I thought it might be interesting to have somewhere to bring together people's goes at the sample scripts. I know it is unwise to check them out beforehand but it might be interesting to see what people have done afterwards as a comparison. The relatively limited number of scripts available should
The scripts available in the zip file here (http://www.2000adonline.com/application/media/downloads/2000AD_subsmissons_examples.zip) are:
- Judge Dredd: "Cycle of Violence" - prog 1549 by Robbie Morrison and Cliff Robinson (reference pictures (http://www.2000adonline.com/forum/index.php/topic,26304.0.html))
- Future Shock: "Holed Up" prog 1249 by Richard McTighe and Cam Smith
- Judge Dredd: "PF" - prog 1476 by John Wagner and Arthur Ranson
- Tharg's Terror Tales: "Sorrowhill" - prog 1399 by Al Ewing and Shaun Thomas
- Tales of Telguuth: "The Colossal Wealth of Karn Foul-Eye" - prog 1284 by Steve Moore and Stefano Cardoselli
Unfortunately the script index on Barney (http://2000ad.org/?zone=droid&page=scriptindex)
doesn't seem to work but there are others over there if you nose around. Now up and working again.
Previously:
- Sample scripts (http://2000adonline.com/forum/index.php/topic,19457.0.html)
See also:
- Scripts from other publishers (http://www.2000adonline.com/forum/index.php/topic,28949.0.html)
There are numerous threads in this creator forum on submissions and covering other points, so have a nose through. Some important ones:
- Can anyone tell me the page dimensions for a 2000AD submission? (http://www.2000adonline.com/forum/index.php/topic,26432.0.html)
The best advice general advice is on the submission page (and the best advice is to follow the instructions):
www.2000adonline.com/submissions
If in doubt (and you can't find a thread on this topic already), start a new thread in this area asking for advice.
Reference pictures:
There are some "Cycle of Violence" ones above but some more general reference guides for Judge Dredd can't do any harm.
Steve Cook's blog often posts production snippets and he has a colouring guide to Dredd and Anderson that also gives a decent guide to Dredd's uniform:
http://secret-oranges.blogspot.com/2011/12/dredd-specs.html
http://secret-oranges.blogspot.com/2011/12/dredd-specs-2.html
As well as Anderson:
http://secret-oranges.blogspot.com/2011/11/anderson-specs.html
Which come from one of the Judge Dredd "bibles":
http://forums.2000adonline.com/index.php/topic,17566.0.html
The Starscans also contain useful information:
http://www.2000ad.org/?zone=covers&page=scans
Front view of characters:
http://www.2000ad.org/functions/cover.php?Comic=scans&choice=700
http://www.2000ad.org/functions/cover.php?Comic=scans&choice=701
http://www.2000ad.org/functions/cover.php?Comic=scans&choice=702
http://www.2000ad.org/functions/cover.php?Comic=scans&choice=703
http://www.2000ad.org/functions/cover.php?Comic=scans&choice=710
As well as cutaway technical diagrams of various bits of a Judge's kit:
http://www.2000ad.org/functions/cover.php?Comic=scans&choice=991
http://www.2000ad.org/functions/cover.php?Comic=scans&choice=995
http://www.2000ad.org/functions/cover.php?Comic=scans&choice=997
http://www.2000ad.org/functions/cover.php?Comic=scans&choice=998
However, don't worry too much about the fine details (as everyone draws their eagle at a different angle or the shoulder pad a different size) but the above should help most artists avoid the more basic errors, which make those looking at the images wonder if the artist has ever read a Judge Dredd comic ;)
If anyone needs any specific reference images then start a new thread in the help forum (http://forums.2000adonline.com/index.php/board,18.0.html) and someone will be able to sort you out with those but please be as specific as possible as if we have to try and guess what you are after it lowers the chances of a quick and easy resolution.
So I'll get the ball rolling:
"Cycle of Violence" from Johnny J (http://www.heresjohnny.co.uk/):
www.comicspace.com/johnny_j/comics.php?action=gallery&comic_id=25418&bl_type=3
Anyone know of any others? If you have done one then think about bunging up somewhere like ComicSpace (which makes it easy to do, as above) or DeviantArt and bung us the link, don't worry critiques won't be provided unless you specifically ask for it. ;)
I remember having a bash at Cycle of Violence, and even though there wasn't any writer credit on the script, when it got to the cadet stuff where the main character is being bullied "Robbie Morrison" popped into my head.
I'm having a bash at Cycle of Violence, gonna submit it to Thargy baby and see if likes it enough to throw bucks at me for doing more. Never know.
Here's page 1, started on friday afternoon, probably 7-8 hours all in, maybe a bit more:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v99/jameskircough/Dredd/CycleofViolence1unlettered.jpg)
Man thats fantastic work!!
That's great Thargy baby will be gagging on it! Looking forward to seeing you in print!
I'll happily contribute to this thread (giving crits/advice), if people are willing for me to do so. PLEASE say so though as I don't want to wade in and upset anyone!
-pj
(ps you can invoke me by saying PJ! PJ! PJ! ... or, just say you welcome crits...)
Quote from: James on 20 February, 2010, 09:48:07 PM
Here's page 1, started on friday afternoon, probably 7-8 hours all in, maybe a bit more:
That's quality work. However, I have to point out the Mk1 Lawgiver ... the current model is actually a bit of a swine to draw, but if you're serious about a gig with Tharg, you'll have to draw the bugger!
Cheers
Jim
but wasn't cycle of violins ages ago and the kid's grown up now?
Quote from: Proudhuff on 20 February, 2010, 10:31:43 PM
but wasn't cycle of violins ages ago and the kid's grown up now?
I'd forgotten that opening sequence was a flashback. I'm a muppet.
Cheers!
Jim
However ... I do have a bit of an issue with that block of three panels at the bottom. It's difficult to know what order to read them at the best of times (vertical first and then two horizontal works; two horizontal and then vertical doesn't), but you further confuse the reading order by breaking the panel borders and drawing the reader's eye into the final frame before the penultimate.
You want the reader to follow the order of the green arrows, but your layout draws the reader in the direction of the red arrows:
(http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb36/jimcampbell2000/CycleofViolence1Marked.jpg)
Cheers!
Jim
I absolutely agree about the last 3 panels, I'll come up with a solution. The gun shot wasn't meant to be quite so angled, more straight on, but it worked well so I kept it like that. That's the reason it bust into the wrong panel too.
I'll figure it out.
Oh, and PJ? Feel free.
PJ! PJ! PJ! PJ! PJ!
caveat: I haven't read the script - but, I like to try and do story telling so that you don't need the script to help it along...
Well, Jim's covered the thing that was shouting out for a change, so I'll not mention it.
Like your art - nice and clean, easy to read and understand also like the inking.
Let me draw over your pic, and explain:
(http://i881.photobucket.com/albums/ac18/pauljholden/CycleofViolence1unlettered-1.gif)
Panel 1: I shortened her torso - looked a little stretched to me. (I DIDN'T add her foot, which should be visible)
Panel 2: I blacked the walls, and moved stuff around, as it existed it struck me that, compositionally, a lot of attention was being focused on that table - not having read the script, that could be exactly what we're supposed to focus on - but I'm guessing not. So I blacked the walls (making the space feel tighter - like we're in a more confined area, I moved the girl to the centre (and moved the table out of the way, though, I probably should've deleted it, it's still fighting for attention. I shifted dredd so he was no longer cropped off panel (though I suspect you'd be better redrawing him to get him to fit better).
I rejigged those bottom panels - this is against the script - so DON'T DO IT - but, for the purposes of this, I wanted to show how much easier it is to read that layout in this direction rather than the other (also: went to super closeup AFTER a mid shot, not before, gives the thing more tension...)
That any use?
-pj
Quote from: Emperor on 19 January, 2010, 08:08:19 PMUnfortunately the script index on Barney (http://2000ad.org/?zone=droid&page=scriptindex) doesn't seem to work but there are others over there if you nose around.
Logan sent me an email about this and the index has now been fixed.
Cheers,
Wake
I think PJ's changes to panel 2 should probably be laid up side by side and pinned above the drawing board of every aspiring artist!
I'll confess, I'd never have thought of something as straightforward as blacking in the walls, but it focuses the reader's eye inwards so completely that it makes me want to stand up and applaud!
Cheers
Jim
He's smart and funny. Fair play
Cheers for the feedback
PJ's centring of the body in the second panel is important. From reading through the script the idea I get is of cinematic approach to the first couple of panels - you open with close-up of a dead body then zoom out to reveal the Mexican stand-off, so the body should stay as the centre of your panel.
The other tricky bit is the last panel, as has been noted it can cause problems with the flow of the page. The description asks for a view from the boy's eyes looking up at Dredd as he shoots the Dad. Given the position of the two individuals this would tend to give an up and left direction which can cause problems and results in a bit of odd flow to the page (when the eye wants to really go down and right to the end of the page). It seems like one of those times when getting some friends and family to pose for this (presumably with the artist as the boy and taking snaps) could really pay off as there might be a better way of posing this to make it flow better. In the Comicspace example the artist has gone for a more dead-on view which might be more workable but might not give the desired effect (or it might - its friends and family time). One thing that might be worth thinking about is using your artist's prerogative and swap the side the Dad is standing on, this would have the result of Dredd appearing to fire over our right shoulder (from the boy's POV of course). Anyway one worth toying with to see if something works better.
Quote from: Wake on 21 February, 2010, 12:03:50 AM
Quote from: Emperor on 19 January, 2010, 08:08:19 PMUnfortunately the script index on Barney (http://2000ad.org/?zone=droid&page=scriptindex) doesn't seem to work but there are others over there if you nose around.
Logan sent me an email about this and the index has now been fixed.
Thanks for doing that, it opens up the number of scripts people have to play with.
Just a quick follow-up ... you've done a good job with allowing room for the lettering on this. I wanted to show how it's the breaking of the panel borders that really messes up the flow. If your letterer is on the ball, then they'll use the balloons to clarify the flow of the page (although you obviously shouldn't be relying on this in sample pages!), as shown below:
(http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb36/jimcampbell2000/Cycle_001_Lett.jpg)
As you can see, the balloons would have drawn the reader's eye in the required direction, but the end of the Lawgiver's barrel creates this unwanted link between panels 3 and 5 that's almost impossible to break.
Cheers!
Jim
This is absolutely fascinating stuff. Thanks everybody, especially James, you brave bugger.
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 21 February, 2010, 10:49:27 AM
Just a quick follow-up ... you've done a good job with allowing room for the lettering on this. I wanted to show how it's the breaking of the panel borders that really messes up the flow. If your letterer is on the ball, then they'll use the balloons to clarify the flow of the page (although you obviously shouldn't be relying on this in sample pages!), as shown below:
(http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb36/jimcampbell2000/Cycle_001_Lett.jpg)
As you can see, the balloons would have drawn the reader's eye in the required direction, but the end of the Lawgiver's barrel creates this unwanted link between panels 3 and 5 that's almost impossible to break.
Cheers!
Jim
Thanks Jim,
I've lettered it too:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v99/jameskircough/Dredd/CycleofViolence1.jpg)
Quite similar in a lot of places. I was going for the first 4 caption boxes to pull you down into the main image. I can see now that perhaps if the 4th box was over the sofa it would lead you down towards panel 3 and move the flow in the right direction.
I'm not gonna change too much, the last 3 panels obviously I'll fix, kinda defeats the point of me figuring these things out on my own. I appreciate all the feedback, it's all completely valid.
Once I've done a couple more pages I'll put them up for your merciless rending of my work!
Cheers again,
James
Good on you for putting your stuff out there for criticism though, James. I'd say it's probably rare to have a forum where criticism will be completely constructive and where you can get helpful pointers from pro artists. Best of luck with the submission!
Quote from: James on 21 February, 2010, 11:51:58 AM
I've lettered it too:
Nice job. Blambot FX Pro, I note -- excellent choice, although I prefer a heavier stroke to a drop shadow, myself. Nate Piekos argues that SFX shouldn't have punctuation (http://www.blambot.com/grammar.shtml) (like the exclamation mark here) and I'm inclined to agree, pretty much any SFX will look nicer if you leave the exclamation mark off. In this case, it would also remove the tangent between the bottom point and Dredd's helmet.
QuoteI can see now that perhaps if the 4th box was over the sofa it would lead you down towards panel 3 and move the flow in the right direction.
Where would the title block go? Bear in mind that I haven't put the 'credit card' on here either!
QuoteOnce I've done a couple more pages I'll put them up for your merciless rending of my work!
I want to stress that the quality of the drawing is excellent, James -- I've lettered some pages that were paying jobs for the artist and they were a long way short of the standard you're demonstrating here.
Cheers!
Jim
I've got a six page Dredd strip (Generation Killer) that's been on the back burner for 6 months or so - I've been waiting until I sort my computer/printer/scanner situation out so I can finish it.
When it's done I'll try and post it here.
Oh yeah, I'd love to see it Radiator. I've liked your work since I've seen it on the board - be cool to see a strip.
Nice work James, very brave to put it here. But to get advice from 'old pros' like PJ and 'older' pros like Jim is invaluable. I wish I could get my scripts critiqued like this.
Do it, Radiator! Also, James, fair play for kicking this off. Takes some balls, that. Really like that page too. Nice stuff. And the crits have been very interesting and thought provoking. ;)
Couple of questions for you, Jim; If my lettering font is too 'wide' which it is, I can reduce the width to say, 90%, in Illustrator is there any way to save that edit and my font selection as default? Also the stroke and fill values are set to black by default, I want them to be black an White.
Basically what I want us to open illustrator and start lettering, not faffing about with font sizes and stuff before I get started.
Any tips?
Very brave of you to put it out here for criticism, James. Well done and lucky you for getting such amazing feedback from such talented folks. The way everyone's chipped in to help has reminded me why I love this board.
Good luck with your remaining pages, James. Will you be attempting to redo this page with the criticism in mind?
Pages from Radiator would be a treat! One of the most unique art styles on this sickeningly talented board.
Quote from: James on 21 February, 2010, 01:57:56 PM
Couple of questions for you, Jim; If my lettering font is too 'wide' which it is, I can reduce the width to say, 90%, in Illustrator is there any way to save that edit and my font selection as default? Also the stroke and fill values are set to black by default, I want them to be black an White.
Basically what I want us to open illustrator and start lettering, not faffing about with font sizes and stuff before I get started.
Any tips?
Right ... Illustrator is pretty rubbish for this sort of stuff. If it wasn't vastly superior for complex path operations, I'd be tempted to use InDesign, where I could assign character style sheets to the numeric keypad and save myself a lot of bother. However, it
is better, so you're stuck with it.
What I have is a blank lettering document (well, several, one for each publisher so that the artboard is set to the correct page size) with speech balloons and pre-formatted text on the pasteboard at the side of the document. First thing I do is copy the first bit of dialogue for the page out of the script, stick it on the AI document and pick the lettering style up with the eye-dropper from the pre-formatted text that's already there. All then copy and paste in all the rest of the text for the page, and it should continue to use that formatting.
The problem with stroke and fill is that you
don't necessarily want it to be black and white -- for dialogue text you want a black fill and
no stroke.
Try these keystrokes:
D - will reset stroke and fill to
Default -- black stroke and white fill.
X - toggle between having stroke and fill colour selected for editing.
, - (comma) will change the stroke or fill (whichever is active for editing) to the current foreground colour
/ - will change the stroke or fill (whichever is active) to transparent.
Thus, if you currently have a red stroke and a gradient fill for whatever SFX you were working on, but now you want black stroke and white fill. Hit X and you will have your black stroke and white fill. If you hit SHIFT-X, the stroke and fill colours will swap and you will have a white stroke and a black fill. If the stroke is currently active, ie - at the front, as below...
(http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb36/jimcampbell2000/Picture1-2.png)
... then simply hit / and you will have a black fill and no stroke. If the fill is active, hit X, and the stroke will come to the front and you can hit / ...
It's absolutely worth forcing yourself to use these keystrokes until they're imprinted on your brain ...!
Cheers
Jim
Jim, how did you letter before all this computer wankery? I've always wondered what letterers did 'before'. Just have steady hands? Use some sort of typewriter keys? Pardon my ignorance.
Can I just chip in again to say how much I like the inking? Like it a lot.
Quote from: locustsofdeath! on 21 February, 2010, 02:28:19 PM
Jim, how did you letter before all this computer wankery? I've always wondered what letterers did 'before'. Just have steady hands? Use some sort of typewriter keys? Pardon my ignorance.
http://www.blambot.com/handlettering.shtml
-pj
Quote from: locustsofdeath! on 21 February, 2010, 02:28:19 PM
Jim, how did you letter before all this computer wankery? I've always wondered what letterers did 'before'. Just have steady hands? Use some sort of typewriter keys? Pardon my ignorance.
I didn't letter pre-computers. My hands were never steady enough -- OTOH, I was waaaay ahead of the curve for using computers to letters and I spent many years waiting for the fonts to get good enough to be viable.
In the old days, there were two methods:
In the US, the letterer used to letter directly onto the pencils, drawing the speech balloons and ruling in the panel borders, and then the inker inked around the lettering. See here (http://kleinletters.com/HandBasics.html) for Todd Klein's short piece on this, and here (http://www.blambot.com/handlettering.shtml) for Nate Piekos' more in-depth article.
In the UK, because the artwork usually arrived at the editorial as finished, inked artwork, British letterers lettered onto adhesive-backed paper, cut out the speech balloons, stuck 'em down on the artwork and usually added the tails with process white. Some artists drew empty speech balloons onto their artwork (I've seen some Cam Kennedy pages that appear to have been done like this) and obviously extra-talented bastards like Dave Gibbons lettered their own work.
(Gibbons, I believe, used to letter his work as soon as he'd laid down the rough outlines on the page, so as not to waste time pencilling or inking anything that would be obscured by the letters.)
Cheers!
Jim
(Dave Gibbons was my favourite artist when I first started reading 2000AD and I attribute the fact that he also lettered his work to my lifelong fascination with lettering ...)
Cheers Jim, I kinda know my way around Photoshop, but never had much need for Illustrator in the past. Since I've been doing my own lettering these things have bugged me a bit.
I have in the past just opened up a previous lettered document and copy/pasted a bit of text onto the new and just rewrote/pasted the new dialogue. Using an eyedropper to do the same thing sounds like the work of genius. Well done, sir.
I should get a manual.
Quote from: James on 21 February, 2010, 03:06:38 PM
I should get a manual.
Forgive me for stating the bleeding obvious, but you have seen this (http://www.2000adonline.com/forum/index.php/topic,26445.msg458386.html#msg458386), haven't you?
That's a guide to
how, Blambot has an excellent guide to
what and
why, that I've already linked to, but will link to again (http://www.blambot.com/grammar.shtml).
Cheers!
Jim
I have now, thanks Jim, your lettering guide is great, I hadn't read that Blambot link before though, good stuff.
Anyways, I've finished, yes finished the page now. taken some of the advice, not all-I still have my own mistakes to make. I'm trying to think like a professional, and if I was, I wouldn't have PJ or Jim sitting at home with me helping me out, especially PJ's accent. Scare my kids...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v99/jameskircough/Dredd/CycleofViolence1unletteredfinal.jpg)
I put the foot in panel 1, changed the position of the woman, table and re-drew Dredd in page 2. 3-5 have fundamentally stayed the same drawings, but fitted into different panels to make the flow work.
Final thoughts?
Quote from: James on 21 February, 2010, 10:17:05 PM
Final thoughts?
I liked it better the old way.
KIDDING! I'm kidding! What?!?
Cheers
Jim
That's a mean looking Dredd (as in good!)
Almost Bolland-esque
Chi
Second from last panel could do with seeing the corner of the window, just to help reinforce the fact that they're the same people in panels 2&3. Also, still think blacking in those walls will help focus that pic - but your call.
-pj
Very, very good drawing/inking, James. You have an excellent economical style. Very brave of you to put your storytelling up for comments.
So no exclamation marks after sound effects? There's another example of blindingly obvious yet I never in a million years would have realised that bit of advice from Jim. Amazing how these things need to be spelt out for me before I realise them, even though I've been reading comics virtually my whole life (and I'm talking quite a few decades, folks).
Quote from: James on 21 February, 2010, 10:17:05 PMFinal thoughts?
Something I forgot last time which seems more pronounced in this version - it looks like Dredd's hand is bent back for that shot. As he is shooting just up and left of the POV in the last panel you'd not expect to see much of the side of the gun (you wouldn't be looking right down the barrel but it'd be pointing in your general direction).
Anyway overall the art looks solid across the board - I;d be very happy with that if I were you and I think we'd want to be seeing more work from you very soon (get a blog!!).
PJ is right about a darker wall helping focus the eye but it might be something that can be picked up in the colouring stage (perhaps dropping the wall down to a dark grey, so you can keep the shadow and cracks and other details). I would recommend sneaking the corner of the window in like he suggests as it does help with context and continuity.
Quote from: SuperSurfer on 21 February, 2010, 11:46:27 PM
So no exclamation marks after sound effects?
There are plenty of letterers who do, and lots of examples of SFX with exclamation marks ... but Nate argues that a sound effect is not a sentence in the normal meaning of the word, and if you can't make an effect look dramatic by virtue of it being twelve times larger than the dialogue font, in a different typeface, and bright red, then an exclamation mark isn't going to make much difference!
Cheers
Jim
Quote from: Emperor on 21 February, 2010, 11:54:22 PM
PJ is right about a darker wall helping focus the eye but it might be something that can be picked up in the colouring stage
When you're dealing in samples NEVER EVER rely on something being 'fixed' or 'picked up' in colours. It's got to be
clearly readable in black and white.
-pj
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 21 February, 2010, 11:59:09 PM
Quote from: SuperSurfer on 21 February, 2010, 11:46:27 PM
So no exclamation marks after sound effects?
There are plenty of letterers who do, and lots of examples of SFX with exclamation marks ... but Nate argues that a sound effect is not a sentence in the normal meaning of the word, and if you can't make an effect look dramatic by virtue of it being twelve times larger than the dialogue font, in a different typeface, and bright red, then an exclamation mark isn't going to make much difference!
Unless the exclamation mark is just punctuation!!! Possibly more cartoon/manga effect though ;)
If you are doing "Cycle of Violence" then some of the images in this thread might be useful for you as handy reference ,aterial:
www.2000adonline.com/forum/index.php/topic,26304.0.html
I've finished page 2. There's a lot of text on this page, so I lettered it as I was drawing it, just to make sure there was enough room (I haven't shown the lettering here, obviously).
Again, feel free to wade in with your crits.
(http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/061/c/6/Dredd_Violence_2_by_JamesKircough.jpg)
Really impressive, sir I salute you!
Thats very well done James. Bung some Chris Blythe colours on there and were away! ;)
Great toilet-dunking panel :)
Nice work, James. Page 2 is certainly alot better than my original. The head down the toilet panel is fantastic. Wish I'd thought of drawing it from that p.o.v. (GNASH GNASH.) Really strong figure drawing as well (love the hands.) Did you use any reference? Nicely inked too. Good luck.
Cliff
Quote from: Artdroid Robinson on 02 March, 2010, 07:29:41 PM
Nice work, James.
Yowza! Praise, indeed!
Three posts in two-and-a-half years, Mr Robinson? Why not stick around? Put your feet up. Have a beer! Enter the art comp ... no, on second thoughts, don't!
Cheers
Jim
Clearly Tharg's working you too hard Robinson Droid. Hang about and have a chat. Even if Jim's attempting to barr you from the art compos.....
Are we allowed to swear anymore?
Fucking hell!
And, yeah, I do use quite a lot of reference. Whatever works, eh?
I like that second page there by the way. Much improved and easier to follow than your first attempt at the first page.
Good inking. I don't know much else but I like your clean style.
Quote from: James on 02 March, 2010, 04:04:37 PM
Again, feel free to wade in with your crits.
The only thing I'd mention as a reader (rather than an artist), I'm struggling to understand the lighting in panel 1. The shadow on the wall suggests the primary light source is right of panel, but the shadows on the boy's face suggest the main light is left of panel, which is causing me a bit of brain ache!
Cheers
Jim
Lovely Lovely stuff James!
Kudos for having the cajones to put them up for public crits. This is a VERY solid page...The only thing I can think to suggest to improve this, is the final panel. The 2 fighting figures have a bit of stiffness to them, the left leg of the falling fellow's foreshortening is very close, but not quite working for me.
I had to look VERY hard to nit pick this bit, and I only did so since you asked.
Great work.
That's a great page James - I'd be delighted to see that in my prog, crystal clear and interesting storytelling too .
Great to see Cliff posting here! Mr. Robinson, hope you've taken note of the excitement that ensues on this forum every time you turn in an episode, never mind two in a row.
Quote from: TordelBack on 02 March, 2010, 10:13:16 PM
Mr. Robinson, hope you've taken note of the excitement that ensues on this forum every time you turn in an episode, never mind two in a row.
He could probably do more if some selfish bastiches on here didn't keep distracting him with commissions!
Cheers
Jim
It is a very strong page indeed with some top notch visual storytelling going on and you can follow the story just fine without the lettering.
Quote from: Gibson Quarter on 02 March, 2010, 09:34:48 PMKudos for having the cajones to put them up for public crits. This is a VERY solid page...The only thing I can think to suggest to improve this, is the final panel. The 2 fighting figures have a bit of stiffness to them, the left leg of the falling fellow's foreshortening is very close, but not quite working for me.
I had to look VERY hard to nit pick this bit, and I only did so since you asked.
Indeed. Jim is right about the lighting in the first panel and I'm happy to take GQ's word on the foreshortening on the last one. What struck me about the latter is that the only way you could get the motion in that figure (falling straight back, head flying back and blood and spit flying from the mouth) is through a strong upward blow (an upper cut or a knee). He is seen hitting him right to left as we look at it which would tend to whip the head over to the left (in the direction of the force) and would tend to twist the body with the legs staying fairly straight, the torso twisting a bit at the waist and the shoulders turning as the head whips round.
That said it is only because I've gone through it with a fine toothcomb and in a normal issue with text, SFX and the like you'd be very unlikely to notice.
Cheers for the comments, kids. My thoughts tomorrow. But before bed a sneaky peaky at page 3.
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_dSX0evHh5t0/S42Q7m8eXjI/AAAAAAAAAC0/H83O8fycqOY/s320/Cadet+mash.jpg)
Great stuff James. You can see everything clearly and tell what's going on without those pesky word ballooon thingies. :cool:
That's a cracking page James. The figurative drawing is far superior to some of the work we've seen in the prog and even without speech bubbles you can follow the story easily.
Good luck.
All I'm going to say is that James should stop drokking around with this and get the BAD complany strip he's supposed to be working on done!
Nah- great to see you still pushing yourself.
Oh- and sort your email out! I don't want any electrical goods! :)
Thats next Bolt, I promise! I'm outta work at the moment so everyday's a drawing day.
Sorry about the spam, my missus clicked on a spam link and it's all gone horribly wrong since then.
Outta work? Ah, that's Stomm.
Did you see the mail from Dan Whiston about paid work?
The birthday commision? Yeah, just waiting for confirmation from him.
Quote from: Bolt-01 on 03 March, 2010, 12:47:42 PM
the BAD complany strip
will that have 'Klicky klicky Pentax!' in it? :D
My hat is off to you James, I'm loving the work you've produced so far.
Alright Dudes,
Heres my shot at the Cycle of Violence script, sent it to Tharg today-
been really impressed with what James has done with this so far too!
(http://i45.tinypic.com/b7xwko.jpg)
(http://i46.tinypic.com/a4mya1.jpg)
(http://i49.tinypic.com/2n7x2r.jpg)
(http://i46.tinypic.com/259j0up.jpg)
(http://i50.tinypic.com/mc8cc5.jpg)
(http://i48.tinypic.com/2u46kix.jpg)
So fingers crossed and I'll wait and see.....
Best of luck Jase, it looks fantastic.
cheers matey!
There's some seriously talented folk having a go at these - I hope we see a wave of new talent in the prog soon. Best of luck chaps.
Amazing work Jase, love that block war in particular, and the facial expressions on the last page are outstanding! If I was to offer one humble criticism, it's interesting that Jase's go seems to have the same problem (for me) on the first page as on James' uncorrected version. After those brilliant opening panels, the bottom three don't quite scan in the right order for my aged brain. By page 2 I'm wondering why Dredd missed the first time.
Fascinating to see two takes on the same script back-to-back, and both have their merits! Love the stark black and white of both - and I love all the constructive criticism given by board members. What a great place this is.
Love the use of shadows Jase. Adds a sort of Film Noir look to some of your panels.
Great stuff, Jase. I agree with System, there's definitely film noir in there - which is good!
If I was to be really picky about it, I think the idea was that the first page took place twenty (?) years prior to the last, so Dredd would've been holding the earlier version of the Lawgiver. But that's being picky for the sake of it, and I doubt it makes too much of a difference on a sample submission.
Best of luck and let us know what Tharg says!
Will do, and thanks for the comments everyone.
Well done Jase for submitting your piece, I'd be very interested to hear when you get a reply, and any feedback you get. How long did it take you?
I've just finished page 3, which has seemed to drag on most of this week. Once again I welcome your feedback.
(http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/065/8/2/Dredd_Violence_3_by_JamesKircough.jpg)
Hi James, lovely inking (though I think you could do with adding some texture in there...)
Most of what's wrong, I think, can be corrected easily in photoshop:
panel 1: head and hand too big.
Panel 3: The perspective on that hand isn't working; it's giving the impression of a really weird big hand. I'd be inclined to rethink it - and maybe just redraw the hand and arm without bothering with the forced perspective (from the distance the figure is at, you wouldn't get a great deal of foreshortening - the further away you are from something the less obvious foreshortening is).
Panel 5: I'd shrink the judges head/helmet a little.
Page 6: I'd shrink both judges heads - the one facing us could do with a decent shrink down.
-pj
(BTW: This happens a lot in my work; I'm constantly shrinking/enlarging heads and other body parts to get them to look right...)
Cheers for the comments PJ.
I already shrunk the panel 5 head down loads! I can see what you mean about the hand in panel 3, couldn't get it looking right. Thee's a lot in this page I'm not as happy about, just seemed to go on and on, a lot of the detail in the Big Meg shot is to blame for that I suppose.
Update time!
I've tweaked some of the faults in page 3 and finished page 4 in record time (for me!).
I won't repost page 3, here's 4:
(http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/069/1/f/Dredd_Violence_4_by_JamesKircough.jpg)
I'm really happy with this page, the Judge in the rain shot is great, as is the sillohuetted Judge on his bike. The only bit i'm not 100% on is the chap in panel 3, he looks abit stiff.
My Big Meg image came out alright too, I was dreading that panel but it came quite easily.
Quote from: James on 10 March, 2010, 02:00:58 PMI'm really happy with this page, the Judge in the rain shot is great, as is the sillohuetted Judge on his bike.
So you should be - the "judge in the rain" is a classic and you've done a great job with it!!
I admire your bold use of heavy blacks James. Takes balls, that. Very confident style and yeah, that judge in the rain panel is very satisfying indeed.
Quote from: mygrimmbrother on 10 March, 2010, 04:45:38 PM
I admire your bold use of heavy blacks James. Takes balls, that. Very confident style and yeah, that judge in the rain panel is very satisfying indeed.
Agree 100%. Getting a McCarthy vibe off that whole page, and that is High Praise Indeed.
Yup, lovely stuff James, but.......repost page 3! :lol: Your inking is nice. But I agree with PJ. A little texture here and there would really liven it up. It looks a little sterile at the moment. I dont mean that as harshly as it sounds! ;)
Here's pages 5 and 6. Off to Tharg tomorrow, let's see what he says.
(http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/076/a/a/Dredd_violence_5_by_JamesKircough.jpg)
(http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2010/076/9/2/Dredd_violence_6_by_JamesKircough.jpg)
Good luck to you James and a belated good luck to you Jase, some really nice work there boys.
all the best
filip
Cheers Mate, and nice work on the last two pages James, love that shattered mirror shot on the last page. Been two weeks since I sent my submission to Tharg, no way of knowing whether its sticking out of his bin or hes swatting thrill suckers with it or its still in a giant pile of unopened submissions- I know people will have waited absolutely ages for any response in the past so for me I'm continuing with my sketch card sets and then thinking about what comic stuff I can attempt next- and good luck with the submission yourself James.
QuoteBeen two weeks since I sent my submission to Tharg, no way of knowing whether its sticking out of his bin or hes swatting thrill suckers with it or its still in a giant pile of unopened submissions
Remember that The Mighty One and Mrs Tharg have just had a baby, so it might be a while yet...
Page 4 is a belter James. The Judge in the rain is an outstanding panel.
Great work everyone! Your work inspired me to check out the sample scripts, and I have begun work on Ahab/Old Red.
Please keep in mind that the following is a scan of a reduced photocopy of some pencils (hence some of the black blobby bits, damned dirty photocopier). Given that they say you should never submit the actual art work, how do you best go about submitting pencilled work. I found that the photocopier at work only recognised a lot of the lines when I put the "darkness" up to the max, and even then some of the lines are very faint. Hence I have included a link to a slightly bigger version in case anyone wants a better look.
(http://pics.livejournal.com/ultharkitty/pic/000tdbgz)
http://pics.livejournal.com/ultharkitty/pic/000tezda
It's like The Wicker Man meets Moby Dick as drawn by Robert Crumb and Bryan Talbot on acid!
Outrageous but very original art, very distinctive style. Reminds me of Simon Harrison's work on Strontium Dog back in the early nineties. Lot's of detail you really worked hard on this and it shows.
Keep pitching 'em Cthulouis!! :thumbsup:
Really great art on this thread (so no different from the other threads then!) Very envious of you guys talents. Good luck with your entries.
Cthulouis that is brilliant! Would love to see more.
Thanks for the kind words guys. I'll hopefully have the second page up on monday, as thats when I'll next be able to use work's photocopier. Better go finish it, I suppose.
Tharg's seen photocopied pencils before - don't worry too much. THOUGH, 2000AD doesn't use too many PENCIL artists - occasionally you'll get a penciller and inker combo, but tooth just isn't set up to work in that way. If you're capable of inking your work you should.
-pj
Cheers for the advice. Tharg advises that you concentrate on getting good at pencils before concentrating at getting good at inking, so that's what I'm trying at the moment. I'll try having a go at inking it once I've finished the whole thing.
Page 2:
(http://pics.livejournal.com/ultharkitty/pic/000tf7et)
(I would also like to point out that I did not mean to imply in my previous comment that by finishing this strip I will suddenly have mastered pencils enough to move onto inks, but more that I might as well give inks a try afterwards, because if I wait till I'm actually good enough at pencils, I will be either old or dead.)
Good stuff Cthulouis, as others have said it's a refreshing style. Might I suggest you go for a more adventurous panel layout in places?
Thanks, might try something more adventurous in the future, but I've purposefully tried to keep it simple here. Walking before running and all that.
Well, various stupid things held up the work on this, but here we go. This is the first time I have completed a comic based on someone else's script, so even though I can see plenty wrong with it, I still have a feeling of accomplishment, and feel like I have learnt loads. Now I just need to pick which sample script I am doing next.
(http://pics.livejournal.com/ultharkitty/pic/000wadzp)
(http://pics.livejournal.com/ultharkitty/pic/000wbpy4)
(http://pics.livejournal.com/ultharkitty/pic/000wceey)
(http://pics.livejournal.com/ultharkitty/pic/000wda0h)
(http://pics.livejournal.com/ultharkitty/pic/000weyee)
That's really bold and beautiful work.
Quote from: nev on 03 May, 2010, 08:42:56 PMThat's really bold and beautiful work.
And bonkers.
I always felt like the art for this story needed to be madder and Cthulouis delivers that in spades.
That's some very fine work there, Cthulouis. As an amateur writer, I'm always on the look out for artists needing scripts to practice on. PM me if you fancy practicing collaborating on something.
Terrific stuff Cthulouis. The whale being sawn up on the 2nd page is particular inspired as is the graphic for the psychedelic whalesong. Yellow submarine meets Quentin Tarantino!
That's class Cthulouis! I really want to see it lettered up now.
Loving the style!
Quote from: The Phantom Artist on 04 May, 2010, 02:04:43 PM
Loving the style!
Welcome on board. I see you are taking a stab at a sample script too and looking at your work it appears we are in for a treat. Feel free to show us the work in progress and hopefully you should get some handy feedback. Good luck and don't forget the forum competitions (voting should start on the last one any minute now and a new one should start soon).
Thanks again for the complements, everyone.
Glad you liked the whale getting chopped up, Iamthesystem, as I was really unsure that that panel had worked.
I'm afraid, Kerrin, that the last time I tried to put one lousy speech bubble onto some art in photo-shop I ended up getting very frustrated over my inability to master the text function on that programme, so I won't personally be lettering it up anytime soon.
I have also had a crack at the Cycle of Violence sample script and periodically put up coloured pages in the art thread. I finally finished colouring it last week. In true artist fashion, I hate it already and reckon I could have done everything a lot better, especially after getting a lot of feedback on the lineart at Hi-Ex.
Nonetheless I shall post it in its entirety here:
(http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/438/60890019.jpg)
(http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/912/41304559.jpg)
(http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/2073/65115876.jpg)
(http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/6210/21538483.jpg)
(http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/9713/23435018.jpg)
(http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/2065/74448016.jpg)
Quote from: davethomson on 05 May, 2010, 10:56:51 AM
Nonetheless I shall post it in its entirety here:
There's a lot to like here, Dave! The storytelling is concise, the layouts are clear and your drawing is pretty solid. Occasionally, a figure doesn't convince (Pg6, Panel 2, for instance -- but this is a very odd exception) and your hands, bane of most artists' lives, could use a little work. On top of that, your use of lighting is frequently lovely, and the sense of atmosphere it adds goes a long way to making your work stand out.
