Main Menu

2000ad All female creative teams in 2018 Summer Special

Started by Colin YNWA, 07 February, 2018, 06:41:46 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Modern Panther

Ah, yes..."let's debate them.  It will force them into the light, and everyone will see their opinions for what they are, and they'll grow into better people and the world will be lovely."

It's gone well so far, hasn't it?  People who think that gay people are unseemly, or who complain about " leftist SJWs" taking over the world, we frequently see them change their minds just because someone took the trouble to debate them, don't we?

No, we see them getting attention.



marko10174


You could apply that logic to all sides. So what? everyone just gives up and continues to tear each others throats out? There have been plenty of cases of people who have changed their attitudes towards racism and homophobia for the better. However, displaying Juvenile bully tactics (that's not aimed at you) and encouraging others to join in isn't productive at all.

Take Daryl Davis for example, a black man who spent thirty years befriending the kkk "when two enemies are talking, they're not fighting".

I get a bit tired of people claiming to be progressives but then display such venomous behaviour. (again not aimed at you).

TordelBack

#92
Marko,  you quoted a Facebook post and said "couldn't have put it better myself". The post was pure bollocks, as amply explored above. It's a reflection of a mistaken view of the comic,  its history and contemporary society.  What did you hope to get for introducing it to this discussion and unreservedly endorsing it,  a round of applause? Sympathy? You make a robust claim,  expect a robust refutation.

marko10174


I didn't expect any of the points you made, just a constructive debate, and as you put it... to explore other peoples views on the matter. Emotion doesn't have to be brought in to everything, that's a choice. Agree to disagree, where's the harm in that?

Richard

QuoteUltimately this is why the world is so divided right now because people can't debate anymore with out becoming hostile and rude.
That's one reason; another one is bigotry. Bigotry is divisive. It's also hostile and rude.

QuoteEmotion doesn't have to be brought in to everything, that's a choice. Agree to disagree, where's the harm in that?
Bigotry tends to provoke an emotional response, and for good reason. As for agreeing to disagree, it all depends on what you disagree about. I'd agree to disagree about our favourite colour. But if it's about whether women should be encouraged / permitted to work in comics, then agreeing to disagree with a misogynist is indeed harmful, because it's a shameful surrender in the face of something that ought to be stood up to.

The Adventurer

When your 'side' is misogyny and bigotry, there is no 'rational debate' or 'agreeing to disagree'. This is not a Pepsi vs Coke debate, this is human lives and human dignity actively under threat by ignorance and irrational hate.

THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK

marko10174


You don't know what "my side" is. I just think it's a little too easy to call people god knows what these days, and resort to labels because "they" disagree with me. People can blow things out of proportion, and become highly sensitive because they see bigotry everywhere they look. But fair points made, I'm not stirring the pot.

Jim_Campbell

Because, of course, you've never used the term "SJW" or accused people of "virtue signalling". It's not a pose, it's not following some trendy social fad, it's just the right thing to do.
Stupidly Busy Letterer: Samples. | Blog
Less-Awesome-Artist: Scribbles.

Modern Panther

QuoteI get a bit tired of people claiming to be progressives but then display such venomous behaviour.

"You leftists aren't as accepting of my shit as I say you claim you are"

As a person who actually cares about the concept of social justice, and believes that women should be encouraged to engage with an industry that has traditionally used them as token victims, I am truly sick of the idea that any acts of decency should be regarded as a willingness to put up with the bullshit of people who believe the exact opposite. 

"Progressive" isn't the same as "weak".  Knee jerk reactions and a desire for everything to be as simple as it was forty years ago is weak.  "Progressive" is actually bloody difficult in the face of the unending, self importance of petty individuals.

I started to read 2000AD when I was eleven.  Now, I've been lucky with my life. I'm comfortable with who I am, and I happen to be part of a group who don't have things particularly hard.  But there are plenty of people of that age who are starting to figure out who they are, and realising that society holds certain expectations for them, or that lots of folks simply think they shouldn't be around. 

When I was eleven the internet wasn't around.  But if it was, I would be on this forum, reading the opinions of these older people who seem to have the world sussed out.  If those people told me that I shouldn't be involved, or my involvement was nothing more than a fad to make other people feel important - that would be devastating.

2000AD is punk.  Punk is about involvement.  Punk is venom.  Its about throwing away society's expectations and the old rules about who can do what and when.  It's about buying a cheap guitar, learning a couple of chords, and showing the world just how fucking angry you are at their low expectations of you. That's what "progressive" is.  Not touchy-feely kumbaya bullshit, or everyone getting a go of the conche shell even if they're going to use it to abuse you, but getting up in front of a bunch of people whose primary function is nostalgia and fighting for things to actually get better.

jacob g

Quote from: marko10174 on 12 February, 2018, 07:34:09 AM

You don't know what "my side" is.

It's kind of funny. You started with quote, full of misconceptions about main topic caliming that this quote is perfect explanation of your views, but few moments later you resort to playing the victim and retracting from previous statement. We know what is your side since 10 February, 2018, 10:07:20 pm.
margaritas ante porcos

Professor Bear

NAZIS: Kill all the jews.  Put them in gas chambers with the queers.
SJWS: No.
MODERATES: It's the SJWs intransigence I'm most angry at.

sheridan

Quote from: IndigoPrime on 11 February, 2018, 10:11:21 AM
The likes of Have I Got News For You? have a lot to answer for having the likes of jim, Johnson, and Hartley-Brewer on as regulars.)

They also made Boris Johnson.

sheridan

Quote from: Robin Low on 11 February, 2018, 01:51:37 PM
Quote from: Professor Bear on 11 February, 2018, 01:32:05 PM
Dredd is a fascist, so the alt-right already have their representation in the comic.  Oh wait, I forgot - Dredd has a liberal agenda and is not conservative enough.

Most of his best friends are women. Although he did ensure that McGruder went out in a brutal hail of bullets, and not with a peaceful, dignified injection.

Robin

He doesn't always get on that well with Hershey either ;-)

TordelBack

Quote from: Professor Bear on 12 February, 2018, 12:33:44 PM
NAZIS: Kill all the jews.  Put them in gas chambers with the queers.
SJWS: No.
MODERATES: It's the SJWs intransigence I'm most angry at.

I think by simply dismissing the Nazis' concerns you're just perpetuating division, a rational person would aim to reach a compromise, rather than further entrenching opposed views. Maybe if we come up with some middle ground, halfway between the positions?  Say we kill half the Jews (the particularly Jewish ones, they're the most troublesome), or just let them starve in the camps, rather than gassing them? What's important is that we acknowledge and respect everyone's views (well, apart from the Jews, obviously).




sheridan

Quote from: Professor Bear on 12 February, 2018, 12:33:44 PM
NAZIS: Kill all the jews.  Put them in gas chambers with the queers.
SJWS: No.
MODERATES: It's the SJWs intransigence I'm most angry at.

And just so we're all on the page - while the reference to Nazism dates all this to the 1940s, there are assaults on jews, muslims, women, transgender happening across the world to this day (I've seen more recent headlines, but typically the most recent I could find on a quick search of BBC News just now was damage to a Jewish cemetery last year and the usual attacks on transgender people).