2000 AD Online Forum

Spoilers => Prog => Topic started by: Colin YNWA on 22 August, 2022, 06:47:17 PM

Title: Prog 2296 - Making a stand!
Post by: Colin YNWA on 22 August, 2022, 06:47:17 PM
First and formost... and I hate to start on a whine - but who slapped that tagline onto the cover like that. Placement is horrible. Its really kills the image for me - yuck.

Inside... well things don't start great to be honest - but luckly things do get better.

Cadet Dredd - I dunno some stuff happens, its action packed, should be exciting but its all a bit empty. Also at times the art is poor. I'm all for interesting and dynamic takes but that image of Joe leaping page 10 panel 5 is just plain confusing and there are other examples - the crashing through the glass on the next page a prime example. So this is one of the weakest Cadet Dredds I can remember.

Renk - well the art is better but its a giant shoulder shrug of a story for me. I'm not engaged by Renk as a character and that's pretty much a fatal flaw for a strip they pretty much have to carry. I have to be honest I didn't even notice they only had one arm when its explicity stated so that's embarrassing for me. Alas it just goes to show how little I was drawn in!

Future Shocks arh we're finally on a upswing. Loved this one. Steve Roberts art is fun and energetic. The story is a nice playful parable. Nice one - almost the best thing in the Prog...

Which I was expecting to be Department K cos I chuffin' love this thrill but this outing was a little rushed and could have been served with more room to play with the fun idea. The art by Nick Dyer was fantastic however. In moment reminded me of Ian Kennedy a bit. Good but not great.

Unlike 'Splorers which is just perfect Regened. Fun, playful and entertaining. Fantastic yucky story. Loved in and the art was to die for.

So yeah the Prog was a bit hit and miss but over all just about more hit than miss so we'll give it a pass.
Title: Re: Prog 2296 - Making a stand!
Post by: Max Headroom on 22 August, 2022, 07:25:43 PM
How many Regened Progs have we had this year? I thought it was supposed to be just four a year, but it already feels like more. (Not a fan by the way - but I still buy them to show moral support).
Title: Re: Prog 2296 - Making a stand!
Post by: Batman's Superior Cousin on 22 August, 2022, 08:19:30 PM
Quote from: Max Headroom on 22 August, 2022, 07:25:43 PM
How many Regened Progs have we had this year? I thought it was supposed to be just four a year, but it already feels like more. (Not a fan by the way - but I still buy them to show moral support).

This is the third issue this year. Also not a fan of these, but will still read 'em when the postie deigns to deliver them to me (still waiting for this issue to arrive through the letterbox)!!
Title: Re: Prog 2296 - Making a stand!
Post by: broodblik on 23 August, 2022, 03:57:35 AM
Cover by Nick Roche:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FaboWrtX0AEcr_d?format=jpg&name=large)
Title: Re: Prog 2296 - Making a stand!
Post by: broodblik on 23 August, 2022, 03:57:52 AM
Cover and Logo:

(https://www.comicbooknews.co.uk/img/2000AD/2022/2000-AD-Prog-2296-1.webp)
Title: Re: Prog 2296 - Making a stand!
Post by: Tomwe on 23 August, 2022, 02:11:10 PM
Still working my way through. I think Luke Horseman's art has improved, personally, but why is Dredd coloured grey?
Title: Re: Prog 2296 - Making a stand!
Post by: broodblik on 24 August, 2022, 04:27:31 AM
Overall another uninspiring regen prog the exception to the rule is Splorers (really love this and should be with Pandora in every regen prog). Renk one of the new stories does have some protentional. The prog is also known for its glorious art but in this case mostly of the art was just meh.
Title: Re: Prog 2296 - Making a stand!
Post by: Barrington Boots on 24 August, 2022, 11:12:36 AM
I found this one very bland with the exception of Splorers which was an absolute cut above. Lovely cover, but like Colin said, that tagline placement is awful.
Title: Re: Prog 2296 - Making a stand!
Post by: IndigoPrime on 24 August, 2022, 12:30:32 PM
Anyone else not had theirs yet? Very rare for a Prog not to rock up by Wednesday.
Title: Re: Prog 2296 - Making a stand!
Post by: Proudhuff on 24 August, 2022, 01:33:22 PM
Quote from: Colin YNWA on 22 August, 2022, 06:47:17 PM
First and formost... and I hate to start on a whine - but who slapped that tagline onto the cover like that. Placement is horrible. Its really kills the image for me - yuck.