As you know, we have some proper art droids round here, whose judgement you should give much more consideration to, but I don't think these samples are a million miles off being prog-worthy.
One thing, though, is the lettering (you knew I was going to mention that, right?) ... unless you're up to a professional standard, lettering your art samples distracts from the quality of the art. Even if you
are up to professional standard, Tharg is unlikely to invite you to letter your own work, so leave the lettering and put the extra time into the artwork!
Cheers
Jim
On first glance, the second to last panel is confusing - the red splatter makes it look as if the bloke is being shot - overall there are too many of these photoshoppy flourishes throughout for my liking - in many cases they work against the artwork. Less is often more with computer colouring. Your colouring style is really nice but imo you need to dial it back a notch or two.
Have to agree with Jim that the lettering and logos detract from the artwork.
There are some really nice panels, but also some weaker ones. Maintaining consistency of quality is very hard to do - I know from experience. The last couple of pages seem rushed in comparison to the first few.
I think your buildings and city blocks need more work - they aren't very convincing.
I think your drawing style could benefit a from a bit of grit or texture - for example pg2 panel 2 - the statue looks a bit 'soft'. With a couple of exceptions the backgrounds lack detail and texture.
Sorry if that's too negative - overall it's really nice work and you are definitely on to something. There are a few standout panels that are really great. I'll probably post a page or two of my own here at some point and everyone can tear it to shreds! :)
As a poor artist, I can't really find anything negative to say about your artwork. I will, however, point out that there are mistakes in the lettering. I.e., from P3 alone there's:
The streets were everything he they'd be...
For four years he build a solid reputation...
and
They knew what kind of judge he was, the skills the brought to the job.
Apart from this (writer's) criticism, I see a lot to love here. Well done, it's gorgeous work. If you're looking for a writer to work with, allow me to pimp myself out here :lol:
Hi Dave, I'm working on this script myself so feel free to crit the hell out of mine when I post it up. Before I get started, I'll just say that I post the crits I would like to receive...
Overall, I think there's some pretty solid stuff here but there are minor niggles which really effect the overall quality. I'll break it down through the pages.
Page 1
Panel 1, the anatomy on her right arm looks off. I think it's the perspective on the upper arm, it looks really short. I could be wrong, but it also looks like her arms aren't long enough, her hands look like they'd fall just below her waist when they should fall about 6 inches lower. Otherwise, I like the angle and the debris is great.
Panel 2, the figure of the mother is too small and her right arm has moved from where it was established in panel 1, as has the broken picture frame. Following the line of Dredd's arm, the Lawgiver should be rotated more towards us so that we can see more of the top. Also, it looks like you're slightly off model with the gun making a cross between a mk1 and a mk2. It's a minor detail but the fan boys go nuts for this sort of thing. Klein snr's feet look a little too small but other than that there's some nice energy and movement. Attention to detail on the apartment is really nice in this panel.
Panel 3, Klein jr doesn't look pissed enough. He's supposed to be really angry and his expression here is very matter of fact, which is kinda cool but not what the script is asking for.
Panel 4, the composition of this panel is a little weak, I see what you're going for, but there's not enough dead space for the dialogue to breath. Also, Klein snr looks a little too composed and almost caring when he should be looking wired. I'm not sold on the character here. Also, Klein jr's expression doesn't work due to the previous panel's set up.
Panel 5, Dredd's a great shot, but with Klein jr in the way, even he'd need to be looking at the target. It's a minor niggle in an otherwise great panel, but I think it's an important thing.
Page 2
Panel 1, no complaints here.
Panel 2, looks a little too clean as was said before. Also, with the fonts you've used, I'm thinking more Saturday morning cartoon than Mega City 1. I'm not a big fan of photo's being used for backgrounds in comics and combined with the cloud mist and statue, it looks more like Olympus I'm afraid.
Panel 3, I love what you've got going on in the background with the other students, but Klein seems to be daydreaming rather than listening intently to the tutor, maybe it's the res of the shot but he doesn't seem to even be looking at the teacher, he just looks bored... The anatomy on the teacher's arm is off too, the upper arm is disproportionate to the forearm.
Panel 4, I would not want to use that toilet, the seat is huouge! The water is also too high. It's otherwise a lovely panel, but a different angle might have been nice?
Panel 5, great panel, nice atmospheric, brooding shot.
Panel 6, funnily enough this mirrors the layout of my version almost exactly. The only thing I would say is that the figures are a little stiff. Klein is supposed to beating the snot out of these guys, so a two handed 'power strike' with the daystick would have been nice.
Page 3
Panel 1, the helm doesn't look right in this panel, I'm not sure why. I can see that you've based it on Colin MacNeil's version from 'Cadet' but what worked with his style doesn't quite sit right with yours. That might just be my own opinion though.
Panels 2 and 3, nothing bad here, both work very well indeed!
Panel 4, I think the biggest issue here is the perspective. Individually, everything works brilliantly (my personal preference is for the Lawmaster to be more sleek and less boxy, but that all subjective). The figures on the right appear to be on a ledge above the street level (love the Human Taxidermy sign, brilliant). I think the main problem is that Klein and the bike are too small. Should be a simple photoshop fix. Again, your attention to detail on the background elements and debris is brilliant.
Panels 5 and 6, no complaints here except a minor point with the Lawgiver in panle 5, it looks like a movie version...
Page 4
Panel 1, same as with page 1 panel 1, the perspective on her left upper arm is off making it look too small. Her hands are also a little wonky, particularly where the thumb joins the palm. Other than that, very nice.
Panels 2-6, on the whole no major problems, the buildings look alittle flat and would benefit from a little texturing perhaps but other than that, good stuff!
Page 5
I really like this page. My only real problem is panel 5, with the shot at this angle, Klein would need to be on his knees. Nice echoing of page 1 in panel 6, but again, it would be nice to see the top of Dredd's gun.
Page 6
This is, by far, the weakest page and as was said earlier looks rushed.
Panels 1 and 3 are pretty good on the whole, just Dredd's helmet looks a little wonky in panel 3, the angles don't read right.
Panel 2, Klein's face has suddenly gone Warner Bros, there's almost a very distinct style change making him look very cartoony, the same can be said for Panel 4 too. Also, in panel 4, the anatomy of his face is wrong, his right ear is too far back. You've also not reflected the shoulder pads...
Panel 5, I can see what you were going for here with the red burst in the bg, but it does look like he's been shot when you couple it with the exression. Also, the composition is a little flat, tilting the panel a little, removing the border, a slight up angle, could have made this really pop.
Panel 6, again, I'd prefer it if Dredd was looking at Klein but otherwise nice panel again.
Stylistically, I really like what you've got going on here. Your attention to background detail is spot on. I have an issue with your Lawgivers, I see what you were trying to do with showing the passage of time, but I would have preferred it if you'd used a mk1 for page 1 and then used a mk2 for the rest (although my version currently has mk2 throughout so I will now be changing that ;)). I really like that you've given Klein the moles on his face so that you have the continuity over the years and you can tell it's the same character.
As has been said by others, the lettering is very weak, and I would like to see the pages without it. Your story telling is pretty sharp, but then I know the script and have the dialogue on the pages too, so that may be altering my perseption somewhat.
Was it Tharg you showed this to at Hi-Ex? What was the overall feedback you received? My guess would be that it was pretty positive...
Anyway, I've rambled on enough, time to let someone else have a go :)
Thanks for the crits Jim, Shark, Rad and Phantom!
Don't worry about being negative in your crits, that's what I like. I admit that this six pager was done very fast, it was drawn and inked in 7 days and it does show as it reaches the end. There is a lot I liked about this but and a lot I felt I could have done better which is echoed in the fantastic crits you chaps have given me.
I hope to be getting more strips done soon, including a futureshock styled script for my folio at Bristol which I will also post up on the Common sometime soon and I would be very grateful if you guys to tear it to shreds for me.
As for my lettering, I know it is awful but I shall learn it. For submitting it to anyone I would probably not include it but I wanted to show it here to get some feedback on it. I will be poring over your guide for my next attempt Jim as it is brilliant!
I got some good feedback at Hi-Ex though there were not many editors to show it to. The artists there gave me some really good crits though due to it being a convention they didn't really have the time to pick it apart like you chaps.
Here's a little sneaky peak from page 1 of Cycle of Violence. You can probably tell it's panel 3 and I'm happy with how it's turned out. This is my first real go at seriously working exclusively digitally. More to come over the weekend hopefully...
(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b94/PhantomGrafix/pg1panel3.jpg)
Quote from: The Phantom Artist on 06 May, 2010, 11:08:33 PM
(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b94/PhantomGrafix/pg1panel3.jpg)
Ooh la la, very beautiful tonal work.
Okay, I've given crits and now it's time to get some. Here's the WIP for page one of Cycle of Violence. With the exception of a little tidying up of the inks in panel 4 (and obviously Dredd in panel 5) the page is almost complete. I tried to go for more of a crack/ meth house when designing the apartment (I've been watching a lot of Breaking Bad lately) and wanted to go for more squalor than has been previously shown. One of the things I've noticed with other versions of this script that have been posted is that mum and dad Klein (and the apartment to a degree) don't look that bad. The inference I got from the script is that dad is a junkie and mum hooks to provide him with a fix and this is what I was trying to get across.
Anyway, enough explanation, rip me a new one!
(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b94/PhantomGrafix/pp1.jpg)
Well what instantly strikes me, in comparison to the strip posted above, is where does the title banner fit in the opening panels?
Quote from: Dunk! on 20 May, 2010, 09:03:19 AM
Well what instantly strikes me, in comparison to the strip posted above, is where does the title banner fit in the opening panels?
Fair point well made, but there's ample space in the last panel for title and credits... In all honesty, while it wasn't that I didn't think about it, as there's no specific format that says the title and credits
have to go in the first panel, I figured I'd have them fit in where there was room (which just happens to be the last, as yet incomplete,panel).
The panel choices (particularly panel 2) differ slightly from what is asked for in the script because I wanted to build the tension more in this page, almost going for a spaghetti western stand off feeling, culminating in the money shot in panel 5. That is why I went for a low angle in panel 2 rather than the scripted high angle as it shows (I feel) more threat. High shots generally detach the viewer from the action and I really want to immerse them in it.
(The following is all IMHO - so, you know... ymmv)
I'm struck by a couple of things: lack of decent amount of room for panels/dialogue - you really need to leave about a quarter of the panel as breathing space for text - this is to give the letterer options and the lack of decent establishing shot - putting dredd, the woman, the kid et all in context.
Panel 1 will require very careful placement for the caption to not overlap the figure.
Panel 2 - if the captions go to the top left, will sit on top of Dredd's leg - reducing an already vague leg shape into a mostly meaningless green lump - so the captions will have to go to the top right - not always the best location for captions. (and I'm assuming that's Dredd's leg, could be another Judge? Who knows...) Also: the Room looks grotty - but is it a room? an underground bunker? a massive lift? Who knows - there's not enough there to sell it as anything other than 'box shaped location with graffiti'.
Panel 3 - captions/dialogue will have to overlap the face - or fall off panel and the stark black background, has the effect of making this look like it might be a flashback.
Panel 4 - has a reasonable space for text, though still feels very cramped owing to the cropping around the child's face.
Story telling involves clarity - you need to make sure all of the reader understands everything that's happening very quickly - unless you're deliberately trying to keep stuff vague / confusing (the classic example is the scene where you expect the swat team to open buffalo bill's door while Jodie Foster is going to some innocent persons door in Hannibal - it's a great example of confusing the viewer with story telling)
BTW: If the script calls for a specific angle, then do it - figure out another way to build the tension you want - don't forget, Tharg is going to see this page A LOT - yours will stand out, but it'll be for the wrong reason. (Also: if you manage to catch a break, and get a gig and you become the artist who disregards scripts - writers won't want to work with you - and a lot of work comes via writer recommendations)
(And, to prove it's not all bad: that's some pretty impressive figure drawing on panel 1)
-pj
Interesting insight here, PJ! As a wanna-be pro comics writer, reading your feedback on the ART puts in to perspective what artists have to do, and I can work a little better for them; i.e., limit panels and text on pages and so forth...
Thanks!
Thanks for taking the time to go over my stuff PJ, I really appreciate it. I'll respond to your points in order...
I'm struck by a couple of things: lack of decent amount of room for panels/dialogue - you really need to leave about a quarter of the panel as breathing space for text - this is to give the letterer options and the lack of decent establishing shot - putting dredd, the woman, the kid et all in context.
On reflection, I agree completely. The text in the script doesn't seem to be too heavy and as it's all (with the exception of panels 3 and 4 ) captioned, I thought that the placement could be a little free-er. Rookie error I guess.
Panel 1 will require very careful placement for the caption to not overlap the figure.
Yeah, I see that now. The beauty of Photoshop (or Manga Studio in this case) is that I can reduce her down with relative ease to allow more room.
Panel 2 - if the captions go to the top left, will sit on top of Dredd's leg - reducing an already vague leg shape into a mostly meaningless green lump - so the captions will have to go to the top right - not always the best location for captions. (and I'm assuming that's Dredd's leg, could be another Judge? Who knows...) Also: the Room looks grotty - but is it a room? an underground bunker? a massive lift? Who knows - there's not enough there to sell it as anything other than 'box shaped location with graffiti'.
With reference to the look of the location, I struggled with that myself. What I didn't want it to look like was something out of Dredd meets Cosby just with a smashed coffee table and maybe a ripped soda. I wanted it to look like a drug den, to really show the background of Klein Jr. On reflection, yep, I over did the graffiti and maybe I could use more furniture (of some description) in the apartment.
Panel 3 - captions/dialogue will have to overlap the face - or fall off panel and the stark black background, has the effect of making this look like it might be a flashback.
There is (as you've no doubt seen already) very little dialogue in this panel and, while there's not much room, it should be sufficient. I do agree with the black borders, I'd probably get rid of them and just have the eyes floating.]
Panel 4 - has a reasonable space for text, though still feels very cramped owing to the cropping around the child's face.
This was very deliberate. I wanted to give the impression of claustrophobia for both the Kleins, Snr that he was facing off against Dredd and couldn't possibly escape and Jnr because he needed to get out from his destructive father.
BTW: If the script calls for a specific angle, then do it - figure out another way to build the tension you want - don't forget, Tharg is going to see this page A LOT - yours will stand out, but it'll be for the wrong reason. (Also: if you manage to catch a break, and get a gig and you become the artist who disregards scripts - writers won't want to work with you - and a lot of work comes via writer recommendations)
Ordinarily, in the past when I've had an idea for a panel change, I've never done it without first discussing it with both the writer and editor and will always bow to their needs for the piece. Here I didn't really have that opportunity. I understand what you're saying though.
(And, to prove it's not all bad: that's some pretty impressive figure drawing on panel 1)
-pj
In all honesty Paul, nothing of what you've said is bad, it's helped me a lot and pointed out some weaknesses that I probably saw in the piece subconsciously anyway.
I'm going to be at Bristol from tomorrow, would you mind if I showed you some more of my stuff over a beer?
Thanks again for the comments!
Sadly won't be a Bristol - one final point (and I'm sure you already know this, but wanted to make it explicit for those that don't)...
When you're actually showing this work to an editor and he gives you a detailed breakdown of what he thinks is right/wrong DO NOT DEFEND YOUR WORK - it'll hurt and you'll want to, understandibly, but DONT - this is the very definition of an unwinnable argument.
If he asks why you did something, respond and tell him what you were thinking, but, otherwise, take it on the chin.
(sent via iPhone so excuse brevity and typos)
Quote from: pauljholden on 20 May, 2010, 10:36:43 AM
When you're actually showing this work to an editor and he gives you a detailed breakdown of what he thinks is right/wrong DO NOT DEFEND YOUR WORK - it'll hurt and you'll want to, understandibly, but DONT - this is the very definition of an unwinnable argument.
That's a beautiful piece of advice PJ - I love that kind of non-nonsense truthery. I can remember reading an article about self-publishing comics and the advice was like
A - This isn't going to change your life, nobody really cares - you'll be lucky if your mum even wants to buy one
B - Stop reading this and draw the f**king thing.
ohoho - !
Quote from: CrazyFoxMachine on 20 May, 2010, 10:41:53 AM
A - This isn't going to change your life, nobody really cares - you'll be lucky if your mum even wants to buy one
B - Stop reading this and draw the f**king thing.
I think I might print that out...
Not really a useful crit or anything but I really like your stuff Dave. Even more impressive that they were done over the course of a week.
I may have mentioned this before, but if you're serious about breaking into comics, one of the first things you should be doing is ditching the online usernames in favour of your real name. You're not only trying to break into comics but you're trying to build brand recognition - with you as the brand - something that's hampered when some people know you as "comicdroidRULZ" online and "John Smith" offline.
-pj
He could always call himself by his online name while offline.
Quote from: pauljholden on 20 May, 2010, 09:44:20 AMI'm struck by a couple of things: ... the lack of decent establishing shot - putting dredd, the woman, the kid et all in context.
This is crucial here and specifically asked for in the script. Now I don't mind artists doing a panel differently as long as it helps the telling of the story without messing something else up further down the line. I'm afraid not having the establishing shot in panel 2 actually hurts the visual storytelling aspect here and I think the editor and/or writer would ask you to redraw this (and given the page layout this might involve redrawing the page). I suspect one of the things experience brings is knowing when you can tinker with the art and when to draw exactly what it says on the page.
Quote from: Jared Katooie on 20 May, 2010, 08:42:54 PM
He could always call himself by his online name while offline.
I am called Emperor in the real world (there are people who only know me as that), which is why I use it online. It is in essence my brand.
I'm fortunate in that I have a pretty rare surname. So I've never had to dream up a silly web handle to begin with because my real name is quite silly enough.
Phantom, if I may call you such a thing, the first thing that jumps out at me is how well the first panel is drawn compared to the rest. I looks like you've used reference for it.
Now, I'm all up for a bit of reference, I use far too much myself, but when it jars against the rest of your style like that it stings a bit.
I'm assuming you did use reference for the shot? If not then I apologise.
Also, just looking back at it now panel 2 looks like he's going in for a spot of anal rape. Sorry.
I feel that OwenWatts would be a HELL of a lame username.
I make my name known pretty clearly in every other net thing I do - so I'm not particularly worried about over saturation of the Fox.
Although being hailed as 'Foxy' by Colin MacNeil on the chatrooms yesterday WAS disturbing.
...I felt as though I should be stabbing crabs
Finally got round to scanning these.
These pages were drawn over a year ago, so during the time since, I'd like to think I've both improved a lot in my drawing skillz, and also I've been able to get a bit of distance so can view them a little more objectively.
So before the knives come out, I'll get in first and list some of the more glaring stuff I'm already aware of! ;)
Script is viewable here:
http://www.2000ad.org/?zone=droid&page=scripts&choice=generation (http://www.2000ad.org/?zone=droid&page=scripts&choice=generation)
**Known issues**
Parmela is rubbish and badly drawn - I'd like to think that I'm a lot better at drawing female characters now. Looking back now, I ballsed up her first appearance, then had to match her in all subsequent panels.
Neither Peart nor Parmela look 'Mega-City' enough - if I were to draw this script again I'd make their dress more eccentric (knee pads, weird McMahon hats etc). Also, their looks and features needs to be more consistent throughout.
Design of Imal is a bit rubbish - he is quite a ridiculous character so it works that he looks a bit cheesy, but I'd do it differently now.
Panels I particularly struggled with:
Pg1
Panel 2: I struggled with how to make it clear that Parmela is holding a Pregnancy test kit - I was going to add a logo to it when I coloured.
Panel 3: Boring, flat composition - could be much more exciting/dramatic.
Pg2
Panel 1: Had loads of problems with this panel - very tricky angle and action.
Panel 5: Not great - would tackle differently now, also Dredd should be more directly at the teleporter.
Pg4
Panel 6: Crap.
Panel 7: Nowhere near dramatic enough. If I was doing this now I'd change the composition and tilt the angle.
Pg5
Panel 5: Lame. Needs redrawing.
Pg 6
Panel 3: Ugly, rushed, could be way better.
Panel 5: Yucky, needs redrawing.
Panels 6,7: Ugh, needs redoing.
Additional notes:
The lack of overall shading is deliberate - the pages are intended to be coloured by me and I add a lot of depth and form etc with colour. If I was drawing for solely B&W print I would have added more tone, shadows etc.
Lack of text on signs, citi-blocks etc - this is all to be added digitally.
(http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/151/c/a/ca3317e527a2402ea2e6d4c51ab396da.jpg)
(http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/151/2/b/Generation_Killer___Page_2_by_TomBerryArtist.jpg)
(http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/151/f/5/Generation_Killer___Page_3_by_TomBerryArtist.jpg)
(http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/151/7/6/Generation_Killer___Page_4_by_TomBerryArtist.jpg)
(http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/151/e/1/Generation_Killer___Page_5_by_TomBerryArtist.jpg)
(http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/151/5/e/Generation_Killer___Page_6_by_TomBerryArtist.jpg)
Your biggest problem Radiator is stiffness - it runs through your figures like a big stiff steel ruler. Unflinching and unbending. You need to start getting some sweeping curves into the figures - I love your cartoony style, but it's not being served well with the lack of bounce in the poses. When I get a chance I'll graffiti all over your artwork so you can see what I mean.
Your other problem (if it is that) is knowing where you'd fit into 2000ad - but that's a problem that Steve Roberts faced too, and he found a place. (And I love his work too...)
-pj
I wanna colour them pages bad - are there inked versions?
As PJ said, stiffness in the odd panel is the main drawback visually and it'd be a shame to let that hold back something so blatantly stylised and unique. Also, I'm sure it's just me, but from the second panel on page one onwards, I found the shape of the buildings in the backgrounds increasingly disturbing.
I love it, Radiator. Brilliant stuff. Your work really appeals to me!
Hey I like that, Radiator. Very funky and unique! I'm getting a Mike McMahon vibe off it. Nice!
Flippin' ace Radman. Like you say, there are things to work on, but overall I love it.
I'm about to favourite every f[spoiler]u[/spoiler]cking page of this over at DeviantArt. Just you try and stop me.
Thanks peeps. The response has been a lot more positive than I expected, but hey there's still time to bring some harsh criticism.
Some very interesting and helpful observations from PJ especially - I must admit that though I knew some of the panel compositions were very flat and dull the 'stiffness' of the figures wasn't something that was entirely obvious to me until you pointed it out. Certainly something to concentrate on in the future!
As for the other point about the suitability of my style for 2000ad, it's not something that I'm going to lose sleep over :) - I'm not seriously touting for work (I've never submitted anything to Tharg) and I won't be any time soon, if ever. I'm aware that my work has a certain 'Marmite' quality - some friends of mine 'get' it, whereas others seem completely uninterested, so I'm used to getting a mixed response.
I draw how I draw - I'm simply not interested in trying for a more 'realistic' style, and if anything my style gets more and more pronounced as time goes by. Though I am capable of drawing in different ways, I consider this my 'true' style and this is the stuff I'm passionate about - I wouldn't want to tone it down.
Unfortunately, my main enemy is
time. For the last year I've been
incredibly busy at work (I rarely get home before 10pm and often work 7 day weeks), and I barely have any free time at all these days - I would love to spend all day on this stuff but the fact is even if I have a whole spare day to dedicate to drawing, it will take me half of it to warm up enough to draw anything at all - let alone strip work which is extremely difficult, time consuming and demanding.
Quote
I wanna colour them pages bad - are there inked versions?
That would be amazing - I
have inked most of it, but tbh did such a horrible job that ideally I'd like to do it again. If you're serious send me a pm and I'll try and get a high res file over to you at some point. As long as you promise to colour the buildings gray and not pink!
I'd love to colour them myself - I actually think half the strength of my work is in the colouring - but as above, I don't have the time at present, and have only got as far as doing some basic separations.
Quote from: radiator on 01 June, 2010, 10:56:55 AM
As for the other point about the suitability of my style for 2000ad, it's not something that I'm going to lose sleep over :) - I'm not seriously touting for work (I've never submitted anything to Tharg) and I won't be any time soon, if ever. I'm aware that my work has a certain 'Marmite' quality - some friends of mine 'get' it, whereas others seem completely uninterested, so I'm used to getting a mixed response.
I draw how I draw - I'm simply not interested in trying for a more 'realistic' style, and if anything my style gets more and more pronounced as time goes by. Though I am capable of drawing in different ways, I consider this my 'true' style and this is the stuff I'm passionate about - I wouldn't want to tone it down.
Good for you - far better to have a voice than not (and, I didn't mean to sound overly negative in the previous post - the only person who can decide if you're right for 2000AD is the editor, and different editors have had different tastes over the years - but Matt's tastes - thank god, seem fairly broad, so certainly worth a punt!
-pj
Quotethe only person who can decide if you're right for 2000AD is the editor, and different editors have had different tastes over the years - but Matt's tastes - thank god, seem fairly broad, so certainly worth a punt!
Yeah - Matt has commissioned a lot of interesting stuff from artists like D'Israeli, Steve Roberts, Rufus, Guy Davis, even your own more out-there stuff, all of which is as stylised, if not more so than my work. As I said, I'm not even currently trying to get comic work, but it's a nice daydream.
10 years or so ago it was an idle daydream for me too - cut my hours down in my dayjob to try and make a half hearted go at it. Sorta worked out ok.
-pj
Well, I'm a freelancer so my work-life can be very unpredictable. I made a conscious decision some time ago that if, worst case scenario, I find myself with no work for the next six months, I'm just gonna stay at home every day and throw myself into my illustration and comic work and really try and make a go of it.
I love that style of yours - it's so different to the usual way of depicting MC1 that it becomes very fresh.
You have mail, Radiator.
I'm a bit worried you assumed I'd colour the phallic buildings pink.
They'd be brown if anything - that's how I roll.
Hi there
New to the forum so please be gentle :)
I've just finished a submission piece and was hoping for some constructive feed back before posting.
I'd stumbled across this thread and forum a little while ago and was pleased to see an active and useful conversation taking place about submissions.
Great stuff!!
The piece can be seen at
http://www.comicspace.com/higashidragon/comics.php?action=gallery&comic_id=28393
or
http://www.kre8uk.net/illustration/judgedredd1.php
Thanks in advance for your time :)
They look great Dragon. The images flow from one to the next. The line art and style fits well. You've left plenty of room for dialogue in all the right places. The only thing that doesn't sit right with me anyway is the BLAM text on the first and last pages. One of these days I really need to give the scripts a go. I've done several works for comics in the past i.e. colourist, cover artist, pin ups and non-sequential interior art. But never proper sequential art.
I like that style, Dragon. i like the shadows and the expressions on peoples faces - there's some good storytelling.
Thanks to both of you - its great to get feedback. i think I need to do some more submission work though.
puggdog - nice site :) thanks for the advice.
staticgirl - great pages over at deviantart ! Are you actively going to print and self publish?
Some of the pages were done before I knew what formatting files needed for publishing so I would probably have to do them again, which is annoying. I might do one day if I ever finish it....Thanks for the compliments though!
Hey everybody,
I've also been working on the sample script Cycle of Violence over the course of a few months now: with working full-time and taking a part-time course in Graphics I havent had much time to dedicate to this so at the moment all I have to show is pencils but I'll post them to get crit on things like lay-out, composition, anatomy etc before I ink (which I havent decided if I'll do traditionally or digitally yet...) but anyway have a gander and please, be honest! (Alternatively, you can view them in my DeviantART gallery: http://redcole84.deviantart.com/ (http://redcole84.deviantart.com/))
N.B. I havent actually read 2000AD since I was a kid so a lot my reference is shoddy and thus MC1, I feel, is visually inconsistent as well as the judge's uniforms etc. so my apologies...
(http://th01.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/i/2010/226/5/b/2000AD_Sample_Page_001_by_RedCole84.jpg)
(http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/226/4/7/2000AD_Sample_Page_002_by_RedCole84.jpg)
(http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2010/226/7/8/2000AD_Sample_Page_003_by_RedCole84.jpg)
(http://th01.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/i/2010/226/d/5/2000AD_Sample_Page_004_by_RedCole84.jpg)
(http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/226/d/0/2000AD_Sample_Page_005_by_RedCole84.jpg)
(http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2010/226/4/a/2000AD_Sample_Page_006_by_RedCole84.jpg)
Welcome to the forum. Those are some very nice pencils - good clear storytelling, natural poses and a sense of movement. I like the variety of viewpoints - Page 2 panel 4 (with the gun and arm in foreground) and the last panel on that page are particularly nicely composed.
Oh, and get reading your progs again Earthlet, there's no excuse!
Hey, thanks for the warm welcome and the compliments: I was worried that some panels are very bland but as I progressed (maybe because it took so long to put these pages together) I tried to take more risks with composition so hopefully that paid off.
And yes, I definitely am going to have to get back into the progs: I've missed MC1!!
Hi Ruairi, Welcome. I quite like these pages of yours. As you say yourself, you can see as they progress that you are getting more comfortable with the subject matter. I wouldn't like to say how suitable the style is for 2000AD. Who knows, apart from the green dude? :D I would say some of the figures look a little strange, beyond being just stylized and there is a lack of depth to the images. But some good work besides these quibbles. ;)
As part of my quest to do a comic a month for the rest of the year, I present August's attempt, the Future Shock "Holed Up" (Script here: http://2000ad.org/?zone=droid&page=scripts&choice=holedup)
(http://pics.livejournal.com/ultharkitty/pic/000xeb3z)
(http://pics.livejournal.com/ultharkitty/pic/000xf1ak)
(http://pics.livejournal.com/ultharkitty/pic/000xg9b4)
(http://pics.livejournal.com/ultharkitty/pic/000xhage)
(http://pics.livejournal.com/ultharkitty/pic/000xkk4y)
Completely amazing - like the 30s art deco style and 60s underground comix all got mashed up together! Top!
Cheers! Humility prompts me to point out that the mix up is pretty much mapped out in the script, so I can't really take much credit for that.
1:2 - awesome panel! Some seriously cool creature/robot design throughout the strip. I like the heavy black backgrounds used through the first two pages - I think several later panels will minimal b.g. could use the same treatment. Otherwise, great work!
Quote from: locustsofdeath! on 16 August, 2010, 02:26:40 PM
I think several later panels will minimal b.g. could use the same treatment.
Yeah, I started rushing towards the end. I justified this to myself by remembering the original was printed in colour, so was leaving somewhere for some colour to go, but I know this is a feeble excuse. I was also being perhaps overly cautious when it came to guessing how much room the speech bubbles would take up. That Vligor is a pretty verbose guy.
Really I was just wanting to clear the decks before a certain script turned up in my inbox :D
Warhammer meets Metropolis meets Angry pencil from the old NME. Very original style.
Quote from: Darren Stephens on 14 August, 2010, 03:50:11 PM
Hi Ruairi, Welcome. I quite like these pages of yours. As you say yourself, you can see as they progress that you are getting more comfortable with the subject matter. I wouldn't like to say how suitable the style is for 2000AD. Who knows, apart from the green dude? :D I would say some of the figures look a little strange, beyond being just stylized and there is a lack of depth to the images. But some good work besides these quibbles. ;)
Thanks for taking the time and for the welcome. You're spot on the mark with the lack of depth - I can see exactly where I've gone wrong with quite a few panels now and I'd like to take some time to fix a number of them. I've also spotted at least one strange-looking character and now he's buggin the hell outta me!
I'm hopin, when I fix these problems, Tharg will at least consider the work even if it isn't traditional 2000AD fare... but we'll see, right?
the more comics you do the less convincing it will take. :) Good luck Ruairi!
Seeing some great stuff on this forum!!
Ruairi - nice pencils - love the difference in weights - its very graphic.
Cthulouis - cool rendition of holed up - I just finished that one myself so I'll pop it up here now before I send
I love the way there are so many styles and interpretations to see here
If anyone could crit for me I'd be greatful :)
(http://www.kre8uk.net/illustration/images/holedup/72/page1.jpg)
(http://www.kre8uk.net/illustration/images/holedup/72/page2.jpg)
(http://www.kre8uk.net/illustration/images/holedup/72/page3.jpg)
(http://www.kre8uk.net/illustration/images/holedup/72/page4.jpg)
(http://www.kre8uk.net/illustration/images/holedup/72/page5.jpg)
Damn that's awesome. I especially like the spacecraft. Very cool.
That's really cool, puts me in mind of Steve Dillon stuff like Axel Pressbutton.
Well Mr Dragon that is top-quality there - prog-worthy, in fact. I also agree with the Pressbutton-era Steve Dillon parallels, surely a sign of great things to come.
I'm also very happy to see two very different takes on the same script, Cthulouis' is brilliant too. Love the design work there (properly bonkers and it works so well) and the missing head spike is lovely touch - the kind of thing that might make the writer wonder why he never thought of that.
High praise indeed! Many Thanks to all who commented. Its now in the post :o
Just to echo what others have said, that's some damn fine strip work there Higashi.
Great stuff, Higashi, Some really nice panels. Just don't include lettering on your submissions as Tharg won't be looking for you to provide it. :)
Those are two great, yet contrasting takes on the Future Shock:
Cthulouis - I love how imaginative and kinetic your interpretation is, I think it would really benefit from some vibrant colouring.
Higashi - I'm envious of your clean pencilling, the great use of contrast and how tight those lines are. Also, thanks for the comments on my work :)
Best of luck to both you guys!
Cheers!
I'm looking forward to seeing your work inked, the panel on page one where Dredd's shadow emphasises the smallness of the room being a personal favourite.
Also, being a big fan of randomly inserted art jokes, I love the bit on page five, where Dredd smashes apart the door that had already been perfectly well kicked open. That Dredd, he shows the youngsters how it's done!
Quote from: Cthulouis on 19 August, 2010, 06:48:35 AM
Also, being a big fan of randomly inserted art jokes, I love the bit on page five, where Dredd smashes apart the door that had already been perfectly well kicked open. That Dredd, he shows the youngsters how it's done!
Ha! So happy you noticed!!! Not content with a door being kicked open, ol' Dredd wants to kick the thing right off the hinges...
FINALLY(!) got these bad boys coloured...!
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k26/radiator_2006/Pg1_FINAL_Flat_low.jpg)
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k26/radiator_2006/Pg2_FINAL_Flat_Low.jpg)
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k26/radiator_2006/Pg3_FINAL_Flat_Low.jpg)
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k26/radiator_2006/Pg4_FINAL_Flat_Low.jpg)
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k26/radiator_2006/Pg5_FINAL_Flat_low.jpg)
(http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k26/radiator_2006/Pg6_FINAL_Flat_Low.jpg)
Ace!
I'd love to see you do a Hewligans Haircut/Time Flies sort of thing
Rad- Would you like those lettering?
Mail me if you do.
Love it. :D
Bolt, I would LOVE for someone to letter a page or two! I'll send a PM.
For reference, the original script can be read here: http://www.2000ad.org/?zone=droid&page=scripts&choice=generation (http://www.2000ad.org/?zone=droid&page=scripts&choice=generation)
Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom Tom
TOM
TOM BERRY
TOM BERRY TOM BERRY TOM BERRY
This is great!
Just read the scrip - what an utterly bonkers tale! Great stuff radiator, really original - well done!
That's excellent - there are great camera angles (I especially like the last one on the first page) and a nice feeling of movement in there too.
Darn fine work there. Lettering will just be the cherry on the cake!
Those are great. ;)
That's glorious Radiator!
Incredible! The colouring is spectacular!
Top stuff!
Great stuff Radiator.
I am reminded somewhat of the work of Nigel Kitching...
(http://www.bulletproofcomics.co.uk/media/gallery_plugin/762647697718820/large/273_Frank.jpg)
Very good indeed. Respect for not compromising your style and doing Dredd your way but still sticking to the essence of the character's design. Look forward to seeing it lettered.
Just got permission to post these:
(http://www.futurequake.co.uk/imagebucket/davepersonal/JD-GenerationkillerWeb01.jpg)
(http://www.futurequake.co.uk/imagebucket/davepersonal/JD-GenerationkillerWeb02.jpg)
(http://www.futurequake.co.uk/imagebucket/davepersonal/JD-GenerationkillerWeb03.jpg)
(http://www.futurequake.co.uk/imagebucket/davepersonal/JD-GenerationkillerWeb04.jpg)
(http://www.futurequake.co.uk/imagebucket/davepersonal/JD-GenerationkillerWeb05.jpg)
(http://www.futurequake.co.uk/imagebucket/davepersonal/JD-GenerationkillerWeb06.jpg)
Brilliant. :D
Ditto. Great stuff.
That wouldn't look out of place (imo) in the prog, great stuff. :D
Great stuff guys - looks great!
Quote from: BMB on 04 October, 2010, 02:03:28 AM
That wouldn't look out of place (imo) in the prog, great stuff. :D
I second this. In fact I'd prefer it over some of the things in the prog.
great comic radiator! I really like your style. :D
It certainly makes for a quality, online read for free. Excellent.
Thanks for all the nice comments, and special thanks to Bolt for the lettering job - amazing how it suddenly looks like a 'proper' comic when it's lettered.
I'm very aware of the various faults in the strip (loss of confidence in my drawing being one of the main reasons it took me so long to finish the damn thing), but it's all a learning experience and I feel that the next thing I do will be of a lot higher standard.
It's excellent actually - I enjoyed reading it.
That was great, easily as good as the Higgins (?) original, and in places more inventive - especially the last panel.
Love in a radiator...
