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Author Topic: 2000 AD Sci-Fi Special 2021  (Read 4887 times)

Barrington Boots

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Re: 2000 AD Sci-Fi Special 2021
« Reply #15 on: 09 July, 2021, 04:58:19 PM »
I'm actively put off this through the inclusion of Chopper, but it's part of wider issue for me that Proudhuff mentioned above.

2000ad can't have it both ways - either Dreddworld characters age, something we used to be so proud of, or they stay evergreen for all time like Spiderman or Bruce Wayne. Hershey and Dredd getting old is good, but if Anderson doesn't as well, what's the point?  Chopper must be how old now, 50? 60? We fudge it on Dredd and Waugh has an excuse, but how old is Armitage for goodness sake?
Now I don't mind if we want to take the stance that these are comic characters and don't age, but if so that should be a blanket decision because to have Beeney growing up and becoming a full judge all whilst Anderson is still in her 20s is stupid.
I'd read a story about Chopper battling to overcome his middle aged male angst and expanding waistline, but not one where he's 'classic' Chopper messing about on his surfboard*. IMO he shouldn't be anywhere near any Dredd stories now**

Anyway, that's my Friday afternoon moan. It sounds like an ambitious idea from the creative team on this and there's some great artists involved so I hope it's a belting read.

* In fairness to the authors this might happen, I haven't read it
** Part of this is because he died in SotS anyway, but let's ignore that for a minute
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Funt Solo

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Re: 2000 AD Sci-Fi Special 2021
« Reply #16 on: 09 July, 2021, 06:55:43 PM »
Yeah, Chopper would be around 50-60, assuming he was in his teens when we first met him in 2103. While he's physically fit in the SFS story (and we can argue that in the future you would be fitter when older, and we can argue that he's been involved with some magic dream-time things that give him more energy - he says this in the strip, actually), his face does look age-appropriate, gaunt and a bit wrinkled:

https://i.imgur.com/qmX143U.png


Armitage's age is also part of the script provided - he finds it difficult to stand and people ask if his memory's okay. Anderson is also presented as a mature woman, in strip.

The cover doesn't quite reflect the contents, to be fair.
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Funt Solo

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Re: 2000 AD Sci-Fi Special 2021
« Reply #17 on: 09 July, 2021, 06:57:12 PM »
Gargleblast! I meant to actually post the image:



Why does the edit-post feature only show up sometimes, and not others, I wonder?
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Barrington Boots

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Re: 2000 AD Sci-Fi Special 2021
« Reply #18 on: 09 July, 2021, 07:00:02 PM »
Cheers Funt. I'm delighted to be proved wrong tbh. Disregard my moans everyone!
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Funt Solo

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Re: 2000 AD Sci-Fi Special 2021
« Reply #19 on: 09 July, 2021, 07:14:48 PM »
I'm going to be contrary, though, and also agree with you. 2000 AD does rather have it's cake and eat it. It set up what seemed like an edgy conceit way back in the mists (Dredd ages in real-time), but at a point in time when none of the creators could assume that the comic would survive more than a few years.

Of course, this allows wonderful things like characters who start out as children but then grow up (as with Beeny), but on the flip-side, you don't want to age-out your successful characters, because they're your f*cking IP, man!

Oh, there's no way Mario would still be working as a plumber after all this time. Oh well, then. Never mind that we could release yet another Mario game and make millions - let's just shelve it because it's not realistic. Yeah...not going to happen, is it?

I notice that in Regened, it's clear we have to distinguish between Dredd and Cadet Dredd, but with Anderson - who cares? There's no clear indication with the Regened Anderson that she's any older or younger than most of her regular prog appearances.

I'm not really going to reach a conclusion, here. It's just that popular IP is worth something, and so is having a believable world that moves through time. How long it can be fudged to keep the merry-go-round spinning, I don't know. In all likelihood, it's the long-term readership that's going to age out (in reality) long before the valuable IP gets shelved in favor of consistent fictional world timing.
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Barrington Boots

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Re: 2000 AD Sci-Fi Special 2021
« Reply #20 on: 09 July, 2021, 08:49:28 PM »
Totally agree and my original point stands, it just seemed a but churlish of me to moan about it on this thread. I do think a real-time-aging world is a valuable and unique thing in comics but do think its going to be fudged out of existence more or less, which is a shame but as you say, IP. If that is going to happen I'd.prefer full on abandonment than the half life we have now, but I think you're right about the readership.

Excellent point also about Anderson in Regened. Apart from a couple of notable series she's been portrayed as the same age throughout.
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Richard

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Re: 2000 AD Sci-Fi Special 2021
« Reply #21 on: 10 July, 2021, 01:09:37 AM »
Neil Googe has come a long way. His art in this is fantastic.

Totally agree about Robin Smith.