Inside... well things don't start great to be honest - but luckly things do get better.

Cadet Dredd - I dunno some stuff happens, its action packed, should be exciting but its all a bit empty. Also at times the art is poor. I'm all for interesting and dynamic takes but that image of Joe leaping page 10 panel 5 is just plain confusing and there are other examples - the crashing through the glass on the next page a prime example. So this is one of the weakest Cadet Dredds I can remember.

Renk - well the art is better but its a giant shoulder shrug of a story for me. I'm not engaged by Renk as a character and that's pretty much a fatal flaw for a strip they pretty much have to carry. I have to be honest I didn't even notice they only had one arm when its explicity stated so that's embarrassing for me. Alas it just goes to show how little I was drawn in!

Future Shocks arh we're finally on a upswing. Loved this one. Steve Roberts art is fun and energetic. The story is a nice playful parable. Nice one - almost the best thing in the Prog...

Which I was expecting to be Department K cos I chuffin' love this thrill but this outing was a little rushed and could have been served with more room to play with the fun idea. The art by Nick Dyer was fantastic however. In moment reminded me of Ian Kennedy a bit. Good but not great.

Unlike 'Splorers which is just perfect Regened. Fun, playful and entertaining. Fantastic yucky story. Loved in and the art was to die for.

So yeah the Prog was a bit hit and miss but over all just about more hit than miss so we'll give it a pass.

This^^^ says it all, but my additional whine is that font on the cover and final page.   
Title: Re: Prog 2296 - Making a stand!
Post by: Richard on 24 August, 2022, 01:36:57 PM
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 24 August, 2022, 12:30:32 PM
Anyone else not had theirs yet? Very rare for a Prog not to rock up by Wednesday.
Got mine yesterday. There have been Royal Mail staff shortages so late post is to be expected now and then. They're on strike on Friday, so next prog will definitely be late.
Title: Re: Prog 2296 - Making a stand!
Post by: Batman's Superior Cousin on 24 August, 2022, 02:55:37 PM
Quote from: Richard on 24 August, 2022, 01:36:57 PM
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 24 August, 2022, 12:30:32 PM
Anyone else not had theirs yet? Very rare for a Prog not to rock up by Wednesday.
Got mine yesterday. There have been Royal Mail staff shortages so late post is to be expected now and then. They're on strike on Friday, so next prog will definitely be late.
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 24 August, 2022, 12:30:32 PM
Anyone else not had theirs yet? Very rare for a Prog not to rock up by Wednesday.

Plus it's a Bank Holiday next Monday as well!!
Title: Re: Prog 2296 - Making a stand!
Post by: Richard on 24 August, 2022, 04:16:48 PM
This Regened prog is mostly very good. I never expect much from Cadet Dredd, and I haven't read Renk yet. But the Future Shock was entertainingly silly and fun. Department K was alright. And 'Splorers was excellent. No complaints from me.
Title: Re: Prog 2296 - Making a stand!
Post by: Southstreeter on 24 August, 2022, 06:29:36 PM
I thought the Future Shock was going to deliver an interesting message about economics. Surely people would have started offering goods and services at astronomically high rates, people would start spending their money, and after a period of hyperinflation the currency would be devalued and everything would be back to normal, though with the previous wealth having been redistributed.
Title: Re: Prog 2296 - Making a stand!
Post by: Jim_Campbell on 24 August, 2022, 07:39:46 PM
Quote from: Southstreeter on 24 August, 2022, 06:29:36 PM
I thought the Future Shock was going to deliver an interesting message about economics. Surely people would have started offering goods and services at astronomically high rates, people would start spending their money, and after a period of hyperinflation the currency would be devalued and everything would be back to normal, though with the previous wealth having been redistributed.

