This year my beloved Minnesota Vikings defeated the Pittsburgh Steelers at Wembley stadium. Next year, the NFL has scheduled three games to be played in th U.K.
Does anyone over there actually care about the NFL? I see that people actually turn out for these games, but London is a big city, and for all I know they're just giving the tickets away to anyone who will take them. So is our favorite sport catching on over there, or is that just the NFL propaganda machine in effect?
It is less popular than rugby and cricket, and these are far less popular than football (or 'soccer' as it is known in the states.
I think there is a minority interest in it and some cities have an American Football team but I would expect that a significant proportion of the people who would turn up to watch an NFL game in London would be Americans.
I can't speak for the rest of the UK, but it seems quite popular here in Belfast. A bar I worked in about 5 years ago showed Sunday Night Football and would be fairly packed. The crowd seemed well informed and opinionated. I do think it's a good sport, highly tactical and much more cerebral than it appears at first glance, but the length of time it takes can be ridiculous. There's an hour on the game clock, but it can take 3-4 hours to complete in some cases. I tend to just watch the highlights show.
And TV timeouts? Fuck off, that's just disrespectful to both the athletes and the spectators.
At the risk of pandering to stereotypes, I honestly cannot get my head around a game where its proponents call it football, yet it is played with the hands.
So that's more or less what I figured. The NFL is huge here, and they keep telling us that the sport is expanding worldwide, even speculating that a franchise might be started in London in the upcoming years. I'm skeptical, and my impression is that the rest of the world could give a shit about American Football.
Though to be fair, most Americans don't really understand or care about the other kind of Football (Soccer).
I mentioned this before on another thread, but there are two schools of thought on why it's called FOOTball.
The first is because the ball itself is a foot long. This seems sensible enough, but I don't think any other sport uses dimensions as a rubric for naming its equipment. Areas of the field yes, but equipment....none come to mind.
The other seems absolutely ludicrous. It's called football because it is played on foot. This is to distinguish it from the many many other field sports that are played on horseback. As if the Americans invented playing sports with a ball on a field on foot.
Furthermore, the reason many of us Europeans don't like it being called soccer is because traditionally only posh wankers called it that.
The internet doesn't have a clear answer as to the name. The length of the ball could be as good of reason as any, though it seems kind of odd. My guess is that there since there used to be a lot more kicking involved, it used to make more sense.
Quote from: Mister Pops on 27 October, 2013, 04:07:55 PM
Furthermore, the reason many of us Europeans don't like it being called soccer is because traditionally only posh wankers called it that.
That or the fact that Football is a perfectly good name for it so why have another, less sensible name? Its football, or 'the footie' no need for nowt else.
As to the matter at hand like many in this country I got very into American Football around 86 when Channel 4 started to televise it, along with a variety of other international sports, Australian Football (I remember that being very good) sumo and anyone for Kabaddi. It actually took over from the footie as playground game of choice for a few months. It drifted back into relative obscurity again after a few years but whenever I stumble across it I always enjoy watching. The main problem it seems almost defined by the desire to generate TV revenue, a model that's disrupting the actual game for so many other sports now. Does my head in. The fact that test cricket has to constantly 'compete' for attention against more immediate forms of the game infuriates me... but as I began I digress again...
I wanted to go and see the Vikings when I was over in Minnesota a few weeks back (I was working just next to their training facility in Eden Prairie) but they were playing away for the first weekend I was there and they were over in London for the next one, so we went to see the twins play baseball instead.
I'm not a fan of the sport but we just thought it would be cool to go to a game while there, as far as I know it just doesn't get shown on TV here, same with baseball which I would watch as I really enjoyed the game we went to.
Quote from: Rog69 on 27 October, 2013, 04:44:19 PM
I wanted to go and see the Vikings when I was over in Minnesota a few weeks back (I was working just next to their training facility in Eden Prairie) but they were playing away for the first weekend I was there and they were over in London for the next one, so we went to see the twins play baseball instead.