That is absolutely ace Radiator. Well done sir. The drawing is superb, and as you say, your growing confidence will only improve it further. The colouring job however, is EASILY of a professional standard. Brilliant.
Nice one Bolt.
It was great before, but the letters really do make it the business!
Hey Guys
Played about with the first page of one of the sample scripts... comments always welcome :)
Oh well on with the shampoo displays!! :-[
Quote from: conceptboy on 07 October, 2010, 04:12:14 PM
Hey Guys
Played about with the first page of one of the sample scripts...
This is "Holed Up" isn't it? Just so we are all on the same page ;)
Bloody nice I say
VERY bloody nice!
Just thought i would pop this sample page up... ran out of time so thats all i've done
TALES OF TELGUUTH... THE COLOSSAL WEALTH OF KARN FOUL-EYE
comments etc. always welcome
Really strong stuff Conceptboy!
Very nice - !
Your art looks great Conceptboy.
Keep up the good work.
Hello everyone, first post here! There is some great artwork in here! This is my version of the Judge Dredd script,
pg1
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j295/crossface_2006/S20C-410072718060.jpg)
pg2
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j295/crossface_2006/S20C-4100727180402.jpg)
pg3
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j295/crossface_2006/S20C-410072718070.jpg)
pg4
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j295/crossface_2006/S20C-410072718071.jpg)
pg5
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j295/crossface_2006/S20C-410072718080.jpg)
pg6
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j295/crossface_2006/S20C-410072718090.jpg)
Comments and crits most wellcomed
P.S Is 2000ad accepting international submissions?
THAT is very nice.
Nice work, Panos.
My criticisms would be the usual - figure drawing and perspectives need work, and the last page looks very rushed compared to the others.
I'm not much of an artist but I didn't see much wrong with the figure drawing, although occasionally the heads look proportionally a little too large. I'm not sure that's 'wrong' though as plenty of comic styles go for exaggeration in certain areas.
Personally I prefer more a black fill for shadows rather than line shading (except for a first draft/pencils) but I suspect that's a stylistic thing with no right or wrong.
The lawgiver mark 2 looked a bit narrow to me, but that is a legitimate way a lot of artists draw it, including those who appear in the comics, so this is purely a personal taste thing.
I think the art is pretty smashing though, and it tells the story well, which is important. I particularly liked the Judge uniform style change through the years (although would the kid be that old?).
Great stuff.
QuoteI'm not much of an artist but I didn't see much wrong with the figure drawing, although occasionally the heads look proportionally a little too large. I'm not sure that's 'wrong' though as plenty of comic styles go for exaggeration in certain areas.
I'll go into more detail later if I get time, but one thing that jumps out is the hands. While many are fine, there are definitely a few that don't look very convincing.
There's also the issue of scale re: the boy and the man holding the knife on page one - the boy is
tiny compared to the man. Look specifically at the size of the heads... Is a child's head that much smaller than that of a fully grown man?
There are a few other instances of legs and arms being far too long or short, as well as the head size issue - personally I'd say a few look too small.
Overall, imo certain panels look quite heavily photo-ref'd, while other clearly are not, which lends a certain inconsistency to the artwork.
I really like the rain in panels 4:5 and 4:6. Great atmosphere. A few of the posed figures look a little awkward (6:1) and unnatural, but there are also some very dynamic panels (3:5, 5:5 and those rain panels). Nice work overall!
Very nice work Panos. I like that sketchy style. Keep up the good work, hope to see some more.
Very nice. I'm not a great judge of scale and perspective so I won't comment on that. The one crit I would make is that panel 4 on the final page doesn't work for me. I know that he's caught sight of himself in the mirror, but the vertical line makes it look like a seperate panel, which ruins the effect. I would change the position of the mirror to make it more clear.
Other than that, I really like it.
Are you planning on inking it?
Just knocked up the first page for "SorrowHill"... added a bit of colour and a colleague did the lettering... well it beats working on cat food displays!!!
(http://i1026.photobucket.com/albums/y322/conceptboy1/1-colour-sorrow.jpg)
Always welcome feedback and comments..
Very nice!
I started drawing this strip too but gave up
Might go back and have another go
That's some good looking work there conceptboy!
Brilliant work Panos. I agree with Mardroid about the shading, but that copuld just be personal taste.
'SorrowHill' looks good, Conceptboy. Well drawn and beautifully coloured.
Hello all
I decided to post my drawings. All of the pages are already inked, now i am working on colours and I'm hoping to post them sometime soon.
Here we go:
(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w6/3ciona/jd_cov_pg1.jpg)
(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w6/3ciona/jd_cov_pg2.jpg)
(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w6/3ciona/jd_cov_pg3.jpg)
(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w6/3ciona/jd_cov_pg4.jpg)
(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w6/3ciona/jd_cov_pg5.jpg)
(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w6/3ciona/jd_cov_pg6.jpg)
Hope you like them.
Wow! Those are...Wow! Love your take on the design aspect of the strip, recognisable but original, excellent. Beautiful pencils and your command of perspective and figurative work is spot-on. Well done, seriously impressed. :D
Thanks a lot. If you want to see some more of my works, plesae visit my blog.
http://kolejkadoszczescia.blogspot.com/search/label/bioshock (http://kolejkadoszczescia.blogspot.com/search/label/bioshock) . That is the only comic [bioshock fan fiction btw] I did myself and consider it to be finished.
Best
Cool. Liked that.
Keep us posted on how you get on with the sample you send to Tharg.
I really like those, all angular and eye-popping. I'd love to see it inked too. "Cycle of Violence" is a difficult script to work with, as so many other people go for it too, but you've really made it your own.
Excellent work on your blog too.
Some really nice character work and camera angles going on there. Look forward to seeing the inks.
Good stuff.
Yeah thats bloody good that is!
Quote from: 3ciona on 05 December, 2010, 10:12:34 PM
Hello all
I decided to post my drawings. All of the pages are already inked, now i am working on colours and I'm hoping to post them sometime soon.
Here we go:
Hope you like them.
Cool style. My only problem is the last panel of the last page. Its impossible to tell if its Dredd or Klien who's shooting.
Hello
Thanks for all the comments.
The Adventurer
"Cool style. My only problem is the last panel of the last page. Its impossible to tell if its Dredd or Klien who's shooting."
Two reasons i did it:
1] It is a Dredd comic so if you don't know who is shooting it is probably Dredd shooting the nondredds ;)'
2] I just couldn't draw pretty much the same Kleins POV of Dredd aiming at him for the third time in a 6-page story.
I know that this panel is not simply telling us that it is Dredd that is shooting but i belive that Dredd readers have faith in their hero;)
please excuse my english i haven't been writing anything for a while [ in english ]
Best
(http://i956.photobucket.com/albums/ae48/adrianbamforth/1Small.jpg)
(http://i956.photobucket.com/albums/ae48/adrianbamforth/2Small.jpg)
(http://i956.photobucket.com/albums/ae48/adrianbamforth/3Small.jpg)
(http://i956.photobucket.com/albums/ae48/adrianbamforth/4Small.jpg)
Okay, this took absolutely ages due to my aim to produce some bullet-proof new samples and get back in the game. The hardest parts were definitely trying to draw the dead girl (vary hard to get the "pose" right, since it's the opposite of the usually comic dynamism), especially with the first opening birds-eye-view shot which I insisted on (I wanted the girl to look quite pouting and sassy in the first frame before pulling out a la Sin City to make it a bit more cinematic but it just wasn't happening), and re-designing the Academy, which looks a little ridiculous in the shape of a fat eagle.
Haven't looked at Cliff Robinson's pages yet on account of him blowing everyone out of the water.
*unconstructed criticism alert*
THIS IS FCKING AMAZING. I'd happily sit in front of the prog and ABSORB THIS.
I am really enjoying seeing all the different versions Cycle of Violence. Very solid work Adrian, normally I would try and find something critical to say but I can't really see anything technically wrong with your art or story telling. Solid work.
Bloody hell Adrian! The first version of this was good, but this? Straight in the prog, gotta be.
I think it was a good idea to change the way the Lawgiver is held. I believe you've tweaked the helmet design as well, brilliant, I personally think a flared lid is class. The visor works really well. The Academy is class, there's some real John Higgins massiveness to it. The whole thing is spot on sir, I'd love to see it in the prog.
Excellent stuff there Ade (well obviously).
If I may be so bold as to venture a criticism: I think that Dredd should be shown firing his lawgiver at the end of page 1. Otherwise it feels like there's a scene missing between page 1 and page 2.
Obviously there's no criticising the actual art. This is exceptional stuff, as always. I love the level of detail here, the unusual "camera angles", and use of light and shadow.
Give this man a mega-epic to draw!
Bit baffled as to why you covered up the nice art with lettering - Tharg won't want to see it! (I'd also be a bit worried that without the lettering it's not obvious to an editor where the space for lettering is).
You know you're good enough for 2000AD, Ade - I do think though, that the obstacle you'll have to assault will be making Tharg see your art with a fresh set of eyes - which is a damn sight more difficult than simply showing you're good enough (and god knows, I feel I have to do that all the bloody time...)
-pj
Quote from: Jared Katooie on 13 December, 2010, 11:16:10 PM
If I may be so bold as to venture a criticism: I think that Dredd should be shown firing his lawgiver at the end of page 1.
Well spotted: I decided to draw the explosion separately so I could play around with it with in Photoshop. In the end it just didn't seem to be working in B&W - it looked too solid, so I decided it would be best to leave until the colouring stage where there's more effects to play with. It'll make me think again about any similar shot in future: It's the most dramatic way of drawing gun-toting since you get a line of sight past the gun to the firer's eye, though if the gun it also being fired it risks obscuring everything.
PJ: Thanks for your compliments - I personally find putting the lettering on brings the strip to like, and makes it look print ready, as well as showing you've left enough space for the text. More importantly, if there's a bit of the panel i don't like, I can put a nice big box over it!
I think I've made a bit of a leap here with a change in some of my methods. I decided a long time ago though that the only really reliable tactic I can use is to just keep improving to the point where editors simply can't ignore your work.
hey ade,
nice work, as always. but i was going to say the same thing about the lettering... the thing with it is, it's 'almost but not quite' and it doesn't help the art at all in my opinion. editors don't need to see it - they see bare pages all the time... they can judge a page on it's own merits.
I'm very ill with the return of the Flu bug but Adrian Bamforth's work clearly shows what an ace art forum this is! :thumbsup:
hope you like it
(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w6/3ciona/jd_cov_ink-01.png)
(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w6/3ciona/ramki_kolor_1.png)
best
Something bisley-esque - and yet, doesn't fall into the usual bisley-murky-clone area. Nice.
Lose the lettering though. (Don't make me keep having to say this!)
-pj
I like that. Good take on the very difficult main image. Bit of a Carl Critchlow type vibe going on there.
I'd dare say Hicklenton would like the look of the coloured work. Without the lettering too.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Sh5w06iMxNA/R53g6m5QFhI/AAAAAAAAAjo/S-Z6YwmgGZQ/s400/bedlam.jpg)
here is the version without lettering.
(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w6/3ciona/ramki_kolor.png)
That is very groovy. Bisley/Hicklenton amalgamation. I like !
Yep; and clear as day as to what is afoot.
I failed to remember mentioning how much I liked Ade's work. Ade-I like it! Loads. But cannot deny PJ's points.
Lovely stuff, 3ciona. ;)
Thanks for all the comments. Here is page 2
(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w6/3ciona/ramki_kolor_2.png)
That's really good.
Yup, definitely something special here.
Excellent work. Look forward to seeing more.
Yeah I do like that - the colours suit it really well. It's like Jock meets Dom Reardon in an alley and they share spaghetti.
Looks great to me, especially like the distorted perspective of Dredd on the first page, and the hand-style colouring (I don't know if it was hand-coloured or computer-coloured with added effects, I have always favoured the old way and try to put on a layer of 'imperfections' when I can).
The scratchy, expressive style works great with Dredd - most samples I see tend to be too far in the opposite direction ie flat and static. Personally, I think it's far better to start loose and expressive and reign it in if required - people very often tend to get trapped in a derivative comic style.
#3
(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w6/3ciona/ramki_kolor3.png)
Really nice stuff again. Looks a little Ted McKeever-esque. This is a very good thing in my book! :-P
Looks good, story telling on page 3 is a little confused. Judge on a bike - is he racing TO the scene or AWAY from the scene? Not clear from the panel location*
Also, along with page 2, some of the panels could do with a little more 'dead' space - the 2000AD 10 commandments suggests 25% of the panel should be dead space -most of it in the upper left (for captions/lettering) - don't drop your own letters in there, once the editor looks at it he may decide to change some dialogue, or, the font you're using may be smaller/larger than the actual font the letterer is using making your measurements pointless. As a rule, the more dead space the better.
Finally, the pages look great (colouring is ace) the single big splash panel with insets, though, is making the three pages look a little samey (which is ok if that's what you're going for! - ie a consistent story telling trope to, for example, tell three distinct tales by three people and have them tied together by the panel arrangements/storytelling).
-pj
(* the aim is to make it as super clear as is possible, if even one person doesn't get what's happening that's a bad thing - especially if the one person is the editor...)
Thanks a lot.
#4
(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w6/3ciona/ramki_kolor4.png)
pauljholden: I know I have some problems with leaving enough "deadspace". I think that the best solution for me would be to design panels with letterer before I start to draw anything.
A lot of artists put the bubbles in the first or second roughs then compose each scene accordingly. I know it seems obvious now but when I get into a picture I forget about the dead space in my enthusiasm.
EDIT: Fucken amazin' work 3C.
Brilliant...surely prog worthy?
I love the cramped Blade Runneresque city scenes too. Very nice work.
Top stuff. And one thing I love about the British Style is how expressive and punk rock it is....
Thats great, great stuff 3C.
All i would say is - lose the photoshop filter on the lawmaster panel. It never works with line drawings in my opinion and sticks out like a sore thumb.
Also, ease back on the design of the judge helmets. Adding your own slant on the design is a must, but personally i think you've gone ever-so-slightly too far with it.
But those are just minor niggles, still awesome stuff dude :thumbsup:
Yes looking at them closer I agree with PJ: The pages are full of energy and expression though your direction now should be finding the balance between that and clarity in the storytelling. There should perhaps be more longer shots to establish the new context whenever the scene changes e.g. the dorms, the crowded street (doesn't have all the detail described in the script), the superior's office (looks more like ahe's being held prisoner), the interrogation room, the Academy (should have the sign in, though you did a nice job making the crap old design look good) - also, it looks a bit like like there's a missile heading into it, the beating scene... editors will tend to know what is supposed to be happening in the sample scripts. Don't depend on the captioons to describe the scene - it should be made clear without. The trick for you is to make it clearer without losing the energy.
I like it, very energetic. Knowing the script so well it's easy to follow the story, perhaps as others have said, not if you didn't know it well.
There's a continuity error on page 2 though; the boy twatting the other cadet in the last panel is in loose pyjamas, panel 1 of page 3 (which is the same scene) he's wearing his cadet clobber.
Thanks a lot. Seems i misunderstood those 3 panels, need to read captions more carefully. ARGH
Quote from: 3ciona on 27 January, 2011, 02:02:04 PM
I think that the best solution for me would be to design panels with letterer before I start to draw anything.
This, unfortunately, is not the way that paying comics gigs work.
Cheers
Jim
Just in case anyone finds it interesting, I made several attempts ar the Cycle of Violence strip experimenting with different tricks to try and alleviate some of the epic stress it usually involves for me. In the end I found simply drawing A4 size instead of A3 and inking tighter did the trick (which is how I did the pages posted earlier, though here's the result of an attempt to lay out the pages using models created from white-tack that Cliff Robinson uses and demonstrated on his blog. His models are far better - I think he uses bits of bought action models for hands and head, though here I've bought some of the crappy wooden poseable figures which are otherwise worse than useless due to their completely inaccurate proportions, corrected some of the limbs using a hack-saw and sculpted on top of using white-tack. I found it wasn't the technique for me when I found myself completely straying from the photo-poses, mush as I have always done when attempting to us regular photo-ref. Guisee I'm just an old-fashioned kind of guy.
(http://i956.photobucket.com/albums/ae48/adrianbamforth/2small-2.jpg)
(http://i956.photobucket.com/albums/ae48/adrianbamforth/3small-1.jpg)
(http://i956.photobucket.com/albums/ae48/adrianbamforth/4small-1.jpg)
This is really interesting - I've just begun the process of pre-drawing layouts using photo montages and sketch up and things - it's amazing to see much can be done. Kind of explains how incredibly solidly brilliant your work is Mr Bamforth!
Actually - are you getting surplus love on this board after the numerous revelations of the sexy avatar thread?
YOUR WHITE TAC IS GRUBBY. There I said it.
Quote from: 3ciona on 27 January, 2011, 02:02:04 PM
pauljholden: I know I have some problems with leaving enough "deadspace". I think that the best solution for me would be to design panels with letterer before I start to draw anything.
Honestly, the best way to correct this problem is to see your work published - happily, if you're willing to work for free, it's DEAD EASY to get lots of comics published - if you even just say the word on this thread I'm sure there's at least two or three people that can supply you with a script that will end up in a published comic. It's not 2000AD, but it is experience.
-pj
Quote from: pauljholden on 30 January, 2011, 07:26:23 PM
Quote from: 3ciona on 27 January, 2011, 02:02:04 PM
pauljholden: I know I have some problems with leaving enough "deadspace". I think that the best solution for me would be to design panels with letterer before I start to draw anything.
Honestly, the best way to correct this problem is to see your work published - happily, if you're willing to work for free, it's DEAD EASY to get lots of comics published - if you even just say the word on this thread I'm sure there's at least two or three people that can supply you with a script that will end up in a published comic. It's not 2000AD, but it is experience.
-pj
Yes. Please drop me a line!
I done a script what was dead good. If you want some script, let me know and I'll make one for you drawing.
I'll do any script going!
Right now i am working with somebody from this forum on some non-profit comic [ i mean i will start drawing it as soon as i finish my Dredd comission, around wednesday i hope]. I also decided to learn something about lettering, thanks for the tutorial pjholden.
The lettering tutorial was made by Jim Campbell. My mistake, sorry
Adrian, I have tried the photomontage thing in the past, it always looks too posed and static. I'm not above using a draw over of photo or 3d reference for the odd background but for people I think it just doesn't work.
The more versions of 'cycle of violence' I see the more I'm tempted to have a stab at it myself.
Well some of my favourite artists use photo-ref brilliantly: Chris Weston, Sean Phillips, Bryan Hitch and Leigh Gallagher. I definitely think you have to be pretty much as good at drawing without the photos for it to work, then you can use it as a means to save time on anatomy, lighting and poses so you can invest more detail or mood. I also think it helps if you have a strong visual style to help you disguise what you're doing, and keep the 'heightened reality' feel native to comic art. With artists like Alex Ross the art is so realistic it tends to just remind you how ridiculous superheros look in the real world.
I found a pretty good way of doing it without the need for assistance, using a webcam, which is easily placed anywhere, and filming short sequences so you can simply pick out whichever frames you like. When it came to tracing the figures though, the fun just looked sucked out of the page and I would end up reworking everything to the point where there was no photo-ref left.
I've started collecting barbie (and the disney princess dolls) dolls for use as mannequins to help me withe perspective mainly. Expect characters with impossible bosoms at some point. :D :D I'm also on the lookout for action men for the same reason. Obviously I'm not buying them new, that would be silly but the charity shops are surprisingly bare of poseable figures (with or without childish attempts at hairdressing).
I never have time to try other people's scripts. This is a sad thing.
I bought a TARDIS for reference purposes.
that's right.... reference purposes.
Does the artwork have to be in monochrome pen, brush and ink? I can pencil and ink , but over the years I've been painting with a mouse in photoshop so I have two styles and two methods of producing comic strips , so for these submission stories should I approach it with a more traditional approach?
My son showed me that there were 19 pages to this thread, I had missed that completely :-[. So we read through them together last night and really enjoyed the various interpretations of 'Cycle of Violence'. A week or two back, filled with the optimism of, well, insanity, I downloaded the script to illustrate it. I had quite forgotten how tough JD is - to draw! I think he must be one of the hardest characters of all with all those pimped and pumped up details. I have almost no time during the week, so I'm bagging time on this pet project when I can. I'll post my pages as soon as they are ready. But hats off to anyone who takes on this character and his intricate world! Bravo all and one.
Perhaps you might want to consider doing a different script? Cycle of Violence has been done so often it is difficult to make it your own and stand out. There are other Dredds as well as plenty of other stories to try too. Just a thought, anyway.
Thanks for the suggestion Emperor. If I'd known Cycle of Violence was so popular I would have selected another script from the site, but page 1 is done now and a panorama of the city is turning out to be just too much fun to turn back now. I'm pleased I'd blocked in everything before seeing the various takes of the script, however. I'll post them here soon enough.
Actually...it's perhaps more interesting to see the same script illustrated each time, better to see the strangely endless variations or dimensions that can be brought out by different artists. No one artist can close the book on a single script, there's always more an artist can do I think, although it may seem more challenging. Here's a detail from one panel in 'Cycle of Violence' that I was working on last night. I had planned a fully painted series, but then I thought about the stories I read as a kid, only the central double spread was colour, the last 4 pages were black and white...and what my buddy Brendan McNally said to me - real comics are ALWAYS in black and white....hmmm, maybe....but bw does lend more to the hard-bitten look...so here we go.
Damned easier to paint than to ink, too.
Maybe this has been covered already, but I didn't see it here...but does anyone have any thoughts or suggestions on font size and or if there is a font that can be downloaded that looks like the one that might appear in the magazine? Thanks....and happy Easter.
My suggestion would be: don't letter your artwork at all! Lettering is something of an art in it's own right, and a substandard job will totally detract from your artwork.
And if you really want to letter your pages, don't use the comic sans font. Ever.
If you need free comic fonts you can download many at http://www.blambot.com/ (http://www.blambot.com/) - just take your pick.
Comic Sans is a massive no - ! :O
Pay ENORMOUS heed to the incredible free tutorial by Jim Campbell http://www.2000adonline.com/forum/index.php/topic,26445.0.html - if you choose to letter it at all!
Quote from: radiator on 23 April, 2011, 07:38:40 PM
My suggestion would be: don't letter your artwork at all!
This ^^^^
I'm with DON'T LETTER YOUR ARTWORK AT ALL.
Make sure there's plenty of room for lettering BUT DON'T LETTER IT.
You will NEVER be asked to letter your own work - and, tbh, sub-standard lettering on artwork is the fastest way to make your art look amateurish (no matter how great it is).
-pj
Yeh, I would strongly advise against lettering it yourself, too. The artwork looks nice, from the snippets you've shown. Don't ruin it! ;)
Plus, of course, if you letter your own work and you aren't a member of the union then we're honour-bound to track you down and... deal with you. Now, I'm not saying you'll be found face-down at a crossroads with a Wacom stylus between your shoulderblades, but it's a possibility you should seriously consider.
:-)
Cheers!
Jim
The lettering is for studio use only Darren. I've had more than one non-plussed expression this week at the sight of yet another murder victim picture in progress, no doubt my friends and clients see this as an exciting new direction in my work :D....But I think it'll be helpful to have a lettered version for anyone interested in how relevant the pictures I'm drawing are to the script I'm reading. I won't submit anything lettered, although I've been working with typography since 1986 - I know comic lettering is an art all its own - as important as sound in film, in that it is 90% of what you 'see'.
Thanks Adrian for the link...and the PDF of Jim Campbell's....and thanks for the heads up - I'll keep an eye over my shoulder for any spinning Cintiq's or Intuos 2 ;)....the thought recalls a Far Side cartoon. Busy city street, dead man with boomerang in his back. Among the crowd a kangaroo looking fearful & alert, thinking - 'That was meant for me.'
BTW - Adrian, I fully agree with your point on too much reliance on photo refs. They will deaden the work if they are relied on too much. They are best used as an aid only at the sketching stage...although are more valuable where shadows are concerned. Best thing for any comic book artist is a strong understanding of the figure at any angle. It may seem a chore but it can be learned and Drawing Comics the Marvel Way is a good intro...but for the real mince and totties nothing can touch Burne Hogarth...got a problem with hands?...Burne Hogarth...not sure how to draw a foot?...Burne Hogarth. Learn his method and free your hand for life. Is it worth taking a month out of your life to study his method?...damn right.
And thanks again for that font page, dynamite!
Comic book Jesus this way...
http://www.amazon.com/Dynamic-Figure-Drawing-Burne-Hogarth/dp/0823015777
Hey everyone, here's my attempt at Sorrowhill. There just pencils so it's still a work in progress but any feedback will be welcome.
Thanks
Dan
(http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee443/danielbell2/DanBellpencils01lowres.jpg)
(http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee443/danielbell2/DanBellpencils02lowres.jpg)
(http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee443/danielbell2/DanBellpencils03lowres.jpg)
(http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee443/danielbell2/DanBellpencils04lowres.jpg)
(http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee443/danielbell2/DanBellpencils05lowres.jpg)
Oooh.
Pretty.
That's some really nice artwork, Dan.
I'm trying to think of some helpful criticism, but it's hard to be critical of something so good.
Do you have a link to any more of your artwork (a blog or maybe deviantart)?
That IS really nice. It's clear you've really sweated over the details on this - !
Yes, lovely pencils there. And the fellow on the right in panel 2:2 looks like George Lucas!
To my eyes, this looks great. Make sure to post the inked pages.
Quote from: locustsofdeath! on 06 May, 2011, 10:56:02 PM
Yes, lovely pencils there. And the fellow on the right in panel 2:2 looks like George Lucas!
I was more drawn to the
Imperial window frame in the last panels.
Really nice. I love the dead cat
Thats some damn fine pencilling there Dan. Look forward to see the finished product.
Thanks for the kind words. I'm a bit hesitant to actually ink it as that always seems to be the stage where it loses something. I spoke to Tharg at Kapow! and showed him some inked Dredd stuff I'd done and he said the inking let it down a bit.
Still, at least I've saved my pencils this time so if i screw it up I can go back and redo it.
If your interested i have some stuff up at http://danielbellcomics.carbonmade.com/ (http://danielbellcomics.carbonmade.com/) and I'm part of Underfire Comics http://www.underfire-comics.com/online/ (http://www.underfire-comics.com/online/).
thanks again.
Dan
Nicely done! I've not read that script so can't comment further at the moment. But well done, I like particularly the use of perspective in page one, the silhouette of the roof beams, the loft and the characters. Please post the inks when you can.
I don't think this has been posted before but I was nosing around Double T's site:
www.tiernentrevallion.co.uk/comics/comics.html
And found the last 3 pages of his take on "Cycles of Violence":
www.tiernentrevallion.co.uk/comics/images/com11.jpg
www.tiernentrevallion.co.uk/comics/images/com12.jpg
www.tiernentrevallion.co.uk/comics/images/com13.jpg
Lovely stuff. TT's stuff reminds me of Eduardo Risso a lot.
Quote from: Emperor on 02 June, 2011, 02:10:23 AM
I don't think this has been posted before but I was nosing around Double T's site:
Not sure what comic those fantasy pages are for - but that stuff looks great.
Quote from: locustsofdeath! on 02 June, 2011, 01:03:45 PMNot sure what comic those fantasy pages are for - but that stuff looks great.
This?
www.tiernentrevallion.co.uk/comics/images/com1.jpg
www.tiernentrevallion.co.uk/comics/images/com2.jpg
www.tiernentrevallion.co.uk/comics/images/com3.jpg
www.tiernentrevallion.co.uk/comics/images/com4.jpg
www.tiernentrevallion.co.uk/comics/images/com5.jpg
It is from his Future Shock with Jaspre Bark in prog 1610:
http://2000ad.org/?zone=prog&page=profiles&choice=1610
And yes it is a bit good. ;)
Quote from: Emperor on 02 June, 2011, 02:10:23 AM
I don't think this has been posted before but I was nosing around Double T's site:
www.tiernentrevallion.co.uk/comics/comics.html
And found the last 3 pages of his take on "Cycles of Violence":
www.tiernentrevallion.co.uk/comics/images/com11.jpg
www.tiernentrevallion.co.uk/comics/images/com12.jpg
www.tiernentrevallion.co.uk/comics/images/com13.jpg
wow!! that ws so enjoyable pottering about his site. Simply breathtaking art there. Cheers for putting it up Emperor. :thumbsup:
...this is why I don't submit attempts at sample scripts....
Love the colouring in Tiernen Trevallion's work along with everything else.
Quote from: IAMTHESYSTEM on 02 June, 2011, 08:08:07 PM
Love the colouring in Tiernen Trevallion's work along with everything else.
Yep. His site is a right eye opener. Some amazing and varied work there. Just superb.
Quote from: IAMTHESYSTEM on 02 June, 2011, 08:08:07 PM
Love the colouring in Tiernen Trevallion's work along with everything else.
I've posted it before but the colouring on his Feast of Toys is sublime:
www.badlibrarianship.com/2010/11/tiernen-trevallions-feast-of-toys.html
B&W Feast of Toys pages:
www.badlibrarianship.com/2010/11/more-of-tiernen-trevallions-feast-of.html
he's good by jove!
Yup, I'm absolutely in love with his work and have rather predictably asked him for a commission. After looking at his beautiful site and wracking my brains again and again, I decided on Dredd vs [spoiler]Fink Angel (and Ratty)[/spoiler] in the sewers of Pete Wells Block.
Fingers crossed, he's gonna do it at the end of the month!
He's my favourite new 2000ad artist to emerge in a good long time.
Can't wait to see that commission.
Quote from: Pete Wells on 03 June, 2011, 09:25:25 AMin the sewers of Pete Wells Block.
That is one hell of a treacherous block to be around...
Quote from: Pete Wells on 03 June, 2011, 09:25:25 AM
Yup, I'm absolutely in love with his work and have rather predictably asked him for a commission. After looking at his beautiful site and wracking my brains again and again, I decided on Dredd vs [spoiler]Fink Angel (and Ratty)[/spoiler] in the sewers of Pete Wells Block.
Fingers crossed, he's gonna do it at the end of the month!
Oh very nice - I can't wait to see it (not as much as you but still...).
Quote from: Dunk! on 03 June, 2011, 10:47:38 AM
He's my favourite new 2000ad artist to emerge in a good long time.
Indeed - I think I can feel a "Favourite Newcomer Artist" award nomination looming in the 2012 Eagles.
His 'Uber Jenny Six' could join the Vampire Vixens!
Quote from: Proudhuff on 03 June, 2011, 08:20:43 PM
His 'Uber Jenny Six' could join the Vampire Vixens!
Oooo.
www.badlibrarianship.com/2008/11/feast-of-toys.html
wow-- :o
It's a shame the story will probably never be told....I'd love to read that! :(
Even though my sample script is not a commission, I feel a little bad that it's taking so long. :-[ ...It is work I can only do at the end of the night (probably no different from anyone posting here). As an artist I've never missed a hard deadline, and my deadlines are not comics, but portraits. They dominate my day. In doing the sample and looking here at all this work I was inspired by the alternate views each artist presented. It got me thinking about multiverses...actually, truth be told - I'd been thinking of them already. But as an artistic 'multiverse'...well, what I've seen here partially inspired me (and various interpretations of characters in comics over the years). I've pointed that out in the forward of the first lay-out of Atwomic.
http://wineink.blogspot.com/
If any artists who've posted here would like to take part in this experiment, I'll be delighted. 1 panel or a full sequence, sketch, doodle or full on...whatever. It's just about drawing. People are already telling me that they like knowing there is a panel to draw each day, that it 'keeps their hand in' so to speak. Not a bad side-effect for an artist.
There will be guest writers too, not just me. So if you wonder how well you'd do illustrating the words of a writer, again, not a bad thing to undertake.
Now back to work...I hope to post my sample script here soon.
Hello everyone! First time posting here.
I'm going to attempt a submission using a Judge script. My question is does Tharg want photocopies of the artworks' actual size, or would A4 copies be ok?
Here's a link to my portfolio too if anyone wants a gander.
http://s365.photobucket.com/albums/oo100/Boulton/
Quote from: Jboulton on 23 June, 2011, 03:27:45 AM
Hello everyone! First time posting here.
I'm going to attempt a submission using a Judge script. My question is does Tharg want photocopies of the artworks' actual size, or would A4 copies be ok?
Here's a link to my portfolio too if anyone wants a gander.
http://s365.photobucket.com/albums/oo100/Boulton/
Not trying to nitpick because seriously, there's far more good than bad in your samples! Beautiful style and very creative layouts. I love them! The only thing that niggles me is some of your anatomy's a little loose in places. Fantastic though! Good luck!
Thanks blackmocco!
I agree, it's one of the aspects im feverishly trying to resolve. Which pictures do you think had the worst anatomy?
J
Nice style. Really nice.
Call it a preference thing, but photobucket's interface doesn't say professional to me. A splendid place to host your art, but not the best way to present it.
Some say deviant art is ok - but again not the best way to display your stuff. A dedicated website, is the most professional IMO, but I know some established artists only have blogs. A blog is a good way to show that you're consistently working at improving though... tumblr is good also if you're not into the concept of blogging.
Oh, and I think A4 photcopies should be fine... be prepared that it's a long old slog crowbar-ing work out of the emerald emperor though... he will have suggestions for you on how to improve your work too. A very helpful alien that one :-)
Thanks Kev!
I do have a blog actually, its http://boultonblog.blogspot.com
Do you think this is better?
Quote from: Jboulton on 23 June, 2011, 08:52:58 AM
I do have a blog actually, its http://boultonblog.blogspot.com
Do you think this is better?
IMO - yes.
Quote from: Jboulton on 23 June, 2011, 08:52:58 AM
Thanks Kev!
I do have a blog actually, its http://boultonblog.blogspot.com
Do you think this is better?
Definitely, on Photobucket it isn't clear what anything in is, here you can group them together and add titles and descriptions. Couldn't hurt to get a DeviantArt account too - increase your exposure.
Finally completed my sample script. I'll begin posting the pages tonight and would love any feedback that anyone might want to offer.
...and is it just me or has this forum become more difficult to navigate since I last logged in?...or am I getting more difficult in my old age?
So here is the first page of the sample script, I never managed to break in to comics, but earlier this year decided to work on one of these sample scripts for a laugh. With 'We've got your wife Dredd' I was hooked...and it was 2000AD that inspired me to draw as a child, hell knows what I would be if I hadn't let comics lead me astray.
Any thoughts on this work, tips or suggestions ...or leads on upcoming publications that might be a fit, would be sweet.
Cycle of Violence. Page 1
Cycle of Violence page 2
Love your version of MC1.
QuoteSo here is the first page of the sample script, I never managed to break in to comics, but earlier this year decided to work on one of these sample scripts for a laugh. With 'We've got your wife Dredd' I was hooked...and it was 2000AD that inspired me to draw as a child, hell knows what I would be if I hadn't let comics lead me astray.
Any thoughts on this work, tips or suggestions ...or leads on upcoming publications that might be a fit, would be sweet.
Surely you mean you haven't managed to break into comics
yet?
If you can still draw (and your drawings are amazing, so you can) then there's nothing stopping you from trying to break in again.
Do you have a deviantart page? It'd be great to look at some more of your work.
And speaking as an aspiring writer, I'm sure there are lots of writers who'd like to work with you and lots of small press and indie magazines who'd love to have you working for them.
The Legendary Shark - thanks, 3 more scenes of MC1 coming on page 3 of COV, hopefully I can post that tonight.
Thanks for pointing that out Pauul, there was something oddly past-tense about the way I put that (gulp!). What I meant was I stopped drawing comics long ago after an age of door-knocking... I found myself working in a very different way on different projects, but always in art. Usually oil paintings.
In taking up the challenge of Cycle of Violence I found it very difficult to 'wake up' that kind of drawing and thinking again. Also, until recently, you couldn't really get comics where I live, that's changed now, with most comics published in Czech today.
I'll set up a Deviant Art page, thanks for the suggestion. In the meantime you can see my work here...I paint with wine.
http://wineink.blogspot.com/
Some very nice artwork there, I like it a lot. My only criticisms would be the third panel of page one is a litle unclear as to what is happenening, and I think your colours are a little lurid - maybe tone down that pruple a bit.
Otherwise - Nice!
'a little lurid'...you're right, I quite like that though. Read an article recently on the colouring of The Killing Joke by John Higgins, I liked the original work, don't see that it needed a new treatment, I prefer the brighter colours. I may adjust my pages though, anyway thanks for making that point, I maybe went way too far. Here's the 3rd page, a little tempered in that dept. I hope to get all 6 pages online in the next day or so.
No, looking again, I'm off my head, you're absolutely right Dandontdare, page 2 is OTT, I'll be fixing that thanks to your comment. Regarding panel 3, I'll look at fixing that too, bring more of the father in, make it clearer maybe. This is the panel in which Klein says 'Kill Him, I thought it worked because of 2 and 4, perhaps not.