I think "Don't trust billionaires, they're arseholes" is a much more 2000AD message to deliver to the juves than an educational homily about fiscal policy, if I'm honest.
Title: Re: Prog 2296 - Making a stand!
Post by: Timothy on 24 August, 2022, 08:07:11 PM
I am probably being thick, but didn't get the Agnew Stair joke. Could somebody explain the obvious?
Title: Re: Prog 2296 - Making a stand!
Post by: Funt Solo on 24 August, 2022, 10:24:07 PM
The problem is this: the Regened progs aren't as good as Monster Fun (which is targeted more precisely and has, on the whole, better art). The concept of All-Ages is leaving it as this weird half-way house that doesn't satisfy anyone. Are you trying to attract people using the best art? Then why aren't you using the best art?

I've really tried to be supportive of Regened, but it's a bit of a bummer now. It polarizes readers (but, I suppose, who cares what they think), sits in an odd position between graphic content that requires it be meta-policed in households, breaks up the scheduling of the regular stories into weird chunks and it's about as punk as a Noel Edmonds jumper. Now, with Monster Fun launching itself, why can't Regened go it alone? Let it stand or fall - give it some quality resources. (I think it'd have more chance if it was an entirely new branding, though. Cadet Dredd just seems hobbled by a sort of abortive attempt at maintaining canon through-lines. Didn't Phantom Menace teach us anything?)

A nit to pick: the cover says "five thrilling sci-fi stories inside", but Renk is fantasy.

Joko-Jargo's such a Swap Shop-sponsored Blue Peter-approved twee middle class idea. Original Tharg is and always has been a bit of a d*ck. Joko is all friendly and sanitized. This isn't punk. It's not exciting. It's not 2000 AD. (Well, demonstrably, it is - but it's not adhering to its core values.) Why is he not punishing droids, talking down to the readers and publishing their artwork? It's not regened - it's rebooted. Where the f*ck is Mek-Quake? I thought the worst editorial wrong-foot was the charisma-free Men in Black era, but this drowns all of that in a pool of saccharin ennui.

The Cadet Dredd story is okay, but lots of issues flag up. Given that it's set in the Cursed Earth, we see very little landscape - just a vague sense of spikey crags everywhere. Why does it say there's no city walls, then have us drive out of a gate? Why does it say "sealed", when it should say "built"? Is Huge Grunt's mutation being big? Or having a big right arm? It's not apparent in the flashback sequence. Trying to connect the narratives of a tragic upbringing, beset by persecution with miraculously falling into a pig-sty (and then brushing it all off at the end with a "dem's de breaks") is ... hard not to get distracted by.

So, for a hero in Renk they've opted for a one-armed, grumpy dwarf who hangs out in a seedy bar? I suppose that's punk. Best thing about this is the centaur joke. The story here is good, but it could easily be five pages. The entire conjoined twins dance scene could go, for a start.

The Future Shock has a good pay-off line, but I was distracted by this odd notion that money isn't a form of barter. It's the most efficient form of wide-scale barter humanity's managed to come up with. Barter without money is a pain in the arse. It's why money was invented.

Department K felt like a missed opportunity - why were all the other Estabon's hostile? Crisis of Infinite Estabons is a great title, and a superb high concept, but I don't think this pays off well in the delivery. It felt like something should have been done with the Justice Department Software Updates. Maybe he goes haywire and the other Estabons have to save the day, or..?

'Splorers wins best thing here for having superb art and a solid action story. I preferred the first story, though, where the kids took center stage, and the 'dults were more a sort of foil. It took me *ages* to see the threat in the last panel. Ages. I'll call that my bad.

