The Political Thread

[TordelBack]

You're preaching to the choir re: taxation, my point was rather that if you were to successfully head down Sharky's alternative path this unfairness wouldn't be addressed for a long time, and while acknowledging the contradictions he raised,  I'm in the take-whatever-little-victories camp these days

[Funt Solo]

Yeah, it's only fucking Voltaire again, innit?

Dans ses écrits, un sage Italien
Dit que le mieux est l'ennemi du bien.

[The Legendary Shark]

I.P., it feels like every time I point out what I believe is a serious fault which is emblematic of the deeper systemic flaws, your counter- argument is something like, "Utopia is impossible so shut up."

Just because you don't like my solutions because we can't use them tomorrow or that they won't work in isolation (both of which points I agree with), that doesn't address my concerns. It would be as pointless as me calling you out on your "perfect government system" because I'm pretty sure you don't believe that any more than I believe in the "perfect anarchist system."

The basic problem, as I see it, is the system's monopoly on violence, of which mandatory, enforced taxation is a symptom. That's all. Agree with it or not. Solutions are a completely different conversation which we cannot have until we first recognise whether what I see as a problem actually is a problem, its extent and its consequences.

[Funt Solo]

To be fair, one might retort that whenever anyone mentions anything at all, however remote to the topic, you bang the drum for anarchy.

Women shouldn't be allowed to escape period poverty because ... anarchy is better? Or something.

Feel free to ignore me, though, because I feel like an idiot for biting. Again. (Not your responsibility how I feel, I know, I know.)

[The Legendary Shark]

Guilty as charged.

But then... You seriously, I mean seriously, believe my argument is "Women shouldn't be allowed to escape period poverty"?

Well, I refute that position utterly.

[Funt Solo]

That's fair - you just said that it wouldn't be free.

[IndigoPrime]

I think I just get triggered when arguments veer towards "I shouldn't be compelled to pay for that" when it comes to progressive ideas and thinking. Ideally, people would do what's necessary for a functioning society in which people aren't left behind. I think we're in agreement on that, TLS.

[The Legendary Shark]

It's cool.

I'll get the beers in.

[TordelBack]

One of the interesting truisms of the current covidfuck is the extent to which all systems depend FAR more on voluntary compliance than they do on coercion. It simply isn't possible for most states to enforce regulations that don't have broad support: even the Shark's implicit threat of violence needs the consent of a significant proportion of people to be enforceable.

Which is both hopeful for the future and depressing for the present, in roughly equal measure.

[The Legendary Shark]

Don't underestimate the power of the mainstream media on the masses. All that fear constantly pumping out has a widespread effect, on the spirit if not the mind - but I fear it's both.

When I was a teenager, I lived in a caravan in our back yard for a while. On about my third or fourth night in there, my Gran came rushing out in her dressing gown, in a right state. She was in fear for my life because the tv news had just reported that a murderer had escaped. In London (we live in Lancashire, between Southport and Preston). Televisual hyperbole overrode her own usually sound common sense. I've never forgotten that.

[TordelBack]

Televisual hyperbole overrode her own usually sound common sense. I've never forgotten that.

An ever-wider problem. But ultimately the same cognitive potential that allows people's minds to be manipulated by media also allows for people to change their own minds.

[The Legendary Shark]

Absolutely.

It's not the tool, it's how it's used.

[Funt Solo]

Coming back over to recent discussions about creator rights (sparked by the always correct Mr. P. Mills of Europe Hulking out on his FaceTwatterSpace-igramTokTube), I noticed this article: Netflix removes Dave Chappelle's show after comedian's complaint, in which the creator signed a contract when desperate that they've now come to regret as it entirely disenfranchises them.

[JayzusB.Christ]

I'm genuinely wondering, given that my political knowledge isn't all that thorough, what will happen to the GOP now.  Given that it seems to have become a sort of cult of personality, with so many of its members torn between loyalty to / fear of Trump, and unhitching themselves from the election loser.  I mean, Bush Jnr was a nasty little buffoon too, but he didn't throw the whole democratic system into crisis like Trump has done.  Yeah, he got more votes than any election loser in history, but he's still a loser.

So, where now for the Republicans?  Not really a rhetorical question; I'm just wondering if any of you who are more clued-in than me have any speculations.

[Jim_Campbell]

So, where now for the Republicans?  Not really a rhetorical question; I'm just wondering if any of you who are more clued-in than me have any speculations.

At some point they're going to have to deal with the fact that the die-hard MAGA crowd are Trump-supporters first and Republicans second... which may well cost the GOP the Senate run-off elections in GA, and that would be hilarious because:

1) it would give a tied Senate, with Kamala Harris having the casting vote, but...

2) ...the Democrats would have to rely on the votes of two independents, one of whom is Bernie Sanders who, I imagine, will have a very interesting set of demands in exchange for his support.