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Author Topic: Prog 1988 - Front Toward Enemy  (Read 15483 times)

Southstreeter

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Re: Prog 1988 - Front Toward Enemy
« Reply #45 on: 08 July, 2016, 10:21:00 PM »
I just had to reread Dredd in the light of the above. I must admit I had no idea who Waldron was when Oswin mentioned her on page 3 - I didn't realise that she was the SJS judge (who may have been a psi) who bought it on the previous page. Has she been a frequent recurring character? I do like Mike Carroll's stories, but the supporting cast never seem to imprint themselves on me and I'm always left wondering who these vaguely familiar characters are.

TordelBack

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Re: Prog 1988 - Front Toward Enemy
« Reply #46 on: 09 July, 2016, 02:03:46 AM »
I don't think the Hershey shower needs any explanation =- they want her alive and hopefully cooperative, so they give her some leeway, a regular shower is when she takes her chance. No need for any blood-splatter rationale.

"...take you to your quarters to get you cleaned up" doesn't sound like leeway to me. Plus someone is almost cradling Waldron's head during the 'psychic nosebleed' montage, before she's carted off. It's still not remotely clear to me what's going on in this episode, or why.  And I'm someone who has greatly enjoyed this story this far.

Also, Hershey having  a pop at Oswin over 'pure breeds' seems a bit much- she had to be strongarmed by Dredd into supporting mutant reforms only a few years back. Reforms to a law that saw forced abortions and deportations of citizens because of genetic 'impurity'.

TordelBack

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Re: Prog 1988 - Front Toward Enemy
« Reply #47 on: 09 July, 2016, 09:16:58 AM »
Okay, one non-Proud huff, a night off nights and a jog later, and I realise I'm being an argumentative pillock.  Mike knows how to tell a story, and this has been an especially engaging one, structured across two titles in a fresh and unconventional manner. Me carping on about some things not being spelled out in excruciating detail is just stupid, particularly as we're far from done yet.

I'll turn my ire onto Black Shuck instead. I recently read all of Storm Warning thanks to the 50p sale, and I thought it was excellent: story, setting, characters, art, design, the works. It too deals with double-edged curses and English folklore albeit in a more pop-culture milieu, and it proves Moore and Reppion can really deliver for the House of Tharg. So why is Black Shuck cozying up to Dry Run in my mental filing system? Dull, confusing, leaden dialogue, endless exposition that never goes anywhere... is it the 6-page format that's throwing them off? He's a cursed Viking werewolf with a pregnant Queen in 10th C Mercia FFS - the thrills should write themselves!

Jim_Campbell

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Re: Prog 1988 - Front Toward Enemy
« Reply #48 on: 09 July, 2016, 10:07:08 AM »
I'm thoroughly bemused that people are finding this episode of Dredd confusing. Psi comes under attack. Asks control if it's an isolated incident. Control says yes; cut to montage of other psis being attacked to make the point that control is lying.
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Proudhuff

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Re: Prog 1988 - Front Toward Enemy
« Reply #49 on: 09 July, 2016, 10:21:32 AM »
I'm thoroughly bemused that people are finding this episode of Dredd confusing. Psi comes under attack. Asks control if it's an isolated incident. Control says yes; cut to montage of other psis being attacked to make the point that control is lying.

This^^^

also the gun hand over was totally clear to me, we're at a level of storytelling where we don't need Archers style intros everytime some one speaks, I thought the accent comment cleared up who it was immediately.

TB don't take my name in vain!  ;) and jog more...
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TordelBack

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Re: Prog 1988 - Front Toward Enemy
« Reply #50 on: 09 July, 2016, 11:02:23 AM »
I'm thoroughly bemused that people are finding this episode of Dredd confusing. Psi comes under attack. Asks control if it's an isolated incident. Control says yes; cut to montage of other psis being attacked to make the point that control is lying.

And is Waldron a psi? And if the 'screamer' is one in a billion, who's targeting the other psis? And why does Hershey need to be 'cleaned up'? Like I said, I'm now happy enough to be confused, in expectation of everything making sense eventually, and acknowledging that we don't need to be spoon-fed very detail... but I'm still confused!

TordelBack

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Re: Prog 1988 - Front Toward Enemy
« Reply #51 on: 09 July, 2016, 11:25:18 AM »
At the very real risk of turning into S**j*, I'm going to argue with myself again... Re-reading the previous episodes AGAIN I see why Hershey might have needed that shower: she has a tussle with some Texans, leading to Oswin telling Tower to 'take her down to Med'. Now the art doesn't show her taking any damage, but then the fight is only a few panels, so there could have been off-panel blows.  Next we see her, she's back with Oswin and the Council, presumably fixed up but still sweaty/bloody. Hence the shower. In terms of the story, her being escorted to Med Div and her quarters emphasises the degree to which she is being controlled and monitored.