Do any of the young readers this is trying to adopt have any idea what a Sentenoid is? Also not getting the Agnew Stair joke, even though it's been flagged up as a joke.

Title: Re: Prog 2296 - Making a stand!
Post by: IndigoPrime on 25 August, 2022, 08:27:53 AM
I suspect there are different tactics going on with these comics. We already know Regened bumps sales of the Prog. It also provides launchpads for series later collected in trades. Monster Fun is different in all kinds of ways, although I suspect Rebellion is also going to collect those tales when it's viable to do so.

FWIW, I finally tried out mini-IP on previous Regened. She quite liked it. She wasn't bowled over. Like Monster Fun, there's seemingly something missing for her (or her age group – 8) that she gets from The Phoenix. (Aside from storytelling coherence, I mean.)
Title: Re: Prog 2296 - Making a stand!
Post by: Barrington Boots on 25 August, 2022, 09:01:22 AM
Funt's review really nails it for me. I agree with the 'all ages' thing - as an adult reader the bulk of these is bland and uninteresting, but it always seems to me* that the storytelling and continuity would be a barrier to some younger readers.

Personally I'm always surprised there is less involvement from creators already working in childrens comics. Guys like Tom Paterson or Lew Stringer have been involved in them for decades, yet seem to have been sidelined. As ever I assume there's a market strategy and someone knows what they're doing..

* a guy in his 40s with no children, so ideally placed to comment on kids comics

Title: Re: Prog 2296 - Making a stand!
Post by: broodblik on 25 August, 2022, 09:05:57 AM
B/W Cover:

(https://2000ad.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/thumbnail_NICK-ROCHE-2000AD-Regened-2022-COVER-INKS-Lo-Res-784x1024.jpg)
Title: Re: Prog 2296 - Making a stand!
Post by: Trooper McFad on 25 August, 2022, 09:38:51 AM
Knowing it is aimed at kids and it is way less gritty than the prog, is it just too light hearted?
Just thinking of the content that I enjoyed from the prog back in the early days. And yes it was a different generation. It wasn't the comedy strips that kept you buying it. I feel they are not that far away from getting the balance right and if they take a punt on it as a monthly stand alone they could even push in one or two longer storylines to develop the new characters.

It could definitely be a spring board for future content and as each (successful) character evolves and matures they could make a staring role in the prog.
Title: Re: Prog 2296 - Making a stand!
Post by: IndigoPrime on 25 August, 2022, 11:13:53 AM
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 25 August, 2022, 09:01:22 AMit always seems to me* that the storytelling and continuity would be a barrier to some younger readers.
Depends how young they're aiming. Mini-IP couldn't give a fig about the ongoing strips in The Phoenix when she started reading, but she was really too young anyway. But a bit later, she went back to them and now likes most of them. She's now 8, and reads and devours basically everything in the comic.

That is absolutely not the case with Rebellion output. She finds the storytelling confusing. (This is a kid who has been comics-aware since age 5 and who reads maybe 20 prose library books per month, including books above her age range, and who happily read through all of Bella at the Bar recently.) Perhaps this is just a one-off and other kids are all fine with the comic, but that strikes me as... unlikely. She also tells me she flat-out doesn't like some of the Monster Fun stuff. She can't stand Steel Commando. Leopard from Lime Street has fallen flat. She's also not happy with the frankly outrageous (for 2022) gender imbalance in the comic. (I wrote in about the last of those things; heard nothing back, although that's not unusual with comics.)

Regened, oddly, does better than Monster Fun for her. Perhaps it's because there are more one-offs. I dunno. (Mostly, her feedback is that something is "good" or "OK".) I think she finds Dredd a bit dull, but readable. She doesn't care for the school strips. Some of the others have clicked. But the (in)frequency of both comics means she has zero loyalty to them, unlike with her weekly Phoenix and Beano. She was happy to read the collections, but I don't think subsequently returned to them.