I'm not a fan of the sport but we just thought it would be cool to go to a game while there, as far as I know it just doesn't get shown on TV here, same with baseball which I would watch as I really enjoyed the game we went to.
With all the talking the NFL has been doing about establishing a UK presence, I'm surprised there aren't more options for even watching the games. It's kind of hard to establish a fan base if your intended audience can't watch the product.
Baseball is a great summer sport to go watch live. I have a hard time watching it on TV during the regular season. When I was a kid, we used to go see a lot of Twins games back when they played indoors. I don't live near the Twin Cities anymore, but we go see the local minor league team around here play whenever we can. It's kind of a shame that you can't get any baseball on the TV over there. The World Series is going on right now, and last nights game was really great.
The San Fransisco 49ers are playing the Jacksonville Jaguars right now at Wembly. Is that on TV? Was that game publicized enough for anyone to even be aware of it that didn't already care?
Quote from: Jo-L on 27 October, 2013, 05:19:47 PM
The San Fransisco 49ers are playing the Jacksonville Jaguars right now at Wembly. Is that on TV? Was that game publicized enough for anyone to even be aware of it that didn't already care?
Yes it is on live right now - and has been heavily trailed.
I was at the first of these Wembley games about 6 years ago when it was the Giants Vs Dolphins and it was really dull. It's OK on TV with lots of replays, graphics and comment but live it just looks like loads of padded guys running intp each other and standing about. It suits TV that they have lots of breaks but there is a lot less fluid action and excitement that you get in a football (soccer) match.
I saw a few games in Denver and Chicago this year and it's a great sport with beer and wings but less so live. The coverage is amazing - all week wall to wall chatter about injuries, recaps and speculation - in a bar in Chicago they gave ot horns and streamers - can help but get involved (when drunk).
Talk for the future is of an east coast team playing all their 'home' games in London while still being based in the States so they can attract the players and sponsors.
Quote from: Mister Pops on 27 October, 2013, 03:43:05 PM
I can't speak for the rest of the UK, but it seems quite popular here in Belfast. A bar I worked in about 5 years ago showed Sunday Night Football and would be fairly packed. The crowd seemed well informed and opinionated.
See also: American pro wrestling.
As for why it's called football, I have always assumed that was because someone kicks the ball with their foot during play. Ditto that game where you hit a ball and then try to steal base isn't called Bat And Ball or Run At The Base - these things were popular as children's games and weren't meant to be rocket science, so I suspect the simplest explanations are the most likely, ie: someone picked a name and it stuck.
A friend who's into it explained to me that John Madden is a rubbish commentator, is this true? I know nothing about the sport.
I watched it years ago when Mick Luckhurst did the highlight show on Channel 4. I enjoyed that but a full match would bore me, with all the breaks, stop starts, etc... I understand it's all spectacle, with all the other stuff but I'd be there for the game, nothing more, nothing less!
Quote from: Ancient Otter on 27 October, 2013, 06:44:21 PM
A friend who's into it explained to me that John Madden is a rubbish commentator, is this true? I know nothing about the sport.
Madden (now retired) became a bit of a joke - especially in his later years. He was a great coach in the 70's, and had a big, charming personality, but wasn't a very good commentator. One big slam on him was that he liked to state the obvious. Things like "What they want to do here is to score some points so they can win the game" or "In this play, they are trying to stop the other team from getting a first down". Pat Summerall was his co-commentator, and really carried that team for many years.
I seen Miami in the first Wembley game a few years ago and they are playing next year.
I might be going to the Abu Dhabi GP next year but if that doesn't work out I'll try go see the Dolphins beat the Raiders. Although with the way Miami play these days it could go either way.