Oddly enough, the colouring was making my think of The Killing Joke as well, and I love the original version too - John Higgins brought in the claustrophobia and surreal atmosphere you need for charatcre like that, while Bolland's colouring was basically literal (especially with the monochrome flashbacks), even if I understand his pain in handing over the art toi someone else to finish.The colours here are nicely atmospheric, though there's perhaps a bit too much colour gradient from one to another, especially the 'fiting' shot, which looks more like it's giving off some kind of waves. I like the way also that somehow there's some texture effect on the paper which makes it look more like old-school colouring (I kep a paper texture layer for just that reason. There's some very elegant inking, especially the darker shots such as the dorm, which is is basically a perfect panel (if you can keep up those shadows in everything you draw you're halfway there). I'd say as well that which always applies: Keep improving the drawing of people, while you're clealry experimenting with panel layouts, borders etc, you can do a lot more by varying the panel sizes and shapes: The fixed grid lineup I think should only be used if it's the style of the whole book (though it usually isn't 2000AD's style), or if you or the writer want to make a point of it to convey a particular pattern in the story. Elsewhere, you can use inset and smaller panels to jump in and out of the action more, while the first pages should, I think, have have a larger establishing shot with the whole room in. Also, personally, I think square panels tend to be harder to make dynamic than wide or tall shots, perhaps because it's harder for the eye to know where to start and which way to go, and because the other shapes suggest movement more. However, others have bucked the trend very successfully (such as Jamie Hewlett's Tank Girl 'The Odyssey'), ...so it's possible to rip up the rulebook entirely.
Cycle of Violence, my page 4...
That's the best page so far. It reminds me of Frazer Irving's style.
My Page 5 of Cycle of Violence...(this is the 'dark' version, the other has far less blood and less shadow - I'll post it if anyone wants to see that version)
Really enjoying the pages, Opipop.
You may have mentioned it before, but what program are you creating these in?
Pleased to read you are enjoying it Dunk, one last page coming tonight, or early tomorrow.
I work with Photoshop only, at least with this series. I've tried others, but PS is, at least for me, the most like painting on paper or canvas. And as Adrian Bamforth pointed out I'm using a base texture, some scanned wine stains or something, to give a tooth to the whole thing.
Thanks for the pointers Adrian I hadn't thought of panels within panels as you described, wish I had.
If anyone has any thoughts, suggestions, tips, I'd like to hear them ...all criticisms welcome, please don't hold back. This isn't my field, it's yours!
My Cycle of Violence page 6, final page.
Quote from: OPIPOP on 06 July, 2011, 08:32:43 AM
My Page 5 of Cycle of Violence...(this is the 'dark' version, the other has far less blood and less shadow - I'll post it if anyone wants to see that version)
That is your best page so fa, it is bursting with movement and energy.
Well that's that for now. Thanks for the comments, I'd welcome anything anyone has to say on the set. I'll be uploading a PDF somewhere soon that shows the work in a slightly better light. In reducing the files to fit on the forum I had to drop the quality substantially to bring down the filesize, when the PDF is posted I'll link here for anyone who wants to see the details and optimum colours. Thanks again for the comments so far.
I think the colouring is stunning - absolutely wonderful!
Those alterations you've made to page 6 are well worth it. really nice to see them
And those changes were thanks to you!...if you are who I think you are...and who else could you be?
That's a brilliant page - one of the very best versions of that page that I've seen.
Here's that PDF in magazine format with the script alongside the illustrated pages.
http://issuu.com/atwomic/docs/cov-dredd-s_k_moore
Stewart
Finally!
I've literally just finished the inks on my Sorrowhill submission. It's been a fucking long time coming. I started inking back in May and between other projects and real work I'm finally done. For some unkown reason these pages have been a real labour. I might post some of the failed attempts later, for some reason I thought I'd try a completly new technique, one i made up and looked shit.
so here are my inked pages, the pencils are way back on page 20 of this thread.
(http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee443/danielbell2/Page1.jpg)
(http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee443/danielbell2/Page2.jpg)
(http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee443/danielbell2/Page3.jpg)
(http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee443/danielbell2/Page4-1.jpg)
(http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee443/danielbell2/Page5.jpg)
Now just have to wait till payday to buy some ink and send these bad boys off to Tharg, then it's fame and fortune right?
seriously though, any comments, critiques and praise are more than welcome.
Dan
It looks pretty good to me. And page 4 panel 3 is... disturbing.
Very sturdy - although the seventh (?) panel on page 5 - the one that comprises the second row - could do with some fine tuning-on the expression and proportions mainly.
The first page looks particularly good - you can see the months that have gone into this - !
Looks even better inked.
Good luck with the submission, I hope it leads to bigger and better things.
Am I a wrongun for thinking the dogcat thing is quite cute?
heres page 1 of my PF attempt, crits and feedback welcome.
(http://www.petermckinstry.com/USERIMAGES/PF%20pg1web%20c.jpg)
If you can tell a sequential story without confusing the reader once PJM then you've done the job. You've done the job perfectly with a good joke too.
Excellent!
I found the other pages on your site and I think they all work very nicely:
http://www.petermckinstry.com/page4.htm
I especially like how you lightly sketched in the background on that last panel which really makes everything pop. The crowd scenes can often be a challenge as you want to include enough to make the city look brimful of people but you don't want to lose your main characters in the crowd.
Beautifully drawn and the other work on your website is excellent as well.
I get a real feeling of a bustling metropolis too.
Thankyou for thepositivefedback, i think it could be sharper...still working out the best way to do this sort of work digitally. Are there many pros working all digital?
(http://www.petermckinstry.com/USERIMAGES/PF%20pg2web%20b(1).jpg)
(http://www.petermckinstry.com/USERIMAGES/PF%20pg3web%20b(1).jpg)
(http://www.petermckinstry.com/USERIMAGES/PF%20pg4web%20b(1).jpg)
(http://www.petermckinstry.com/USERIMAGES/PF%20pg5web%20b(1).jpg)
(http://www.petermckinstry.com/USERIMAGES/PF%20pg6web%20b(1).jpg)
Very enjoyable stuff, PJM. You have a lovely style. ;)
PJM - your stuff, I love.
Sound style. Really like the precision of your lines.
I know nobody has posted here for a while, but ive been reading through the posts and its been great to read. The crits have been really constructive. Here is page one of my attempt at the colossal wealth of karn foul eye id love to get some crits on it
(http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x357/terrapinman/KARN1.jpg)
Good tips and awesome work all round, especially Radiator!
Quote from: terrapin on 09 December, 2011, 10:01:41 PM
I know nobody has posted here for a while, but ive been reading through the posts and its been great to read. The crits have been really constructive. Here is page one of my attempt at the colossal wealth of karn foul eye id love to get some crits on it
(http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x357/terrapinman/KARN1.jpg)
Hello, couple of quick thoughts, first though this is too low a res for me to get terribly in depth on advice (and fantasy isn't my preferred genre) so feel free to ignore.
Panel 1: nice establishing shot - BUT! The left hand and right hand side are really fighting with each other for attention. If it was me, and unless the script called for it, I'd lose EVERYTHING on the left - it's a distraction from the proper establishment of the ship and the port town (and the dragonfly and another critter are so isolated from the stuff on the right that it's hard to know if they're very close or just massive - a crime I've committed in the past, so I knowof where I speak). I'd replace the left with more ocean, that'll draw your eye across to the port - and leave loads of room for title, captions and credits. Letterers will love you for it.
Panel 2
It's hard to get a sense of this place, the perspective seems off, and it's a bit amorphous - steps leading down into ... ? what or where, I don't know. Lots of interesting people (plenty of imagination, which is good), and the focus is on the big figure walking in with - I guess - someone tied up in a sack. It may be the inking or the lack of resolution, but it's hard to tell whether the punk on the right is looking at him or just generally looking around. Get everyone's attention focused on that guy more. All eyes on him.
Inking has a lot of variety to it, which is great, but it's a little unfocused - need to concentrate on figuring out the best way to render different textures with it - those sloppy strokes on the steps aren't needed.
Panel 3 - good action panel. Could turn the angle you're viewing it a little towards us, so that, for example, our view is closer to the guy being hit than the guy doing the hitting, that'll give it much more oopmh.
Panel 4 - again, texture in the inking, the background here looks like bags, but is it misshapen rocks? Hard to know. Watch out for what you're cropping and any accidental tangents- the jug/cup in the right corner is a perfect square (and the top of it is running parallel to the top of the table)
-pj
ps Good blog on tangets http://curiousoldlibrary.blogspot.com/2011/10/schweizer-guide-to-spotting-tangents.html
As PJ points out, the sides are fighting for attention and the beastie is causing all sorts of probs. I'm building on PJ's points here which are spot on, adding more sea is one solution to panel 1. However you could also fill it in black, silhouette the bushes. That way you'd up the drama, keep those leaves and ferns, suggest a cove, increase the sweep of the eye. The 'golden mean' always applies so the balance should also be adjusted. I would bring in more darkness...hopefully that would please letterers. This draws the eye to the pub and then diagonally to the interior club wielder dude. As for your beastie...you could keep it but if it were me I'd try and hide it. Let the reader find it buried in the darkness, that way it won't undermine the flow and will be a boon for the reader who finds it on a second reading, leaves and wings are similar, so finding tiny claws and a beak amongst those leaves might be a way to be visible but understated. Will Eisner was a master of balance, looking at his work is invaluable. Anyway, good luck - takes guts putting your work up for crits, hope you don't mind my scribbling over your work.
Quote from: OPIPOP on 19 December, 2011, 10:09:30 AM
As PJ points out, the sides are fighting for attention and the beastie is causing all sorts of probs. I'm building on PJ's points here which are spot on, adding more sea is one solution to panel 1. However you could also fill it in black, silhouette the bushes. That way you'd up the drama, keep those leaves and ferns, suggest a cove, increase the sweep of the eye. The 'golden mean' always applies so the balance should also be adjusted. I would bring in more darkness...hopefully that would please letterers. This draws the eye to the pub and then diagonally to the interior club wielder dude. As for your beastie...you could keep it but if it were me I'd try and hide it. Let the reader find it buried in the darkness, that way it won't undermine the flow and will be a boon for the reader who finds it on a second reading, leaves and wings are similar, so finding tiny claws and a beak amongst those leaves might be a way to be visible but understated. Will Eisner was a master of balance, looking at his work is invaluable. Anyway, good luck - takes guts putting your work up for crits, hope you don't mind my scribbling over your work.
What he said.
Firstly thanks for the crits, to get advice like this especially from an established comic artist is amazing. I have read through your points PJ and what you say makes sense. I know the work needed improvements but I couldnt pinpoint where it was lacking. Here is the second and third page - I look forward to hearing what you think
(http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x357/terrapinman/KARN2.jpg)
(http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x357/terrapinman/KARN3.jpg)
Thanks for the advice opipop and no i dont mind your scribbling at all, it was useful to see. Will Eisner is an artist i definately need to study more!
Hey, no problem, Anytime. In terms of difficulty I'd say the comic artist has it harder than any other visual artist. Perhaps with the exception of animators...IMO if you do this with any skill, grit and for any length of time - you got balls. Good luck in the new year!
Heres the last 2 pages. I got a reply from my submission today saying i show potential but need to work more on my inking technique. I think i am loosing alot from the pencils by over inking my work, too much black. Id love to hear what other improvements i could make to these pages so please dont hold back on the crits. Happy new year fellow earthlets!
(http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x357/terrapinman/KARN4.jpg)
(http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x357/terrapinman/KARN5.jpg)
Congrats on getting a reply.
I'm sure with practice your artwork with be up to professional standards in no time.
Good luck.
BTW...To everyone who offered critique and comment of my COV pages: I went back and reworked them, introducing suggestions that you made. At some point I will upload them again, but in the meantime thanks to everyone. Your suggestions made the pages stronger and helped eliminate blindspots.
theres some great stuff here
Quote from: mrstu on 12 January, 2012, 09:07:21 PM
theres some great stuff here
As long as you don't re write the scripts and pass them off as your own... ::)
Hi,
I have been working on a Judge Dredd submission at the moment using the 2000ad sample script and have a question about Dredds uniform. The only Judge Dredd I have is the Batman Judge Dredd files and it seems that Dredds uniform changes depending on the artist. They each have their own take on the character varying shoulder pads, knee pads, etc. I was just wondering which Dredd I should use as the character design for my sample. Is there a standard Dredd design? Same goes with his weapons and the Academy of Law?
Would you be able to direct me to some links showing which Dredd I should draw?
Cheers!
One of the joys of Dredd is that you CAN make him your own.
Try not to ape any other artist too closely - at least in terms of drawing style - though there's no harm in picking your favourite bits from various interpretations of Dredd and smushing them together.
Good luck!
Sweet! Thanks mate!
(http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/AcidMoose/JudgeDreddpencilled.jpg)
Well, I finished the pencilled version. Go nuts with the feedback guys! Comments and criticisms are much appreciated! Next I am going to redraw this, with any necessary changes, onto Bristol board and ink it.
I'd say maybe go with the current Lawgiver design from the comics, but aside from that i wouldn't change a thing. Looking forward to seeing it inked :)
Your last panel of Dredd is pretty [spoiler]fuckin[/spoiler] awesome!
It does look good.
If you want Dredd refernce pix, Google has blummen loads!
Hey guys.
Please see below my pencils using the John Wagner's 'Gunrunner' script. I've got one more to do but figured it would be good to start showing this stuff around before I commit to inks. I hope the pencils aren't too muddy. Please let me know what you think!
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7025/6782421963_949fec910d_b.jpg)
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7010/6782423489_3902cf64db_b.jpg)
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7161/6782424845_a4eec57648_b.jpg)
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7010/6782426517_9b82ec08f5_b.jpg)
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7015/6782427931_e67306b5dd_b.jpg)
I think there's a whole lot to love on this sample- reminds me of Boo's first Dredd for class of 79. (which lead to his work on 2000AD)
Be interesting to see what it looks like inked.
The good stuff:
Not afraid to draw backgrounds. There's a couple of panels that look like you've glossed over the pencils, but as it's pencils for yourself to ink that's not a problem. But many of the panels are really nice and tight and filled with life - I especially love that second from last page, panel 2- with the guy with the TESKO bag. Lots going on but none of the story telling is lost. great job.
Good variety of angles - camera moves around a good amount, not just a pedestrian side view on things (and there's close up shots and full body shots) these are all good signs.
To my eye it looks like you've clearly got better over those few pages - there's weaknesses in the earlier pages that aren't as apparent in the later - a good sign again, of someone improving and growing.
And the only really bad point (though it's a biggie, I think) is I'm not sure if you've quiet nailed Dredd. He's fairly akward looking on those first few pages - it may be something you'll correct in inks, or you may want to rethink those poses (though, to be fair, Dredd is easy to draw but hard to really get spot-on - god knows, I don't think I've ever nailed him, really)
Anyways, good stuff and I look forward to seeing the inks.
-pj
That kicks the living arse Sparkonaut I'm in love with that, I truly am. Would like to see what it looks like with some inks on it and maybe some colours. OOH IMAGINE THAT BEING COLOURED BY TOM BERRY.
Wow! That's great stuff, Sparkonaut! Somehow you've captured "fun" and "gritty" in the same strip...easily some of the best work in this thread. I look forward to seeing it inked.
Thanks guys, and big thanks PJ for taking the time to look and comment. I'll work on Dredd and get some consistency going. On to page 6! :D
I really like how you manage to make some quite cartoony characters look like they fit right in and not out of place at all. It's something I'm always afraid to try myself. As someone said in one of the previous posts, some of the best work in this thread.
Always really exciting to see such obvious talent in the raw. Love the style, love the depth, keep it up and keep improving!
Quote from: Woolly on 29 January, 2012, 01:13:19 PM
I'd say maybe go with the current Lawgiver design from the comics,
As I recall, this is a flash back, so a mark one is what the script calls for.
I'm liking the reflection of Dredd in the knife.
Quote from: Nick Shepherd on 28 January, 2012, 12:15:48 AM
(http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/AcidMoose/JudgeDreddpencilled.jpg)
Very nice.
I would suggest that you flip the reflection of Dredd in the knife. As it is, it looks like he has his back to the action.
Quote from: Cthulouis on 29 January, 2012, 10:02:05 PM
Quote from: Woolly on 29 January, 2012, 01:13:19 PM
I'd say maybe go with the current Lawgiver design from the comics,
As I recall, this is a flash back, so a mark one is what the script calls for.
I'm liking the reflection of Dredd in the knife.
This is indeed a flashback - 20 years thereabouts. So when doing the later pages remember to age Dredd, adjust uniform a little.
Cheers for the feedback guys!!! Much appreciated.
Wow, really strong stuff, Sparkonaut! Like Crazyfox said, I'd love to see some inks n colour splashed on that. Just love the grimy crossed with cartoony style you have going on. :D
Thanks, chaps :) Trust me, I'm itching to wrap this one up.
That's bloody great that is. I love your MC-1. It feels real. The characters are great too - there's a lot of expression.
Thaks very much, Staticgirl :)
Ok,last page and that will be the last of me before the inks are done.
Btw, does anyone know if Tharg will be doing portfolio reviews at the London Super Con? I think I read on here that PJ said it's no good going the slushpile route, so I was hoping to take the direct approach.
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7023/6809437911_15869a9318_b.jpg)
hey guys,
I just have a question about inking. I was wondering what the industry standard is for traditional inking. What I was going to do was copy this page by onto bristol board and ink it which will be labour intensive. But I can't trace onto Bristol because it is too thick.
Also, this way of inking wouldn't work if I was inking someone elses work.
Any feedback would be most appreciated.
Sorry, you can ignore the above post. I just tested it out and I can trace through onto Bristol.
Silly me.
Also, should I have posted my Dredd work on the submission forum for sample scripts rather than start a new thread?
Lovely stuff, Sparkonaut, let's see it inked!
Cheers
Chi
Quote from: Sparkonaut on 03 February, 2012, 12:52:24 AM
Thaks very much, Staticgirl :)
Ok,last page and that will be the last of me before the inks are done.
Btw, does anyone know if Tharg will be doing portfolio reviews at the London Super Con? I think I read on here that PJ said it's no good going the slushpile route, so I was hoping to take the direct approach.
I think RELYING on the slushpile route was the act of a madman. Much better to get a straight forward portfolio review, and back it up (if tharg is ok) with further samples.
Top notch Dredd in that sample page, btw. Much stronger showing of Dredd than those earlier pages.
-pj
Sparkonaut lad, if you can produce this kind of work consistently and to a schedule, you were meant to be in my Prog. I love it - Ewins cut with Hewlitt and McCarthy, right up my street.
One, just one, criticism: your sealife could be mutified by oh, say 15%.
One minor/major note: I think you need to redesign that gun, the handle specifically, looks like it'd be impossible for Dredd or anyone to hold.Something to think about before inking...
-pj
Quote from: pauljholden on 03 February, 2012, 09:23:39 AM
Top notch Dredd in that sample page, btw. Much stronger showing of Dredd than those earlier pages.
Thanks,PJ. I was more careful this time round.
Quote from: TordelBack on 03 February, 2012, 09:48:46 AM
One, just one, criticism: your sealife could be mutified by oh, say 15%.
Good thinking!
Quote from: pauljholden on 03 February, 2012, 10:05:01 AM
One minor/major note: I think you need to redesign that gun, the handle specifically, looks like it'd be impossible for Dredd or anyone to hold.Something to think about before inking...
Will do. The inking is a refining process for me when I've already distanced myself from the first pages and rethink everything. Hopefully I'll iron out most of the clumsiness.
I Agree with all the good stuff said above Sparky, there's a great variety and life about your pencils, the BG detail are well observed but don't detract and I'm liking that fish (+15% mutie of course!)
well done sir!
Just in case you still need it
There is a thread where we've got some general reference images for the Cycles of Violence script:
http://www.2000adonline.com/forum/index.php/topic,26304.0.html
Steve Cook's blog often posts production snippets and he has a colouring guide to Dredd and Anderson that also gives a decent guide to Dredd's uniform:
http://secret-oranges.blogspot.com/2011/12/dredd-specs.html
http://secret-oranges.blogspot.com/2011/12/dredd-specs-2.html
And Anderson:
http://secret-oranges.blogspot.com/2011/11/anderson-specs.html
Which come from one of the Judge Dredd "bibles":
http://forums.2000adonline.com/index.php/topic,17566.0.html
The Starscans also contain useful information:
http://www.2000ad.org/?zone=covers&page=scans
Front view of characters:
http://www.2000ad.org/functions/cover.php?Comic=scans&choice=700
http://www.2000ad.org/functions/cover.php?Comic=scans&choice=701
http://www.2000ad.org/functions/cover.php?Comic=scans&choice=702
http://www.2000ad.org/functions/cover.php?Comic=scans&choice=703
http://www.2000ad.org/functions/cover.php?Comic=scans&choice=710
As well as cutaway technical diagrams of various bits of a Judge's kit:
http://www.2000ad.org/functions/cover.php?Comic=scans&choice=991
http://www.2000ad.org/functions/cover.php?Comic=scans&choice=995
http://www.2000ad.org/functions/cover.php?Comic=scans&choice=997
http://www.2000ad.org/functions/cover.php?Comic=scans&choice=998
As has been said, don't worry too much about the details (as everyone draws their eagle at a different angle or the shoulder pad a different size) but those should help avoid the more basic errors which make people wonder if the artist has ever read a Judge Dredd comic ;)
I'll add some of those links to the sample scripts thread as they might be useful.
Quote from: Nick Shepherd on 03 February, 2012, 03:34:06 AMAlso, should I have posted my Dredd work on the submission forum for sample scripts rather than start a new thread?
I'm a lumper not a splitter* so I'd lean towards the first option (I can still merge the two threads if you like) - more people keep an eye on that one so you'd possibly get more feedback and it is pretty useful resources for people looking for tips, especially as "Cycle of Violence" is the most popular script (the final panel on page 1 is a bugger and there must be a dozen permutations of it on there by now). However, the world is not going to end if there is a separate thread, it'll just make my brain itch ;)
* Although when it comes to taxonomy I find myself more in the splitter camp - make of that what you will.
I don't usually do this, but as I think you're art is pretty damn close to being there, I've rejigged it to show where I think you can give more room for the letterer/writer/editor to breath a bit. I'm glad to see a bunch of balloon placements in the pencils, but I don't think you've been generous enough with the space - the old 2000ad 10 commandments have a couple of guidelines for balloon/dialogue/caption placement - leave 25% of the top of every panel free and character speaking order is always left to right.
(http://www.pauljholden.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/dreddsample.jpg)
Panel 1: I've shifted the action over to the right a bit, this gives room for any captions required and doesn't take away anything from what's happening. Your eye reads left to right, and the space from Dredd's feet to the panel border was pretty much dead space - not contributing anything to the story telling. (BTW Nice sound effects!)
Panel 2: I've moved everything down again - cropping dredd a bit more heavily - normally not a great idea, but here it adds to the claustrophobia and gives more room for dialogue.
Panel 3: I've shifted Dredd down and a bit to the right - the aim here is to take the dialogue away from the bottom of the panel and shift it to the top - I prefer my dialogue above the art - read story then look at picture. How it's done in my house ;)
Panel 4: No chance (though you could stand to move the gun further from the ship to give more lettering room) If I were lettering this, I'd want to have a LARGE balloon and teeny tiny text, which I don't think there's room to do here - making a balloon big enough for dialogue alone isn't enough - sometimes the balloon will be larger than you'd think.
Panel 5: No change, though I don't like balloon placement on the guy. I'd probably have made panels 4 and 6 a bit thinner to give panel 5 a bit more room - more dialogue means larger panel.
Panel 6 - moved gun down a bit, giving more room for dialogue.
As I say, I don't normally micro suggest like this, but this is the sort of lettering pass I've often done on my own pages, keeping the art as intact as possible but giving letterers room to do their thing. Which is why I'm called LL Cool PJ*.
-pj
*Letterers Love Cool PJ.
Sparkonaut: Really impressive work and (like everyone else) I eagerly awaited the inked version. It is really great to see someone bring a different style to Dredd and make it work. I also think you made a good pick on the story - something like "Cycle of Violence" is a bit dark and the PF one a few pages back might be a little too... obvious given your style, while this one really gives you a chance to show what you can do.
Quote from: pauljholden on 29 January, 2012, 04:09:11 PMThe good stuff:
Not afraid to draw backgrounds. There's a couple of panels that look like you've glossed over the pencils, but as it's pencils for yourself to ink that's not a problem. But many of the panels are really nice and tight and filled with life - I especially love that second from last page, panel 2- with the guy with the TESKO bag. Lots going on but none of the story telling is lost. great job.
The flipside to this is that if you aren't careful you can lose the characters in the background at the inking stage. Colouring it would fix that but the sample pages have to be in B&W. Using colour holds on the inks would work (black and grey are still colours) - it'd help the characters pop against busier backgrounds and would give you atmospheric perspective (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_perspective) in some of the panels like the big first one. Or just a lighter line perhaps. You are probably already all over that angle anyway but I thought it worth a mention as it might be something you want to have in mind when you start inking. Although you can take that with a pinch of salt, as I can't draw for toffee, although if toffee was on offer I'd give it a go, it just wouldn't be any better ;)
Quote from: pauljholden on 03 February, 2012, 09:23:39 AM
Quote from: Sparkonaut on 03 February, 2012, 12:52:24 AM
Thaks very much, Staticgirl :)
Ok,last page and that will be the last of me before the inks are done.
Btw, does anyone know if Tharg will be doing portfolio reviews at the London Super Con? I think I read on here that PJ said it's no good going the slushpile route, so I was hoping to take the direct approach.
I think RELYING on the slushpile route was the act of a madman. Much better to get a straight forward portfolio review, and back it up (if tharg is ok) with further samples.
Also you can't go wrong with a bit of small press work, you never know who might be reading them - the Nerve Centre gets a copy of Zarjaz and Dogbreath, Hell I think the legendary shark managed to get John Wagner interested in picking up the next issue of Zarjaz!!).
In general just get your work out there (stick it on DeviantArt, for example) and, given the state of the British comics industry, a bit of small press success can't hurt either - if you look at the last 10+ years then quite a few showed what they could do in the small press first: Arthur Wyatt, Adrian Bamforth, Simon Spurrier (with PJ on art duties), Nick Dyer and Michael Carroll. Also Al Ewing's first Dredd was in Zarjaz, although he'd had some Future Shocks published beforehand.
Thanks Emperor for all of the useful info. I am currently working on page 2 which will need alot of references so thats a big help.
Also, that would be great if you could merge this thread with the submissions thread. The reason I posted this piece on this forum was to get as much critical feedback as possible. I really want people to tell me how I can improve.
Thanks,
Nick
Quote from: pauljholden on 04 February, 2012, 06:20:54 PM
As I say, I don't normally micro suggest like this, but this is the sort of lettering pass I've often done on my own pages, keeping the art as intact as possible but giving letterers room to do their thing. Which is why I'm called LL Cool PJ*.
Thanks, yo ;) Seriously though, I'm grateful for this. I'm used to doing my own indie comics where I'm the writer and letterer and get to shuffle things around, but I get that I don't have this option when working as a part of a team. I just need a wakeup call.
Cool, I'll get on it. It'll be easy enough just shrinking and filling in more detail in Photoshop.
Quote from: Emperor on 04 February, 2012, 07:03:26 PM
Sparkonaut: Really impressive work and (like everyone else) I eagerly awaited the inked version. It is really great to see someone bring a different style to Dredd and make it work. I also think you made a good pick on the story - something like "Cycle of Violence" is a bit dark and the PF one a few pages back might be a little too... obvious given your style, while this one really gives you a chance to show what you can do.
Thanks, Emperor. I couldn't resist drawing heads being blown off :D
Quote from: Emperor on 04 February, 2012, 07:03:26 PM
The flipside to this is that if you aren't careful you can lose the characters in the background at the inking stage. Colouring it would fix that but the sample pages have to be in B&W. Using colour holds on the inks would work (black and grey are still colours) - it'd help the characters pop against busier backgrounds and would give you atmospheric perspective (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_perspective) in some of the panels like the big first one. Or just a lighter line perhaps. You are probably already all over that angle anyway but I thought it worth a mention as it might be something you want to have in mind when you start inking. Although you can take that with a pinch of salt, as I can't draw for toffee, although if toffee was on offer I'd give it a go, it just wouldn't be any better ;)
What I usually do is adjust the line weights for images in the foreground to distinguish them from a busy environment. What I also though of doing for the bigger city scenes was to lower the opacity of objects in the distance to them a greyish look. What I do with my own comics is to use dotted half tone on certain objects to create more contrast.
(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTbFg8F1WCGCmx7VG5oZ6WuHuYgWYPtCGy8EBXk2VcQnktNLv7hLZshvHw)
Personally I dig this effect, but I've been wondering whether it'd make the art look a bit too retro for the newer progs. What do you guys think?
Quote from: Emperor on 04 February, 2012, 07:03:26 PM
Also you can't go wrong with a bit of small press work, you never know who might be reading them - the Nerve Centre gets a copy of Zarjaz and Dogbreath, Hell I think the legendary shark managed to get John Wagner interested in picking up the next issue of Zarjaz!!).
In general just get your work out there (stick it on DeviantArt, for example) and, given the state of the British comics industry, a bit of small press success can't hurt either - if you look at the last 10+ years then quite a few showed what they could do in the small press first: Arthur Wyatt, Adrian Bamforth, Simon Spurrier (with PJ on art duties), Nick Dyer and Michael Carroll. Also Al Ewing's first Dredd was in Zarjaz, although he'd had some Future Shocks published beforehand.
Hey, I see Rufus Dayglo also started on Dogbreath! To be honest, I've never checked these out. Might be an option. Some really good work on there.
Or put out a sizeable graphic novel rather than a pamplet - it's more likely to attract a wider body of interest than a fanzine. If you can work at speed and can write and draw, go for it. I'm doing exactly the same thing this year.
Quote from: John Caliber on 06 February, 2012, 12:08:35 PM
Or put out a sizeable graphic novel rather than a pamplet - it's more likely to attract a wider body of interest than a fanzine.
Been there, done that :D Only, it's just coming out, so I'm not sure how much interest will be garnered yet.
Ah, good stuff! Is it going to be featured on various publishing platforms, or just as hardcopy?
I'm experimenting with a story told in 6-panel pages to allow them to easily be pulled apart for iPad media. My writing method will also benefit from this page layout. I write a draft, a continuous narrative with no mention of panels. I then start drawing it and break it down as I draw, also performing story edits as I go. Much better to be able to write & draw at the same time, although a general overview of the plot has to first be in place.
My Wulf Sternhammer comic strip Where Wulf was based on a draft that was four times longer than the 8-page final version; I enjoy writing dialogue, but in this instance it dominated what was supposed to be a fast-paced story, so something like 100 speech balloons of yakkety-yak was discarded.
Quote from: Sparkonaut on 06 February, 2012, 11:28:31 AMQuote from: Emperor on 04 February, 2012, 07:03:26 PM
The flipside to this is that if you aren't careful you can lose the characters in the background at the inking stage. Colouring it would fix that but the sample pages have to be in B&W. Using colour holds on the inks would work (black and grey are still colours) - it'd help the characters pop against busier backgrounds and would give you atmospheric perspective (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_perspective) in some of the panels like the big first one. Or just a lighter line perhaps. You are probably already all over that angle anyway but I thought it worth a mention as it might be something you want to have in mind when you start inking. Although you can take that with a pinch of salt, as I can't draw for toffee, although if toffee was on offer I'd give it a go, it just wouldn't be any better ;)
What I usually do is adjust the line weights for images in the foreground to distinguish them from a busy environment. What I also though of doing for the bigger city scenes was to lower the opacity of objects in the distance to them a greyish look.
Yep that is the kind of thing I was thinking of - it should work very nicely.
Quote from: Sparkonaut on 06 February, 2012, 11:28:31 AMWhat I do with my own comics is to use dotted half tone on certain objects to create more contrast.
(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTbFg8F1WCGCmx7VG5oZ6WuHuYgWYPtCGy8EBXk2VcQnktNLv7hLZshvHw)
Personally I dig this effect, but I've been wondering whether it'd make the art look a bit too retro for the newer progs. What do you guys think?
Its a good old school effect made so much easier in these digital times. The key is to use it sparingly as I can often be a bit put off by the overuse of things like graytone. I think tinkering with the opacity will do most of the work for you but I'd like to see a version with that kind of screentone/letratone effect added too, to compare and contrast.
Quote from: Sparkonaut on 06 February, 2012, 11:28:31 AMQuote from: Emperor on 04 February, 2012, 07:03:26 PM
Also you can't go wrong with a bit of small press work, you never know who might be reading them - the Nerve Centre gets a copy of Zarjaz and Dogbreath, Hell I think the legendary shark managed to get John Wagner interested in picking up the next issue of Zarjaz!!).
In general just get your work out there (stick it on DeviantArt, for example) and, given the state of the British comics industry, a bit of small press success can't hurt either - if you look at the last 10+ years then quite a few showed what they could do in the small press first: Arthur Wyatt, Adrian Bamforth, Simon Spurrier (with PJ on art duties), Nick Dyer and Michael Carroll. Also Al Ewing's first Dredd was in Zarjaz, although he'd had some Future Shocks published beforehand.
Hey, I see Rufus Dayglo also started on Dogbreath! To be honest, I've never checked these out. Might be an option. Some really good work on there.
Yeah definitely look them up, there might even be or or two of the FQP chaps around here somewhere. ;)
Quote from: John Caliber on 06 February, 2012, 02:29:15 PM
I'm experimenting with a story told in 6-panel pages to allow them to easily be pulled apart for iPad media. My writing method will also benefit from this page layout. I write a draft, a continuous narrative with no mention of panels. I then start drawing it and break it down as I draw, also performing story edits as I go. Much better to be able to write & draw at the same time, although a general overview of the plot has to first be in place.
DC recently released a Justice League Beyond comixology comic, 69p for 22 'screens' - really half pages - adds up to about 13 pages of actual comic. The pages are displayed in landscape format, which looks really lovely on the ipad - nice wide screen and full colour. Format of the future...
-pj
Quote from: John Caliber on 06 February, 2012, 02:29:15 PM
Ah, good stuff! Is it going to be featured on various publishing platforms, or just as hardcopy?
CBZ, CBR, Pdf and hard copy. I'm curious to see what proportion of sales will be digital. I've been skeptical about the appeal of these. But then again, I am old fashioned where it comes to comics.
Quote from: John Caliber on 06 February, 2012, 02:29:15 PM
I'm experimenting with a story told in 6-panel pages to allow them to easily be pulled apart for iPad media. My writing method will also benefit from this page layout. I write a draft, a continuous narrative with no mention of panels. I then start drawing it and break it down as I draw, also performing story edits as I go. Much better to be able to write & draw at the same time, although a general overview of the plot has to first be in place.
That's probably the way to go. You can update more frequently and the pages fit the dimensions of most readers.
What I forgot to add: having a uniform panel size also makes it easy to cut, swap, delete or insert panels if the strip needs new story material added.
halfway with the inking. Taking way longer than usual because I'm getting lost in the details. Hope I finish in time for Super Con.
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7053/6896427681_2caa6871cf_b.jpg)
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7047/6896428251_5ddd1c94c1_b.jpg)
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7052/6896428907_a46da16d47_b.jpg)
That is looking very nice indeed. Looking forward to the rest.
Really nice stuff :) how long did this take you? x
That looks great Sparkonaut. You're characters are all so unique-looking and full of personality, I really like that. Crazy amount of detail going on in there too. Awesome stuff.
Quote from: Judo on 20 February, 2012, 03:06:17 AM
Really nice stuff :) how long did this take you? x
Too damn long (6 weeks?), but I've had a lot on my plate. Looks like I'll only be finishing it up to page 4 for the Con - not going to have time to do the rest before Saturday.
that's a shame you won't have it finished but alas speed is a lot of artists downfall. You should practice speed drawing - see how much of a page you can get done in say 2 hours - cos you might be able to work a lot faster to a similar standard with practice x
Quote from: Judo on 20 February, 2012, 05:37:06 PM
that's a shame you won't have it finished but alas speed is a lot of artists downfall. You should practice speed drawing - see how much of a page you can get done in say 2 hours - cos you might be able to work a lot faster to a similar standard with practice x
I agree there. Usually I can knock out 10 or so pages a month (working full time), but that's on my own comics. I haven't ever really drawn characters that weren't my own and now I think I've got a case of stage fright ;p I'm sure practice will sort it out over time.
I think the important thing is to have some inked pages done to the standard you want, you can also show the other pages too if he is interested in seeing them. Better that than 5 pages that you've rushed.
yes take your time with your portfolio and get it perfect. Just look at frank quitely - he submitted half finished work that was perfect and look where that got him. Just practice speed in your own time and yeah you will build confidence. To practice do your roughs on one sheet and then just ink straight over - that might give you a more dynamic fluid style too x
Last one.
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7044/6772770726_c724e1d743_b.jpg)
Quote from: Emperor on 20 February, 2012, 11:27:50 PM
I think the important thing is to have some inked pages done to the standard you want, you can also show the other pages too if he is interested in seeing them. Better that than 5 pages that you've rushed.
That's the other thing. Why rush when there's no real reason to?
Lovely stuff, I really like what you've done.
The only thing that strikes me looking over the inks is that while some panels have lush detailed backgrounds, some panels don't have any. Not a problem as far as I'm concerned, and it can really help focus the reader on the key figure in the panel (and speech balloons will take up more of the space), but it can lead to some figures being largely divorced from their surroundings - the judge in the fifth panel of that last page is almost floating in the air. Even a slight simple silhouette could help a lot and really help the colourist.
Anyway good luck at the con and be sure to let us know what kind of feedback you got.
Thanks! Will do :D
Ages ago (probably about 2 years!) I printed off cycle of violence with a view to having a go at it. I have finally gotten started on it. I decided to forgo all of my laborious process and just draw strait to the page from the script to keep in drawing practice.
(http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/5732/jdcycleofviolencepage1dx.jpg)
Quote from: Steven Denton on 23 February, 2012, 02:21:38 PM
Ages ago (probably about 2 years!) I printed off cycle of violence with a view to having a go at it. I have finally gotten started on it. I decided to forgo all of my laborious process and just draw strait to the page from the script to keep in drawing practice.