Quote from: Trooper McFad on 25 August, 2022, 09:38:51 AMKnowing it is aimed at kids and it is way less gritty than the prog, is it just too light hearted?
That might be a case of changing tastes and trends. Most of mini-IP's schoolfriends appear to prefer gentler storytelling in TV and comics to what I did in the 1980s. But they will read prose books that are far more sophisticated and much smarter than what I ever had access to. However, again – and sorry to keep banging this drum – The Phoenix might be mostly light-hearted and not bloody – there aren't sharks eating people – but some of those action strips get pretty heavy, with serious consequences. I mean, anyone reading No Country and thinking that's a barrel of throwaway lightweight larks needs to have a word with themselves.

To my mind, Regened has its moments – some of which are great (Pandora!) – but still has a probably impossible to reconcile lead strip (stickler Dredd, who kids largely won't root for, because he's mostly a dick – and even when he's a hero, he's still a dick) and too often lacks a spark and an edge; all this is compounded by it only rocking up every few months. I'm still in favour of the experiment and it must be working, given its continued existence and the collections. But I do wish sometimes it'd get a rocket up the bum. (As for Monster Fun, disappointingly, I think we might be done with that, and I'd so hoped to add a third ongoing to the kid's collection.)
Title: Re: Prog 2296 - Making a stand!
Post by: nxylas on 25 August, 2022, 12:07:23 PM
Quote from: Timothy on 24 August, 2022, 08:07:11 PM
I am probably being thick, but didn't get the Agnew Stair joke. Could somebody explain the obvious?
Oh good, it's not just me. I'm hoping it's some pop cultural reference that us oldies won't get, rather than a joke about Spiro Agnew that will leave the kids mystified.
Title: Re: Prog 2296 - Making a stand!
Post by: Proudhuff on 25 August, 2022, 03:21:01 PM
This^^^ but I couldn't be ersed googling it
Title: Re: Prog 2296 - Making a stand!
Post by: A.Cow on 25 August, 2022, 04:24:17 PM
Quote from: nxylas on 25 August, 2022, 12:07:23 PM
Quote from: Timothy on 24 August, 2022, 08:07:11 PM
I am probably being thick, but didn't get the Agnew Stair joke. Could somebody explain the obvious?
Oh good, it's not just me. I'm hoping it's some pop cultural reference that us oldies won't get, rather than a joke about Spiro Agnew that will leave the kids mystified.

Looks like a possible reference to the US slave-ower, Judge Stair Agnew (see here (http://here|https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R_v_Jones_(New_Brunswick))), although I'm as bemused as the rest of us about the "joke".
Title: Re: Prog 2296 - Making a stand!
Post by: Bad City Blue on 26 August, 2022, 09:19:56 PM
Quote from: A.Cow on 25 August, 2022, 04:24:17 PM


Looks like a possible reference to the US slave-ower, Judge Stair Agnew (see here (http://here|https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R_v_Jones_(New_Brunswick))), although I'm as bemused as the rest of us about the "joke".

My Grud - that's all it can be, as the story is about a slaver.

What a drokkin' AWFUL reference to put in a kids comic, or even an adults one!

Still better than Skip Tracer tho
Title: Re: Prog 2296 - Making a stand!
Post by: IndigoPrime on 27 August, 2022, 11:05:07 AM
So I finally read this one last night. I think 'mixed bag' is probably the best description. The cover is great (although the typography is not – but that's been the case on covers since Pye scarpered), and it, frankly, sets up a better story than what we get. Before we get there, though, we have Joko-Jargo, and I agree that he's an odd choice. It's one area in which I'd have split entirely from 2000 AD's history. Why did it have to be another Tharg?

