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Spoilers => Prog => Topic started by: DavidXBrunt on 24 October, 2005, 11:44:44 PM

Title: 1462 - School Daze
Post by: DavidXBrunt on 24 October, 2005, 11:44:44 PM
The cover is simple and striking and I rather like it. That's all I have to say on that.

Dredd - Best cliffhanger in ages, I was on tenterhooks waiting to see how it played out and so the leap forwards in narrative is painfully good. I want to know what happened between Dredd but am prepared to wait for it. This is a great story.

Red Seas - For what was esentially a talking head exposition episode this was a lot of fun and builds nicely on the previous episodes. I'm delighted that this story seems to be even more enjoyable than the first story. Hurrah for the art too. Steve Yeowell remains the bestest artist ever.

Leatherjack - Tharg revels that after this episode there's another 5 to go, making this the longest story in a long time and the epic that the promo art promised. For me it's picking up after a lull and after three months I'm still not tired of it. Still wish Leviathon had had this amount of trust placed in it.

Sinister Dexter - Plot threads begin to entwine and it all looks to be rather exciting. Sin Dex steps up another gear.

Rogue Trooper or There is a Thrill and it never goes out for long enough for you to miss it. As good as, if not better, than any post F.D. Rogue you could care to mention but let down by artwork that I simply don't like. I'm glad others do but it just doesn't engage me at all.

General huzzahs all over for a strong prog that contains Dredd on fine form, with Rogue Trooper we have a cast iron classic series  being brought doing what it does best, in Sin Dex we have an established story rejuvenated, in Red Seas we have a recent series proving exactly why Tharg was right to recommision it, and in Leatherjack we've got Tharg picking an established team to create somehting new and giving it space to breathe. That's a practically perfect mix if you ask me.
Title: Re: 1462 - School Daze
Post by: Max Kon on 25 October, 2005, 12:10:34 AM
I'm guessing it'll be Kal who slays the ferry man
Title: Re: 1462 - School Daze
Post by: DavidXBrunt on 25 October, 2005, 12:14:57 AM
No, it's Who that kills the ferryman. Didn't you read the next up blurb? The only question now reamins which Who will it be? Kenny? Doctor? The?
Title: Re: 1462 - School Daze
Post by: Eck on 25 October, 2005, 12:37:43 AM
The first Leatherjack episode I've so far found interesting and meaningful. I hope it continues like this, but it's a shame we had to wait 12 weeks for it.
Title: Re: 1462 - School Daze
Post by: Byron Virgo on 25 October, 2005, 01:28:47 AM
I would like to see The Who cameo as a group of ugly degenerate gun sharks on a mission of vengeance and justice in Sinister Dexter.

"Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men? The Who knows!"
Title: Re: 1462 - School Daze
Post by: James on 25 October, 2005, 03:53:20 AM
I didn't realise Rogue was back this week (did I miss something), but always a pleasure to see Coleby's work. His recent stuff anyway.

And anyway, Rogue's top.

Dredd is excellent. Best Dredd we've had in a long time.

Leatherjack is just a bit John Smithy. I'll have to do a re-read in one go once it's finished.

Sin Dex is crap. Again.

Haven't read Red Seas yet but I love Yeowell's art and it's enjoyable stuff so far.

I wish Zenith would come back.
Title: Re: 1462 - School Daze
Post by: The Amstor Computer on 25 October, 2005, 04:11:45 AM
The new Rogue's OK-ish, and Coleby's art is as gorgeous as ever, but Rogue's appearance at the end of this episode just hammered home how much better GRennie's mooted Nu Earth series, "The 86ers", would be than this.

There's just nowhere left for the GI to go and all of the interesting stories that I feel Gordon wants to tell about Nu Earth have to have Rogue shoehorned into them, often to the detriment of the story being told.

...oh, and when did the game slip back into 2006? I thought it was due for an autumn/winter release this year. Have there been any more screens/vids/previews since E3?
Title: Re: 1462 - School Daze
Post by: Funt Solo on 25 October, 2005, 06:19:41 PM
Summary: a mediochre cartoon cover belying the most zarjaz thrillingness within.

Mandroid: I think the decision to replace Judge Dredd with Mandroid was an excellent one. This strip is far more interesting.  I knew Kitty was coming back, but I didn't know when - shock horror!  And Nate's a big battle-bot now - groovy!  And Dredd remained within the law, whilst still letting Mandroid loose on a suspected perp - Comissioner Gordon!

The Red Seas: Hollow World.  (The plot is drawing me in and the art is excellent.)

Leatherjack: What's it been?  10 episodes of cartoon nonsense and now it gets serious?  It's like I'm reading a totally different strip.