Love, love,
love that Dredd. I'm sure CF will have things to say about the shell casing, but I think that panel looks brilliant.
That's top quality Denton standard sequential artwork there. I bloody love it.
No luck at the Con :/, but in the interest of helping others avoid the same pitfalls, here's the review I got:
The art style they want for Dredd stories seems to be more on the realistic side rather than stylized. Matt also recommended I take up figure drawing to improve on my anatomy. Inking - should be heavier. Dialogue space - I didn't lave enough.
Ahhh sweet sweet feedback - for what it's worth Karl I think you kick the living arse and I'd love to have you draw something for me. IN FACT you're on my want list - !
Tough one, Sparkonaut. FWIW I absolutely love your style - but there's no harm in working on more realistic anatomy if it broadens the appeal of, and thus the market for, your work. It's not like you haven't got the rest nailed down already. Keep at it, I want to be reading your Dredd ASAP!
Quote from: Sparkonaut on 25 February, 2012, 07:55:52 PM
No luck at the Con :/, but in the interest of helping others avoid the same pitfalls, here's the review I got:
The art style they want for Dredd stories seems to be more on the realistic side rather than stylized. Matt also recommended I take up figure drawing to improve on my anatomy. Inking - should be heavier. Dialogue space - I didn't lave enough.
It's good advice, the bit about wanting more realistic styles on Dredd might help some people in the future. I thought it was a good pick but clearly if the style isn't want he is looking for then there isn't much you can do. The problem there is Tharg has so many great droids that can work in a realistic style, you'd have to come up with something exceptional to catch his eye. Not that you shouldn't give that a go mind, but it might be that next time you go for something like "Old Red" or "The Colossal Wealth of Karn Foul-Eye" that allows you make it your own, in your distinctive style.
Great constructive feedback, Sparkonaut. I for one really dig your style - but if Matt gives you good, solid feedback like that, it'll only make you even better.
I do agree with his assessment of the inking - not that I have a problem with it, not at all - but I personally prefer a bit heavier inking. Still, your stuff is dynamic and energetic, so you're ahead of plenty of others...
That's a shame - personally I'm a big fan of the more stylised Dredd artists - McMahon, McCarthy, Dyer etc - even Henry Flint, who I certainly wouldn't describe as 'realistic'!
I really dig your style Sparkonaut, it's right up my street.
Quote from: Sparkonaut on 25 February, 2012, 07:55:52 PM
The art style they want for Dredd stories seems to be more on the realistic side rather than stylized.
That kind of bugs me a bit to be honest. Dredd's the kind of story and character that can be sucessfully rendered in a lot of different art styles. In my opinion at least. Also, Nick Dyer has drawn Dredd more than once. Is his style hyper-realistic?
Anyway, impressive work Spark. Hope you favour us with some more of your work in the future.
Quote from: radiator on 25 February, 2012, 10:45:19 PM
That's a shame - personally I'm a big fan of the more stylised Dredd artists - McMahon, McCarthy, Dyer etc - even Henry Flint, who I certainly wouldn't describe as 'realistic'!
Those are my favourites too, especially Brendan McCarthy and McMahon. Kevin O'Neil also did a few, which looked as crazy cool as his other projects. To me, these guys are what made Dredd distinguishable from the American superhero characters of the time, which look too polished and wholesome for Dredd's warped, dystopian world.
Oh well. too bad. I'll work on my inking and anatomy though.
Funnily enough, Sparlonaut's stuff put me in mind of Radiator's work - which is not to say the look alike, more they share a "feel". I'd be happy to see either artist in my prog.
It's a bit weird as the best 200AD artists have always had a 'style'. They're not all Arthur Ranson are they? Oh well, in a few years time they might be tired of realism - these things tend to go in cycles.
I thought it was fantastic, Sparkonaut, and life drawing is fun. Have you ever done any Strontium Dog? I'd love to see your mutants.
I might sound like a moron but what do they mean by 'heavier inking'? Thicker lines?
Quote from: Noisybast on 26 February, 2012, 01:59:10 PM
Funnily enough, Sparlonaut's stuff put me in mind of Radiator's work - which is not to say the look alike, more they share a "feel". I'd be happy to see either artist in my prog.
And, like I said earlier, I like his stuff too :)
Quote from: staticgirl on 26 February, 2012, 07:29:19 PM
I thought it was fantastic, Sparkonaut, and life drawing is fun. Have you ever done any Strontium Dog? I'd love to see your mutants.
Thanks, Staticgirl. Nope. This was my first attempt at depicting characters that aren't my own. I'll have to assess what I do next (if anything at all). He suggested Sinister Dexter, which I'll look into if I can find a script.
Quote from: staticgirl on 26 February, 2012, 07:29:19 PM
I might sound like a moron but what do they mean by 'heavier inking'? Thicker lines?
I think he meant filling in more areas with black (like the shadows on Dredd's body suit), to make elements more discernible from each other.
Quote from: Sparkonaut on 26 February, 2012, 08:11:37 PMHe suggested Sinister Dexter, which I'll look into if I can find a script.
Ah ha. That is a good call. I don't believe there are any knocking about publicly, but I know someone who has one. I'm not really sure what the etiquette is about emailing Tharg about it (it helps if you've asked whether he could hook you up with a suitable script at a portfolio viewing, as you've broken the ice), as we don't want everyone emailing for scripts when there are a lot out there, but he did suggest a series for which public scripts aren't easy to come by. Unless anyone has any bright ideas, the simplest thing might be seeing if I ask the person I know with the script if they can pass it along.* Otherwise there are a couple of SD artists around here who might have saved one, but if there is a specific script you think you'd do well on then you might need to contact Tharg. However, we'll see what we can sort out first.
It makes me think it might be nice to get a new batch of scripts in Barney's archive, to freshen things up a little. If anyone is reading this who can help...
[edit: * It sounds like I'm being evasive but it might be they've been asked not to spread it around, so I wanted to avoid naming them so they don't feel pressured into it. I think quite a few people have seen their attempt at that already, so it is hardly a big secret.]
That'd be sweet, Emperor :D I was also thinking to do some homework on this and find a script I can shine on, so anything you can send my way would be great. That and I need to look at the newer progs. I've read Tordleback, Shakara, Zombo and some other new collections, but I have no idea of the other trends.
Quote from: Sparkonaut on 27 February, 2012, 09:22:26 AMI've read Tordleback, .... and some other new collections...
That's my favourite one, oh the adventures that dashing rascal has!
Quote from: Sparkonaut on 27 February, 2012, 09:22:26 AM
That'd be sweet, Emperor :D I was also thinking to do some homework on this and find a script I can shine on, so anything you can send my way would be great.
Righto. I'll ask around and see what I can rummage together.
Quote from: TordelBack on 27 February, 2012, 10:50:40 AM
Quote from: Sparkonaut on 27 February, 2012, 09:22:26 AMI've read Tordleback, .... and some other new collections...
That's my favourite one, oh the adventures that dashing rascal has!
I always thought he was a c[spoiler]
rackpo[/spoiler]t. ;)
Wow, Sparkonaut, you've posted some really stunning pages there. I'm not a pro of course but I like pretty much everything - the angles, perspective, backgrounds, characters. I'm really looking forward to what your pages will look like once you get the required anatomy and realism straight. Keep it up!
I had a day where I was waiting for the end of one part of a project before moving onto the start of the next part so I drew page 2 of Cycle of Violence.
(http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/9383/jdcycleofviolencepage2.jpg)
(http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/9873/jdcycleofviolencepage3.jpg)
It's back to work for me tomorrow so I will have to pick the rest of this up at a later date.
I like what you've done with that side panel there, works very nicely with the rest of the page - keeping the right side white helps the sub-panels "pop" more.
Overlaying the smaller panels over what is essentially a background panel also worked nicely on the previous page you had.
Yeah I think the panels overlaying the 1st image works really well and the page reads really well. I read through this script and theres alot of ground to cover in these six panels but the story here is clear to me.
Being constructive I would say the foreshortening on Kleins arm needs work and also that in the 4th panel klein on the bike seems to get lost in the detail of the background. Im working on my inking at the moment so I know how difficult it is to get variations in tones with just black and white. Look forward to seeing the other pages.
Thanks Emperor.
Terrapin, I agree with you kleins arm looks weird, I'm pretty sure that I ended up drawing the body and the arm in 2 different perspectives, school boy error. The 4th panel is a bit busy, it will be sorted out in the colouring but that's no excuse. Some times I go to far in the noodeling.
Hello Eveyone
I have maded my version of the sample script called Cycle of Violence. Im waiting for everyones reactions and comments.
http://darkpassenger1888.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d4siums(//)
http://darkpassenger1888.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d4sivgb(//)
http://darkpassenger1888.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d4siwt9(//)
http://darkpassenger1888.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d4sixti(//)
http://darkpassenger1888.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d4siygm(//)
http://darkpassenger1888.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d4siz3u(//)
Thanks for sharing.
Just a couple of quick thoughts:
- Don't letter these pages - this is general advice but especially here.
- You need to study more reference material for the Judges' uniforms, especially the helmet and eagle.
- You need to work on your anatomy - which is what just about everyone showing their early sample pages to Tharg get, but it is vital
It might help to work on more of a Judge pin-up image, get yourself up to speed with the anatomy and uniform, so it should make life easier when trying to draw them sequentially. Then you can work on fine-tuning things, which is why I've kept the advice more general.
I haven't seen beyond page 1 yet Dark Passenger but here are my thoughts.
I quite like the style although relative anatomy needs work. By that, I mean the heads tend to look too large. That's a legitimate comic style to take, but my understanding is that the editor wants a more realistic style of artwork for Judge Dredd at the moment.
I think inking needs work to. The foreground figures need to stand out more from the background.
Also, in the first two panels you've made quite a major mistake. Look at the caption in the first panel, then look at the woman. She's in a bad way, but she doesn't look dead.
Also, who are the bunch of other people in the first panel, lower right corner? Apart from the fact that I think only the kid should be there, the perspective is wrong.
Thank you for the comments.
Emperor do you think I should put the whole thing again unlettered?
Emperor can you send me a couple of reference material of the judges?
I think the helmets and the uniforms are a bit too twisted in my way, I tried to put my style in the uniforms ,I guess its too much.
I going to do another sample script.
Mardroid
If you have some free time check page 5 and 6.
Im more satisfied with those.
Quote from: dark passenger x on 12 March, 2012, 12:10:28 PM
Thank you for the comments.
Emperor do you think I should put the whole thing again unlettered?
Not at the moment, focus on getting the anatomy and the Judges right.
Quote from: dark passenger x on 12 March, 2012, 12:10:28 PMEmperor can you send me a couple of reference material of the judges?
There are links to reference material in the first post of this thread.
Before you letter your own comics again, go here and read this entire blog first http://clintflickerlettering.blogspot.com/ - !
I'm afraid Comic Sans MS is the biggest faux pas you can make comicswise and an editor will spot the red flag a mile off.
On the good side, I did like some of the effects you did and your art slightly reminds me of someone else but I be blowed if I can remember who it was, the one who made Maeve the Many Armed immortal for me....
Every artist should study anatomy and body language. You should also get yourself into small press comics for the confidence, experience and portfolio possibilities.
Dark passenger; It looks like you're trying to construct your figures from first principles, which is not necessarily a bad way to go and can give you a much greater understanding down the line. Unfortunately the human body is a confounding thing and almost always catches you out. Rather than worrying so much about trying to capture the surface muscle detail it's probably worth trying to consider your forms more in terms of volumes and shapes. Think about where the weight is, whether you're getting across the right sense of solidity or dynamism. Learning how the muscle groups fit together is useful and fascinating, but it's rendered fairly pointless if the overall figure is wrong or awkward.
It might be worth, as an exercise, taking one of your pages and then scouring the net/ papers/ magazines/ books, etc for examples of people in poses as close as possible to what you've drawn (sports photography can be quite useful). Then study them - don't try just copying what's there necessarily, it'll probably come across fairly flat, but try to understand and break down exactly what's going on - how a particular limb looks foreshortened towards the camera, how a leg tucks under the body, etc. Then redraw your page from what you discover. I guarantee* you'll learn loads and see an immediate improvement.
Alternatively, if you have access to a 3D package (Max, Maya, Poser, etc) then setting up poses in them can be helpful as well, especially for extreme foreshortening or explosive action.
Or just take pictures of yourself. Lots of the pros do that.
*Not a guarantee. Worked for me**, though.
**In terms of improvement, I mean. There's still always a lot to learn.
Just out of interest, does anyone have any facts and figures for the success rate of sending in sample scripts and strips from pretty much cold? It's interesting that 2000AD is still using a postal method when the majority of places* seem now to operate online submission policies that allow them to reject my stuff in a fraction of the time.
Don't get me wrong, I can see the convenience from an editorial point of view, especially with a publication that attracts a certain type of enthusiast that really wants to contribute to it quite often looooooong before they are ready**; a way of controlling the deluge. It's not a complaint; I always wanted to draw for the comic, practiced my art and as a result got sidetracked somewhere along the way by something similar but different that paid me every month. Fifteen years later when I think I'll try again, big surprise, I haven't spent that time practising drawing comics. I concede it's kind of important. In the meantime I've come here and have been lucky enough to meet kind and talented people who throw scripts my way and other people*** who offer to publish the results. Seems a good use of my time, to be honest.
But my experience of selling artwork does predominantly come down to the cliched, "who you know" - or, perhaps more accurately, "who knows you". So I was wondering; worth pursuing this method? Or better to maybe do some small press, and then stalk people at conventions? Perhaps take a hostage? Anyone have any idea?
It probably won't change anything I do, but I'm really interested to know.
* This is largely assumption on my part, I haven't carried out an exhaustive survey. I've mostly just applied to the places (like Wizards of the Coast) that do online submission 'cos it's more convenient, and the post office is always really busy at the times I can go****.
**I very firmly include myself in this category. I drew one of the sample scripts, got very close to it, a bit over-exciteable and then sent it off in a fit of enthusiasm. Then a week later I looked at it properly and cried. If I'd have been successful then I'd have lost all respect for Tharg. ;)
***Who, it should be said, are equally kind and talented.
****Why is that? Are they always busy? Or do people just come out at lunchtime or before work. Many of them don't look like they work. Maybe they'd be better going at, I don't know, 3pm or something. That's what I'd do if I could. Are post offices busy at 3pm?
Quote from: Jon on 19 March, 2012, 11:41:27 PMOr better to maybe do some small press, and then stalk people at conventions?
I'd have ye in one of my comics, lad! Although we don't pay. Well I do, but only in cider!
Well, thank you! I'm enjoying the small press stuff immensely. If it wasn't for the mortgage, that's all I'd do.
Alcohol is always a valid form of negotiation, of course.
Quote from: Jon on 19 March, 2012, 11:41:27 PMSo I was wondering; worth pursuing this method? Or better to maybe do some small press, and then stalk people at conventions? Perhaps take a hostage? Anyone have any idea?
Or option e) All of the above. Especially the hostage bit.
Firing off an attempt at a sample script is a good first start but as it is being sent in cold, you'd need something a bit special to help you stand out. So you also need to get your work out there - get a DeviantArt account, submit work to the small press, attend a convention if you can and chat with editors, chat to the pros and see what they think. As well as skill you need persistence and luck, but you can help the latter along.
Hi all, I'm new here, just thought I would join the party and post some pics. Gotta say I'm really impressed by all the talent on these boards!
Here is my version of the Cycle of Violence script which I did last year... its not a brilliant piece of work but it was my first attempt at sequential pages, I think I am getting better now as I am working on a new sample script and trying to correct the flaws from this one. That said, all comments and criticisms are most welcome!
Cheers!
Dan
Cover idea and pages 1-3
(http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n579/batdanuk/Comic%20Art/judgedreddcoverPRINT.jpg)
(http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n579/batdanuk/Comic%20Art/CycleofViolencepg1.jpg)
(http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n579/batdanuk/Comic%20Art/CycleofViolencepg2.jpg)
(http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n579/batdanuk/Comic%20Art/CycleofViolencepg3.jpg)
[Emp edit: Fixing third image]
Welcome. Nice idea to do a sample cover there - it works very nicely too.
A couple of quick thoughts:
That last panel on page 1 is the trickiest and might be one of the reasons this is a sample script, as it is a good test of an artist. It looks like the anatomy could do with a reworking, I don't believe there is an armpit strap for the shoulder pad (although it makes sense), Dredd wouldn't fire his weapon gangster-style, and the gun needs work, as I seem to recall this is a flashback so needs the Lawgiver Mk 1:
www.2000ad.org/images/tek/lawgiver.jpg
In the last panel on page two you flank it with two blocks of black and with such a small amount of room to play with I don't think you can afford to "waste" the space (unless the script calls for it and makes allowances for it). This would then free up more space for a proper shot of the Academy of Law in the second panel as that view doesn't really help the less knowledgeable reader (where the big shield saying "Academy of Law" rather drives the point home ;) ).
Also the question of chainlinks comes up here occasionally (although usually in jest these days) and while I'd not normally worry about it too much 5 (or possibly 6) looks a little too short.
Anyway good effort - keep at it.
Hey Emperor, thank you for the welcome and the positive comment about the cover idea.
Thanks also for taking the time to post feedback, much appreciated, and I agree with everything you have said.
I especially take on board your comment about the black spaces, I think I was trying to be all clever and designy but you are right that the space could be better utilised! Thanks for the reference link also.
This was my first attempt so hopefully if I keep trying I will get to a respectable level of skill. I'll post my second attempt when finished... I'm working on the Holed Up script which is a lot of fun.
Anyhoo, here's the last 3 pages.
Thanks again!
Dan
(http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n579/batdanuk/Comic%20Art/CycleofViolencepg4.jpg)
(http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n579/batdanuk/Comic%20Art/CycleofViolencepg5.jpg)
(http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n579/batdanuk/Comic%20Art/CycleofViolencepg6.jpg)
I like how the scenes showing the confrontation between Dredd and the boys father and later Dredd and the boy himself look almost identical. It fits the story pretty well.
Apart from what's been said already, Dredd appears to be shooting into the air in both panels where he is firing though. You need to draw his arm, and the gun, at a different angle. I know these things are tricky but it's quite important. (I haven't read the strip in a while, so if Dredd actually uses a ricochet round in those scenes, please ignore me. That would make sense in the earlier scene where the dad is using his kid as a human shield.)
Just to add, IMHO..I think you should definitely hang in there and perservere ..you'll get better at drawing the more you draw - obviously - but the thing that'll mark you out will be your ability to come up with panels like this:
(http://img816.imageshack.us/img816/1341/samplelq.jpg)
very cool..doesn't matter how good you get, you nailed that one
Mardroid, thanks for commenting! No ricochet... I just messed up the angle! I might take another stab at this strip taking into account yours and other's comments, they have been very helpful so thanks for taking the time to say something!
Mr Eight, thank you very much indeed! that gave me a much needed boost :) Yep, I'll keep on trying and get there hopefully, but good to know I got something right! Thanks again for the kind words of encouragement.
Dan :)
I got a couple of days free at easter so i had a go at the cycle of violence script. Ive been working on my inking technique since my karn fouleye attempt (p26) Ive also posted my inks without added textures. Feel free to scribble over them id love to hear some crits
(http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x357/terrapinman/cycle1shaded72.jpg)
(http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x357/terrapinman/cycle172.jpg)
Really like the one with the grey tones. Really atmospheric, almost noir. Works especially well on panels 1 and 4.
Good work!
Terrapin that's magical - ! The greytones look gorgeous -
I like the moody greytones too. I also especially like that bottom panel of the perp holding the knife because of his expression and the way the hair shows the direction of his movement.
wow. that's a lovely looking page, esp the textures. Hope to see more! well done :)
I think you've done a damn good job with that. The last panel is the Kobayashi Maru of comics (probably whey this is a sample script) and you've managed to make it work rather well - it is one of the best takes on it yet. I also think the greytones and textures really help soften up Expressionistic B&W work - it is definitely an angle to pursue in future (and/or might be worth applying to your previous sample pages to see if that approach helps them).
Looks great - very atmospheric. I like the second and fourth panels in particular, and you draw a good Dredd. (Always important! :D) I would say that the third panel is a little unclear, though; without a good look at the kid being held hostage in panel two, it's not obvious in the third that it's actually the hostage we're seeing, and not, say, a second kid looking out from a hiding place somewhere. I think that panel could do with to showing a little more of the man holding him to contextualise it.
thanks for all the comments guys - to pass the Kobayashi Maru of comics is a complement indeed, made my day cheers. You are right about that last panel rider, the pictures should tell the story and without the words here its hard to link the kid to the previous panel - like you said i think there needs to be more of an arm in shot.
Quote from: terrapin on 21 April, 2012, 08:34:17 PM
thanks for all the comments guys - to pass the Kobayashi Maru of comics is a complement indeed, made my day cheers.
Ah but the key is no one passes the Kobayashi Maru of comics, all you can do is not fail as badly as everyone else. Or cheat ;)
doh
Very nice, Terrapin. I prefer the greytone page, too. The second panel has so much depth thanks to that lighting from the doorway. Excellent. ;)
thanks for the encouragement darren! Ive been playing around seeing how these pages might look coloured - its a quick paint but its the colour scheme i had in mind - what does everyone think?
(http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x357/terrapinman/cycle1colored72.jpg)
Wow, that really pops.
Tharg will want to see your B&W work, so while colouring is never a bad idea, don't rely on it.
Quote from: Emperor on 25 April, 2012, 04:25:12 PM
Tharg will want to see your B&W work, so while colouring is never a bad idea, don't rely on it.
Too true. Having said that, I love those muted colours. Very nicely done.
I revised the first page of my karn foul eye submission using photoshop. I also made a few layout changes after pj holdens crit. Ive posted below the new page, id like to know what people think.
(http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x357/terrapinman/fouleye1.jpg)
Yeah I think that works better - it makes elements in the second panel pop nicely, it gives the picture more depth too.
Yes I like that and the first panel is lovely.
cheers, i think its a big improvement on the first effort. The advice on this thread has helped me no end so thanks for the comments!
(http://th00.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/i/2012/130/3/0/judge_dredd___cycle_of_violence_page_1_by_allistermac-d4zacdz.jpg)
(http://th03.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/i/2012/130/a/5/judge_dredd___cycle_of_violence_page_2_by_allistermac-d4zaez9.jpg)
Judge Dredd - Cycle Of Violence: Pages 1 & 2.
This is a submission I have been working on, I'm a long time fan of 2000 AD and I've long dreamed of seeing my work printed between its covers. I'll get the next 2 pages up here in a couple of days. I'm thinking of adding background detail to the panels on page 1. I am going to re-do the 5th panel on page 2 as it deviates from the script. Any feedback or comments would be gratefully received, I'd like to hear what you guys think before finalising and submitting my artwork to Tharg.
I have a deviant art gallery set up with more examples of my illustrations.
http://allistermac.deviantart.com/gallery/ (http://allistermac.deviantart.com/gallery/)
Complete non-creative here with a consumer's-eye view.
There's a lot there to like, particularly the clever use of computer shading to support some nice designs (the classroom desks, for example, a very nice panel all round), some dramatic action poses and a good take on the cadet uniform. There's a classic Robin Smith feel to some of the inking, and you look like you've deliberately drawn for B&W rather than colour, which is always a bonus for me.
However (deep breath, look away now), it does suffer from inconsistencies which stall the flow (for me), and which I imagine are the result of solving new (to you) problems with each panel. For example, it's hard to reconcile Young Travolta in Pg1 Pn3 with Young Van Gogh in Pg2 Pn1., never mind The Visible Man in Pg. 2 Pn 4. - faces in general seem dropped-in rather than part of the characters, and that immediately distracts me by forcing me to think about who I'm looking at each time.
There are easier-to-fix puzzles that also distract: on Pg 1 why does Dredd cast a shadow but nobody else does? Why is Mom wearing a bikini? What sort of shattered coffee table produces an A3-size amount of thick plate glass but nothing else?
More specifically and hopefully constructively, I'd ask you to think about why my eye is drawn to that very lonely cactus instead of the knife in Pg 1 Pn 2? This is your chance to set the scene, to let us know we're in a future hab in MC-1 and what the stakes of the encounter are: instead I find myself looking at blank wall and what might be the corner of my own living room (and despite all that blank space, there's still nowhere for the logo and credits to go). Dredd's gun points at nothing in particular, and nor does the shard of glass that's the focus of this scene: the lines of the two weapons converge in blank space somewhere above the Dad's face and I find my eye drifting up there and then wandering back down to that drab succulent which lurks at the convergence point of all the other lines in the panel, completely missing the action and defusing the tension.
So what I'm trying to say is you may need to think about the composition in terms of what it is you want me to look at and take away, and work around that. In offering up these criticisms please understand that I have trouble drawing convincing stick-men and I could never produce anything resembling these pages, so I'm approaching it purely as a potential reader who'd like to see more of what you can do.
Quote from: allistermac on 10 May, 2012, 07:46:24 AM
Judge Dredd - Cycle Of Violence: Pages 1 & 2.
This is a submission I have been working on, I'm a long time fan of 2000 AD and I've long dreamed of seeing my work printed between its covers. I'll get the next 2 pages up here in a couple of days. I'm thinking of adding background detail to the panels on page 1. I am going to re-do the 5th panel on page 2 as it deviates from the script. Any feedback or comments would be gratefully received, I'd like to hear what you guys think before finalising and submitting my artwork to Tharg.
I have a deviant art gallery set up with more examples of my illustrations.
http://allistermac.deviantart.com/gallery/ (http://allistermac.deviantart.com/gallery/)
Hi!
Showing a lot of potential, I think. I like your Dredd in the last panel of page 1.
A couple of suggestions;
I can't remember the script, but had the girl had fallen through a table or something? I think some evidence of why there's glass underneath her would be useful, otherwise it just feels a bit odd.
The perspective feels a bit off in places, especially in the last panel of page 2. Somehow everything feels a bit close to the floor.
Good start though. Be interested to see the rest.
Hi,
TordelBack and Jon, thank you very much for taking the time to look at my work and for the constructive criticism. I think you've both hit the nail on the head about the things that could be improved in the pages I've produced so far.
Creating these pages has been a steep learning curve and has given me even more respect for established 2000AD artists.
I have attached the 3rd page. Once again it is work in progress, the last panel still need a fair bit of work. I'd be interested to hear any more feedback.
(http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2012/131/e/0/judge_dredd___cycle_of_violence_page_3_by_allistermac-d4zbe77.jpg)
Hi Allister,
Overall, in a nutshell that is some GREAT art! I really like your lines, they're really crisp and clean. I can't offer you the kind of indepth advice/criticism that an artist can but I can tell you what I like. I can see your attention to detail with the oldskool Lawgiver being used by Dredd on page one then the modern version (is it mk 2) being used Klein later on. I liked that! I also like the Travolta-esque look you gave young Klein. The one criticism I could give to some other attempts I've seen at this script is that young Klein looks a bit generic and the lack of fear on his face doesn't really come across. But with your take on him it does. In fact, there's a bit of Brian Bolland about that close up!
Also, some of the framing and positioning you use reminds of Mick Austin's old stuff (Haven't seen any of his art for years though) some of the expressions do too. Page three, panel 1 is a good example. - take all that as a compliment by the way! I loved his art! With the right colouring your art could own!
Thanks for showing it - as I've said before that last panel on page 1 is almost designed to catch people out and I think that you've come up with a good solution and it is a fine Dredd.
Anyway I think the above comments are good, a few quick thoughts in addition:
- It is what Tharg says to most new artists - work on your anatomy. There aren't any examples of it going terribly wrong but in page 1, panel 2 Dredd's centre of gravity is way off, he is either about to fall flat on his arse or is practising to enter the annual Justice Department limbo dancing contest. It is the most basic advice and the most important - if you think you've nailed it, keep working on it. Don't be afraid to take photos of yourself in poses to get all the angles and proportions right.
- Some of your backgrounds look empty, which can make it difficult to put the figures in context
- You've got a lot of fine shading linework in there but I'm going to guess it is some kind of automated process (possibly in Manga Studio) and the problem with that is that there is always the temptation to overuse it (like lens flare when people first got their hands on Photoshop) and it can also look a little... sterile as they are of very uniform size and spacing - the bottom 4 panels of the second page are good examples of both of those (it is bordering on being similar to the optical illusions where the image is static but seems to move). All that before an example of where it seems to have gone wrong in the first panel of the third page - if you are going for one of those manga-style starburst of lines to denote action then they'd tend to radiate from a common point, which these don't do, the area between the shoulder pad and the righthand side of the panel being especially noticeably wrong.
I activated your account, so had time for a good nose around your work and, to be honest, I prefer your cleaner line:
http://allistermac.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d4ane6i
Or where the crosshatching is more handdrawn:
http://allistermac.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d4andnv
Or you use a different kind of texture:
http://allistermac.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d4o33o7
Which can be tricky as it is then designed to look good when coloured and Tharg wants to see B&W:
http://allistermac.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d4andwn
http://allistermac.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d4nu6m4
My suggestion would be to go with the cleaner line but use greytones to the shape, solidity, depth and texture you need. For example your Hulk pencils are tasty:
http://allistermac.deviantart.com/gallery/?offset=48#/d49115z
But the inking is a little too harsh:
http://allistermac.deviantart.com/gallery/?offset=24#/d4911tg
Don't go over the top with it (as some folks do tend to lay it on a little heavy), keep it light like the shading you did on the woman in the Cthulhu picture which worked really well. It should also give you a much better effect when coloured too. For an example of how that might work take a look at Simone Bianchi's inkwashes, which when coloured give a very... painterly effect:
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=simone+bianchi+inkwash&tbm=isch
http://simonebianchi.deviantart.com/gallery/
Improve the anatomy and the shading, throw in plenty of practice, and you'll be laughing ;)
Rorschachs_Journal, thank you for looking at my work and the undeserved praise. Surely comparing my work to the mighty Brian Bolland is considered blasphemy!
Emperor, you have raised some very good points that I will definitely need to address before I submit my work. I really appreciate you taking the time to give me your insights.
I agree that I have a lot of work to do on my shading technique. I am currently making the transition from traditional to digital inking which sometimes feels like learning to draw again with the wrong hand. I have been using Photoshop and have created a number of brushes which I have been using to shade, which has contributed to the loss of the more organic feel that is displayed in the pics with the hand drawn crosshatching. I currently reside in Sydney so I figured I'd better go down the digital route if I'm ever to hope to get work for 2000 AD in the future.
I am starting to see the benefits in laying out drawings digitally and the more I practice the quicker and easier it becomes. Saying that I started these pages the traditional way with pencil on Bristol Board before scanning them and taking them into Photoshop.
I have attached the final 2 panels from page 6 which I created from scratch digitally a couple of days ago, I've been a lot more sparing with the crosshatching, probably because it is unfinished and I will be tempted go over the top once I go to work on Dredd.
I'll get the next 3 pages, as they stand, up here shortly. The feedback I've been getting has been invaluable and really helps. Thank you for the link to Simone Bianchi by the way. I loved his work on Astonishing X-Men with Warren Ellis. Sorry if mentioning spandex wearing superheros on the 2000 AD forum is a faux par.
Quote from: allistermac on 10 May, 2012, 11:19:20 PMThank you for the link to Simone Bianchi by the way. I loved his work on Astonishing X-Men with Warren Ellis. Sorry if mentioning spandex wearing superheros on the 2000 AD forum is a faux par.
Not at all, it is his work on AX-M and Thor that got me thinking about what you could do with more subtle grayscales that you can colour over. I even hassled Colin MacNeil about it, as he is one of the few droids (only?) who uses inkwashes, and he has experimented with colours over his inkwashes. It was the Cthulhu picture that made me wonder if something like that might work for you.
I love the artwork of Colin MacNeil, a true master at his craft. I had the pleasure of meeting him and getting a Devlin Waugh sketch from him at DreddCon VI. I attended the portfolio session there with a few pictures I'd done in the preceding weeks, a couple of which are in my Devian Art gallery. I got some positive feedback, particularly for the Sinister Dexter picture you preferred, but they really wanted to see some sequential comic art. I've finally got round to producing some 7 years later.
I had been considering experimenting with ink washes after looking at the work of Adi Granov, another Artist I became aware of after his collaboration with Warren Ellis. He uses pencil, ink and gouache which is then coloured and results in a very painterly effect. I'm sure you are aware of his work but here's a link to his site: http://www.adigranov.net/artwork_cover.php (http://www.adigranov.net/artwork_cover.php)
(http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2012/131/6/d/judge_dredd___cycle_of_violence_page_4_by_allistermac-d4zfeoa.jpg)
(http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2012/132/3/0/judge_dredd___cycle_of_violence_page_5_by_allistermac-d4zfjy3.jpg)
(http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2012/132/2/b/judge_dredd___cycle_of_violence_page_6_by_allistermac-d4zfm5b.jpg)
Judge Dredd - Cycle Of Violence: Pages 4, 5 & 6.
I have attached the last 3 pages of my Cycle Of Violence submission as it stands. All the pages need some work. I'm not happy with the bottom cityscape on page 4. It needs to be a lot more intense futuristic and overwhelming. I also seem to have made one of the buildings resemble a corn on the cob, which is not ideal. I'm also going to add background detail to some of the panels on page 5 and 6 so that the characters are not floating in space.
If anyone has any further comments or suggestions I'd love to hear them.
Quote from: allistermac on 11 May, 2012, 09:35:06 AM
I'm not happy with the bottom cityscape on page 4. It needs to be a lot more intense futuristic and overwhelming. I also seem to have made one of the buildings resemble a corn on the cob, which is not ideal.
I'm sure Freud would've had a field day with some of my attempts at the Meg over the years. It gets me how you never really notice til you've finished.
Don't mention it Allister! Checked out your stuff on DeviantArt too. REALLY like your colouring on the Dredd image, it's got a really oldskool feel to it, which I love! Reminds me of the kind of art/colouring that was on show when I first got into 2000ad (around '94) !
Also, the Forbidden Thrills cover art is AWESOME!
Please keep us up to date with your work! I really like it and I'm looking forward to seeing your revised pages for the submission after all the good advice.
Nice work Allister - lots of inspiring stuff on your deviant page! Inspired by the work of Simone Bianchi also with his inkwash pieces, so I thought id have a go using a sketch I did of Slaine entering warp spasm. I know this is a thread for sample attempts so ive added a link to it below, take a look
http://terrapin-man.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d4zqc2p
Quote from: allistermac on 11 May, 2012, 07:16:34 AM
I love the artwork of Colin MacNeil, a true master at his craft. I had the pleasure of meeting him and getting a Devlin Waugh sketch from him at DreddCon VI. I attended the portfolio session there with a few pictures I'd done in the preceding weeks, a couple of which are in my Devian Art gallery. I got some positive feedback, particularly for the Sinister Dexter picture you preferred, but they really wanted to see some sequential comic art.
Yes that was one of the ones that caught my eye and is a style to pursue and experiment with. It can never hurt to develop your own style because it makes it easier for people to see a story and think you'd be ideal for it and if there are a lot of people working in a similar style then why would you get picked over all the others (it is one of the things 2000AD is great at - picking artists with unique, individual styles who might not get the push they might from other companies. Unfortunately, they also tend to get nicked by the Big Two - Jock, Frazer Irving, etc., etc.).
Quote from: allistermac on 11 May, 2012, 07:16:34 AMI've finally got round to producing some 7 years later.
Better late than never ;)
Quote from: allistermac on 11 May, 2012, 07:16:34 AMI had been considering experimenting with ink washes after looking at the work of Adi Granov, another Artist I became aware of after his collaboration with Warren Ellis. He uses pencil, ink and gouache which is then coloured and results in a very painterly effect. I'm sure you are aware of his work but here's a link to his site: http://www.adigranov.net/artwork_cover.php (http://www.adigranov.net/artwork_cover.php)
Yeah I definitely think it'd be worth looking at - you don't have to use actual ink, subtle grayscale should work well. Although I like the stylised Dredd head in the third panel of the last page, I suspect that shading linework is a bit much (although keep tinkering, especially if there is a way to add a little... noise/randomness into it) but see how it goes.
Emperor, I've always loved the fact that 2000AD features the work of unique artists rather than the more formulaic styles that go down so well across the pond. Thank you for all the great advice, I'm putting it to good use and revising the pages. I'll have the first 2 amended pages up here before too long.
Terrapin, thanks for your kind words I really like your take on the script and your Slain picture.
Judge Dredd - Cycle Of Violence: Revised Pages 1, 2 & 3
(http://th06.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/i/2012/137/7/b/judge_dredd___cycle_of_violence_page_1_by_allistermac-d4zacdz.jpg)
(http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2012/137/4/4/judge_dredd___cycle_of_violence_page_2_by_allistermac-d4zaez9.jpg)
(http://th00.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/i/2012/137/c/2/judge_dredd___cycle_of_violence_page_3_by_allistermac-d4zbe77.jpg)
I've made a few changes to the first three pages of my submission after all the good advice I received.
I have altered Klein's features on pages 2 and 3 so that they are more consistent with the first page and given his mother a bit more clothing. I've cut back on the linework shading and added a lot more background detail. I completely re-did the 5th panel on page 2 because it was deviating from the script. I've not experimented with the inkwash/greyscale as yet but I'm intending to once I have re-visited the remaining pages.
Please let me know what you think, I'm always looking to improve and the comments I've had so far have really helped.
That's nice. The lad looks rather older in page one panel 3 though, and Dredd in panel two still looks rather off-balanced.
Spoken from the POV as a reader mind you. I can't draw that well.
Great work Allister! Love the boots on you've stuck on Klein's Mum. Living room looks great too!