Cadet Dredd wasn't the worst we've had, but I can't imagine my kid would care about it. The Agnew thing should have been red-pencilled. The twist felt shoe-horned. Dredd's final comment felt like a reference to standard continuity, but coming from a Dredd that absolutely wouldn't have said that in standard continuity. So which is it? If this is a soft reboot, make the strip its own thing. Better: ditch it. Find a different star to helm Regened. (If it's an existing character, Strontium Dog would have been a better bet, judging by the kiddy version we got.) Also: why does Dredd have grey skin?

Renk feels like a missed opportunity. Squint a bit and this strip could be from The Phoenix – and that's a good thing. Its world-building is solid. The art is very nice. The variety of creatures works well. The broad strokes of the storyline worked for me. What I'd have changed: scrap the dance and jump from "not ringing any bells" to Corundum District, with a "someone gave me a lead" caption. Red-pencil the Leofric getting stabbed by nails from what's effectively a home-made nail bomb (I mean, come the fuck on, Tharg – really?). That would have been fine as him getting covered in flour, discombobulated and tied up. And then, the biggie: change the lead. This feels very 1970s: yet another bloke old enough to be a reader's dad. Make Renk a scamp 14-year-old female dwarf (maybe also with a beard – whatever) and it all becomes a bit more interesting. (It would also help deal with Rebellion's ongoing issue that I bang on about in too often seemingly largely giving up on young girls in the readership.)

Next up: Future Shocks. This didn't grab me to the degree it did others. I like it. I thought it could run in the standard Prog. But it feels very much aiming at the top end of the readership and the barter point earlier in this thread is well made. Still, it's mostly smart, it's nicely illustrated, and the twist at the end works very well.

Department K... I agree with Funt. This is such an odd strip, in that it often has really great ideas that are burned through at speed, whereas the full-length story was fairly standard fare. Honestly, this strip could have been a multi-parter. That said, I still enjoyed this. There were some really fun lines ("I know my place, man.") and the ending was amusing.

Finally, 'Splorers was suitably grim. It also has a kind of polish and spark that makes it feel like a good fit for the audience. Again, it feels like something that could run in The Phoenix.

Obviously, Regened shouldn't be The Phoenix. Like Monster Fun, it has to be its own thing. The Beano is old-school rethought, for kids. The Phoenix is, frankly, quite middle class, but has a lot of smarts and variety, from anarchic cartooning to considered and gut-punch action strips like Fawn and No Country. Monster Fun appears to be trying to draw from IPC/Fleetway, in providing a more anarchic alternative to The Beano, and probably a stepping stone to The Phoenix, although, as I've said elsewhere, I'm not sure it's there yet. (Big problems with frequency, storytelling coherence, and gender balance.)

So what is Regened? Again, it clearly works for Rebellion. It must be selling well. We've had four collections now. Perhaps us old farts just don't get it. Maybe the kids do like Cadet Dredd. (Although mine doesn't.) I dunno. Right now, it feels like things are still being through at the wall to see what sticks (which is fine) and the best bits break out into their own series for collection (also fine). But there's a lot of stuff in there that, as a parent of a youngling who gets other comics, makes me just think: why? This issue, Renk was the big one of those. I think it's so close to being a good strip, but why did we need the protagonist to be a middle-aged man? Why did someone not step back and think: you know, maybe we shouldn't have an enemy dispatched by a fucking nail bomb?

It's really frustrating, because of all the Regened issues so far, this one genuinely could have hit it out of the park, with 100% solid strips. For me, three are objectively good. That's not a bad hit rate. One is close. Dredd... well, I think there's no salvaging that version of the character, but someone must like it...

'Splorers > Future Shock = Dept K > Renk > Dredd.
Title: Re: Prog 2296 - Making a stand!
Post by: Funt Solo on 27 August, 2022, 05:44:56 PM
Great review-age, IP. You're making me wonder about two things in the Regened progs: one is gender balance (which feels like it might be fair to middling, but I need to check the data), and the other is the age of the protagonists. I know that in order to appeal to readers, you don't have to mirror them exactly, but common sense (never a great start for an argument) would suggest that some youthful protagonists would play well to a youthful audience. The counter-argument to that is 2000 AD (when I was ten) had no youthful characters at all.