Jim_Campbell

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Re: Prog 1988 - Front Toward Enemy
« Reply #52 on: 09 July, 2016, 11:59:17 AM »
And is Waldron a psi? And if the 'screamer' is one in a billion, who's targeting the other psis?

I didn't infer that all that the psis were being targetted by screamers. They might have been, they might not have been. There are some rather ominous-looking Tex-judges lurking behind Lewis at the end of her scene that suggest a fairly broad approach might be in operation. I assumed Waldron was a psi, but I don't see any significance in this, other than to have someone affected in the same room as Hershey.
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Frank

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Re: Prog 1988 - Front Toward Enemy
« Reply #53 on: 09 July, 2016, 12:12:20 PM »

I can't remember any other judge in any other department being a psi. Psis all seem to end up in Psi Division.

Like I said above, I think it's a really interesting idea to have Psi judges in the SJS, but introducing that idea probably deserves more than one (ambiguous) panel.

Finding out Waldron was/may have been a psi only after she died felt a bit cursory. Apart from anything else, it would have worked better on a narrative level if Waldron's psi status had already been established.



TordelBack

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Re: Prog 1988 - Front Toward Enemy
« Reply #54 on: 09 July, 2016, 12:37:19 PM »
Waldron isn't dead. Oswin 'hopes' she will recover.

TordelBack

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Re: Prog 1988 - Front Toward Enemy
« Reply #55 on: 09 July, 2016, 12:45:59 PM »
Further, SJS is one division that people do seem to transfer in and out of. Buell and Garcia, for example: both street judges,chit they ended up running the SJS. So why not a Psi, especially when that dept is already largely discredited? As Butch says, it seems like too interesting an idea to drop into a singlr panel in an already frothy mix, but maybe this kind of throwaway thread is what the strip needs more of.

A.Cow

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Re: Prog 1988 - Front Toward Enemy
« Reply #56 on: 09 July, 2016, 02:25:39 PM »
So why not a Psi, especially when that dept is already largely discredited?

Makes perfect sense that SJS would need their own Psi(s) for dealing with Psi Division judges gone bad.

Proudhuff

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Re: Prog 1988 - Front Toward Enemy
« Reply #57 on: 09 July, 2016, 02:31:42 PM »
 I like it when a writer puts more than one idea per story, it was the kinda thing that early 2k was great at and the whole edifice built on, as John Wagner says about the dummy/commentator in Mean Arena became The Ventriloquist during his turn on Batman.

I would suggest that the Car-Roll droid picks up loads of these loose threads and ties them up, which is great for fanboys.
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IndigoPrime

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Re: Prog 1988 - Front Toward Enemy
« Reply #58 on: 09 July, 2016, 03:13:53 PM »
I'm thoroughly bemused that people are finding this episode of Dredd confusing. Psi comes under attack. Asks control if it's an isolated incident. Control says yes; cut to montage of other psis being attacked to make the point that control is lying.
And this after it was noted staff in control were being replaced by Texans.

Frank

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Re: Prog 1988 - Front Toward Enemy
« Reply #59 on: 09 July, 2016, 04:25:08 PM »

This is turning into a weird, two-speed discussion. Kind hearted people keep patiently explaining that Oswin is a wrong un', and is eliminating psis as part of her plan to take over Megacity One. Thank you, but everyone understood that on their first read [1].

What's being discussed is whether Waldron was one of the psis being eliminated; whether she is a psi at all; whether that's been established previously; and whether there's any precedent for psis in SJS, or if that's new information Mike Carroll is dropping on us.

I'll be honest and admit I don't remember Waldron at all [2]. I'm sure I remember us having a discussion about what happened to Buell, which probably means someone wrote a story where his seat on the council had been taken by Waldron. Sector Zero?


[1] Pretentious toss follows: There's an Ernest Hemingway short story called Cat In The Rain, which can be summarised as follows: bored woman wants cat, gets cat. The whole critical debate about the story centres around whether the cat that's brought to the woman at the end of the tale is the same cat she saw from her window, and which provoked her longing. Basically, what well meaning people are doing here is explaining that the woman gets a cat, whereas what's being discussed is the identity of the cat and what difference that makes to our reading of the story.

[2] It doesn't help that Waldron is one of four senior level, female Justice department employees sporting a sleek, black, mid-length bob.