Hello, Allistair
First: I'm impressed with the way you've handled the crits you've been getting on here, taking them on the chin and learning from them - take heed anyone who wants to work in comics, this is how you do that. (I've seen people crumble at the first criticism, and storm off with "Well, I've seen worse work printed in the comic" - to the editor - not a way to ensure a future in the Galaxy's Greatest Comic...)
I'll confine my crit to the revised pages as you've clearly learned from earlier comments - and while I hope I'm not overly harsh, you invited me, so I'll take the opportunity to be as blunt as I'd hope someone else would be to me (though probably I'll be too blunt as I'm a tactless idiot).
Page 1, panel 1: Good composition on a hard pose. She has a youthful face but a slightly older body (and a very mannish hand) if you tone down much of the hatching - less is more. Also: her neck could be slightly more graceful than it is. I'll sometimes take things like this in photoshop and cut the head from the body and move it about a bit to check if it's in the right place, maybe worth doing (or it could be some more flecks of hair over her neck will take away the odd look.)
Page 2, panel 2: This worked for me better when the walls where blank, now there's too much going on and it's hard to find the focal point. (Though I appreciate this is a particularly tough panel to do - requiring, as it does, three areas of focus). Am I supposed to be looking at the guy with the binoculars? because, right now, that seems to be the important detail.
Also: that sofa is either tiny or those people are giants. Work on perspective - and figure out a way to make it your slave rather than your master!
Panel 3: Has has been mentioned, kid is way too old looking here (compared to the next panel) too many rendered lines. Also - and I see compared to earlier pages you've toned it down a bit, the parallel line inking you're doing here is adding nothing of value to the art - and is, in fact, a distraction.
Panel 4: Nice drawing (his hand looks a big over large though) the rendering on his body is way more successful here, more organic and subtler. It is a little lacking in drama though (haven't read the script, is this intentional?)
Panel 5: Classic Dredd Pose and a nice drawing. The problem with a classic Dredd pose is Tharg has seen EVERYONE do it - from Bolland all the way down to me. You need to think outside the box a little - an upshot? a dutch angle? More exagerrated? Dredd's face in total shadow? Something to make it 'pop'.
Overall story telling was nice and clear. Panel on panel inking etc got progressively better. Which is a great sign. Anatomy isn't bad at all. Though it's lacking in drama (a different panel arrangement? more extremes? if you're doing a close up - thing of a really super close up?)
I'd try and break away a little from the grid you're using. Yes, it worked for watchmen, but it can be very stifling (via Lee Grice on twitter: http://www.idrawdigital.com/2009/11/tutorial-composition-and-page-layout/ )
Page 2:
Panel 1: kids face is freaking me out a bit. You had him spot on on panel 4 of previous face.
Panel 2: I'm not buying these city scenes at all. Too clean and compressed. You want awe and then some in that - maybe consider the angle, an extreme low angle or high angle to give the shot some drama.
Panel 3: lots of bald kids at a table in a room. No real context. Also you've that texture effect is very samey and tends towards moire - not good!
Panel 4: Another mid shot - too many mid shots, angle think about angles, higher or lower. You want to consider every panel in relation to the previous and next panels - is this the same type of shot? could I make this different? (you want variety between panels)
Panel 5 again, too close in to see where we are here.
Panel 6: perspective on this is wonky. If he stood up that door would look absurdly tiny.
Page 3: Inking on this is different, I get the sense page 2 was drawn and pages 1 and 3 were redrawn later? Anyhue.
Panel 1: Constipated judge shot - we're all guilty of this! You need to think about texture - what is the fabric of his outfit? what kind of material is the helmet? what kind of material is the baton? They're all different and should be inked to reflect that.
Panel 2: Nice wide shot, though you could certainly stand to be braver with pure black (as you are in ...
Panel 3: if you got closer into the dudes in the foreground (and put them in shadow) with them much larger in fore and the guy standing up much smaller, you'd have a more ominous shot.
Panel 4: is interesting. It sort of reminds me of an Dr Peppers or Yellow submarine (it's mostly he guy in the boots) but, if you want a judge to look menacing, you want a lower angle on him. (And texture!)
Panel 5: there's those unconvincing cityscapes again - I remember reading a Mike kaluta sketchbook where he talked about drawing a castle and saying you have to really think your way into architecture - where are the toilets? what function does this window have? You're aiming for McMahon dome structures, but have a look at some of Mike's work and try and see what he's doing with them, not just their shape but the total picture.
Panel 6: Either that judge is sitting VERY high up, or the other judge is very tiny. Given the only visual clue I have for that is from panel 2 where the judges AREN'T seated high up, well... that makes him look tiny (or, possibly far away, but the eyelevels don't work for that)
Overall: not bad. Get some more pages in and you'll come along nicely. As the pages seem to have been worked in in bits and bobs - it's hard to know if I've crit'd anything that you've fixed later (for example, panel 6 judges uniform shows at least three different textures - which is a good thing, but not something you did earlier)
You need to think about where you're cropping figures - are you cropping them because, well, you've run out of room to draw them, or is it serving a dramatic purpose?
Also: spotting blacks (ie placing shadows on the page). I'm very much of the opinion, "if in doubt, black it out". Silhouettes can be your friend (for example, you could easily silhouette the buildings in the background on panel 5) and think about placing the blacks on the page not as shadows, but as a way to direct the story telling. A good, effective example of this is much much earlier in this thread : http://forums.2000adonline.com/index.php/topic,27411.0.html where the black was used as a story telling device.
Anyhue, take heart: you're going in the right direction and being able to take criticism is a good way to ensure you keep going that way.
-pj
(ps I haven't mentioned it too much, but I that computery striped line thing you were doing? please don't do that ...)
Fascinating to see changes made so quickly, and with such good grace. You're a quality act, allistermac.
Hello Paul,
Thank you for taking time out from your own drawing to give me such an in-depth crit, I really appreciate the help and advice. You don't have to worry about being too harsh with me, the blunter the better. I'm still learning and I need to acknowledge my shortcomings if I'm to improve and become a better artist and serve the story.
I wont address any of the valid issues you have raised here and now, I will do it when I revisit my submission and implement the advice you have given. Thanks again.
TordeBack, thank you for your kind words.
Quote from: allistermac on 18 May, 2012, 06:34:42 AMI'm still learning and I need to acknowledge my shortcomings if I'm to improve and become a better artist and serve the story./quote]
Any comic who acknowledges their role as the servant of the story instead of the star has got the right attitude if you ask me. I'm looking forward to seeing how you develop. You are reminding me slightly of Brett Ewins which is good as he was different from the masses.
Woh, thats a good crit from PJ - strong critiques like this are what makes this thread so important for us aspiring artists. Good job with the changes youve made so far Alistermac. PJ critted my work on my last sample attempt and it was a real help - look forward to seeing your revised pages.
I FINALLY read that script! Yay! (well, the first page) here's my thoughts along with one possible approach to it: http://www.pauljholden.com/blog/2012/05/19/a-cycle-of-violence/
-pj
Just noticed that PJ has drawn up his layouts for page one and (not that I consider myself to be in anywhere near the same league) thought I would do the same before taking it to pencils. Any thoughts/ comments on the layouts gratefully received.
Hi Paul, tight layouts! I think the point PJ made about the first panel being an establishing shot is important. The image of the murdered woman should linger through the remaining panels on the page I feel. By making the panel bigger you give it more importance and also i think makes the reader look at it for a longer space of time allowing for an emotional response. The perspective in the second panel works well -I found this tricky. I think if there was a little more space between the two characters it would create more suspense in the scene- no way dredds missing from there. The close up is great but the characters seem to be facing in different directions over the 2nd to 4th panel and it confuses whats happening i think. Hope that is useful.
I just tried to download the sample script for sorrow hill but was sent to an error page when clicking on the link. Can anyone send me a working link to the sample scripts?
Quote from: terrapin on 19 May, 2012, 01:19:32 PMI just tried to download the sample script for sorrow hill but was sent to an error page when clicking on the link. Can anyone send me a working link to the sample scripts?
There's a link on the submissions guidelines page here (http://www.2000adonline.com/submissions).
cheers
Quote from: terrapin on 19 May, 2012, 01:19:32 PM
I just tried to download the sample script for sorrow hill but was sent to an error page when clicking on the link. Can anyone send me a working link to the sample scripts?
Thanks for flagging that up - I've updated the link.
I've been skimming this thread. It's interesting reading. I completely agree with what PJ is saying and having had a look at his version of the layout on page 1 of that script I doubt I could improve on it. Also big props to allistermac for how he's taking the criticism, that's exactly the right attitude to adopt.
My comments are more general in relation to allistermac's pages. There's a general problem with staging and creating a sense of space. Obviously perspective is very important here, but even more important than that is building a sense of 3 dimensional space in your own mind. You do that by drawing real life stuff happening in real life situations. kitchens, subway stations, burger joints, pubs etc. Eventually your brain acquires an understanding of 3 dimensional staging, you will just feel when something is wrong. The time to apply a perspective grid is AFTER you have drawn the rough layout. That may seen counterintuitive, but nothing kills a drawing deader than trying to draw a real space starting from a ruled perspective. Real spaces have a chaos to them that you can apply if you have experience actually drawing from life.
The other thing that I'm having difficulty with if the use of extremely precise and clinical feathering. Unless you need to draw a stainless steel cooking pot there is really very little use for that technique ( put down the Brian Bolland & Cliff Robinson for the time being ). You would be better served by thinking in terms of black and white panel composition. Good black placement will create more sense of weight than any amount of feathering. In fact feathering should be used as sparingly as you can as a way of subtly softening hard edges. Hunt out some Alex Toth artwork. Look at how he composes a panel, how he places black, how he builds drama through composition. You might not get it at first, but everything you need to know is there.
Ok that's enough for now.
Keep at it, determination is a huge part of succeeding in comics.
Simon.
Saw PJ's blog post this morning, thought I would give it a go for practise and to start building up a few fresh samples. Some seriously sterling advice on this thread.
So here's mine (page 1 anyway). Took a liberty with the angle in panel 1, but hey.
(Hope this doesn't come out too massive, I'm on my phone with no idea how this'll come out.)
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7071/7230370060_e55e35b71c_h_d.jpg)
(Edit: used smaller image)
Crits welcome, naturally. Flickr link: http://www.flickr.com/photos/struthersneil/7230370060/sizes/o/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/struthersneil/7230370060/sizes/o/)
Yeah, man. I'm diggin that bit of work.
Love the change in the first panel - the girl looks like she was blown off her feet, expression of surprise left intact. The boy's eye peering down at the blade in 1:4 is great, too. In fact, I feel all of your panels are bold and confident.
If I had to nitpick - and believe me, I like what I see here - is that in 1:2, the perp seems a bit too "stiff" or posed. But overall, great stuff.
Simon, Thank you for taking a look at my work and your words of wisdom and encouragement. Creating convincing environments is something that I need to work at and practice. I will give my photoshop brushes a rest and go back to a more organic hand drawn approach to shading. I thought it was going to speed up my drawing but it's a lot quicker the old fashioned (right) way.
I've looked at PJ's blog and his approach to drawing the script on his blog which is a great help. It is good to get an insight into how an experienced artist works.
What a great place this forum can be. Detailed critiques by PJ Holden and Simon Fraser, two artists at the top of their game. Fascinating stuff.
Very unique page design. The shadows really give it depth and I'd love to see more.
Only one criticism. Where's Judge Dredds elbow Pads?
struthersneil - I like this, you're using blacks well to build 3D space, drama and mass. Also you are using different hatching to convey form , but also texture. Well done.
My criticisms are more to do with how you are drawing the characters. I like how you have staged panel 1, but I'm not 100% sure if she is a dead human or a robot/dummy. I want to see a little more death in her face. The way that her muscles would relax after trauma. Experiment in front of a mirror and see what you can come up with.
I'm not seeing enough continuity between shots of the boys face, so that it's not obvious to me that this is the same character in all 3 panels. Also, even though this kid is obviously traumatised, he's still a kid and shouldn't look too monstrous. There should be some innocence left in his face. We need to relate to this kid's pain.
Lastly, I'm not at all convinced by your Dredd. While the figure has a pleasingly meaty bulk It's pretty much off-model. You need to reference that stuff. Also bear in mind that the character has a great deal of physical self-assurance. Though the scene is terrifying there is nothing in Dredd's posture that should suggest fear or uncertainty. If anything his body will have an almost monolithic conviction about it. Stand in front of a full length mirror and think yourself into a Clint Eastwood stance. I tend to go with John Wayne myself because Dredd in my mind moves with a slow and unstoppable intent.
You're doing a lot of things well here. The fact that I'm talking more about character implies that you are fairly solid on the basics.
WSS*
-pj
*Wot Simon Said
Quote from: Paul_Ridgon on 19 May, 2012, 01:38:50 AM
Just noticed that PJ has drawn up his layouts for page one and (not that I consider myself to be in anywhere near the same league) thought I would do the same before taking it to pencils. Any thoughts/ comments on the layouts gratefully received.
I know this is entirely my fault, but asking for a crit on a layout is hard to do - is the figure in panel 1 a placeholder for you to work out the details or is that as good as it gets? No way to really know.
I'll say this, regarding panel 2 - and it's, more or less how MOST have executed this panel, is a very distancing shot - you become aloof to what's going on - you're NOT part of the action at all - sometimes this is the way you HAVE to go - because the writers made a request that really can only be executed by a distant shot. As a rule of thumb (and all rules of thumbs can be ignored if you can execute well) ariel shots (or birds eye views) distance the reader from the action, it's the the spy cam watching the action from hundreds of miles away. Worm view shots (looking up at the action) can be ominous, frightening shots. Tight to the action (in between protaganists) are your stuck in the action pics.
Also you've slightly broken the 180 rule (again, a rule you CAN break in service to the story) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/180_degree_rule
Flipping panel 1 on the horizontal will fix that.
Thanks gents--spot on with the crits. Dredd's missing elbow pads--such a gaff. Oh well. Missed it at the sketch stage, then entered mindless robot mode while rendering the thing. This is why I shouldn't share stuff on the same day I draw it :)
In the cold light of day it's obvious that the dead woman's body should be about 15 degrees flatter to the floor. That would cause her arms to splay sideways a bit so they don't look like they are supporting her. Boy's face could be softer too, agreed. I wanted to portray someone who had taken a beating or ten, was old beyond his years--ended up making him look too old (common mistake, I know.) I'm going to crack on with the rest of the script but I'll come back and play around with it.
Made changes: corpsier corpse, Dreddier Dredd, more childlike child. Page is much better for it, so thanks!
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7231/7234919808_64973e360b_h_d.jpg)
Wow, that's a massive improvement already! :thumbsup: Very nice looking stuff. I still think your Dredd uniform looks a little off, though. The shoulder pads seem a bit too rounded and closely fitted; I think they need to be a bit more bulky/blocky. Helmet strikes me as overly round in the rear view as well, though it looks good from the front. Maybe it needs a little bit more height? I think in general you've got all Dredd's gear looking very sleek and nicely fitted when it's usually depicted as pretty chunky and substantial , even things like the gloves.
I actually think as far as Judge uniform is concerned, the style is pretty subjective to the artist, as long as the elements are all there (shoulder/elbow, pads, helmet-on Dredd anyway- belt, badge, chain, etc.). And they seem to be here although maybe there could be more detail. (Then again he appears to be a bit out of focus, partly hidden by the flash of gunfire, etc, so maybe it's okay to leave that as it is.)
If find that Dredd rather wide though, but he is sometimes drawn as a giant.
Yep, the uniform design does vary a lot, which makes it a bit difficult to comment, but still, that back view doesn't really read as very Dredd-like to me, and I think a little more bulk to the shoulders at least would give him a more readily identifiable silhouette.
Do the majority of current proffesional artists work digitally, or are there still a lot of traditional methods being used?
Big improvement there. Amazing what some pretty subtle changes can do, those arty types know their trade. As to the re-Dreddified Dredd, reminds me a lot of Siku's version but definitely does the trick.
Quote from: Dunk! on 06 July, 2011, 09:13:35 AM
Really enjoying the pages, Opipop.
You may have mentioned it before, but what program are you creating these in?
Dunk, I recently bought Manga Studio, well worth it IMO. I'll still color with PS. But drawing comics is more satisfying in MS. All the best.
Quote from: PJM on 20 May, 2012, 10:12:08 PM
Do the majority of current proffesional artists work digitally, or are there still a lot of traditional methods being used?
There's certainly a swing towards digital linework using Manga Studio. I share a studio with a number of other artists and we discuss this quite frequently. The problem for me is that I've been trying to keep some measure of consistency with my older Dante work and changing the way I draw it really won't help me do that. I suspect when I'm done with Dante I'll be playing around with different methodologies for a bit.Though I'm very resistant to spending yet MORE time in front of a screen. Paper, pencils ad ink is niiiice.
Quote from: Simon Fraser on 21 May, 2012, 01:55:58 AM
Quote from: PJM on 20 May, 2012, 10:12:08 PM
Do the majority of current proffesional artists work digitally, or are there still a lot of traditional methods being used?
I'm very resistant to spending yet MORE time in front of a screen. Paper, pencils ad ink is niiiice.
Wacom brought out the Inkling last year, it records your work as you create it in a sketchbook. It means an instant digital version in vector format and the actual pencil drawing exist simultaneously. I thought it would free me up a bit from being in the studio and at the screen so much. I could be around my family when sketching for example, in the garden or whatever and / or sell a landscape drawing straight away without waiting to make a digital record of it. I thought of
comic artists at conventions and how handy that might be for some of the better sketches made on the day. I bought the Inkling but it never came, I eventually lost the rag with Wacom's crappy comms and managed to get my money back. 3 months I think I waited...BUT!...it's still an interesting device for artists. Dave Gibbons was sent one and I think planned to offer a critique at some point. I wrote about the Inkling on 31st Aug 2011 here...http://wineink.blogspot.com/
Firstly: apologies for going off topic.
I played with the inkling and wasn't impressed. I found it wasn't sensitive enough or fast enough to pick up much of my scribbly sketches. Plus it was an awkward device with too much setting up required (ok, not much, but still).
It has a niche, it turns out: tattoo artists - I was told it sells really well in this market.
(http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2012/142/b/7/judge_dredd___cycle_of_violence_page_1_by_allistermac-d4zacdz.jpg)
My latest version of page 1 above. I think that all the good advice has helped to make the page a lot stronger than my first attempt.
Quote from: pauljholden on 21 May, 2012, 08:43:45 AM
Firstly: apologies for going off topic.
I played with the inkling and wasn't impressed. I found it wasn't sensitive enough or fast enough to pick up much of my scribbly sketches. Plus it was an awkward device with too much setting up required (ok, not much, but still).
It has a niche, it turns out: tattoo artists - I was told it sells really well in this market.
Just what this lonely heart needed to hear, thanks. I dodged a bullet.
Heres my attempt at the Cycle Of Violence Script, I do plan to Ink and maybe colour this at some point. Any feedback would be great.
http://mikemcgeecomicart.wordpress.com/2012/05/21/judge-dredd-samples/ (http://mikemcgeecomicart.wordpress.com/2012/05/21/judge-dredd-samples/)
Thanks
Quote from: mogga1981 on 21 May, 2012, 07:08:55 PM
Heres my attempt at the Cycle Of Violence Script, I do plan to Ink and maybe colour this at some point. Any feedback would be great.
http://mikemcgeecomicart.wordpress.com/2012/05/21/judge-dredd-samples/ (http://mikemcgeecomicart.wordpress.com/2012/05/21/judge-dredd-samples/)
It looks good, I eagerly await seeing an inked version. However, before you get the brushes out you might want to check the visual references I link to in the first post on this thread - there are a few good shots of the Academy of Law and I think there are some for the older Lawgiver (the early part of the story is a flashback so Dredd wouldn't be using a modern design). Just a couple of quick tweaks but it might be worth it.
I'm feeling a little fatigued over this particular script - entirely my own fault- I can't imagine how Matt feels.
On panel 1 perspective on the figure is way off base.
Panel 2: the perspective here as the effect of making it look like the SIMS (and you have a big directional tangent - http://schweizercomics.tumblr.com/post/11966164633/the-schweizer-guide-to-spotting-tangents - running from dredd's leg, down to the sofa on the page - they're all in a single line) (incidentally, this is exactly the same angle as the previous panel )
Panel 3 is a bit contrary to the script, here the kid looks scared.
Overall the backgrounds here look very spartan. I like the chunky dredd - and, I'm sure some of the x-forces members of the board, will applaud dredd's double handed grip.
-pj
Panel 4 - why are the dad and the kid looking at totally different things?
Thanks for the feedback, I can see what you mean about it looking like the Sims, never thought of it like that before and also the line down from Dredds leg through the sofa. Ill have a look at these problems and the other things you mentioned and give it a tweek.
Quote from: Emperor on 21 May, 2012, 07:47:56 PM
Quote from: mogga1981 on 21 May, 2012, 07:08:55 PM
Heres my attempt at the Cycle Of Violence Script, I do plan to Ink and maybe colour this at some point. Any feedback would be great.
http://mikemcgeecomicart.wordpress.com/2012/05/21/judge-dredd-samples/ (http://mikemcgeecomicart.wordpress.com/2012/05/21/judge-dredd-samples/)
It looks good, I eagerly await seeing an inked version. However, before you get the brushes out you might want to check the visual references I link to in the first post on this thread - there are a few good shots of the Academy of Law and I think there are some for the older Lawgiver (the early part of the story is a flashback so Dredd wouldn't be using a modern design). Just a couple of quick tweaks but it might be worth it.
Thanks, Ill give the reference a look and make some amendments.
Some general points on mogga1981's version...
I like the weight and heft of the characters, they look like they inhabit space, Dredd himself looks threatening. I'm not entirely convinced by the spaces around them though. Is that a living room? It's a bit isometric/diagrammatic, as PJ pointed out. Watch where you put your floor lines, they often seem too high.
A pet peeve of mine is the teeth bared expression, you use it a LOT. In real life people almost never do that, there are so many interesting human facial expressions you could go for, this one might as well be a rubber stamp with the word 'ANGRY' written on it. Try acting out the scene in front of a mirror, try and feel what each character is feeling. I guarantee that you will see something more interesting than this.
Your panel compositions are often too tight, you are fighting for space, cramping the action instead of allowing the scene to breath. Be wary of excessive cropping, it suggest lack of planning.
Work on your figure drawing more ( I can say that to just about everyone, including myself ) your figures are a bit dummy-like, you need to be thinking about posture, the dynamics of weight, then adding all the Judge clobber. It can be very difficult to make that uniform look dynamic but it gives you lots of ellipses and curves to give it all a sense of mass and help you with foreshortening.
You are doing a lot of things right, but I think you need to get on and draw a LOT of actual comics to shake out some of your bad habits and get some fluidity into the drawing. Talk to the Zarjaz people, or write and draw your own webcomic . Keeping a regular schedule on a web comic can excellent professional training.
Thanks for the advice, its good to get this kind of feedback. Im going to back and revise the pages and try and incorporate the advice as best I can.
Quote from: mogga1981 on 22 May, 2012, 09:16:49 AM
Thanks for the advice, its good to get this kind of feedback. Im going to back and revise the pages and try and incorporate the advice as best I can.
Hi As a reader rather than a creator i always think the Academy of Law looks better from ground level the same
with the city it just seems more oppressive apart from that i do like the majority of the other pages :)
(http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/AcidMoose/JudgeDreddpage2.jpg)
(http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/AcidMoose/Judgedreddpage3.jpg)
Awesome Nick!
Cheers dude!
that looks great nick
Like the shot down the toilet bowl Nick
Gonna have to have a go at this
Chi
(http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2012/159/5/3/judge_dredd___cycle_of_violence_page_2_by_allistermac-d4zaez9.jpg)
Judge Dredd - Cycle Of Violence: Revised Page 2
Work and other commitments have conspired to keep me away from my drawing for too long. I have managed to make some changes to the second page of my submission. The crits and encouragement on this forum have been a great help to me and my submission will be all the better for it.
PJ noticed I was using a lot of mid shots and suggested I try coming at some of the panels from a different angle. This led me to try the 4th panel from inside the toilet, I see that Nick took the same approach on his version. I'm not sure if what is going on is obvious enough in my attempt.
Once again, any feedback is welcomed and I'll try and get the rest of the pages revised and up here before too long.
Heya Allister, I think you are right about the toilet bowl scene. It is quite difficult to tell what is going on. My version is more descriptive of what is going on. That being said (and at the risk of sounding weird) toilet bowls aren't actually that big. This are only big enough for you to sit on so from this view there is actually very little negative space in which to fit the 2 antagonists drowning Klein. While I think that the view we chose is the most unique I have seen, I am not sure that it is visually viable.
Also, in the last frame I don't think that you got the perspective quite right. The left arm of the left assailant doesn't seem to be attached and feels really awkward. He also seems to big compared to Klein. The distance between them would only be about a metre or so, so Klein wouldn't be that much smaller. I know that this will be tough to correct as Klein barely fits in the frame as it is.
On a lighter note though, I think that you nailed the perspective on the Academy of Law building and I love the design for the desks in panel three, really elegant man!
All in all I think that you have alot of talent and you should keep at it!
Sorry if I sound a bit harsh in my criticism. I am only trying to give the kind of feedback that I would like to recieve.
Nick
Hi Nick,
Thanks for the feedback, that last panel was still bugging me which is a sure sign that something's not quite right. It's always good to get another persons opinion to get things moving in the right direction. I'm pretty happy with the way the academy of law panel turned out, it's a vast improvement on my first attempt.
That toilet bowl scene is a tricky one, I like the idea of the shot from inside the bowl looking up but it is almost impossible to pull off without altering the dimensions of the toilet to accommodate the action. When I first visited America I noticed their toilet designs were different and contained a lot more water than their UK counterparts, which makes head dunking possible over there. I've been trying to think of a movie with a scene shot from that perspective that I can hunt out for reference but I've not had any joy yet. I'm sure I've seen it somewhere before. Anyway, thanks for the advice.
Alister, I think Sin City has the kind of toilet bowl shot you're talking about
Here's my attempt, I'm still not certain if i intend to ink it or not:
http://kevweldon.tumblr.com/post/24970152664/cycleofviolence
I look forward to whatever critiques/advice you guys can give me.
It may just be me, but the title of your blog is enough for me to think "is this guy really serious about wanting to work in the comic industry"?
This is a job, potty mouth is one thing in the body of a blog post or when talking to other creators but it's another thing when it's in giant letters and hanging over the front page of your portfolio.
-pj
That's not my actual portfolio but rather my personal blog. I'm still putting my online portfolio together.
Well, my point was the giant curse word in the title of a site where you're inviting people to come look at the art - I mean no criticism of you personally.
Up to you, but If I had two identical quality portofolios and googled the artists, the one with the big swear word in the blog title isn't the one I'd be contacting.
-pj
(I have faced a similar problem in the past, there comes a point where, in order to have a job in the industry, you forfeit the right to a "personal" blog, all your opinions will be viewed by people you want to work with and by the readers )
Fair point. I might as well change it, it's not like it's something terribly deep and meaningful to me.
I appreciate the advice and I'm sorry if you thought I was being defensive, I really didn't take it as a personal criticism.
Quote from: pauljholden on 14 June, 2012, 10:32:52 AM
you forfeit the right to a "personal" blog, all your opinions will be viewed by people you want to work with and by the readers )
Good advice.
I feel like an ass. Now! On to the actual art!
Point 1: You've drawn no feet - except on one panel where you've drawn a dead on shot of the sole of a shoe. This is the kind of things editors notice and suggests that you're not overly comfortable with drawing people standing. Grab a sketch book and get out to a coffee shop and do quick sketches of people walking - have a look at what shoes look like on the ground, coming towards you - they're a fascinating shape when you're seeing them in 3d.
page 1 - panels 2 & 5 you've broken the 180 rule (which is a kind of soft rule when it comes to comics, but even so, probably best to stick with it when you can) - I'd be inclined to flip the angle on panel 2 so Dredd is on the right, that'd keep Dredd shooting looking right.
Panel 2 - the goofy background pic, that, in the last page has a different pose - almost a greek chorus. I'm torn, it appeals to the goofball in me, but it seems a like it belongs in a different strip from this one.
I'd like to see this stuff inked, it's hard to get a reading on the backgrounds because they're so light - some texture & heavy blacks in the inking may make a big difference.
Sorry don't have time to go through the rest!
-pj
I never noticed the thing with the feet - weirdly, since that's not actually an element I have trouble drawing and I hate it when artists do that. I shall bear that in mind on the next pass.
Hi Kev,
Welcome to the board. I hope you'll forgive me for going hot on the heels of PJ; I'm pretty much in the same boat as you as I'm only just finishing up on my first 'proper' strip right now. And, in the interests of full disclosure, my submission to 2000AD was squarely and soundly rejected. :) So I'm certainly no expert, and I can't give nearly the same level of expertise as PJ.
That said I have come to attempting to draw comics having worked as a commercial artist for a few years, and there are one or two basics that I feel until you overcome are making the whole thing difficult to appraise as a whole.
1. Consistency. Your approach seems to veer a little from realisticish to cartoonish. The shot of the child particularly in panel 1, page 2 feels a little Muppet Show.
2. Perspective and grounding. A couple of examples where this particularly stands out. Page 2, panel 4 in the cubicle scene - it feels a little like he's being accosted by a dwarf and a giant. Likewise page 3, panel 4 and page 4, panel 5 - those street scenes just don't quite sit right, and the perspective feels very harsh, almost fish-eye in the first. That may be what you're after, but even so, a second look probably wouldn't go amiss.
3. Details. Page 1, panel 5. Dredd's gun barrel seems a bit limp? It's an easy fix, and it would help no end. Also the legs of the Academy of Law seem to hang over or obscure the steps. Would the architect have intended that? Again, I think a second look could help here.
4. Lastly - anatomy - and man, will you get sick of hearing this! But it's eternally true for anybody who wants to produce figurative work, and you'll probably never stop learning (and making mistakes). I think you still need to do quite a lot of work in this area as at the moment it really just doesn't come across as something you're completely comfortable with.
I sincerely hope none of this comes across as unduly harsh. There's clearly ability there, I think you just need a little longer to refine it. Rather than diving into inking I'd be tempted to use what you've got as preliminary boards, and maybe redraw the lot. Really look at each panel, and make sure that what you want to convey is there. Is it the best POV? Is it clear what's happening? And with some of the more difficult poses try and find some reference that's as close as possible to what you've drawn to double-check against. Failing everything else, photograph yourself. If nothing else, it's a useful exercise.
One thing I've found enormously useful is to get in touch with some of the writers/ artists and small-press guys here, and see if you can do some work with them. You get to work closely with the writers and really make sure you're both agreeing on what's been put across. The one or two I've worked with so far are especially shit hot and the story-telling side of things, and will really help you get the best out of panel placement, action and making sure you can get the sodding speech bubbles in. And, you know, you get your work seen in the mean time.
Anyway, whatever you decide, all the very best with your endeavours. Look forward to seeing your stuff develop.
All very useful stuff and exactly the type of critiques I was hoping for! I'm happy to say I don't disagree with any of it either. Frankly these pages were rushed so as to have them ready in time for Kapow so it's not up to my usual standard anyway.
I don't want to sound like I'm picking on you here, but there's a couple of things:
If this isn't your best / most recent work then you're wasting your time and ours.
If you ever use the phrase "this isn't up to my usual standard" during a portfolio review then, I'm afraid any editor will dismiss you as not being very serious about what you're doing (or, possibly a fantasist - the ONE thing they wont do is think "oh this guy probably draws amazingly well, but, for some reason only bought his rushed artwork with him")
If you don't have enough time to do 6 pages to the best of your ability then do 3 - believe me, 3 amazingly good finished pages are worth any amount of half finished pages.
Sorry if this is coming across as ranty - but I've treated this thread as an actual portfolio review so tend to treat every post/poster as such. (though, actually, honestly, if you'd said that to me in an actual portfolio queue I'd've nodded sagely and waited for you to walk away before rolling my eyes and tsking)
Portfolio advice from 2005: http://www.pauljholden.com/blog/2005/02/05/portfolio-2/
There's more in the blog post, but here's a relevant paragraph.
QuoteMake sure the work is complete. If you want to only show pencils, that's fine (although 2000AD would probably prefer pencils and inks – ymmv). If you're showing inks make sure you have pencils of the pages with you (and make sure the pencils you're showing are by a pro – inking over your own stuff or another non-pro [don't like the word amateur] is a bad idea – it's best if it's work the editor is already familiar with). I've seen lots of work where the work is superb but incomplete (pencils half finished or just abandoned – pages with incredibly detailed figures but no backgrounds either pencilled or inked) and trust me on this one, that bloke in the queue who is nowhere near as good as you but has completed pages, and is easy going *will* work before you – if you don't finish your artwork.
Quote from: pauljholden on 14 June, 2012, 04:08:46 PM
If you ever use the phrase "this isn't up to my usual standard" during a portfolio review then, I'm afraid any editor will dismiss you as not being very serious about what you're doing
Yeah, afraid I'd have to agree with that. Certainly at interview I'd want to know why you hadn't brought your best work with you.
Quote from: Kev weldon on 14 June, 2012, 03:37:56 PM
Frankly these pages were rushed so as to have them ready in time for Kapow
That's interesting though. How did it go down? Did you get useful feedback there? Who did you show it to?
Also, just as a general question to nobody in particular; how come almost everybody picks Cycle of Violence? Is it 'cos you get to draw Dredd shooting?
Quote from: Jon on 14 June, 2012, 05:34:09 PMAlso, just as a general question to nobody in particular; how come almost everybody picks Cycle of Violence? Is it 'cos you get to draw Dredd shooting?
I'm guessing it's because the only other Dredd script in the supplied sample scripts zip revolves around a cit's struggles with an intelligent toilet, plus is loaded with nine-panel pages and even has one page with ten. :D Of course, being brave enough to tackle that one might actually serve you well in getting Tharg's attention.
Also, just as a general question to nobody in particular; how come almost everybody picks Cycle of Violence? Is it 'cos you get to draw Dredd shooting?
[/quote]
In my case I decided before opening the PDF's that I'd do the first I opened, weather I liked it or not, because I would have to be able to do the best I could with any script I could be asked to do. Later I realized tons of people had done it and I wished I'd done one of the others.
Quote from: a chosen rider on 14 June, 2012, 05:51:01 PM
Quote from: Jon on 14 June, 2012, 05:34:09 PMAlso, just as a general question to nobody in particular; how come almost everybody picks Cycle of Violence? Is it 'cos you get to draw Dredd shooting?
I'm guessing it's because the only other Dredd script in the supplied sample scripts zip revolves around a cit's struggles with an intelligent toilet, plus is loaded with nine-panel pages and even has one page with ten. :D Of course, being brave enough to tackle that one might actually serve you well in getting Tharg's attention.
Heh, yeah. Though it didn't do me any favours (okay, maybe
I didn't do me any favours).
Quote from: BOODA on 14 June, 2012, 05:51:36 PM
In my case I decided before opening the PDF's that I'd do the first I opened, weather I liked it or not, because I would have to be able to do the best I could with any script I could be asked to do. Later I realized tons of people had done it and I wished I'd done one of the others.
That's a bloody good reason though.
And it was a struggle because...er...I didn't like the story, just me, nothing to do with th writing, perfectly well written....and I kicked myself when I read the one about the robo-shitter. I've considered doing it...maybe over Christmas this year.
Quote from: Jon on 14 June, 2012, 05:34:09 PM
Also, just as a general question to nobody in particular; how come almost everybody picks Cycle of Violence? Is it 'cos you get to draw Dredd shooting?
Paradoxically, I reckon it's the easier story to draw because of the lower panel count, but it's also the better showcase for skills you'll need in an actual comic career as it has quite a few of the generic elements of most comic book scripts that you'll have to master, particularly the callback and the establishing shot which require you to show an aptitude for visual consistency and continuity between panels.
Quote from: pauljholden on 14 June, 2012, 04:08:46 PM
I don't want to sound like I'm picking on you here, but there's a couple of things:
If this isn't your best / most recent work then you're wasting your time and ours.
If you ever use the phrase "this isn't up to my usual standard" during a portfolio review then, I'm afraid any editor will dismiss you as not being very serious about what you're doing (or, possibly a fantasist - the ONE thing they wont do is think "oh this guy probably draws amazingly well, but, for some reason only bought his rushed artwork with him")
If you don't have enough time to do 6 pages to the best of your ability then do 3 - believe me, 3 amazingly good finished pages are worth any amount of half finished pages.
Sorry if this is coming across as ranty - but I've treated this thread as an actual portfolio review so tend to treat every post/poster as such. (though, actually, honestly, if you'd said that to me in an actual portfolio queue I'd've nodded sagely and waited for you to walk away before rolling my eyes and tsking)
Don't worry, I can take it.
You're right though - this was rushed and not ready to be shown, so I shouldn't have shown it. I hadn't considered posting here to be equivalent to a portfolio review but it still does me no good to put substandard work out there with my name on it.
As it happens I didn't get to have my portfolio seen at Kapow, which is probably for the best (as far as the Dredd stuff goes anyway) as it's better to show a complete work at some later date than an incomplete one sooner. I shall take another crack at it.
Hmm
Quote from: Jon on 14 June, 2012, 02:10:29 PMartists and small-press guys here, and see if you can do some work with them. You get to work closely with the writers and really make sure you're both agreeing on what's been put across. The one or two I've worked with so far are especially shit hot and the story-telling side of things, and will really help you get the best out of panel placement, action and making sure you can get the sodding speech bubbles in. And, you know, you get your work seen in the mean time.