Where's large48 when you need him? ;)
Sky Sports do a decent job in covering it in the UK. Like others, I learnt about it in the Channel 4 highlights days in the 80's and my Dad used to go on business to Boston, so I had New England Patriots stuff (and am still a fan of them). When Channel 4 stopped showing it, I stopped watching it, but recently discovered it on Sky Sports and enjoy their coverage. The endless stop / start is broken up by reports from other games and general chit-chat.
The rules and complex and cumbersome. The Patriots lost the other day on a technicality (someone got a helping push, apparently) which was very annoying. I understand the basics, and just let the rest wash over me. Americans love their stats, so they spend a lot of time talking about that when the game stops.
I'm in the US at the moment, and the thing that really gets me is College and High School Football! What's that about? I guess there's not male professional division except the NFL. So, unlike proper football (soccer) where there are lower divisions, they cover college and high school. That's weird... What next? Kindergarten?
I've also heard talk of a London based team. Just like you hear talk of a Premier League football team based in Asia. It's stupid and I can't see it happening. As to the Wembley thing, it's a novelty, but I can't see huge crowds week in, week out...
College football is actually very good, very intense when two good teams play.
American Football is not a boring game at all once you know the nuances of the game. It is very much like a chess match, and you can really get into it when you recognize the offensive formations and see how the defenders adjust to those formations before the snap of the ball. It's not just big dudes smashing into each other.
J0-L, I'm an American who lived in the UK for six years (been back in the States for two now). I actually played a season on Bury St. Edmonds football team, and it was pretty fun. While I was there, the popularity of the sport grew and I noticed more and more folks talking about it before I returned to the States.
Quote from: SimeonB on 28 October, 2013, 12:08:14 AM
I'm in the US at the moment, and the thing that really gets me is College and High School Football! What's that about? I guess there's not male professional division except the NFL. So, unlike proper football (soccer) where there are lower divisions, they cover college and high school.
As I understand it, there were once lower amateur leagues, but people died. So now you can only play the full blooded version of the sport in NFL approved institutions. Anyone can start in high school, but if you don't get a football scholarship to go to college, you'll never play a full contact blood and thunder game ever again. Which I think is a bit sad.
My in-laws love the game, all Irish American, I never could get a feel for it, but from what I gather its a real day out/in with the game taking so long.
This side of these isles, football refers to a different game again, so soccer is a a word that is used in this house.
Quote from: locustsofdeath! on 28 October, 2013, 12:33:49 AM
College football is actually very good, very intense when two good teams play.
American Football is not a boring game at all once you know the nuances of the game. It is very much like a chess match, and you can really get into it when you recognize the offensive formations and see how the defenders adjust to those formations before the snap of the ball. It's not just big dudes smashing into each other.
Yeah, it is like chess - that's a good comparison. I like to watch American Football, I just don't get all the positions and strategies. A bit like chess for me! I'm afraid I have never grasped what a 'Safety' or 'Tight End' is - positions like 'Corner Back' and 'Running Back' are more obvious. Like I say, I get 'fumbles', 'shotguns', 'wide opens' and 'blitzes' but the more subtle stuff is over my head.
I wonder if it is like cricket in that it is better to grow up with it and actually play it to get an appreciation of everything that goes on? I find test match cricket fascinating, but that's a different conversation :)
This Penny Arcade Web-comic explains it perfectly to gamer-nerds:
(http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18bwhki08y3mwjpg/ku-xlarge.jpg)
While this Kotaku* article (http://kotaku.com/5980571/football-the-kotaku-review/1273683175) expands on the idea.
*Kotaku is a terrible, unoriginal site full of crass churnalism, for your own good, for your own sanity DO NOT read anything else from these hack bastards.
Quote from: Mister Pops on 28 October, 2013, 12:40:24 AM
As I understand it, there were once lower amateur leagues, but people died. So now you can only play the full blooded version of the sport in NFL approved institutions. Anyone can start in high school, but if you don't get a football scholarship to go to college, you'll never play a full contact blood and thunder game ever again. Which I think is a bit sad.