I think the theme and structure of this special is an excellent idea. Might not be suitable for new readers though, since the stories don't really introduce the characters to people who are not familiar with them.

broodblik

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Re: 2000 AD Sci-Fi Special 2021
« Reply #22 on: 10 July, 2021, 04:42:09 AM »
The thing about age in the characters is that they might be using an anti-aging drug or something and someone forgot to mentioned it to us. For some reason I do not care in comics the age/race or even sex of the characters it has always been about the story.
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Tjm86

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Re: 2000 AD Sci-Fi Special 2021
« Reply #23 on: 10 July, 2021, 10:43:31 AM »
Sci Fi specials have always been mixed bags.  A combination of somewhat variable artwork and mediocre stories interspersed with some real gems.  Twas ever thus.

The idea of a single story running through the whole special is an interesting one.  Some of the critiques are valid, there were parts that did not really seem to move the whole story along in any meaningful sense.

As for setting up future Dreddworld tales, it felt a little like there was the pulling together of threads that we've seen for a while now.  The legitimacy of the Judge system, environmental issues, the effect of these issues on everyday folks ...

I'm not sure the anthropomorphisation of the environmental dimension was the best way to go and I wouldn't be too surprised if that aspect was quietly dropped over time.  I might be wrong though.

Overall this was one of the better specials though for my money.

norton canes

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Re: 2000 AD Sci-Fi Special 2021
« Reply #24 on: 10 July, 2021, 11:48:44 AM »
Not sure I'd agree that Anderson is 'sexualised' anywhere here. I mean perhaps you could say she was sitting provocatively astride her bike in her first frame in 'All Will Be Judged' but this is comics, characters are allowed a little licence to strike a mildly racy pose now and again. As for the aging thing; well, Anna Morozova's artwork (and the colouring of Pippa Bowland) leaves every characters' face pretty smooth, and Anderson certainly isn't depicted as a juve, so I reckon there's plenty of scope to imagine she's all of her, what, 60-odd years, factoring in some 22nd century anti-aging methods. In fact my main issue with Morozova's depiction is that the long face doesn't make her look quite like Anderson at all... but there you go.

norton canes

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Re: 2000 AD Sci-Fi Special 2021
« Reply #25 on: 10 July, 2021, 12:19:59 PM »
As for the special overall... it's a nice conceit that works well in the first few chapters but loses its way slightly towards the end - 'All Will Be Judged' is a bit by-numbers and 'Apotheosis' perhaps devolves into too much of a slug-fest. The highlights are definitely Tom Foster's brilliantly gangly Chopper (I know), having Robin Smith back, and Neil Googe's turn on Hondo-Cit.

Funt Solo

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Re: 2000 AD Sci-Fi Special 2021
« Reply #26 on: 10 July, 2021, 03:48:21 PM »
There's an Anderson story where she explains that Psi-Judges can't use anti-aging drugs or techniques because it messes with their psi-powers. (Not that one particular story should necessarily be forever-canon.)
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Tomontherun94

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Re: 2000 AD Sci-Fi Special 2021
« Reply #27 on: 10 July, 2021, 07:41:31 PM »
Yeah they shot themselves in the foot a bit with the whole "Psis can't rejuve" thing. My stupid headcanon is that Anderson subconsciously nudges people's perception of her age by a decade or two, depending on her state of mind

SmallBlueThing(Reborn)

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Re: 2000 AD Sci-Fi Special 2021
« Reply #28 on: 10 July, 2021, 07:56:24 PM »
My biggest problem with these Rebellion era Sciffy Speshes is that they don't *look* all that special. Being the same size and feel as the regular prog, they kind of get lost on the shelf. If it had been the same dimensions as the Buster & Cor specials over the last couple of years, it would have jumped put a bit more. They also seem to be (excuse me, Mr Carroll) a bit of a tester for upcoming talent- relatively few of which I (speaking personally as very definitely not an editor of a popular and long lived comics anthology) often think could do with a few more pages under their belt before going pro.

This one, with Mr Carroll's hand on the storytelling wheel, felt more 'together' than most, but the different approaches throughout kind of hamstrung it for me. I can't quite put my finger on what felt off, but something did.
Maybe it needed bigger paper, a crossword, a centrespread poster and some pictures of sand castles.

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Tjm86

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Re: 2000 AD Sci-Fi Special 2021
« Reply #29 on: 11 July, 2021, 07:48:02 AM »
I do get the point in some respects SBT.  Specials of yesteryear were a bit like the annual in that they had all sorts of other bits and pieces in them. 

Whether it was something on the latest event in the Space Race or the latest SF / Fantasy film, a smattering of book reviews or (as you say) a puzzle piece, it was always a bit of a mixed bag.

Then again, given how dated most movie information is by the time it hits print or the different audience that Rebellion aims for, ... Would it still work the same way?

As for the talent-testing dimension, again it's worth looking back through some of the older specials at the variability of the artwork. 

My big problem is that it didn't quite click until part way through that the special was going for a single story told in multiple 'chapters'.  So in some respects the first 'chapter' didn't really do the job of establishing the narrative that clearly.

Adding in, as we've already mentioned, the rather tenuous connection of one or two chapters to the overarching tale further hampered the impact.

The last chapter did a better job of landing the story and pulling the threads together.  That plus leaving open the possibilities in future tales.  So overall it did a passable job.