heh, then it's all yours, my friend - and here's wishing you and yours a wonderful Christmas and a peaceful New Year :)
[move]~~~^~~~~~~~[/move]




GrudgeJohnDeed

I found the [spoiler]mutiny and Laura Dern's plan[/spoiler] all a bit odd, please correct me if I'm misremembering anything

[spoiler]The story goes.. Poe finds out Laura Dern's plan to evacuate the main ship in slow unarmoured ships in full view of the First Order, he says it will get them all killed. He hatches a plan with his chums to stop the First Order tracking them and sends them off to a different planet. When the codebreaker mission starts to go west, he mutinies, fails and wakes up in the lifeboats or on his way to them. He finds out that part of Laura Dern's plan was for her to stay on the ship and now its a much better plan. I'm not including the light speed incident as part of the plan, it was a reaction to the plan failing against her expectations.

Now what changed? To me, the new plan was very similar indeed to the old plan and surely still had the exact same problem of visibility. If we ignore that and say the plan is a great one if Laura Dern stays on the ship, then why did she tell everyone just enough of the plan to make it sound suicidal and stop there? Also did I miss something as to how Finn and Rose getting off the ship wasn't an issue? [/spoiler]



Bolt-01

I don't think Poe was party to the evacuation part of the plan. He simply assumed that they were going to try and stay ahead of the FO while they worked something out. He then deliberately didn't tell her about his sending Finn and rose off on a maguffin hunt...

GrudgeJohnDeed

Right, I remember that differently maybe someone can shed some light on that. Yeah he didn't think she'd ok his codebreaker plan, that's for sure.