Spinster Dextrose: enjoying a mixed pace, this episode.  More pillow-talk, less gun-slinging.

Rogue Trooper: excellent surprise.  I really enjoyed this opening episode, and the return of that GI lassie from a previous Rogue episode (when was that?)  I sort of agree that you could tell this story without Rogue in it, but I have nothing against him being there (although the plot requires that we have a chem-immune agent to save the southers from the norts, so the story still needs a GI).  Tis the fence-sitting for me - although this plot is already a million times better than the "norts-under-water", "norts-under-sand" guff we were getting a while ago.  It was excellent to see Nu Earth madness again - love the art.
Title: Re: 1462 - School Daze
Post by: The Amstor Computer on 25 October, 2005, 06:38:35 PM
re: the GI pilot -- that's possibly the only bit in Rennie's revamp that really grated. I was never keen on Venus Bluegenes or the reborn biochips, as I felt it took away a little of the "last of his kind" feel that contributed much to the atmosphere of the original.

In an alternate world, I'd quite like Rogue Trooper to have concluded just after the death of the Traitor General, with the biochips destroyed or damaged & Rogue walking off into Nu Earth to fight his endless war.
Title: Re: 1462 - School Daze
Post by: Funt Solo on 25 October, 2005, 06:52:19 PM
The original Venus Bluegenes was just GI tits 'n' ass, and stuck into the plot to try and liven up things with...Helm, was it?

Then, in her own series, she was just a female version of Rogue (much in the same vein as Samantha Slade.)

But this GI Pilot (name?) and her computer Gabe, I'm finding a welcome addition to the pantheon.  Given the hi-tech nature of the war, it would be stretching it a bit to suggest that Rogue could be so unique as to be "the last GI" (despite the poetry of it).  What's to stop the scientists making more?

As it is, she provides an interesting character as both an in to Milli-Com and an unofficial ally to Rogue.  Plus, she's kick-ass.
Title: Re: 1462 - School Daze
Post by: Bolt-01 on 25 October, 2005, 07:02:04 PM
She also featured in Gordons Rogue Novel, and played quite a decent part in that too. Bland & Brass wanted her body! (Not in that way though).

Top Prog all round.

Bolt-01
Title: Re: 1462 - School Daze
Post by: The Amstor Computer on 25 October, 2005, 07:09:20 PM
The GI pilot is called Rafaella Blue, IIRC.

I see your point about the slight contortions that kept Rogue the last of his kind, but I don't think it's too far-fetched to assume that - given the catastrophic failure of the first GI units - resources and energies may have been diverted elesewhere, leaving the GI project to wither on the vine.

After all, I don't think it was ever clear in the original run that the Southers were aware that the GIs had been betrayed - as far as they knew, they'd simply been wiped out in their first engagement.

...or have I spent a little too long thinking about this?

;-)
Title: Re: 1462 - School Daze
Post by: The Amstor Computer on 25 October, 2005, 07:13:12 PM
Not in that way though

I should think not, given Gordon's take on their relationship in one of his Bile Duct columns...

;-)
Title: Re: 1462 - School Daze
Post by: Funt Solo on 25 October, 2005, 07:18:42 PM
Erm...only if I have as well.

It's true, and I think I've used (or stolen) the idea before about the diversion of resources after the initial failure at the Quartz Zone.

Let's face it, we can use logic to twist the story any which way - and I agree that ending the Rogue Trooper strip at the point where the Traitor General dies would have been a natural and satisfactory end point for the character and the story.

I never could remember why Venus Bluegenes existed.  Were the female GIs non-combatants?  Why didn't they all die in the Quartz Zone Massacre?  In Rennie's Rogue-iverse, are female GIs exclusively pilots?  Is Rafe from a new batch, created after Milli-Com debriefed Rogue?  Or is this all an alternity Rogue, similar to the original but not beholden to any of it's continuity?

Should I just shut up and enjoy the story?*







* rhetorical
Title: Re: 1462 - School Daze
Post by: The Amstor Computer on 25 October, 2005, 07:29:33 PM
IIRC, the GI Dolls were - to put it crudely - relief for the GI troopers. No idea what the setup is with the new female GI though - or why, when they're presumably gened to resist poisons, chem weapons etc. in the same way as Rogue, they're used as pilots.

I think the new series is supposed to take place during the "classic" Rogue series, but simply offering "snapshot" adventures from different periods of that series, rather than trying to run an ongoing story that slots into Rogue continuity, as with the last outing.
Title: Re: 1462 - School Daze
Post by: Oddboy on 25 October, 2005, 08:20:28 PM
...probably - given that it's got a new title of "Tales of the Rogue Trooper"
Title: Re: 1462 - School Daze
Post by: Lobo Baggins on 25 October, 2005, 08:53:17 PM
I should think not, given Gordon's take on their relationship in one of his Bile Duct columns...

