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The Political Thread

Started by The Legendary Shark, 09 April, 2010, 03:59:03 PM

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Peter Wolf

Quote from: TordelBack on 30 April, 2010, 08:20:50 AM
Quote from: Peter Wolf on 29 April, 2010, 04:23:13 PM
The EU Empire has spread itself too thin and is more interested in swallowing up countries without thinking about the consequences of it all.

Um, are you suggesting that Greece, Spain, Portugal, Italy and Ireland (to which the linked article refers) have no place in the EU?  I was under the impression that the inclusion of the 'peripheral' countries in a single market that already included the industrialised heartland was pretty much the original goal of the community project.

Apologies for double posting but its exactly the same thinking and methodology at work in the EU in terms of increasing its membership/empire as it is with NATO who accept all those ex-soviet satellite nations into NATO despite the fact that they contribute virtually nothing in terms of additional military capability because its all strategic and an alternative to letting them be absorbed by Russia all over again.
Worthing Bazaar - A fete worse than death

Dandontdare

#376
Quote from: Peter Wolf on 14 April, 2010, 10:10:59 PM
UKIP .... would exit the UK from the EU and save the taxpayer up to 120 billion a year.

The Guardian are doing a series of those worthy but boring supplements all week, chock full of graphs and statistics about Britain today. From today's:

What Britain put into the EU in 2008 (after the rebate*):
£6.08 bn

What the EU put into Britain in 2008:
£5.84bn

(*This is the £4.96bn rebate that Thatcher insisted on because of the relatively small size of our agricultural sector)

But I'm sure UKIP have more 'creative' accounting methods when it comes to statistics!


Christov

Mmm, UKIP do like to fudge facts, but don't all the parties really?

House of Usher

So membership of the EU costs us about a third of a Millennium Dome every year?
STRIKE !!!

Peter Wolf

#379
Is this a simple journalistic error ?
Quote from: Dandontdare on 30 April, 2010, 09:11:45 PM
Quote from: Peter Wolf on 14 April, 2010, 10:10:59 PM
UKIP .... would exit the UK from the EU and save the taxpayer up to 120 billion a year.

The Guardian are doing a series of those worthy but boring supplements all week, chock full of graphs and statistics about Britain today. From today's:

What Britain put into the EU in 2008 (after the rebate*):
£6.08 bn

What the EU put into Britain in 2008:
£5.84bn

(*This is the £4.96bn rebate that Thatcher insisted on because of the relatively small size of our agricultural sector)

But I'm sure UKIP have more 'creative' accounting methods when it comes to statistics!



Where you quoted me for saying it costs 120 billion i cant believe that i said that :-[ :lol:.I wasnt trying to deceive anyone because thats just outlandish !

I must have added a 0 and was meant to say 12 billion which was an approx figure and the gross contribution and i can say that neither UKIP or anyone else claims that we pay 120 billion per year.Thanks for correcting that.

The gross UK EU contribution in 2009 was approx 14 billion or 14.5 billion.

UKIP were basing their 40 million per day cost to the UK taxpayer on the gross UK contribution rather than the net contribution to the EU.

So the net cost to the UK that it pays to the EU is 13 million per day - 4.6 billion per year in 2009.

Tony Blair signed away a large amount of our Thatcher rebate so next year our net contribution will increase by 60 percent.

The cash that is given back to us is given to all these organisations like the Regional Development Fund and the European Social Fund and all kinds of things  so the cash benefits the public/taxpayer directly or indirectly or not at all.Whatever.

I complain about the cost of it but it is peanuts compared to the bigger picture when you consider that the toal contributed by income tax alone approx 155 billion in 2009 alone and if the argument against the EU was just based on costs to the UK taxpayer there wouldnt be much of an argument but its more than that.

Also these are official figures so they are not necessarily 100 percent accurate.

Also my point about the Third Sector wasnt right either because that includes a lot of wothwhile charities and non-profit organisations but i should have said it was ceertain sections of the private sector thast are feeding off the taxpayer like consultancies and quangos and that type of thing and not charities etc.
Worthing Bazaar - A fete worse than death

Peter Wolf

Quote from: Peter Wolf on 01 May, 2010, 12:48:32 AM
when you consider that the toal contributed by income tax alone approx 155 billion in 2009 alone and if the argument against the EU was just based on costs to the UK taxpayer there wouldnt be much of an argument but its more than that.



That should have read as "the total contributed to govt by income tax alone is approx 155 billion"
Worthing Bazaar - A fete worse than death

Peter Wolf

#381
I forgot about this :

http://www.brugesgroup.com/mediacentre/?article=14036


Apparently the EU creates one million + jobs so its an expensive way of creating employment.

And then theres this 120 billion :

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:c9TT0dlQIaQJ:euobserver.com/19/29961+uk+contributes+120+billion+to+the+eu&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=firefox-a
Worthing Bazaar - A fete worse than death

The Legendary Shark

Dear Mark J.,

Our poll results are in - over 90% of us want to stop the scaremongering about a hung parliament. So the campaign starts now!