One thing I'm noticing is that where a story starts with a focus on youthful or female protagonists, it tends to swing away again fairly quickly. The first Pandora Perfect had a strong focus on the two kids (with, of course, the set-up mirroring Mary Poppins), but subsequent stories have dropped the youth. Cadet Dredd, on the cover of many of the issues, looks young - but when you read the strip he's often depicted as being about the same size and stature as the adults. Department K opens with the focus on Afua (and it seems as if she will be the lens through which we view the story) but it pretty quickly becomes apparent that's not what's going to be happening. The first 'Splorers opens from the imaginary perspective of Jaina and Jacen, but while they have some narrative voice in the second outing, they are really passengers along for the adults' ride (eventually disappearing from the frames altogether).
Title: Re: Prog 2296 - Making a stand!
Post by: IndigoPrime on 27 August, 2022, 06:15:39 PM
Quote from: Funt Solo on 27 August, 2022, 05:44:56 PMThe counter-argument to that is 2000 AD (when I was ten) had no youthful characters at all.
Although that's the argument of angry balding men on certain Facebook groups who think nothing should ever change. (Note: I'm not for a second suggesting this is you!) Times change. Kids want to see themselves in stories, not who adults think they should see. This is very evident in children's literature. When I was a kid in the 1980s, it was still primarily full of authors wanting to be Enid Blyton (or whatever), writing what they thought a child's parents would find acceptable.

Humour comics had of course long moved on from that by then, most notably with IPC/Fleetway (vs DCT's much more staid approach). Prose books for children, I'm glad to say, are way, way beyond that today. Regened feels... a bit stuck. (It gets part of the way there with young versions of known characters, of course; but they mostly don't tend to work well, which has merely created a separate and new problem.)

On the strips you mention, I'm OK with Pandora Perfect, who comes across as young (even if she isn't) and provides gender balance. Having more kids in the mix now and again might help, but this really does feel like "if it ain't broke" – I wouldn't want to mess with the best thing Regened's created. Dredd, though, is all over the shop and – again – relentlessly comes across as as massive dick. I've never known anything like this in the comics mini-IP reads elsewhere: a protagonist that's a fraction away from "Hey kids: DO WHAT YOU ARE TOLD." Just no. (In the 1970s, Dredd worked because there was this bonkers out of control world and Dredd was a futuristic take on contemporary film characters kids would have wanted to see at the time. That's absolutely not the case with Cadet Dredd.)

What you write on focus, though, really is an interesting observation about the direction of travel. I wonder, in part, if some of this comes from the people writing for the comic not all having enough experience in writing for children's comics, and those producing it also finding themselves dealing with a different space and audience. Or perhaps it's that tendency for primarily male creative teams to end up writing about and drawing themselves. I dunno. It is odd now you mention it though.

Again, I'm supportive of everything Rebellion's doing for kids, in the abstract. But as someone with an 8yo, it kind of breaks my heart that she doesn't give much of a toss about Monster Fun (and that Monster Fun doesn't seem to care much about her either, judging by the tiny page coun of strips helmed by female characters) and that Regened doesn't feel urgent for her either.

(Incidentally, I've not done a count on gender in Regened. From memory, it's certainly better than Monster Fun, which is frankly abysmal for a comic in the 2020s. But I'd be bloody amazed if it's approaching equality. I'll very happily be proven wrong on that, of course.)
Title: Re: Prog 2296 - Making a stand!
Post by: Funt Solo on 27 August, 2022, 06:47:57 PM
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 27 August, 2022, 06:15:39 PM
Quote from: Funt Solo on 27 August, 2022, 05:44:56 PMThe counter-argument to that is 2000 AD (when I was ten) had no youthful characters at all.
Although that's the argument of angry balding men on certain Facebook groups who think nothing should ever change. (Note: I'm not for a second suggesting this is you!)

