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Some excellent points there Cthulouies... many I agre with despite coming at the show from a different demigraph to you. I guess I am in the group that will try and explain away the logical flaws etc, tho that doesn't mean I dont always spot them... hust that I don't let the flaws dictate my enjoyment of any given episode, if i've enjoyed the majority of stuff. I guess it's the glass helf full/glass half empty approach to life.

You're right about 60's Who getting these sort of awards, and quite often, the same sort of critisism too, especially fom those that preffered "high-brow" sci-fi (I remember Sydney Jordan panning the series for ot being si-fi at all, and I think Alan Moore held similar views).

Alan!

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For me, that's a blessed relief. RTD is doing just fine fucking up Who with his revamp, the show really doesn't need Torchwood adding to its misery."

Yeah, coz all those awards and high viewing figures are really bith aren't they?!

"And there was some mention in Episode 1 that Torchwood Four has disappeared. I guess it's not just Buffy that RTD is enamoured with"

I got that as a direct homage (something RTD does a lot).

The one line I thought really stood out in the series was "I show you something fantastic, and you just criticize!"

Never was a truer word spoken imho.

Alan!

Oh, get you, and I do admit that the production team do sometimes go down the easy route, but I didn't think last nights Torchwood, nor (to a degree) the 2nd episode did this. The one thing I do think they do is often not explain thingsvery well, leaving the viewer confused. Mind you, some viwers need hitting over the head with a brick (like the guy who complained at never finding out why the clockwork robots were after Madam de Pompadour in Girl In The Fireplace).

And this approach may leave you cold, and it is each to their own, but these are 2 of the best watched shows we are producing now. Of course, figures only reflect popularity and not quality, but this does prove that a lot of people do like the approach to the show(s), and as that's the audiance they're aiming at, then the shows are succesful (just not for you).

Alan!

Heh, I was just pulling your leg Paul(you'll get my sense of humour one day). You are, of course, entitled to your opinion, which is as valied as mine. What works for me doesn't necessarily work for others. As i've said before, Torchwood isn't perfect, but I do honestly believe it's the best British show currently on tv (and as I hate most U.S. stuff that's a big recommendation).

It's fastly paced, exciting, doesn't take itself too seriously, has humour, without mocking it's audience,and has charm and emotion. The show looks good and feels good, and the lead characters are engaging, at least for me. It is sci-fi drama for the mainstream(not series sci-fi, which wouldn't be watched by joe public), so unbelievable elements and situations are a given, and if they have to go down the old technobabble escape route oncee in a while, then fine by me. As I said, not perfect but it's far from crap.

IMHO obviously!  ;)

Alan!

Y'know Larf. I think you've put my thougts on Torchwood into words perfectly. The series can improve, I for one have never said it couldn't, but it is far from awful.

Alan!

"I was busy drunklypainting a model Avro 504K biplane"


Ah, so that's why you never like anything. You don't actually sit and watch them. Just look up occassionally and decide if you like what you see or not!  ;)

"just in case watching Torchwood wasn't geeky enough"

Is Doctor Who and Torchwood considered Geeky now? Aren't they both pretty mainstream? I know lots of non-sci-fi people that watch both shows.

"Torchwood really is a load of crap, but it's crap enough to be entertaining in a sort of swearing at the telly sort of a way"


You might change your mind if you actually sit and watch an episode!  ;p

Nope... gotta disagree. It's not the greatest thing ever, but I do think Torchwood is about the best show on tv at the moment (Royal Family specials and classic Avengers episodes notwithstanding). Still room for improvment but it is heading in the right direction at the moment.

"Boyfriend is still doomed. Gwen will end up with no social life just like the rest."

Oh... definitly. He could be wearing a red Star Trek shirt!

"For an adult spin off of Dr Who (still one of the worst ideas ever) all the use of sex, guns and swearing seems somehow more irrepsonisbile as it is still a kids show, aimed at kids"

Sort of agree here, although there were guns in Doctor Who (all those UNIT soldiers) and this week's was better for that fact there wasn't any swearing or sex (tho there was sexuality).

You can tell me to fuck off again now!  :)

Alan!

Well I know I am. Guess beauty really is in the eye of the beholder.

If you were bored by then, guess Torchwood isn't the show for you.

