Doctor Who (13th Doctor)

[Leigh S]

It is possible that make less sense than Praxeus, but had a large enough, powerful enough macguffin to gloss over most of the issues that you might have - not sure why the Cyberium was helping Shelley /how Shelley was able to use it, but maybe a rewatch might make that clear

Only real bugbear is emotional cyberman again - just because Alan Moore did it, people - has no one learnt that lesson yet....?

Not sure what it added to have him stomping about in a grump - the big thing Cybermen have going for them is the lackof emotion, but time and again it's ignored/subverted.  I guess it was to make them more Frankenstein's Monstery?  But I think it would have worked better with a standard type!

Still, Cyberleader rating: "Excellent!" *clenches fist*

[Tiplodocus]

That was great. Sapphire and Steel first half with Doctor Who second half.

[Colin YNWA]

Yep that was excellent. This really has been the series of two halves. There is so much to tidy up though! Really intrigued to find out how they'll do it.

[von Boom]

We almost made it through the entire episode without a lecture, but then Chibbers pulled it out.

It was still a pretty good episode, though. The best so far of this series. Yas and Ryan weren't even that annoying. I hope the last episodes are at least as good and hopefully better.

[IndigoPrime]

I kind of forgot that we're in short season mode with DW, and so only the two-parter left. My guess: part one will be great and part two will be pap, as is traditional.

I'm glad we've seen some properly great episodes during this series – the previous one was often good, but rarely beyond that. But it really is the most uneven production, and it needn't be. Or perhaps the series should be shorter, with some kind of magic wand banishing the pap. Remove the dreck that was Orphan 55 and the rubbish Praxeus, and you still have some middling stuff (Spyfall, Part 2/Tesla), but the series as a whole would look a lot more solid.

[Leigh S]

yeah, drop Praxeus and Orphan 55 and have another double, so you get a traditional 6 stories spread over 9 episodes?

3 single parters and 3 doubles, each 55 minutes to an hour to make up for the missing episode (maybe - not sure how long they run at the minute, but 5 minutes each extra would do them the world of good).

Probably give the extra episode to the Eternals one and have the cliffhanger the Doctor freeing the one and realising their mistake, with a second episode of putting it right in some properly clever way (I dont recall how they did it, which is not a good sign).

That would free up a lot of writing room, surely?  Two less stories to have to come up with, nurse along the entire production process

[Dandontdare]

This article nails it: https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2020/feb/19/the-diehards-of-doom-why-doctor-who-is-the-show-fans-love-to-hate

[IndigoPrime]

See also fandom reaction to 2000 AD (bar, perhaps, the objectively crappy period around the 800s for a few years).

[Dandontdare]

See also fandom reaction to 2000 AD (bar, perhaps, the objectively crappy period around the 800s for a few years).

Indeed - one of the comments below the article is:

FitzHat 26m ago
This is a perennial problem of fandom. If you want real bile, check out what some comics fans say and write.

My other favourites scattered amongst the largely  reasonable debate are:

MMSD81 29m ago
i hate it cos its shite, no other reason

and

issingM 36m ago
It was SO much better in the future

[Leigh S]

Though presumably to follow the logic, we should have rah-raheed that era? 

When he talks about fans complaining when it is complicate dand complaining when it is simple, it's likely a large majority of these people are not the same people - sure there is an uncomfortably large rump of gammons and never pleased, but  if all criticism is made null by the worst of the critics, then Mother Earth is objectively as good as the Cursed Earth, Dead Meat as good as The Dead Man?

As he points out, Chibbers was chief amongst the "MM"s - I'd give him a bit more credit if he didnt backtrack (or at least qualified his not unreasonable distaste for that Era)

See also fandom reaction to 2000 AD (bar, perhaps, the objectively crappy period around the 800s for a few years).

[Dandontdare]

Though presumably to follow the logic, we should have rah-raheed that era? 

The point is that fans complain during EVERY era!

[Leigh S]

I get that, but does that mean there is no point in criticism?  that all are equally as successful so long as there is a core of people who still like it?

Though presumably to follow the logic, we should have rah-raheed that era? 

The point is that fans complain during EVERY era!

[Dandontdare]

I get that, but does that mean there is no point in criticism?  that all are equally as successful so long as there is a core of people who still like it?

Though presumably to follow the logic, we should have rah-raheed that era? 

The point is that fans complain during EVERY era!

Nah, just that Whovians are a bunch of bloody whingers! 

[Colin YNWA]

I get that, but does that mean there is no point in criticism?  that all are equally as successful so long as there is a core of people who still like it?

Though presumably to follow the logic, we should have rah-raheed that era? 

The point is that fans complain during EVERY era!

Nah, just that Whovians are a bunch of bloody whingers! 

Have you seen 2000ad Facebook pages!

[shaolin_monkey]

I get that, but does that mean there is no point in criticism?  that all are equally as successful so long as there is a core of people who still like it?

Though presumably to follow the logic, we should have rah-raheed that era? 

The point is that fans complain during EVERY era!

Nah, just that Whovians are a bunch of bloody whingers!