Actually, it's made pretty clear that that they were supposed to be gay on their last appearance...
Title: Re: 1462 - School Daze
Post by: Oddboy on 25 October, 2005, 09:16:34 PM
And they were based on the two gay spies in the 007 book/film 'Diamonds are Forever'.
Title: Re: 1462 - School Daze
Post by: The Amstor Computer on 25 October, 2005, 09:19:33 PM
Ha! Blimey, I'd forgotten that - fairly conclusive, I reckon :-)
Title: Re: 1462 - School Daze
Post by: Satanist on 25 October, 2005, 09:21:13 PM
Mr Wint & Mr Kidd
Title: Re: 1462 - School Daze
Post by: Funt Solo on 25 October, 2005, 09:25:21 PM
Right - so these tales are free to use Bland, Brass, Magnam, Bluegenes, the Traitor General et al?

Eenteresting.
Title: Re: 1462 - School Daze
Post by: Carlsborg Expert on 27 October, 2005, 06:32:21 AM
Again this is sinking into oblivion and it is only just wednesday.
Title: Re: 1462 - School Daze
Post by: Roger Godpleton on 29 October, 2005, 04:06:58 AM
Here we go:

Dredd - After a few action packed episodes, Wagner slows everything down to great effect here. Walker's art is typically nice, and the ending was quite intriguing, even if 'twere obvious she was still alive

Red Seas - This had too much exposition and felt like a bit of a filler episode, to be honest. Yeowell's art is enjoyable, but the most I can say about this episode is that I won't mind if I never get to read it again.

Leatherjack - This got a bit pedestrian for a few weeks, but this is a big improvement, as we see some of the dynamism that I enjoyed in the strip previously.

Sin/Dex - This is astonishingly good stuff, and not just for Sin/Dex. (and not just cos it has a naked lady in it.) This story hhas mostly just been exposition, but it still is enthralling, and builds tension far more effectively then one-off mysteries such as Breathing Space. I'm still dreading the tedious drawn-out shootout, but it doesn't look now as if it can happen, and there may even be some reason to care about it now. I hope Ron doesn't get killed as he's great. Plus Simon's always great. Two thumbs up.

Rogue Trooper - I found this a bit hard to get into, Coleby's art is a bit too dark. I hope this isn't just "Rogue kinda falls for her AND THEN SHE DIES TRAGICALLY" as this has potential.

Overall: Not as good as in recent weeks, but worth the money, especially for Sin/Dex (feels weird saying that).

Title: Re: 1462 - School Daze
Post by: Carlsborg Expert on 29 October, 2005, 08:28:53 AM
AH, it was one of those weeks where I read through and enjoyed everything.

You know how sometimes you have to pick a story to break into the comics 5?

I think its done when all are equally as good as each other.

Well it was Sinister/Dexter.
p
o
s
s
.
s
p
o
i
l
e
r
Possibly out of curiosity to why something out of life drawing class was paley splashing herself around a deadmans bedroom.
Title: Re: 1462 - School Daze
Post by: Bart Oliver on 29 October, 2005, 09:33:06 AM

Rogue still is/was the last of his kind. He's the last Genetic Infantryman.

Rafaella Blue is a pilot, to say she's a GI pilot doesn't make sense..

(my understanding of military ranks is basic to say the least, but wouldn't she have
to be a commissioned officer to fly combat craft?)




Link: Milli-Com's hidden agenda..

Title: Re: 1462 - School Daze
Post by: Tu-plang on 30 October, 2005, 01:04:06 AM
Mandroid:  So good I didn't even notice the almost complete lack of Dredd

The Red Seas: Ooh, nice.  This gets the prize of the wittiest strip in tooth for quite some time, with some wonderful ideas and artwork too.

Leatherjack:  This is awesome.  A complete change of direction and still just as good or better than last week.

Sinister Dexter: Best its been in ages.  The last story had promise, but this one delivers.  Naked lady.

Rogue Trooper:  Can't get into it...