Ha! I *tried* to be exactly that, but those Negaverse folk don't like it when you talk back. When one of their more precious members made a sweeping, gatekeeper-ish generalization and I went "oh, look - it's a sweeping, gatekeeper-ish generalization" I was immediately admonished by the Frankenhound and then booted for my temerity (with no explanation of what I'd done wrong). They don't like being talked back to, those folk. You're either singing their favorite hymns, like a cap-doffing lickspittle, or you're out.

Oh well - at least I'm still angry and balding.
Title: Re: Prog 2296 - Making a stand!
Post by: Leigh S on 27 August, 2022, 07:16:36 PM
IP sums it up for the most part for me, though I willdefend the idea of Cadet Dredd a bit later, if not the execution(s)

Storytelling competence I think is the biggest barrier - it's not confined to the Regened for me to be honest, though it is often more obvious in the Regened because we are dealing with new concepts and characters and that's always the hardest part to get across

More often thann not, I get the sense of reading small press creators work, sometimes script sometimes art, sometimes both. Anyone who knows me knows I'm a big supporter of the small press, so this is not a criticism of the small press, but of the comic that shouldn't have those sot of teething problems you expect from creators honing their craft.

I's aallways assumed James Peaty was getting regular work in the prog because he could turn out a competent script  - the fact that Skip Tracer is at best "workmanlike" in terms of the end result probably is less of a consideration for an editor who needs reliable content he doesnt ahve time to beat into shape.

But this Dredd was the worst of the Regened as far as I can recall - it tries to hint at continuity (before the wall / mutants an be treated differently) and it does make me think the strip is a summation of what I dont get along with in the REgened - every time is it different - different creators, characters, moods - not bad in itself, except those difference should be in a framework that is confident in what it is trying to achieve on a broader level - it;s missing a Mission Statement.

2000AD has a Mission statement - its anti-authoritarian, its irreverent and its a bit risky in being a bit older than your parents might realise.  None of those things are out of date - if anything, you could argue theres as much space for that now as there has ever been given the state of the world.

If the kids in the 70s didnt get that Dredd was a dick, the kids in the 80s were certainly made aware that was the case, so it shouldnt be a barrier to young people enjoying it - its trying to make him likeable that is messing with the winning formula. 
Title: Re: Prog 2296 - Making a stand!
Post by: Funt Solo on 27 August, 2022, 08:42:04 PM
There's not much science involved in the construction, but here:

(https://i.imgur.com/eI19uoF.png)


I counted things like Finder & Keeper, Department K and 'Splorers as half and half, given that they have a fairly even gender balance of protagonists. Made judgement calls all over the place.
Title: Re: Prog 2296 - Making a stand!
Post by: IndigoPrime on 29 August, 2022, 05:28:04 PM
I had a quick flick through the issues myself, but split them into M/F/mixed. A mixed strip does not necessarily infer equality, but Regened does broadly do reasonably well on this, the odd flub aside. By comparison, by my count the first two Monster Funs had 12–15% female leads, so bear that in mind.

(All numbers rounded, hence not always adding up to 100%.)

2130: M44%/F33%/X22%
2170: M67%/F00%/X33%
2183: M42%/F23%/X35%
2196: M27%/F18%/X56%
2206: M47%/F43%/X11%
2220: M26%/F21%/X53%
2233: M36%/F43%/X21%
2246: M57%/F21%/X21% ('Splorers was overtly female-led in this one, so I put it in that column there.)
2256: M47%/F21%/X32%
2280: M57%/F00%/X43%
2288: M32%/F41%/X27%
2296: M57%/F00%/X43%

Regened does do a lot better than MF and I suspect probably no worse than The Phoenix. Although that's not to say The Phoenix doesn't have a blind spot itself. (I Hate Pixies left me fuming after it initially went all-male cast, bar one female character, who was basically an idiot.) The overall tilt is still male, though, and, again, Renk feels like one that could have made an interesting difference here. Oh well.