Great point. With one email you could begin work on your first published comic, no better way to become a comic artist than to draw comics. Getting paid to do it is another matter - but the creative (and temporal!) demands far out-way financial reward in most cases anyway, so just draw them and do the best you possibly can. One of mine was recently published in Futurequake (21 I think) and I'm now working on a Judge Dredd story for Zarjaz to be published in September, it's a good thing to do.
Also - if you live in a major city you may be able to take class or understudy with an artist. Did I hear David LLoyd is teaching in London ??...A master! He's a brilliant artist....If I lived in London and was just setting in illustration, I'd be over there cleaning brushes.
Quote from: BOODA on 14 June, 2012, 07:27:34 PM
Also - if you live in a major city you may be able to take class or understudy with an artist. Did I hear David LLoyd is teaching in London ??...A master! He's a brilliant artist....If I lived in London and was just setting in illustration, I'd be over there cleaning brushes.
I think he runs a comic group here in Brighton, or at least used to. Could have been a few years ago. I never managed to get to one.
It's called Cartoon County and they meet every week at a pub called the Black Lion. Buy him a Guinnes and you have a friend for life.
Quote from: Danbell on 14 June, 2012, 09:53:44 PM
It's called Cartoon County and they meet every week at a pub called the Black Lion. Buy him a Guinnes and you have a friend for life.
Ah! There you go! Cheers!
The Black Lion on, er, Black Lion Street?
Why do I now feel like moving to Brighton?...& damn I miss Guinness.
*They meet in a pub!...the name even suggests Indian Ink..it sounds like 'The Black Line'.
Hey guys, sorry to ruin the flow of this conversation but I was wondering if anyone could have a look at the version that I did of pages 2 and 3 and give me some critical feedback. It would be much appreciated. Thanks guys!
Judge Dredd - Cycle Of Violence: Revised Page 3
(http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2012/176/d/5/judge_dredd___cycle_of_violence_page_3_by_allistermac-d4zbe77.jpg)
Whenever I get a free moment, which is not very often, I've been working on revisions to my submission. I've almost completed work on the last 3 pages. I have until Thursday to get everything finished, as I fly to Europe for a 2 month trip. Once I touch down in England I'll get my submission in the mail to 2000 AD.
I have made quite a few changes to the page based on the feedback I received and the page is all the better for it, any further feedback or crits are welcomed.
Hello,everyone...i guess i'm a kind of rookie here, just found out this discussion going on for 2 years now,some really good stuff has popped out here so i thought would be my turn to give a shot to be hammered down into a red spot on the floor. I won't bother you guys with more of Cycle of Violence,belive me i did it...twice. Instead ,a first glimpse on my attempt at Tales of Telguuth script. So unleash hell, folks...criticism and feedbacks are more than welcome.
http://brunostahl.deviantart.com/#/d52xywh (http://brunostahl.deviantart.com/#/d52xywh)
A lot of brilliant stuff there, Stahl, particularly the Dredd and Slaine paintings. I dig the sample script - probably the only thing I'd mention is that here and there figures look too staged - in Panel 2 there's seems to be a lack of "movement" of "motion" in the characters. I like it, though!
I love you Bruno, sir - !
First time post on the blog. I was showing my art to Matt Smith at the Kapow con and he asked me to draw some pages from the sample scripts. I chose the first script - Cycle of violence. I recently only just discovered that a LOT of other people had already had a go at this script and posted here so I though I would show you my efforts.
Matt saw the first versions and made some comments that I agreed with and these are a revised version that he has not yet seen. Any critique or comments feel - free to say anything. :)
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7116/7439013492_dc10763c22_b.jpg)
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5038/7439018632_7dd0e7a8c1_b.jpg)
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7132/7439017644_c6519f0830_b.jpg)
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8010/7439016846_86a5678db8_b.jpg)
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8021/7439016004_87166c2760_b.jpg)
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5350/7439015074_164442b33c_b.jpg)
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8008/7439014206_797e6a7464_b.jpg)
You are welcome to browse my Works blog at...
jasonwilson-folio.blogspot.com (http://jasonwilson-folio.blogspot.com)
I have done a few things in art and design but this is a far cry from drawing actual comics so I am not shy about any critique of the comic page examples shown here. Always learning. :)
Cheers!
J
[Emp edit: Fixing link]
Welcome to the board, Jayson.
The pages are really well drawn, nice work.
Jason those kick some arse - ! Really nice colouring as well - lovely amount of detail -
That's looking great. Quite a characterful (and faintly disturbing) take on the lad's late mother in the first panel. I agree with CFM re: the colouring - the colour panels on page 4 in particular are smashing.
Thanks for the kind comments.
The design of the mother - I found the story a little upsetting and disturbing; the violence against children and its effects. So I wanted to add a little ghoulish dark humour by adding an absurb design of the prostitute mother's clothes.
Colours - I think I added too many colour ranges on some of the pages, individual pannels are okay but overall for the full page I should have gone for a more limited muted pallette. I was relatively happy with the first page's colour range overall.
It was a good test and I learned a lot from these six pages, there are lots of elements I know I would improve on for future pages that I did not see at the time.
Those look great, Jason. Love the vibrant colours. You have a really cool drawing style, too. Good luck with this Re-tweaked version. Let us know what Tharg has to say! :D
Quote from: Jayson on 26 June, 2012, 06:19:56 PM
Thanks for the kind comments.
I wanted to add a little ghoulish dark humour by adding an absurb design of the prostitute mother's clothes.
Lovely work Jayson. The colouring is really good. My favourites are the design of the mother in p1. The roof in the final 2 panels of P1, it's great that you got it in in both those frames, claustrophobic and fleshes out the design of the room. I particularly like the panel on p2 in which the cadet takes a beating, the figures and the window, thats a fine frame!
Quote from: BOODA on 26 June, 2012, 07:22:25 PM
Quote from: Jayson on 26 June, 2012, 06:19:56 PM
Thanks for the kind comments.
I wanted to add a little ghoulish dark humour by adding an absurb design of the prostitute mother's clothes.
Lovely work Jayson. The colouring is really good. My favourites are the design of the mother in p1. The roof in the final 2 panels of P1, it's great that you got it in in both those frames, claustrophobic and fleshes out the design of the room. I particularly like the panel on p2 in which the cadet takes a beating, the figures and the window, thats a fine frame!
Thank you.
I tried, however successfully, to give that page a sort of Blade Runner/Ridley Scott feel to the environment by bringing the ceiling down into shot to create a heavy atmosphere by having the reader see the ceiling pressing down onto the characters. I wanted to have light (from above and behind Dredd from the massive window) to make him look vaguely angelic (angel of death) in the eyes of the child, seeing him come in from the light - his hand stretched out to him.
I also wanted the page(s) to look sickly, as if soaked in yellow street lights and smog. The script made me feel queezy so my drawings, which are usually light and airy, came out ugly and murky. :)
I also tried to put in shots of windows into the panels behind Klein, to suggest the world beyond. But the windows are usually viewed through slits, as if the world is something he cannot quite connect with or reach - like a prison.
Quote from: Jayson on 26 June, 2012, 08:07:05 PM
I also tried to put in shots of windows into the panels behind Klein, to suggest the world beyond. But the windows are usually viewed through slits, as if the world is something he cannot quite connect with or reach - like a prison.
Those are all smart choice IMO. In some ways it's a drag that so many artists have worked from the same script but the great thing is that we can see so unique versions of that same story.
Quote from: Adrian Bamforth on 12 December, 2010, 10:36:13 PM
(http://i956.photobucket.com/albums/ae48/adrianbamforth/1Small.jpg)
I only just dug this up, don't recall seeing it before. Love the sense of space in the overhead opening page, very light ...and suggestive of an 'out of body' experience...to my warped mind anyway, like mum is looking back with you.
Quote from: Nick Shepherd on 29 May, 2012, 09:48:32 AM
(http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/AcidMoose/JudgeDreddpage2.jpg)
Like the palpable sense of horror on that boys face in p1...I like also the tight, coiled up Klein, plotting revenge on his bed, sense he's ready to spring. Do you plan to ink it Nick?
Quote from: BOODA on 26 June, 2012, 09:04:01 PM
Quote from: Jayson on 26 June, 2012, 08:07:05 PM
I also tried to put in shots of windows into the panels behind Klein, to suggest the world beyond. But the windows are usually viewed through slits, as if the world is something he cannot quite connect with or reach - like a prison.
Those are all smart choice IMO. In some ways it's a drag that so many artists have worked from the same script but the great thing is that we can see so unique versions of that same story.
I know what you mean. It was very interesting having had drawn my version then stumbling across this thread and seeing everyone else's and how different they are. For example in the page you just posted I like the open space of your stand off - total contrast to what I did but both work in their own ways. :)
Quote from: Jayson on 26 June, 2012, 09:42:07 PM
Quote from: BOODA on 26 June, 2012, 09:04:01 PM
Quote from: Jayson on 26 June, 2012, 08:07:05 PM
I also tried to put in shots of windows into the panels behind Klein, to suggest the world beyond. But the windows are usually viewed through slits, as if the world is something he cannot quite connect with or reach - like a prison.
Those are all smart choice IMO. In some ways it's a drag that so many artists have worked from the same script but the great thing is that we can see so unique versions of that same story.
I know what you mean. It was very interesting having had drawn my version then stumbling across this thread and seeing everyone else's and how different they are. For example in the page you just posted I like the open space of your stand off - total contrast to what I did but both work in their own ways. :)
Just to be clear, I should point out this is the work of Adrian BAmforth...I posted it because I was trawling back over the thread to see what I'd missed and discovered it.
I still don't get how Ade Bamforth hasn't done loads more for 2000ad. I've always liked his work.
Quote from: Nick Shepherd on 23 June, 2012, 12:31:58 PM
Hey guys, sorry to ruin the flow of this conversation but I was wondering if anyone could have a look at the version that I did of pages 2 and 3 and give me some critical feedback. It would be much appreciated. Thanks guys!
I suspect you'll need to ink them first, as that is how Tharg will see them too - it is only possible to give rough feedback on pencilled pages like that.
(http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2012/179/3/b/judge_dredd___cycle_of_violence_page_4_by_allistermac-d4zfeoa.jpg)
(http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2012/179/8/3/judge_dredd___cycle_of_violence_page_5_by_allistermac-d4zfjy3.jpg)
(http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2012/179/9/1/judge_dredd___cycle_of_violence_page_6_by_allistermac-d4zfm5b.jpg)
Judge Dredd - Cycle Of Violence: Revised Pages 4, 5 & 6
I have finally finished revising the last 3 pages of my submission. I'm a lot happier with them now, the feedback on this forum has been a great help and any further comments are welcomed and appreciated.
Great, there are some really nice bits in there. Really nice black to white ratio.
Can I just say, though, the fact that his hand isn't reflecting in the mirror on the last page is really bothering me.
Sorry.
I'll go now. ;)
Quote from: Emperor on 26 June, 2012, 10:01:01 PM
Quote from: Nick Shepherd on 23 June, 2012, 12:31:58 PM
Hey guys, sorry to ruin the flow of this conversation but I was wondering if anyone could have a look at the version that I did of pages 2 and 3 and give me some critical feedback. It would be much appreciated. Thanks guys!
I suspect you'll need to ink them first, as that is how Tharg will see them too - it is only possible to give rough feedback on pencilled pages like that.
Sorry, Nick - like the emperor said, rally need to see full inks to properly comment. I can never judge my own pencils for completeness until they're inked, so don't take that as a bad sign...
Quote from: locustsofdeath! on 25 June, 2012, 04:34:37 AM
A lot of brilliant stuff there, Stahl, particularly the Dredd and Slaine paintings. I dig the sample script - probably the only thing I'd mention is that here and there figures look too staged - in Panel 2 there's seems to be a lack of "movement" of "motion" in the characters. I like it, though!
Cheers!!! Yeah,i know what you mean,it's quite a tricky situation, based on the character's personalities one might try to give'em a specific body expression,like,the muscle barbarian type ought to walk and behave in a very stiff way a sort of opposite from lighter and athletic characters. It's a thin line which once dealing with it in a heavy hand fashion, one can get the lack of movement you said....i'll try to fine tune this in the future.
Now just for the sake of it,my second attempt at Cycle of violence script.
http://brunostahl.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d4rtm6p (http://brunostahl.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d4rtm6p)
page 5
http://brunostahl.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d4vobbm (http://brunostahl.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d4vobbm)
I'm planning to send Tharg the both stories, Cycle of violence and Tales of Telguuth though i still unsure whether is a good idea or not. A huge package might well be unproductive,but i simply can't decide for one of those. Any thoughts?
Quote from: StahlMench on 27 June, 2012, 08:29:24 PM
I'm planning to send Tharg the both stories, Cycle of violence and Tales of Telguuth though i still unsure whether is a good idea or not. A huge package might well be unproductive,but i simply can't decide for one of those. Any thoughts?
I would concentrate on just one. Make it as good as it can be. (I'm a writer rather than an artist but I think this works for both.)
If you get a job out of it, all well and good. If not, you can always send in the second strip, reworked according to feedback.
Hi Guys
I know this script has been done countless times
This is my first attempt at sequentials, and generally drawing anything for many years.
I understand 2000ad prefers finished inks, but I'm not quite there yet.
If anyone is able to provide any crits or advice I would it really helpful and greatly appreciate it.
Many thanks
(http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n575/stoat100/DreddPage1.jpg)
(http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n575/stoat100/DreddP2.jpg)
(http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n575/stoat100/DreddP3.jpg)
(http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n575/stoat100/Dreddp4.jpg)
(http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n575/stoat100/Dreddp5.jpg)
(http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n575/stoat100/dr6.jpg)
Not really qualified to give a more technical critique, but I have to say I really like your characters' faces! :thumbsup: They've got a lot of expression and character, and you've done a great job making Klein look like the same person at different ages.
Thanks for the feedback Chosen rider,
Using freckles may have been cheating somewhat in achieving consistancy!
I thought I'd take a stab at this, I tried to avoid looking through the thread which may have been a mistake but I just wanted to try my own take on it from fresh. I'd do a lot different second time around, some of the anatomy and shots I chose don't quite gel and I'd maybe hand paint and take longer so less had to be done in photoshop as some exteriors around the characters and alterations are a bit severe. It's all learning and I'd love to hear your thoughts and appreciate any help.
(http://i572.photobucket.com/albums/ss168/Graphicnovelstuff/JudgeDreddsamplepage1.jpg)
(http://i572.photobucket.com/albums/ss168/Graphicnovelstuff/Page2Dreddrsamplepage2.jpg)
(http://i572.photobucket.com/albums/ss168/Graphicnovelstuff/Page3dreddsamplepage3.jpg)
(http://i572.photobucket.com/albums/ss168/Graphicnovelstuff/page4dreddsamplepage4.jpg)
(http://i572.photobucket.com/albums/ss168/Graphicnovelstuff/page5dreddrsamplepage5.jpg)
(http://i572.photobucket.com/albums/ss168/Graphicnovelstuff/Page6dreddsamplepage6.jpg)
Some nice greytones throughout here - what I would say is there's an overwhelming amount of odd-scaling like you've put the image in and stretched it or squeezed unnaturally to fit into the panel confines. Looks mighty strange.
Hi. Thank you for the feedback and I agree about the scaling. Some panels I drew larger seperatly to get more clarity or detail in but rookie mistake it seems to conflict with the layouts in places. I maybe able to re jig it somehow.
I've done a bit of playing around with pages with panels I could see that were a bit off. I think I got them all, I hope it looks less squished now.
(http://i572.photobucket.com/albums/ss168/Graphicnovelstuff/JudgeDreddsamplepage15.jpg)
(http://i572.photobucket.com/albums/ss168/Graphicnovelstuff/Page2Dreddrsamplepage25.jpg)
(http://i572.photobucket.com/albums/ss168/Graphicnovelstuff/Page3dreddsamplepage35.jpg)
(http://i572.photobucket.com/albums/ss168/Graphicnovelstuff/page4dreddsamplepage45.jpg)
(http://i572.photobucket.com/albums/ss168/Graphicnovelstuff/page5dreddrsamplepage55.jpg)
(http://i572.photobucket.com/albums/ss168/Graphicnovelstuff/Page6dreddsamplepage65.jpg)
Gah, wrote a big post, and safari on the (old) iPad ate it (wouldn't have happened on my lovely new iPad, but wife and kids took it on holiday with them ...)
You need to fix the stretch characters, I'd suggest redrawing all of it using a lightbox or similar technique, and also introducing a LOT more variety in your composition. Almost every panel has the same focus point (dead centre of the panel) and it looks like you've drawn every panel in isolation without consideration for how a page will read.
Some people can pull that off, but, it's a lot easier to draw a page on a page.
http://www.idrawdigital.com/2009/11/tutorial-composition-and-page-layout/
Thanks Mr Holden I appreciate that you took time to write it out,I hate it when you lose big posts. I can see what youre saying about the compositions. I will study that link and get a bit more variety next attempt. In all honesty I wish id done thos years ago but I never had the confidence in my ability.
Thanks again for all help thus far.
I took what you all said on board and I've come up with this version, I altered the layouts so they are more varied now and I think maybe the only panel where its a little stillted is from the Dredd close up to the mirror reflection panel, thinking maybe the background of the Dredd panel should be all white to help it flow into the sillouette shot and maybe the shadow figure should be a little closer. Not sure.
Please let me know what you think, I appreciate the feedback I've had and I think this version is an improvement due to that.
(http://i572.photobucket.com/albums/ss168/Graphicnovelstuff/JudgeDredd1story.jpg)
(http://i572.photobucket.com/albums/ss168/Graphicnovelstuff/Page2Dreddstory.jpg)
(http://i572.photobucket.com/albums/ss168/Graphicnovelstuff/Page3dreddstory.jpg)
(http://i572.photobucket.com/albums/ss168/Graphicnovelstuff/page4dreddstory.jpg)
(http://i572.photobucket.com/albums/ss168/Graphicnovelstuff/page5dreddstory.jpg)
(http://i572.photobucket.com/albums/ss168/Graphicnovelstuff/Page6dreddstory.jpg)
Thank you
Anybody get any feedback from Tharg lately?
Hi Sparkonaut,
I sent my submission into Tharg at the beginning of July. I'll let you know if and when I get any feedback.
Please do. It would be good to have a trail of feedback on here straight from the Quaxxann's mouth :P
Quote from: Sparkonaut on 05 September, 2012, 09:11:03 PM
Anybody get any feedback from Tharg lately?
Hi Sparkonaut,
Yes, I did. So if you are waiting for a response I have proof the mighty one does personally get back to artists who submit work. I sent a re-worked version of pages posted here, I took on various points by people on this thread. I must say I was surprised it was not a form letter, he went in to detail on what he thought about the pages, a rare thing IMO. But Tharg, he no like.
I'm now working on a Dredd story for Zarjaz to be published in January 2013 (of which a detail can be seen as my avatar here). Good luck with your submission Sparkonaut, make a breakthrough pal!
BTW - I sent various probes out that month of which 2000AD was just one and It yielded plenty. ;)
"You can't always get what you want
But if you try sometimes well you just might find
You get what you need" - The Rolling Stones
Hey Guys!
Decided to have a go at PF. Heres the rough pencils for page one, boy am I outa practice!!
(http://i433.photobucket.com/albums/qq60/markchilcott/pf1.jpg)
Quote from: BOODA on 08 September, 2012, 12:24:48 PM
Quote from: Sparkonaut on 05 September, 2012, 09:11:03 PM
Anybody get any feedback from Tharg lately?
I'm now working on a Dredd story for Zarjaz to be published in January 2013 (of which a detail can be seen as my avatar here). Good luck with your submission Sparkonaut, make a breakthrough pal!
Nice :)
As for me, I'll get back on the horse with a fresh sub one of these fine days.
I like it, Mark. A good ink job over that (minus the distortion of course) will look rather grand, I think.
Thanks, Going to change the last panel, I don't think it works. I like the flow of the rest of the page but that last panel isn't working for me.
I like it Mark. I especially like the passer by in panel 2, something really charming about his shape and design. And Panel 1 really captures the busy street scene.
Well done, hope to see more :)
Dan
Hi Sparkonaut,
I know you were interested in hearing about replies from Tharg about submissions. I sent my submission in at the beginning of July and heard back a few weeks ago.
I'm not up to standard yet but I got some good advice. I need to continue to work on my figure drawing which is too stiff and to layer my inks more, so background detail doesn't overload the panel.
I'm happy he didn't tell me to give up and stick to my day job! As with most creative endeavours it takes a bit of talent and a lot of hard work to get up to standard. I'm going to keep up the practice and with a bit of determination and a lot of drawing I hope to make it one day.
The competitions on this site run by CrazyFoxMachine have been good fun and any excuse to draw is welcomed, I'd recommend the other aspiring artists on here to have a go. Link to this months here: http://forums.2000adonline.com/index.php/topic,37131.0.html (http://forums.2000adonline.com/index.php/topic,37131.0.html)
Thanks, Allistermac. That's good feedback and I think we'll all benefit from it.
Hi All,
I am new to the forums and just wrote a lengthy introduction along with my sample pages for the PF script over on the welcome board - probably should have done it here as this is the submissions thread. That in mind here are my submission pages without the lengthy intro.
I shouldhowever point out that I have included some addtionla panels plus have combined - I think - one of the panels.
The obvious ones are an extra panel on page one actually showing Dredd approach the main character. I have combined the last panel on page 1 with the first panel on page 2 (the boy enters the shot)
I have added additional panels on the internal shots of the PF - where the script states the dor is opening and closing I felt it needed to be highlighted as the reader would generally assume doors were still open when flitting between shots of those outside looking in at the main character and then him having a conversation with the PF.
Anyway your feedback would be greatly appreciated albeit I have already sent these in PRIOR to discovering the forum.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af150/ausven/Page1FinalIDW.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af150/ausven/Page2FinalIDW.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af150/ausven/Page3FinalIDW.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af150/ausven/Page4FinalIDW.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af150/ausven/Page5FinalIDW.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af150/ausven/Page6finalIDW.jpg)
Really really REALLY nice facial expressions here actually, a nice deep scratchy inking style a bit like Si Gurr - solid stuff!
It's good, one of the stronger attempts I've seen. Clear and seems to flow well (at least to my inexpert eyes) and some nice panels and layouts. Strong black and white work too.
I'm not sure I agree 100% about the expressions, Owen, they jar a little here and there for me, but the emotion is, on the whole, effectively conveyed for a strip that demands it.
I also feel like I'm seeing an improvement and a growing in confidence as it progresses, which is always heartening.
I would imagine, from my own limited experience, that the feedback you might get will be to work more on your figure work and maybe faces a little. It veers between cariacature and realism, and some of the "acting" can feel a touch hammy as a result. Some of the more extreme poses could probably benefit from a little more observation (the really low angle on Dredd looking up, for example). I think your Dredd is a little "off" for my taste too, but that's really more a matter of opinion I guess.*
But, on the whole, great! All the very best with your submission.
* I, by no means, offer this from any level of success of expertise, purely opinion. This is close to advice I have received from others and need to take myself.
Yeah it's not bad, plenty to improve I think but watch your details! This lot will have ya' for it - Page 5, panel 1 the eagle is on the wrong shoulder.
Hi Jon,
Thank you for the feedback - much appreciated.
I am pleased that there is indeed evidence of improvement as the pages progress.
It's interesting that you picked up on the faces switching between caricature and realistic. There is an explanation for this (at least I think there is) and that is that some of the facial expressions I am confident in tackling without reference (a mirror) and others not. I think possibly this would explain the differences.
Once again cheers Jon.
Archie - argh!! Nice spot cheers - man what a blooper. ;)
Quote from: Steven Austin on 06 December, 2012, 08:52:56 PM
Archie - argh!! Nice spot cheers - man what a blooper. ;)
I recently re-read many of the progs. I found that same thing in 2000AD, Eagle on the wrong shoulder in one panel, from a pro! and it made it to print!
It's good work, I like the expressions too and the vigor of the line.
Thanks Booda, I'll stop beating myself about the face and head now - cheers. :)
Whoa.
Really well drawn Steven.
I'd agree with the others, it's not 100%, but then you see professional artwork which isn't 100% perfect either.
You should definetly keep aiming to improve, but be proud of what you've achieved as well.
Thanks Pauul, I am and I do. I'll post my completed first page for Cycle of Violence later on this evening and think that there have already been improvements to that which is demonstrated in the PF samples. The proofs in the pudding so I'll see what you guys think.
I really enjoyed your work Steven, I think PF is a really tricky one to draw after giving it a bash myself. All the advice you received will no doubt make it better. Well done... let us know when you get a reply!
So I thought I would give Cycle of Violence another go. Sorry if you guys are sick of seeing this story! I was just really unhappy with my last stab at it so wanted to give it another go. After a long period of self doubt about if I can draw or not I'm slowly building in confidence so hopefully this is a bit better than my last try.
These are just sketchy pencils at the mo, but if anyone has any crits/feedback to offer I would be very grateful.
Thanks very much!
Dan :)
(http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n579/batdanuk/Comic%20Art/COVDarkerpencils.jpg)
Thanks for the kind words Batdan.
I really like your roughs - you can certainly draw.
A couple of things that did stand out to me was:
1. The sofa in panel two looks far to big in comparison to the figures so some scaling may be in order.
2. Dredds hand needs to be bigger and you need to add more foreshortening to the forearm.
I look forward to seeing the page progress.
Cheers buddy.
Here's my attempt at the first page of Cycle of Violence.
I have tried to clean up my line work a bit and also tried to maintain more consistency with the faces - ie not jumping between caricature and realist but rather met somewhere in between.
Feedback would be good.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af150/ausven/CycleofViolencePg1inksA4lores-1.jpg)
Hey Steven,
Thanks for the feedback mate, much appreciated! You are so right about the sofa... its massive! How did I not see that?! Thanks very much I'll make improvements based on your suggestions :)
I think your page is wicked, I prefer this to your PF attempt actually, If you don't mind me saying. The story telling is really clear and I like that you really stuck to the script in terms of angles where many people, myself included, have deviated. (I just couldn't get that last panel right).
Nice one, lets see page 2 and beyond! :)
Really nice page steven, I like the negative detail in the Dredd's shadow on panel 2. I know that kind thing doesn't really make sense but it adds some nice detail. Last panel is great too, proper grimm expression.
My only critism would be that in panel 4 the perps hand is as big as the kids head. I know that can be a stylisic thing, like Joe Madureria or Humberto Ramos would do, but it's not consistant with the other panels.
Great page though, good inking.
I think this and the other pages you posted prove that you're actually Chris Weston, posting from the early Nineties via some kind of temporal anomaly. Whichever one of the greats of yesteryear it was who said you were almost the finished article wasn't far wrong, chief.
I was just about to call Chris Weston on this last one actually! By no means a bad thing, crammed with detail, the angle on the large panel works especially well and the Dreddhead in the final one is a blinder :D
The quality of the drawing is great, but you're not the first person to attempt this page who's committed the cardinal page-layout error of two wides and a tall (http://clintflickerlettering.blogspot.co.uk/2011/07/forgotten-wisdom-part-one-continued.html).
(http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb36/jimcampbell2000/Cycle_MarkUp.jpg)
The letterer could fix this one for you by overlapping the balloons across the gutter of panels four and five, but ideally you should be able to read the page without the balloons and still have a clear idea of both the story and the order in which the panels should be read...
Cheers!
Jim
Déjà vu Jim? Look at page 2 of this thread for my version of this error.
Thank you all for the feedback.
Chris Weston, wow now there's a compliment - not there yet but someone I aspire to along with Bolland, Davis, Dillon and Gibbons.
Jim, thank you for the feedback - live and learn - didn't realise it was a cardnial error (guess it could have been worse - a cardinal sin comes to mind), I thought it was just frowned upon but also thought I would get away with working the panels this way as my logic suggested that the eye would be led by the fact that the two panels both had borders and the last didn't - my eye went that way - but (haha) I guess that's because I knew it should. Anyway based upon your critique I have reworked panels 4 and 5, I think it works now?
Also Daniel, thanks for the spot with the hand, I've made the kids head bigger, albeit you can't actually see the hand now anyway since I narrowed the panel but it does look more in proportion against the fathers head now - cheers mate.
And Sauchie - the great of yesteryear is actually still going strong, he was just also around yesteryear. ;)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af150/ausven/CycleofViolencePg1inksA42lores.jpg)
What a difference, Six Million Dollar Man! I've never seen a better advertisement for taking advice on board; that page doesn't just flow better, it looks so much more accomplished too. That reminds me of the prog where Tharg told the story of losing an episode of City of the Damned down the back of the couch and asking Steve Dillon to redraw the whole thing - and his second attempt (produced at break-neck speed) looked even better than the first.
It " reads" perfectly now -you know what's going on even without those pesky word balloons to explain anything. Lovely, lovely stuff Steven Austin.
Quote from: Steven Austin on 09 December, 2012, 01:18:35 AM
Anyway based upon your critique I have reworked panels 4 and 5, I think it works now?
Much,
much better. Nice work!
Cheers
Jim
Great!! Thank you chaps. :)
Ok so I'm working on page two and decided to tackle the most difficult panel (For me) first - the Academy of Law establishing shot.
Fed up with trawling through what past issues I have left for reference I decided to hit Google - maaan there is nothing, even the wikipedia page doesn't have a picture. I did eventually find an old image on Comic Vine and thought it may be useful for anyone else so here it is
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af150/ausven/AcademyofLaw.jpg)
And while I'm at it here's the panel I pulled together - Is this an acceptable version of the Academy do you think, I don't 'think' I've strayed too far from the original.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af150/ausven/AcademyofLawfinal.jpg)
Need to work on the lettering - 'I know'.
Pretty lovely all the same, but I agree that the lettering is a little flat - why not just draw it?
Also - in terms of recent halls of justice images, you can't go wrong with this Chris Weston one, surely!
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-PmzMxDRu8vc/T3DZXg9tP1I/AAAAAAAAD2Q/sZlA7FKM69g/s1600/2000ad%2BGrand%2BHall%2BJustice%2BCover.jpg)
Thanks for the feedback - yeah still a work in progress but i'll get there - I hate lettering, but think in this case I may well have a bash.
With regards to the Halls of Justice image - that's awesome. However its reference to the Academy of Law I've being seeking. ;)
Quote from: Steven Austin on 12 December, 2012, 10:59:09 AM
Thanks for the feedback - yeah still a work in progress but i'll get there - I hate lettering, but think in this case I may well have a bash.
Something like this, I'd agree it's definitely better to just draw it. Even on a strip I was drawing and lettering myself, I'd treat text like this as part of the art rather than the lettering.
Cheers!
Jim
Hi all, can I just ask a question of the pros?
Most of the samples I've seen on this topic show the images leading from right to left - as in boy and dad to the left in the second panel, Dredd on the right.
This leads to the shooting shot of Dredd coming from right to left.
I've always been led to believe that as far as possible the action should lead to the bottom right hand panel as it were to encourage a page turn.
So, shouldn't the positions be reversed to Dredd is essentially shooting off the page rather than into the joining panel on the left?
Or have I been mislead?
Although tailored to film and video, this link might go some way to explaing why he should be looking into the page and not out of it.
http://www.mediacollege.com/video/editing/transition/reverse-cut.html
Quote from: Steven Austin on 12 December, 2012, 10:59:09 AM
With regards to the Halls of Justice image - that's awesome. However its reference to the Academy of Law I've being seeking. ;)
D'oh! Apologies my brain was very much in morning mode. :P
Yeah, I do agree Jim, i'll sharpen m' pencil and get to it!!
CFM - Academy of Law and Halls of Justice aren't a million miles away from one another, an easy mistake to make - especially with a bed head on.
Quote from: Alex on 12 December, 2012, 12:01:57 PM
Although tailored to film and video, this link might go some way to explaing why he should be looking into the page and not out of it.
http://www.mediacollege.com/video/editing/transition/reverse-cut.html
sorry I didn't explain myself.
I don't mean that there should be a reverse shot of Dredd on last panel, I meant that should the man and son be on the right in the establishing shot with Dredd on the left so that on the last panel Dredd is shooting off the page not into it?
Quote from: simontm on 13 December, 2012, 10:25:36 AM
I don't mean that there should be a reverse shot of Dredd on last panel, I meant that should the man and son be on the right in the establishing shot with Dredd on the left so that on the last panel Dredd is shooting off the page not into it?
Generally speaking, everyone should look inwards towards an imaginary centre-line down the middle of the page in every panel.* There is a school of thought that says the final panel should have someone looking in the direction of the "page out", but I think it would impact the storytelling here and look distinctly like Dredd was firing away from the perp...
Cheers
Jim
*As with all such 'rules', if it damages the storytelling, ignore it.
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 13 December, 2012, 10:38:57 AM
Quote from: simontm on 13 December, 2012, 10:25:36 AM
I don't mean that there should be a reverse shot of Dredd on last panel, I meant that should the man and son be on the right in the establishing shot with Dredd on the left so that on the last panel Dredd is shooting off the page not into it?
Generally speaking, everyone should look inwards towards an imaginary centre-line down the middle of the page in every panel.* There is a school of thought that says the final panel should have someone looking in the direction of the "page out", but I think it would impact the storytelling here and look distinctly like Dredd was firing away from the perp...
Cheers
Jim
*As with all such 'rules', if it damages the storytelling, ignore it.
Ah, didn't know that one. Always read about arrow flows and the divine ratio.
Cheers
Ok played with the lettering, tried to draw something a little more exuberant but totally cocked it up so went with a basic style.
Got rid of that black mass on the left of the last image I posted to open the image up a tad plus sorted the background by working into the cityscape more by tightening it up and adding some shading.
Better?
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af150/ausven/AcademyofLawwithVLcopy_zps951192a7.jpg)
Well with crimbo out of the way and a few days away from the 9 to 5 I finally managed to get my ass in gear and finish page 2 of the Cycle of Death script, been sitting there pencilled for weeks.
Be good to hear your thoughts!! :)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af150/ausven/finalpage2copy2000adonline_zpsc09a26b1.jpg)
That's just awesome. Good work!
Thanks Sparko', much appreciated.
Re: Sorrow Hill - preview submissions
Dear Good People at 2000ad,
I have prepared a 5-page sequential art submission for review as per your submission guidelines, however I cannot find a postal address to send my pages to, therefore could you kindly assist in providing one ? If not, I could attend one of the convensions in the north of England, are you schedualed to attend any ?
In the mean time here is the first page from The Sorrow Hill short in its full artifial digitialised glory (I'm an art hard-bound traditionalist by nature).
Kind regards
Mr KS Bell
(http://i1289.photobucket.com/albums/b517/kable1001/SH1txt_zps81904579.jpg)
Couple of quick procedural comments:
1) Tharg very rarely employs separate inkers, so he likes to see inked pages, rather than just pencils.
2) You will never be asked to letter your own pages, so don't letter your submissions. In fact, the Mighty One will want to see how your storytelling works without lettering.
QuoteI cannot find a postal address to send my pages to
From the sidebar of the 'Contact Us' page:
QuoteYou should address it to the Submissions Editor, 2000 AD, Riverside House, Osney Mead, Oxford OX2 0ES.
Good luck!
Jim
Welcome to the board, Kable1001.
Beautiful artwork, but Jim is right of course, it needs to be inked and the lettering is unnecessary.
You're obviously very talented, though.
I'd love to see more of your work.
Jim,
I'm glad I didn't find the address or else I would have wrongly sent in pencilled pages for review - so thanks for the 'heads up' on the inked work only advice. I'll look forward to utilising my W&N brushes when I have some spare time (we all know inking is a totally different craft with its own rules compared to pencilling;)). On the other note, the text was applied with PS' so all is not lost.
Again, Many Thanks
Paaul,
Very kind of you to say - I will be sure drop in some sketches when I get use to navigating these fine boards
- All the best
kable1001 Jim is right and he and other fine chaps around had spoken about it before cos,surprisingly,nearly everyone tends to lettering their submission pages. That's an ultimate no-no. I've been doing the portifolio review's circuit for a while and upon these third degrees contact with The Mighty Tharg i know that storytelling is going to be,if not the most important, one of the critical points noticed by the Almighty. The reading must be fluid and clear and ALWAYS moving onwards,between draw cool images that move the story to nowhere only for the sake of it and something simpler that pass the message to the reader easily,stick to the last option. Seems that most of the guys do feel insecure about the clarity of the stories and then opt by lettering it all to tell the story. If you're feeling insecure on the story's clarity there is a huge chance that Tharg might notice such unclarity instantly. Is preferable to rework the whole thing thinking on carefully what elements are going to help you out on telling your story and the ones that will not.Once you get famous you can do what the Image founders did on their Marvel time..." to the hell with this storytelling thang, gotta draw some cool shit cos the kids love it"....until there,think on your storytelling and make it a strong point of your art which is promising :)
Lovely work Mr Bell,
As a fellow artist trying to break into the world of 2000AD I have also had to expand my experience into the realms of inking, something prior to preparing submissions for 2000AD I hadn't explored to any real degree - good luck!!
Also, and it's a moot point now I guess, but there are quite a lot of typos in your lettering. I'd definitely be careful about that.
Sorry...
Hi all,
Just finished the pencils for page 3 of the Cycle of Violence - after seeing Mr Bells lovely pencil work it occurred to me that perhaps like myself you like to see pencilled pages :D
As usual ANY feedback will be well received.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af150/ausven/Page3pencilsFB_zps8c8f6605.jpg)
I'm giving the 'Generation Killer' script a go and rolled out page 1's pencils today. This time I leaned in favour of more realistic anatomy instead of the highly stylized approach I took with my last attempt. Although, I thought I'd keep the faces more stylized. What do you guys think?