I don't know anything about all that. There are a bunch of amateur leagues, but they're mostly full of players aren't quite good enough for the NFL. NFL Europe was more or less a farm-team league for the NFL while it was around, but it was mostly populated with non NFL-caliber talent.
Most professional NFL players don't have very long careers. I think the average is like 3-5 years. The NFL is ultra-competitive, and the longer you play the harder it is on these guys' bodies. College players come in right after they've played 4-5 years at a very high level, and they are at their peak physical condition. At that point, either they are going to be able to make an NFL team, or they likely never will. No need for a farm team given those choices.
College is essentially a professional league here. College teams play in 100,000 seats sold-out stadiums, and the players and coaches are on the news every day. I live in a state where we don't have a professional team, so the University team here basically rules the state. EVERYONE watches the game. The streets and stores are pretty much emptied during the game. The bars are full, and there's RED everywhere. It's pretty fun actually, though I could see the phenomenon would be completely weird if you didn't grow up with it.
Quote from: Jo-L on 28 October, 2013, 01:27:57 AM
Quote from: Mister Pops on 28 October, 2013, 12:40:24 AM
As I understand it, there were once lower amateur leagues, but people died. So now you can only play the full blooded version of the sport in NFL approved institutions. Anyone can start in high school, but if you don't get a football scholarship to go to college, you'll never play a full contact blood and thunder game ever again. Which I think is a bit sad.
I don't know anything about all that. There are a bunch of amateur leagues, but they're mostly full of players aren't quite good enough for the NFL. NFL Europe was more or less a farm-team league for the NFL while it was around, but it was mostly populated with non NFL-caliber talent.
I will of course defer to your superior knowledge. Those Non NFL-calibre players, would they still have come through the college football system, or would they be more like Sunday League teams in association football? A bunch of enthusiastic (maybe overweight or at least not exactly fit) mates who cobbled together enough men for a squad and play against a buncha similar fellas.
Quote from: Mister Pops on 28 October, 2013, 01:46:02 AM
Quote from: Jo-L on 28 October, 2013, 01:27:57 AM
Quote from: Mister Pops on 28 October, 2013, 12:40:24 AM
As I understand it, there were once lower amateur leagues, but people died. So now you can only play the full blooded version of the sport in NFL approved institutions. Anyone can start in high school, but if you don't get a football scholarship to go to college, you'll never play a full contact blood and thunder game ever again. Which I think is a bit sad.
I don't know anything about all that. There are a bunch of amateur leagues, but they're mostly full of players aren't quite good enough for the NFL. NFL Europe was more or less a farm-team league for the NFL while it was around, but it was mostly populated with non NFL-caliber talent.
I will of course defer to your superior knowledge. Those Non NFL-calibre players, would they still have come through the college football system, or would they be more like Sunday League teams in association football? A bunch of enthusiastic (maybe overweight or at least not exactly fit) mates who cobbled together enough men for a squad and play against a buncha similar fellas.
Yeah, pretty much every pro football player is going to have come through college. It's where you go to learn how it all works, and there's a lot to know. Football is a pretty amazingly fast game strategy wise. It's full of secret codes and constant game planning and adjustments. The semi-pro leagues, Arena ball, and Canadian football is where the guys go who want to play, but didn't make it in the NFL. Also, you'll see older ex-NFL players in those leagues. Occasionally you'll see a guy come out of those leagues and make it in the NFL. Kurt Warner is a really great example of a guy who didn't make the NFL out of college, went to the arena league, got another shot, and then became a superstar.
(American) Football is hugely popular here, so even in the semi-pro leagues, most every player is going to be in top shape. Lineman are an exception. You often see giant fat guys who do a perfectly adequate job of guarding the line.
I don't claim to be an expert on anything btw, I'm just another enthusiastic spectator.