Alan!

I think Eve Myles is "well fit" and a superb actress, so obviously I ain't gonna agree with you at all. I thought much of the casting was spot on, especially Barrowman & Myles, and most of the support cast was much better this time round.

The sexual tension is a developing thread in the show.

Never seen Hustle so can't comment, but given the subject matter of last night's Torchwood, I for one wasn't expecting a comedy, but I did see loads of charm, especially in the scenes where Gwen relives some of her fondest memories with her boyfriend.

Answering my own question on writer, it was Helen Raynor.

And anyone else spot that the main baddie was played by Gareth (Blakes 7) Thomas?

Alan!

Personally I thought Sunday was a great tv night.

Royal Family was superb, tho of course the "death" was obvious from the start, although that didn't spoil the impact of the show. Like PVS said, comebacks very rarely work, but this was just everything it should be. A genuine classic show!

Torchwood, I thought was very good this week. Had a "Life on Mars" feel to it (probably down to the subject matter), did anyone notice who wrote this episode? I'll tell you one thing I noticed tho. I don't remember one bit of swearing in the episode, proving that adult shows don't have to have bad language to get across, and also dispelling some of my reservations of the first two episodes. Now very much looking forward to next weeks!

Alan!

Nope... you're not the only one. I too enjoyed it. Not saying there isn't room for improvment (coz there is) but as a whole, I thought the first too eps were more than watchable and will certainly be back for more next week.

Alan!

I just don't see that he does. Why tell everyone what's going to happen with Jack. Let's just wait and see.

Alan!

Actually, I was thinking the opposite. RTD is hardly gonna tell everyone what happens at the end of both this series of Torchwood, and the 3rd Who series, just to appease some fanboy who's worried about continuity, is he? We get enough program's spoiled by the press as it is, without the actual makers doing so.

Oh, and Jack's back from the future, and back on our screens! Seems pretty obvious to me!  ;)

Alan!

Oh, indeed Paul. I do have reservations myself. A Doctor Who 2 really isn't what I want, but for different reasons to you and Jimbo. I hope the show has it's own identity but feel we should wait until it's shown before judging it. I'm certainly not saying that because I think Who is great, then this will be great. There have been spinoffs of shows i've liked in the past that i've found quite poor, so i'm certainly taking nothing for granted. The show does however features creative talent i've enjoyed previously, so i'm cautiously optimistic.

Alan!

Oh, i'm not dragging it all up again Jimbo but yeah, that was the impression I got from you. Sorry if I read you wrong.

I have seen Fear Her... really didn't like it. Some good ideas, badly executed imo (see, I don't hold the show above critisism). I actually mentioned the episode on the Life On Mars thread as being a major disappointment to me, as it was an episode I was especially looking forward to (due to the writer, as I like Life on Mars - except the football hooligan episode, but I digress) but I really wasn't keen. Didn't like the Peter Kay one that much either, nor the New Earth episode (tho did like the Romera homages). For the most part tho I loved the series, tho as a whole prefered the 9th Doctor one, especially the Peter Moffat episode (that's not a dig at you either Paul) and indeed, even some of the RTD stuff! ;)

Wh'm I fighting with? No One! Perhaps my comments were taken a little too seriously (my bad for not expressing myself correctly) but they were meant a little tongue-in-cheek(y).

See... it's only telly!  :)

Alan!

How shall I fuck off, my lord?  :)

Actually Paul, I wasn't. It was more a gerneralisation of internet forums regarding Who (especially certain members of Outpost Gallifrey) including posts at the time of the series on here, and also how nearly every tv thread appears to degenerate into a Doctor Who bashing thread (unneccessarily so imo)


Actually, regarding Torchwood, I do think you have made a lot of good points there. I can see why they've gone for elements that will be familiar but I also hope that any Who references are kept to a minimum (early Caballistics did it just fine) allowing the show to develop by itself.

I think, whether you like Who or not, the new show really does have a lot of potentially good people attached to it. You never know but with the perspective we currently have (ie before the show airs) I think it's rather foolish to simply dismiss it. It may be good it may not. We'll find out in a couple of weeks.

Alan!

Sex and the City meets X-Files? Sounds alright to me. With you on Friends tho!  ;)