All in all, 2000AD has escaped the end-of-year blues this time to be the best its been in yonks.  But I think I've said that about the last few months as well.  Its been a good six months, ok?
Title: Re: 1462 - School Daze
Post by: Carlsborg Expert on 30 October, 2005, 01:15:08 AM
Yeah. Do you reckon thats Rico with Joe on the first page?
They do look similiar but one has no way of knowing for sure.
Title: Re: 1462 - School Daze
Post by: DavidXBrunt on 30 October, 2005, 01:18:49 AM
We do now, what with Rico having a metal jaw.
Title: Re: 1462 - School Daze
Post by: Carlsborg Expert on 30 October, 2005, 01:21:39 AM
Hmm. Wasn't there talk of some plasti-skin whatsit covering it though?
Title: Re: 1462 - School Daze
Post by: DavidXBrunt on 30 October, 2005, 01:23:56 AM
Dunno but I'm sure Dredd said it'd make it easier to tell them apart.
Title: Re: 1462 - School Daze
Post by: Tordelbach on 30 October, 2005, 04:37:48 AM
Mmmm, great prog.

Mandroid.  It simply cannot get better than this.  Story of the year, no question.

No strong feelings about Rennie's Rogue one way or t'other, but as to Blue:  Well, she clearly isn't a Genetic INFANTRYman, what ever she else is, and obviously wasn't at the Quartzone massacre.  Maybe she's a GA(irman)?  Thus leaving Rogue as the last GI, Venus as the last Doll (hmmm)...

I don't see what the problems with Leatherjack are!  I've enjoyed this greatly so far, and was sure it would end any week now - great to see it's been given room to breathe, it's a gem.

The Red Seas is something I've been ambivalent about in the past, but this one is fun (even if everyone accepts a non-biblical age for the earth and catastrophe theory rather rapidly for the 17th century, but hey, given that they have hydrofoils...).  Yeowell's artwork has improved massively with this series - I've thought his recent stuff very sketchy, almost as if he never quite got used to living without colour again, but this is sharp and detailed.

Sin/Dex.  Lovely to look at, but after all these years of tripe I just can't care about another Big Plot.

 
Title: Re: 1462 - School Daze
Post by: philt on 30 October, 2005, 04:35:41 PM
Can't believe Rogue Trooper is back. I thought this had been buried never to darken our doors ever again?
Title: Re: 1462 - School Daze
Post by: Leigh S on 31 October, 2005, 01:25:51 AM
The female GI, does adhere to the precedent set in the GFD period for other GIs to be about.  however, the idea of another combat active GI (male or female) on Nu Earth just doesnt chime right for me.  It was the one element of the (mostly)otherwise agreeable RT novel "Crucible" that kind of watered down my enjoyment.  

If you look at GFDs other GIs, there's Venus (stranded non combatant), and Azure (desk bound, off planet), and the regened Gunnar and Magnam are specifically there to get Rogue, not to fight Norts or Southers.  The other reason i feel she doesnt work is that it just seems to me that Gordon has more fun writing for her than Rogue, who sometimes comes across as more parody of the original than recreation. I fell like shes walked in from another strip that thinks it's more sophisicated than this one about a lumbering man with a talking hat. Which is a shame, as I still think Rogue as a setting AND character have a lot to offer on their own terms.
Title: Re: 1462 - School Daze
Post by: Funt Solo on 31 October, 2005, 01:47:04 PM
"Cinnabar" demonstrated that there's life in the character and setting of the original Rogue Trooper (whilst it naturally built on much that had gone before).

Having said that, the original series, right up until the death of the Traitor General, had, in effect, told the entire story of the Rogue Trooper.  

Dragging him to Horst to find a magic potion, or placing him under the command of enigmatic aliens wrapped in a riddle was just forcing things to continue past their natural end point.

The story had a beginning, middle and end.  Now that he's been forced into new rogue situations, re-invented as Friday, re-born as Tor Cyan, re-jigged as Rogue-with-a-different-virus [Rennie] and finally paid homage to (recent outtings) how are long term readers supposed to be able to invest any consideration in the character?  Who is he, anyway?

Now Rafe, the sassy female GI combat pilot with her sidekick computer Gabe - she is a new and interesting character.  The first time I saw her, crash-landed and helped out by Rogue, she was the main character and Rogue was the cameo guest appearance.  The same goes here.

To summarise:  I enjoyed the latest instalment, but I consider it Rafe's story, not Rogues.
Title: Re: 1462 - School Daze
Post by: Leigh S on 31 October, 2005, 01:57:40 PM
I think youre right, it's Rafes stiory, and as such, its as mucha reinvention as Friday, rather than a return to Rogue.

And you're right about the reason for Rogues ills. The only real cure for Rogue os to resurrect the Traitor General and ignore all stories post "The Ends of Nu Earth" (or possibly post "Horst" and have Rogue get word that the TG is still alive).

This may sound as if it's pretty drastic, but the TGs death in "Ends of" is not actually seen, and was pretty lame anyway. Given the knots that wirters have written themselves in to try and bring some joy back to Rogue without success, I think it would be a very small evil