Quote from: locustsofdeath! on 28 October, 2013, 12:33:49 AM
College football is actually very good, very intense when two good teams play.
I go back and forth between college and NFL. I typically like the NFL more, just because it's better technical play. College however, can be way more emotionally intense. There's only a few games a year, and losing any of those games can mean the end of the season. The players are literally all kids going through whatever 18-22 year olds go through, which as a former 18-22 year old I can attest to as being a tumultuous time in one's life. The crowds are usually packed with rabid fans, and you're on campus where they've spent all week getting ready for the big game.
Quote from: locustsofdeath! on 28 October, 2013, 12:33:49 AM
American Football is not a boring game at all once you know the nuances of the game. It is very much like a chess match, and you can really get into it when you recognize the offensive formations and see how the defenders adjust to those formations before the snap of the ball. It's not just big dudes smashing into each other.
I think the chess analogy is apt.
Quote from: locustsofdeath! on 28 October, 2013, 12:33:49 AM
J0-L, I'm an American who lived in the UK for six years (been back in the States for two now). I actually played a season on Bury St. Edmonds football team, and it was pretty fun. While I was there, the popularity of the sport grew and I noticed more and more folks talking about it before I returned to the States.
Cool! - spreading the good word. I keep hearing Roger Goodell talking about setting up shop in London, so I've been real curious about the perception of the NFL over there. From the small sample here, it sounds like it's generally more of a curiosity than a valid opportunity for a franchise. i'm sure he's got a better research team than i do though.
Quote from: SimeonB on 28 October, 2013, 12:53:03 AM
I wonder if it is like cricket in that it is better to grow up with it and actually play it to get an appreciation of everything that goes on? I find test match cricket fascinating, but that's a different conversation :)
Yes! There was a cricket team in Ely where I lived, and every Sunday I'd take a walk down to the field and sit and watch and try to figure out what the hell was going on, haha.
Quote from: Jo-L on 28 October, 2013, 02:15:38 AM
I don't claim to be an expert on anything btw, I'm just another enthusiastic spectator.
No need for that qualifier dude. I do have a genuine interest in the sport, and I'm much more interested in the opinions of people such as yourself than any professional pundits. Those people's opinions are either patronizing or banal. I've found that to be a universal truth for any sport.
Quote from: Mister Pops on 28 October, 2013, 02:34:57 AM
Quote from: Jo-L on 28 October, 2013, 02:15:38 AM
I don't claim to be an expert on anything btw, I'm just another enthusiastic spectator.
No need for that qualifier dude. I do have a genuine interest in the sport, and I'm much more interested in the opinions of people such as yourself than any professional pundits. Those people's opinions are either patronizing or banal. I've found that to be a universal truth for any sport.
Right on. For what it's worth, i have no understanding how either Cricket or Rugby work. One of these days, I'll have to see if I can digest the rules for those games. I've had Cricket explained to me a couple of times, but I still don't really get it. Rugby looks pretty awesome, but I don't understand that one either.
Quote from: Jo-L on 28 October, 2013, 02:46:23 AM
Quote from: Mister Pops on 28 October, 2013, 02:34:57 AM
Quote from: Jo-L on 28 October, 2013, 02:15:38 AM
I don't claim to be an expert on anything btw, I'm just another enthusiastic spectator.
No need for that qualifier dude. I do have a genuine interest in the sport, and I'm much more interested in the opinions of people such as yourself than any professional pundits. Those people's opinions are either patronizing or banal. I've found that to be a universal truth for any sport.
Right on. For what it's worth, i have no understanding how either Cricket or Rugby work. One of these days, I'll have to see if I can digest the rules for those games. I've had Cricket explained to me a couple of times, but I still don't really get it. Rugby looks pretty awesome, but I don't understand that one either.
If you've any interest in Rugby, I'd be more more than happy to share my meagre knowledge. Rugby is my first love. There are a lot of dark arts in Rugby, particularly around the scrum, but the basics are easy to grasp:
Run forwards, pass backwards.