The tabloid press is doing all it can to skew the election result by bullying and scaring voters. [1] The political editor of The Sun has been given clear instructions from Rupert Murdoch: "It is my job to see that Cameron f****g well gets into Downing Street" [2]. Murdoch and his tabloid press friends think they've got the right to decide who governs us.

Together we can stand up for our right to choose who we vote for and expose this cynical manipulation. Let's shame the tabloids, and prove to the rest of the media that we won't buy their spin.

Please sign the petition now and forward this message to stop this media scaremongering:
http://www.38degrees.org.uk/hung_parliament

Right now the media scaremongering is dominating the airwaves. But we know that millions of us want to cast our votes with hope - of a better politics and more balanced parliament. A massive outcry by tens of thousands of us will help shift the debate.

Numbers matter here, so we're teaming up with Avaaz.org. In total there are half a million of us - if enough of us get involved and spread the word we can break the tabloid stranglehold. By acting now, we can make sure we don't wake up on May 7th to hear Rupert Murdoch gloat again that "it was the Sun wot won it".

We can show we're not going to sit by and let right-wing media barons decide who runs the country. Sign the petition now:
http://www.38degrees.org.uk/hung_parliament

A hung parliament carries its own uncertainties and risks. But it also spells opportunities - for a more balanced parliament, reform to the voting system, and a different way of doing politics. [3] For many of us, it looks like it might be our best bet for changing politics for the better. But whoever we end up voting for, it should be us the voters, not foreign media barons, who call the shots in this election.

The tabloid editors are rattled. Polls suggest voters may defy them and refuse to vote in their chosen party. [4] That means right now they'll be planning to step up their dirty tricks in the final days of the campaign. A huge petition from 38 Degrees and Avaaz, defending our right to choose our own political destiny, could create a buzz on the internet and throw their plans off-course.

Add your voice now by clicking here, then please forward this message to all your friends:
http://www.38degrees.org.uk/hung_parliament

Thanks for getting involved,

David, Hannah, Johnny, Nina and the 38 Degrees Team

P.S. Create your own hung parliament scare story with our "Tabloid headline generator" at http://labs.38degrees.org.uk/headline/and we can add some of the best to the website.



NOTES

[1]see for example: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/election2010/2942670/Election-2010-The-no-win-nightmare.html?OTC-RSS&ATTR=Election+2010

[2]  http://www.newstatesman.com/media/2010/05/murdoch-clegg-cameron-paper

[3]  http://www.charter2010.co.uk/news/who-says-hung-parliaments-cant-be-effective

[4]  http://charter2010.co.uk/news/yougov-shows-53pc-hoping-hung-parliament
[move]~~~^~~~~~~~[/move]




Al_Ewing

I've signed it. I don't know how much good it will do to 'shame' Murdoch - he has none - but it's worth it for the principle of the thing.

These are human vultures who feed off the fears they create, who breed ignorance to increase their own power, who've turned 'journalism' into a dirty word, and Murdoch is the prime offender. Dacre needs a slap too, mind. Until we get a Press Complaints Commission with any teeth to it, this will have to do.
Try again. Fail again. Fail better.

Peter Wolf

Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 01 May, 2010, 03:09:18 PM


The tabloid press is doing all it can to skew the election result by bullying and scaring voters. [1] The political editor of The Sun has been given clear instructions from Rupert Murdoch: "It is my job to see that Cameron f****g well gets into Downing Street" [2]. Murdoch and his tabloid press friends think they've got the right to decide who governs us.

Together we can stand up for our right to choose who we vote for and expose this cynical manipulation. Let's shame the tabloids, and prove to the rest of the media that we won't buy their spin.




I have been totally avoiding the tabloid prole media completely and i dont even look at the covers.

I like the sound of a hung parliament though.

;)
Worthing Bazaar - A fete worse than death

The Legendary Shark

Roger's Momma's hoping for a well hung parliament.
[move]~~~^~~~~~~~[/move]




COMMANDO FORCES

Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 01 May, 2010, 05:33:15 PM
Roger's Momma's hoping for a well hung parliament.

Groan............................and I bet she will  ;)

Peter Wolf

I want a well hung parliament as well and they should be left hanging for at least 1 week.
Worthing Bazaar - A fete worse than death

Christov

I'm going to be honest here; I'm rather scared by the idea of a Conservative government.

While I don't doubt that they have the best interests of the country at heart, they serve certain classes more than others, have an incredibly murky funding source, are known for political cockblocking because it doesn't fit in with their plans, and see the world through a middle class middle Englander filter.

Anybody who thinks they'll be vastly different or superior to an already monstrously shite Labour are seriously mistaken.

Jim_Campbell

Quote from: Christov on 05 May, 2010, 01:59:06 PM
Anybody who thinks they'll be vastly different or superior to an already monstrously shite Labour are seriously mistaken.

You can kiss goodbye to the BBC under a Conservative government which, on its own, is enough to keep me from voting for them.

Cheers

Jim
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