Here's Jonah Lomu showing how it should be done (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LtHhPlX77A)
Quote from: Mister Pops on 28 October, 2013, 02:57:41 AM
If you've any interest in Rugby, I'd be more more than happy to share my meagre knowledge. Rugby is my first love. There are a lot of dark arts in Rugby, particularly around the scrum, but the basics are easy to grasp:
Run forwards, pass backwards.
Here's Jonah Lomu showing how it should be done (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LtHhPlX77A)
So is there a pro league within the UK? is it a European league? Is it worldwide like (european) football? How professional is it?
The Rugby League World Cup is on at this very moment. Watch the top teams in that and you'll see some skills and brutal power and that version of rugby is easier to understand than Union.
Quote from: COMMANDO FORCES on 28 October, 2013, 04:19:38 AM
The Rugby League World Cup is on at this very moment. Watch the top teams in that and you'll see some skills and brutal power and that version of rugby is easier to understand than Union.
If I had cable I would totally be watching that.
That is a bugger :(
As CF pointed out there are two versions of rugby, league and union. I follow rugby union, rugby league isn't very popular here in Ireland.
We have a professional competition called the Pro12, which includes teams from Wales, Scotland and Italy. England and France have their own competitions, the Premiership and Top 14 respectively. The top teams from these competitions have traditionally played off in the European Cup. This is in jeopardy now, because money.
Now that's just Europe, in the southern hemisphere, particularly New Zealand, it is followed with religious zeal, like no other sport exists.
It only went professional in 1995.
This thread just reminded me of the new Jason Aaron series coming from Image.. From the tumblr account for it looks like American football related: Southern Bastards (http://southernbastards.tumblr.com/)
Quote from: Jo-L on 28 October, 2013, 01:27:57 AM
Most professional NFL players don't have very long careers. I think the average is like 3-5 years. The NFL is ultra-competitive, and the longer you play the harder it is on these guys' bodies.
I know quarterbacks have a longer career, but I guess that's why Tom Brady (Patriots QB folks) is so well respected (but perhaps not universally liked) simply because he has been the QB forever (well, 11 seasons anyway)! Dan Merino went on for ages too. Walter Payton comes to mind as a running back with a fairly long career at the Chicago Bears. Still remember Super Bowl XX. The headline "Massacre" still hurts to this day :)
Thanks for sharing with us,
Jo-L, and for explaining college and high school football. The debate here in Florida at the moment is can the State sustain three NFL teams, when other States have none. It's got to be nice for northern teams to come play here though... 78 degrees F today, folks.. :)
Quote from: SimeonB on 28 October, 2013, 10:08:59 PM
I know quarterbacks have a longer career, but I guess that's why Tom Brady (Patriots QB folks) is so well respected (but perhaps not universally liked) simply because he has been the QB forever (well, 11 seasons anyway)! Dan Merino went on for ages too. Walter Payton comes to mind as a running back with a fairly long career at the Chicago Bears.. Still remember Super Bowl XX. The headline "Massacre" still hurts to this day :)
The superstars tend to play longer, especially quarterbacks - the rules harshly penalize hurting those guys. The league is very cutthroat for the average player though. It doesn't really matter who you are, if you are injured and can't play well, or just aren't cutting it as well as some kid who wants your position, then you're out. There's 53 spots on a team, and there's a lot of attrition year to year.
Quote from: SimeonB on 28 October, 2013, 10:08:59 PM
Thanks for sharing with us, Jo-L, and for explaining college and high school football. The debate here in Florida at the moment is can the State sustain three NFL teams, when other States have none. It's got to be nice for northern teams to come play here though... 78 degrees F today, folks.. :)
3 teams - I'd love to have one. It's pretty rough watching Dolphins games where there's empty seats. Florida has some great college teams though. Florida State, Florida, and Miami are all big time.