I noticed that Henry Flint started out pretty stylized (even cartoony) on Dredd before gradually going more and more realistic. The Dredd movie prequel is quite far removed from his Nemesis and 90's Dredd strips.
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8328/8378194878_74ed88620e_b.jpg)
Reminds me slightly of Nick Dyers work. Good stuff.
Ah man lovely work dude. I really like this style, its one that i've always wanted to achieve but never managed it - somewhere between realist and as you say more cartoony, don't lean any closer to realist mate the styles great as it is.
Great poses and some nice depth - especially in the opening panel.
There's an air of Ian Gibson in there, think its in the faces, especially in the face of the female in panel 2.
One criticism for you, the seated figure in panel 4 feels a bit awkward, I think possibly his torso is a little flat as is his right hand - the angles wrong I think.
Lovely work man.
Quote from: Steven Austin on 13 January, 2013, 12:34:28 PM
Hi all,
Just finished the pencils for page 3 of the Cycle of Violence - after seeing Mr Bells lovely pencil work it occurred to me that perhaps like myself you like to see pencilled pages :D
As usual ANY feedback will be well received.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af150/ausven/Page3pencilsFB_zps8c8f6605.jpg)
I love the fatty in panel four. Seems so... real.
Quote from: The Enigmatic Dr X on 13 January, 2013, 10:17:40 PM
Quote from: Steven Austin on 13 January, 2013, 12:34:28 PM
Hi all,
Just finished the pencils for page 3 of the Cycle of Violence - after seeing Mr Bells lovely pencil work it occurred to me that perhaps like myself you like to see pencilled pages :D
As usual ANY feedback will be well received.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af150/ausven/Page3pencilsFB_zps8c8f6605.jpg)
I love the fatty in panel four. Seems so... real.
I just googled - 'fatty', loads of reference material out there!! ;)
Thanks man.
QuoteReminds me slightly of Nick Dyers work. Good stuff.
This makes my night. Thanks for the positive comments guys.
Quote from: Steven Austin on 13 January, 2013, 09:52:57 PM
One criticism for you, the seated figure in panel 4 feels a bit awkward, I think possibly his torso is a little flat as is his right hand - the angles wrong I think.
You're right there, Steven. I'll get on there before inking. I'm also thinking of revising their clothes. I know McMahon era meg gear is canon, but I have seen some of the newer artists just have everyone dress casually and it really works.
The dress code is a tricky one - I guess mix it up a bit.
After a week of dipping in and out of this I have managed to ink page 3 of Cycle of Violence - thought i'd share.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af150/ausven/Page3CycleofViolencefinalpagefb_zps8128ff78.jpg)
Love the inks.
Very well done.
Thanks Pauul, much appreciated. :)
Nice work Steven and Sparkonaut. Cracking attempts!
Thank you Darren, really appreciate it.
I'm hoping Tharg will agree.
Nice PF gag...
Very cool, dude. I like how you use white and black in for effect (panel 4). How are you inking this? Traditional or using software?
Quote from: Jon on 20 January, 2013, 12:06:54 PM
Nice PF gag...
Haha thanks mate, glad you spotted it!! :D
Quote from: Sparkonaut on 20 January, 2013, 12:26:00 PM
Very cool, dude. I like how you use white and black in for effect (panel 4). How are you inking this? Traditional or using software?
Thank you - 1st page was traditional brush and ink, 2nd and third i've inked in Photoshop using my trusty A5 Wacom.
Quote from: Sparkonaut on 20 January, 2013, 12:26:00 PM
Very cool, dude. I like how you use white and black in for effect (panel 4). How are you inking this? Traditional or using software?
Actually come to think of it the 2nd page was penciled in Photoshop too - thought i'd experiment with a bit of Bolland stylee but decided I didn't enjoy it so much so switched back to traditional pencils for page 3.
Another one.
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8327/8405924524_16e9a9ee4f_b.jpg)
Those are mighty beautiful roughs Mr 'naut!
Oooh Sparko, lovely lovely work man, very well done, can't wait to see the inked up.
Quote from: Steven Austin on 23 January, 2013, 12:21:53 AM
Oooh Sparko, lovely lovely work man, very well done, can't wait to see the inked up.
Cheers, Steven. Are you going to London Super Con btw?
Quote from: Sparkonaut on 23 January, 2013, 11:14:58 AM
Quote from: Steven Austin on 23 January, 2013, 12:21:53 AM
Oooh Sparko, lovely lovely work man, very well done, can't wait to see the inked up.
Cheers, Steven. Are you going to London Super Con btw?
I had every intention of going but have now been roped into working the whole weekend so no, I won't be :(
I thought I was going till yesterday :/ Oh well, will have to mission up country to get to see Tharg at a con. On the other hand, it would be nice to get out of London!
Here's page 4 pf the Cycle of Violence script.
Let me know your thoughts!!
:D(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af150/ausven/CoVpage4inkedA4copy_zps3258c625.jpg)
Like it Steve, reminds me of Liam Sharp when he was doin PJ Maybe way back.
Keeps getting better and better, Steven. Your inking is more refined now and I especially like the last panel with the 'white out' rain.
love the snarly klein really retro!
Quote from: Sparkonaut on 02 February, 2013, 10:29:04 AM
Keeps getting better and better, Steven. Your inking is more refined now and I especially like the last panel with the 'white out' rain.
Thanks buddy - although woke up this morning and decided the rain was too linear and solid so have disrupted it a tad and thrown in some lightning in order to add a sinister edge to the shot.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af150/ausven/CoVpage4inkedA4copy_zps7e5ae81b.jpg)
Quote from: judda fett on 02 February, 2013, 02:51:30 AM
Like it Steve, reminds me of Liam Sharp when he was doin PJ Maybe way back.
Thanks Judda, pleased you like it and appreciate the comment. :)
That looks frickin awesome.
Thanks Pauul mate!!
Okey dokey - here is page five of my Cycle of Violence submission pieces.
As always feedback is both encouraged and welcomed!!
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af150/ausven/CoVPage5inksfinal_zps2e575718.jpg)
Hey Steven! Looks really grand. Really good panel placement and bubble space allocation. The only thing that I'd change would be to give JD more perspective in the last panel. Right now he looks like he's being viewed on a level plane, whereas it should be from a raised perspective. You might get away with adjusting his legs and the angle of his feet on the floor.
Apart from that, looking brill! That's you done then?
Thanks for the feedback Sparky, yeah I wasn't sure about the last panel, hence putting it up for feedback, pleased I got some prior to sending it off. The angle is slightly raised but not as extreme as on page 1, thought some variety would be good but following your feedback will have another bash.
Here's the final page!!
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af150/ausven/CoVPage6inksFB_zps72947cdf.jpg)
By the way I added an additonal panel, the close up of Klein looking in the mirror is additional as I felt there should be a transition between the mood of how he was feeling looking into the mirror following Dredd's comment that he ain't no judge and the realisation that he looks like his father - and of that when he flips!!
That final pic of Dredd is sweet!
I'm no expert but i wouldn't add any panels, just stick to the brief for a submission plus u don't wanna upset any writers (sensitive types that they are!)
Cheers
Chi
Quote from: El Chivo on 27 February, 2013, 07:16:01 PM
That final pic of Dredd is sweet!
I'm no expert but i wouldn't add any panels, just stick to the brief for a submission plus u don't wanna upset any writers (sensitive types that they are!)
Cheers
Chi
Thanks for the feedback Mr Chivo - taken on board. ;)
That looks lovely, Steven. I especially love the shadows in the last few panels. I'm divided on the extra panel thing. It works, but then, as El Chivo said, they want to know if you can follow a brief. all the same I think it's sure to impress :D
Thanks Sparko - just redrawing the last panel on page five following your feedback, the more I looked at it the more I agree with you and also decided I wasn't happy with the image generally.
Regarding the additional panel perhaps one of the 2000AD crew could elaborate on whether or not I would be marked down for adding an additional panel IF it works.
My last submission, 'PF' was declined but the feedback from Mr Smith was that the story telling and panel layout were good, my downfall was the unrefined inks - and I added around 5 panels to that one, but did explain this in my cover letter, so really not sure.
Ok so I have redrawn the final panel on page five - as SParky pointed out the original wasn't high enough with regards to angle and also I generally became less and less happy with it.
So here's the amended version.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af150/ausven/Page5final2_zpsfd1c55e5.jpg)
Everything about that last panel works better, Steve; the composition especially, but even the balance of tones seems more assured. This is fascinating to watch - thanks for posting.
Quote from: sauchie on 05 March, 2013, 06:56:19 AM
Everything about that last panel works better, Steve; the composition especially, but even the balance of tones seems more assured. This is fascinating to watch - thanks for posting.
That's great Sauchie, thank you for the feedback, very easy to become lost in the image and not subjective so your feedback is invaluable.
That said I have revisited this image today and am still happy with it which is a good sign, the last attempt at this particular panel, I left, came back and straight felt stirrings of discontentment - Sparkys comments just confirmed what I had already felt.
Thanks again.
Greetings! I was ment to show these Sorrow Hill pages at the LSCC portfolio review but because of the conventions mixup I wasn't able to. So before putting these in snail mail to 2000AD offices I thought I'd post them here. Comments and critique all welcome. Cheers!
(http://i798.photobucket.com/albums/yy268/69charmz/SorrowHill/shbw1.jpg)
(http://i798.photobucket.com/albums/yy268/69charmz/SorrowHill/shn1.jpg)
(http://i798.photobucket.com/albums/yy268/69charmz/SorrowHill/shbw2.jpg)
(http://i798.photobucket.com/albums/yy268/69charmz/SorrowHill/shn2.jpg)
(http://i798.photobucket.com/albums/yy268/69charmz/SorrowHill/shbw3.jpg)
(http://i798.photobucket.com/albums/yy268/69charmz/SorrowHill/shn3.jpg)
(http://i798.photobucket.com/albums/yy268/69charmz/SorrowHill/shbw4.jpg)
(http://i798.photobucket.com/albums/yy268/69charmz/SorrowHill/shn4.jpg)
(http://i798.photobucket.com/albums/yy268/69charmz/SorrowHill/shbw5.jpg)
(http://i798.photobucket.com/albums/yy268/69charmz/SorrowHill/shn5.jpg)
(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7258534/Screen%20shot%202013-03-15%20at%2009.51.38.png)
great!
Lynchtastic as always - your strong shadows are breathtaking but blimey would that be a bit of 'mare to colour. Works perfectly in b & w though.
Has anyone tried the script "A tree grows in Elia Kazan"?Its the one sent to me,its challenging to say the least!
Quick question.....when drawing a page do I write in the sound effects or does the letterer add them?
Clever page design JT Pegg.
Quote from: GoldJack on 18 May, 2013, 07:27:21 PM
Quick question.....when drawing a page do I write in the sound effects or does the letterer add them?
Depends on how good your s/fx are. As a rule: leave em out. (If you get a gig then you can slowly drop them in...)
Thanks just putting prep work in for the submission.
Seen some great work on this thread been going through it all day.So jealous but it hasnt been updated in a few days so ill revive it by asking how much prep work do you guys usually do before getting down to do the final artwork?Im asking because im prepping my sample script and sketched out some of the major characters.Also whos interpretation of mega city one is yourvfavourite?
Hello there, everyone:)
I've decided to post my recent attempt at a Judge Dredd sample script ('Gun Runner'). It is my first ever attempt at a Dredd script.
Just wanted to show it around and get as many different POVs/crits on it as I can:
(http://static.squarespace.com/static/5188790be4b0851a91a0f52e/518bc1a3e4b04c0065d8ac86/51a69dc2e4b02ab2a15f678b/1369873861568/JD1fs.jpg)
(http://static.squarespace.com/static/5188790be4b0851a91a0f52e/518bc1a3e4b04c0065d8ac86/51a69dd9e4b01abd0575a5e1/1369873885120/JD2fs%20copy.jpg)
(http://static.squarespace.com/static/5188790be4b0851a91a0f52e/518bc1a3e4b04c0065d8ac86/51a69de7e4b0826c31b2641c/1369873902548/JD3fs%20copy.jpg)
(http://static.squarespace.com/static/5188790be4b0851a91a0f52e/518bc1a3e4b04c0065d8ac86/51a69dfae4b0f071f28d2d56/1369873918008/JD4fs%20copy.jpg)
(http://static.squarespace.com/static/5188790be4b0851a91a0f52e/518bc1a3e4b04c0065d8ac86/51a69e0ae4b0826c31b26443/1369873935400/JD5fs%20copy.jpg)
(http://static.squarespace.com/static/5188790be4b0851a91a0f52e/518bc1a3e4b04c0065d8ac86/51a69e1ae4b0fd1b0015567d/1369873948815/JD6fs%20copy.jpg)
I look forward to any feedback:)
Well I like it. It's got a punchy film-like (or storyboard-like) way about it. I also understand what's going on without any dialogue, so that's good too...I like the choices you've made. I don't recall this sample script, is it a new addition or something you chose from progs passim?
I agree with Bubba very original style would love to see it coloured :)
The flow and composition is good. I can't really see that as the final visual quality though, I feel it still needs some work. From experience the feedback tends to be, "work on anatomy and inking".
There is a lot to like here; your storytelling is very good and in general your figure work and perspective is quite strong. There is a nice solidity to some of your shapes. This biggest problem is the inking. At times it can appear scrappy, on the few occasions you have used a grey tone it has in my opinion added nothing to the drawing except a slight visual confusion.
If I was to suggest something for you to work on it would be a verity of different marks and shapes to construct your images out of. A couple of examples of where an extended mark pallet would have come in handy are things like frame 1 of page 2, the blotches don't really read to me as liquid and it took me a while to work out that it was meant to be blood. They are also busy and distracting when the rest of the artwork is so clean. It took me a few moments to work out which blotches was blood and which were the shapes of the dead guys face. Another place it would help is in the creation of texture. At the moment you use very similar marks to create the very smooth material of the Judges helmet and the much rougher marital of the clothing and the gun furniture. By varying the type of marks you use you can create different texture and a more variation of light diffusion.
I like a lot of what you have done with this, your designs poses and storytelling is all good it just needs polishing in my opinion.
Hey guys:)
Thanks for all the feedback, I appreciate it, it's given me a lot to think about for my next project.
Oh and the script is called 'Gun Runner', I found it here:
http://www.2000ad.org/?zone=droid&page=scripts&choice=gunrunner
Thanks again everyone:)
I particularly like the composition and arrangement of the panels on page 2, but yes, the inking is a little heavy handed in places.
still a million times better than anything i could do!
Have many people tried the Holed Up script ?, It would seem the most popular script is the Cycle of Violence.
First crack at the Holed Up sample script, obviously still working on this (http://www.ianschofield.net/src/img/2000ADPages.jpg)
promising stuff Ian.
Some great stuff on here (damn I hate the competition!)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7258534/SealedP1lwrz.jpg)
Plenty to like there, Fat Bobby. I like the energy, looseness and freshness though I think you need to tighten up the inking. Or actually tighten the pencils and inking. I am keen on loose as well as tight styles but I think some of this looks rather rushed and sparse in places. I think you also need to look at depth and consider differentiating between foreground, midground and background, perhaps through thickness of inking line or shading. And yes, one can never have enough practise on anatomy.
IanSchofield – just goes to show how much hard graft goes into comic art. That stage is always a battle for me. I always enjoy seeing people's work in progress. Look forward to seeing next stages.
JTPegg – superb. 'Nuff said.
Thanks for your comments guys, here is a little more of my attempt at Holed Up, will post the final when its done (http://distilleryimage2.s3.amazonaws.com/34474076e8a111e2b18c22000ae906be_7.jpg) You can catch more process on my Instagram here http://instagram.com/p/bjExACTeq6/
Quote from: JTPegg on 06 July, 2013, 05:33:26 AM
Some great stuff on here (damn I hate the competition!)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7258534/SealedP1lwrz.jpg)
That IMHO is prog worthy, the panels have depth and a good use of contrast, they scan well and flow into each other and have strong movement. There is a great use of texture without it arresting the eye and Dredd has weight and gravitas, while the other figures have character and again movement. The choice of camera angles work well too flowing effortlessly...more please!
JTPegg - that is some fine work there, my friend. I'm not an artist, but I know what I like and I like that. I'm a sucker for pure black & white "old school" pen work. I wouldn't greyscale or colour that in anyway. I particularly like the panel with Dredd on the lawmaster.
I don't know what script you have used here, but have you considered the needs of the letterer? There doesn't look like there is too much room in that Dredd panel, which is fine if he only says two words (or nothing).
No higher praise than to say I'd buy that page for my collection...
Quote from: SimeonB on 09 July, 2013, 04:17:42 PM
I don't know what script you have used here, but have you considered the needs of the letterer? There doesn't look like there is too much room in that Dredd panel, which is fine if he only says two words (or nothing).
Agree with the positive sentiments your work is consistently amazing Mr Lynch and it's always lovely to see it - but SimeonB's statement (while it may not be relevant in this case) is ALWAYS worth re-stating to anyone readin this thread and doing sample scripts and that. Think about the poor letterer - as many folk don't - !
Almost done with this now, There is one panel blank I have drawn it but yet to scan it in.
It's the Holed Up script, Crits welcome thanks for taking the time to look at my work
(http://ianschofield.net/src/img/2000AD_Sample.jpg)
Hi Ian. I'm not an artist, so I view the pieces on this thread as both a consumer of comics and a collector of original art. Overall I like the style very much. The sparse use of colour reminds me of Shakara, and that is no bad thing. The last two panels of the first page - is there room for the lettering. I will probably spend my life on this thread saying this, but there is no point in having a stunning panel if there is no room for the letterer to work with or the lettering impacts the essence of the panel. Another example is page 3 and the panel with the red eye chap. Looks to me like the speech bubble with cover the incoming droid or the panel above.
There are some excellent lettering guides on the forum, and some excellent letterers. I also enjoyed the recent thread celebrating good lettering. I will search it out and post a link here.
I'm sure the creators will help you more with the style and construction and so on, but overall I like it, I would want to read the story and I would definitely consider acquiring a page for my collection.
Also, thanks for sharing the process of creating the pages on this thread. I enjoy seeing how all that stuff works.
Many thanks SimeonB, much appreciated. Having a quick look at the submissions page looks like I fell foul of one of the ten commandments
NEVER BLEED THE IMAGE OFF THE LAST PANEL OF THE STORY - LEAVE ROOM FOR 'NEXT PROG' LINE
I will fix that
Quote from: JTPegg on 06 July, 2013, 05:33:26 AM
Some great stuff on here (damn I hate the competition!)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7258534/SealedP1lwrz.jpg)
Lovely work sir - love your inking style and figure work, great layout etc etc - certainly print worthy.
Have you submitted before? Still awaiting a response on my 2nd submission and interested to know if you have submitted previously what the feedback was from the Mighty Tharg.
Quote from: IanSchofield on 10 July, 2013, 11:41:04 PM
Almost done with this now, There is one panel blank I have drawn it but yet to scan it in.
It's the Holed Up script, Crits welcome thanks for taking the time to look at my work
(http://ianschofield.net/src/img/2000AD_Sample.jpg)
Very nice work Ian - very polished. Story flows well and page layouts are great. Well done sir.
Not sure that I can comment on whether there is enough space for lettering, Ian as I don't know how text heavy the script is.
Certainly is very accomplished work and very interesting seeing it from sketch to (almost) completion. Very impressive.
I do like your alien space tech and your layouts but if I was to criticise:
I wonder if the layout of page 3 interrupts the flow. My eye goes to panel 3 before two as it is higher. I find the border of panel 2 a bit confusing as the elements on the left blend into panel 1 and the tone of the panel 2 space craft is the same as the building on panel 1. I think you should either box off the entire panel 2 or bleed it off the left side of the page. I initially thought the space craft was part of panel one architecture. Also, it seems as if the landing ramp and troops seem to be floating rather than on the ground.
I also wonder if you need a tad more contrast in the greys – but that might be a subjective thing.
But just to say again, very impressed with your work.
(Note: Comments of an amateur but hope it helps. If one of the pros or experienced artists come along hopefully they will give you their thoughts.)
Thanks Steve much appreciated.
Supersurfer Many thanks, I have been working on my own comic for a while now based on Journey to the West (Monkey Magic) so this is my first venture at a sci-fi strip but I am glad you like the tech designs, I think you are right about panel 3 I have fixed that and I have added more depth to the greys too, thank you for taking the time to crit.
(http://ianschofield.net/src/img/HoledUp_ForWeb.jpg)
Great stuff Ian. Wish I had time to have a go myself.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7258534/Sealedp2lwrz.jpg)
Quote
Have you submitted before? Still awaiting a response on my 2nd submission and interested to know if you have submitted previously what the feedback was from the Mighty Tharg.
Hi Steven - Best of luck with your second tryout!! Tharg does indeed know me and regularly sends me hotshots in the mail. I would also say that whenever you get any feedback from the Green Guy, have a good read as there are always little gems in there to learn from. A great deal of what your seeing here is as a result of that feedback.
A couple (off-hand) that come to mind:
1. Don't send just poster work, they want to see your storytelling style.
It's worth doing a little research on this. Look at your favourite artists and how they make you flow around the page. There are also some great books on storyboarding that can really feed back into your stripwork regarding framing/composition - personal fav: 'Framed Ink' by Marcos Mateau-Mestre.
2. Send Black and White samples.
By all means send 'em coloured as well, but they are judging your technique and colour is seen as something you can 'hide behind' and that may worry them as you are not demonstrating how you can 'express' yourself in simple old ink! Best thing that helped me is looking at my favourite artist (particularly their older stuff) and instead of just looking at their 'big strokes', look at their 'throw-away' marks. Practice those marks and add them to your 'library'.
For what its worth, if I can be of any assistance, feel free to PM me, dude...
The low rez copy of the completed tryout can be viewed on the link below:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7258534/DreddSEALEDlwrz.pdf (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7258534/DreddSEALEDlwrz.pdf)
JTPegg :o
Thanks for posting all that ART in PDF.... LOVE your Dredd and helmet... your ART reminds me of reading BAD Company in the old days
will there be colour being added ??
Quote from: JTPegg on 19 July, 2013, 08:49:35 PM
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7258534/Sealedp2lwrz.jpg)
Quote
Have you submitted before? Still awaiting a response on my 2nd submission and interested to know if you have submitted previously what the feedback was from the Mighty Tharg.
Hi Steven - Best of luck with your second tryout!! Tharg does indeed know me and regularly sends me hotshots in the mail. I would also say that whenever you get any feedback from the Green Guy, have a good read as there are always little gems in there to learn from. A great deal of what your seeing here is as a result of that feedback.
A couple (off-hand) that come to mind:
1. Don't send just poster work, they want to see your storytelling style.
It's worth doing a little research on this. Look at your favourite artists and how they make you flow around the page. There are also some great books on storyboarding that can really feed back into your stripwork regarding framing/composition - personal fav: 'Framed Ink' by Marcos Mateau-Mestre.
2. Send Black and White samples.
By all means send 'em coloured as well, but they are judging your technique and colour is seen as something you can 'hide behind' and that may worry them as you are not demonstrating how you can 'express' yourself in simple old ink! Best thing that helped me is looking at my favourite artist (particularly their older stuff) and instead of just looking at their 'big strokes', look at their 'throw-away' marks. Practice those marks and add them to your 'library'.
For what its worth, if I can be of any assistance, feel free to PM me, dude...
Cheers buddy,
Just checked out your PDF's, really great stuff - hope you're accepted as I would certainly dig to see your stuff in print.
Thanks for the feedback - following my first submission the feedback from Mr Smith was very short and to the point (which I don't mind at all), it basically said, 'Storytelling is good, drawing is good but you need to refine your inks', which I have been working on and think I certainly achieved an improvement with the second submission - you may have seen it on earlier pages.
I am still awaiting a response (only been 4 months so early days really) and am looking forward to hearing what advise I receive next. I am under no illusion and don't expect to be accepted on the submission but will continue to plough on based upon the feedback received.
I have a couple of questions for you that aren't really for advice but more out of interest - what is your procedure when pulling a page together, do you go straight for it or do a lot of preparatory work? And on the back of that question whats your timescale for a page?
All the best sir.
Quote from: Steven Austin on 28 July, 2013, 08:06:40 PM
Quote from: JTPegg on 19 July, 2013, 08:49:35 PM
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7258534/Sealedp2lwrz.jpg)
Quote
Have you submitted before? Still awaiting a response on my 2nd submission and interested to know if you have submitted previously what the feedback was from the Mighty Tharg.
Hi Steven - Best of luck with your second tryout!! Tharg does indeed know me and regularly sends me hotshots in the mail. I would also say that whenever you get any feedback from the Green Guy, have a good read as there are always little gems in there to learn from. A great deal of what your seeing here is as a result of that feedback.
A couple (off-hand) that come to mind:
1. Don't send just poster work, they want to see your storytelling style.
It's worth doing a little research on this. Look at your favourite artists and how they make you flow around the page. There are also some great books on storyboarding that can really feed back into your stripwork regarding framing/composition - personal fav: 'Framed Ink' by Marcos Mateau-Mestre.
2. Send Black and White samples.
By all means send 'em coloured as well, but they are judging your technique and colour is seen as something you can 'hide behind' and that may worry them as you are not demonstrating how you can 'express' yourself in simple old ink! Best thing that helped me is looking at my favourite artist (particularly their older stuff) and instead of just looking at their 'big strokes', look at their 'throw-away' marks. Practice those marks and add them to your 'library'.
For what its worth, if I can be of any assistance, feel free to PM me, dude...
Cheers buddy,
Just checked out your PDF's, really great stuff - hope you're accepted as I would certainly dig to see your stuff in print.
Thanks for the feedback - following my first submission the feedback from Mr Smith was very short and to the point (which I don't mind at all), it basically said, 'Storytelling is good, drawing is good but you need to refine your inks', which I have been working on and think I certainly achieved an improvement with the second submission - you may have seen it on earlier pages.
I am still awaiting a response (only been 4 months so early days really) and am looking forward to hearing what advise I receive next. I am under no illusion and don't expect to be accepted on the submission but will continue to plough on based upon the feedback received.
I have a couple of questions for you that aren't really for advice but more out of interest - what is your procedure when pulling a page together, do you go straight for it or do a lot of preparatory work? And on the back of that question whats your timescale for a page?
All the best sir.
Hi Steven -
I have looked at your stuff and REALLY enjoy it - nice moody shots and good angles. Sorry you've not heard back in 4 months. I confess I've never had to wait that long and if it were me, I would consider re-submitting with a (polite) letter explaining yourself. Tharg can be extremely busy but generally he does get back to you.
Regarding your other questions... A bit of both if I'm honest but generally I ALWAYS THUMBNAIL:
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7258534/Thumbs.jpg)
Its actually one of my favourite bits of the process. I always thumb in pen as it helps me for some or other reason.
When I read a script a few panel descriptions will instantly bring an image to mind. I'll then re-read it a few times to make sure I get it. Normally, the other panels are forming from this.
Rate the page: is there anything on it that stands out / is important / is just damned cool!?
Consider making that your main image and working the other images around it. There some superb examples of this (Henry Flint for starters). But the absolute master (for me) is Mike McMahon, see 'Block Mania' or 'Sky Chariots' to name a few and prepare to have your eyeballs melted!
Flow and pacing: There are 'invisible' lines that pull you round a page so try to consider how to make people look where you want them to look. Layout is king not just the images in it, McMahon (again) makes a page 'beautiful'/a piece or artwork to be admired.
Pacing is what occurs from size and detail. The longer the eye has to rest upon an image, the longer the 'beat' - what are the 'beats' of the story? Try listening to some music with a steady beat. For each of those beats look at a panel of your story - does it still 'read'? If you are no longer in time with the music it because you are dancing to your own tune!
Stay fluid: Sometimes you gotta ignore a thumbnail and do something else. I used to be one of those idiots who would come up against a panel that I could not crack and the whole process would come to a halt. These days, I skip it and move onto the next, continually trying to move forward then coming back round to it. Normally, by the time I'm back to the problem, the answer has revealed itself.
Time? Hard to say as I thumbnail, pencil and ink in batches. I don't tend to move on to each stage until the previous is sorted. Sometimes I can get trapped on one panel that seems to takes ages, but will often return to these over time in an effort to get the mass done (stay fluid). Generally I would say I can do 1 page a week, part time, or 1-2 full time. its very much dependent on what is required.
Hope that helps? :)
Hi JT,
Thanks for taking the time to reply so fully.
I think will take your advice and resubmit - I think the 1st submission took about 3 months before I received a response but quite a bit over that now so resubmission couldn't hurt.
Thanks for sharing the sketches - really enjoyed these, I love seeing the thought processes and prelims.
I too thumbnail first and always in biro, I think it forces me to be a little more decisive with what I am putting down on paper - not sure but prefer sketching this way.
Let me know how you get on with the submission, be interested in finding out.
All the best sir.
Here is my go at the PF script.
(http://i.imgur.com/g13HpUT.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/YCk1rXr.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/GKwWr1L.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/pmMKyZx.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/xDQqAxy.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/KaGh21j.jpg)
All feedback welcome!
Your perspectives are getting better all the time - there's still a few awkward hands in there (2:1 particularly) but some panels are stunningly good and the last page is great. Great inking as well - lots of detail to chew on - Dredd is very consistent. :D Nice pages Ross!
I like you MC1 landscapes very much. A little bit of Paul Marshall in them (which is high praise from me)... Your judge on page 4 that is turning his head to face the people has turned his head too far and it has become "The Exorcist" movement, but a jolly decent stab at this script...
Thanks very much guys. I'll keep at it.
Nice work Ross ... been following you on deviantart... Some really good scenes you are creating with city and views . The people sometimes look a bit stiff and unnatural in their stance position though page 2 picture 7 eg :)
Thought you'd like to know, the recent samples I submitted were accepted and I am currently awaiting commission from The Mighty One.
Many thanks to everyone for their support and advice...
Brilliant news. Well done, that man. Errr, droid. I meant droid. Obviously!
Cheers
Jim
Quote from: JTPegg on 27 August, 2013, 03:16:07 PM
Thought you'd like to know, the recent samples I submitted were accepted and I am currently awaiting commission from The Mighty One.
Many thanks to everyone for their support and advice...
That's great news,
JT, well done. You should be a great addition to the line-up.
Put me down for first dibs on your pages if you sell them ;)
Quote from: JTPegg on 27 August, 2013, 03:16:07 PM
Thought you'd like to know, the recent samples I submitted were accepted and I am currently awaiting commission from The Mighty One.
Many thanks to everyone for their support and advice...
Fantastic news!! :D
Well done JT, that is wonderful news. :thumbsup:
Stew.
Quote from: JTPegg on 27 August, 2013, 03:16:07 PM
Thought you'd like to know, the recent samples I submitted were accepted and I am currently awaiting commission from The Mighty One.
Many thanks to everyone for their support and advice...
BRILLIANT! Well done, well played JTPegg!!
Quote from: JTPegg on 27 August, 2013, 03:16:07 PM
Thought you'd like to know, the recent samples I submitted were accepted and I am currently awaiting commission from The Mighty One.
Many thanks to everyone for their support and advice...
That's fantastic news mate!! Well done and very very well deserved. I received my letter today which as expected was a no but very positive and only a few relatively minor tweaks so onwards and upwards.
Well done again man - chuffed for ya!!
Quote from: RossBam on 15 August, 2013, 07:15:55 PM
Here is my go at the PF script.
All feedback welcome!
Nice work Ross.
As has already been mentioned and having just received feedback from my second submission I think Tharg will defo pick you up on the figure work, some are a little stiff and also your proportions are a tad off - especially in the first panel where Dredd looks huge in comparison to passers by.
Nice angles though and love the cityscapes - inking is nice and clean and story seems to flow although in the first panel you may want to look at the placement of Dredd to the main character as Dredd has a building to his left in the first panel with the runner and crowd to his right but then in the 3rd panel he has the crowd to his left (where the script says he has turned around) but the runner to his right - it just seems to jar a little. Not sure how you would solve this or indeed if it needs solving, that's just my take, others may disagree.
Keep at it man!!
Anyone had a crack at the Thought Bubble compo script yet? Only a four-pager this year.
Well here I am again - second submission was politely declined so onto the third. I have decided to give Dredd a miss for this one and try something different.
Here is the first page from the sample script Kahn Foul Eye.
Feedback on my previous sample was that some of the figures seemed a little stiff, needed to vary my line more and also that some panels seemed a little cluttered.
Feedback is 'most' welcome....please.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/1273284_516713125076486_882241837_o.jpg)
This looks great - feel though that your hero figure (standing in the doorway in pane 2 is the weakest of the -otherwise great - figures you've drawn).
Thanks PJ thats really useful - in what way would you say he was weakest? Perhaps too generic in his stance?
Quote from: pauljholden on 18 September, 2013, 11:07:46 AM
This looks great - feel though that your hero figure (standing in the doorway in pane 2 is the weakest of the -otherwise great - figures you've drawn).
Thanks PJ thats really useful - in what way would you say he was weakest? Perhaps too generic in his stance?
Yeah, It's a little unconvincing as a pose-if he's bursting in you'll want him standing more proud, if he's ready for battle he'd be turned slightly leading with his weapon.
(Had not intended so many double entendres )
Pj
Hahaha!! Leading with his weapon rather than with his sack!! Thanks mate, i'll have a tinker.
Quote from: pauljholden on 18 September, 2013, 11:38:41 AM
Yeah, It's a little unconvincing as a pose-if he's bursting in you'll want him standing more proud, if he's ready for battle he'd be turned slightly leading with his weapon.
(Had not intended so many double entendres )
Pj
Hahaha!! Leading with his weapon rather than with his sack!! Thanks mate, i'll have a tinker.
Quote from: pauljholden on 18 September, 2013, 11:38:41 AM
Yeah, It's a little unconvincing as a pose-if he's bursting in you'll want him standing more proud, if he's ready for battle he'd be turned slightly leading with his weapon.
(Had not intended so many double entendres )
Pj
Hi PJ,
Advice taken - what do you think?
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af150/ausven/Kahnpage1web_zps410579eb.jpg)
Much stronger - looks like a fights about to start.
I like that Steve. Got a bit of Ernie Chan/Chua to it.
Quote from: pauljholden on 19 September, 2013, 11:14:24 AM
Much stronger - looks like a fights about to start.
Sweet, thanks PJ.
Quote from: SuperSurfer on 19 September, 2013, 12:20:22 PM
I like that Steve. Got a bit of Ernie Chan/Chua to it.
Cheers SS, appreciate that.
I'm liking that, Steven. Very detailed, which I like. A touch of the Leigh Gallaghers about it, which I also like. I'd want to read more, and I understand the story even without any text.
Ticks all the boxes for me...
Quote from: SimeonB on 19 September, 2013, 04:06:20 PM
I'm liking that, Steven. Very detailed, which I like. A touch of the Leigh Gallaghers about it, which I also like. I'd want to read more, and I understand the story even without any text.
Ticks all the boxes for me...
Thanks Simeon, 'ticking all the boxes' is high praise indeed. Thanks mate.
Ok here are the pencils for page 2 - On starting the page I realised that in order for it to work as the writer intended with regards to character positioning the last panel on page 1 will need to be flipped so please ignore that boo boo for now.
Feedback would be greatly appreciated.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/1269716_519848278096304_486059871_o.jpg)
Hmmm the last image came in a little large - here it is smaller.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af150/ausven/Page2pencilsweb2000ad_zpsda0929d0.jpg)
This page really works (I've not looked at the script so not sure what you refer to with the text)... but this looks like it's all of of a one, it flows well, it's dramatic. At some point further development in any art from can only come from doing it and you're certainly doing it... so now just keep doing it!
I'm not sure but I think this has the best flow of what you've shown (IMO)...but I'm going to go back and look again.
All the best!
Quote from: Bubba Zebill on 24 September, 2013, 10:57:04 PM
This page really works (I've not looked at the script so not sure what you refer to with the text)... but this looks like it's all of of a one, it flows well, it's dramatic. At some point further development in any art from can only come from doing it and you're certainly doing it... so now just keep doing it!
I'm not sure but I think this has the best flow of what you've shown (IMO)...but I'm going to go back and look again.
All the best!
Thanks Bubba - my only worry - and you haven't mentioned it so I assume it is evident - is that the fella in the 4th panel is pulled from the sack Kahn is carrying. I suppose in fact that once text was added it would quash that.
This page is basically Kahn, who having entered the bar and found the pirate captain he seeks, sits himeslf down whilst helping himself to the captains booze. Kahn recounts a story of riches aboard a ship which is protected by sea demons controlled by a magician and an amulet. The pirate captain dismisses Kahn's claim that he will raid the ship as madness, until that is Kahn produces the magician and amulet from his sack at which point the captain, laughing, agrees to assist.
Thought I'd have a (second) stab at this. Because I'm an optimist.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/25024/PFV2_Page001_Forum.jpg)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/25024/PFV2_Page002_Forum.jpg)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/25024/PFV2_Page003_Forum.jpg)
Quote from: Jon on 27 September, 2013, 12:27:18 PM
Thought I'd have a (second) stab at this. Because I'm an optimist.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/25024/PFV2_Page001_Forum.jpg)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/25024/PFV2_Page002_Forum.jpg)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/25024/PFV2_Page003_Forum.jpg)
This is great mate - seen the first page on FB but the rest is great - love the facial expressions and movement, very animated.
If I were to offer any constructive criticism it would be about Panel 5 on page 2, the guy looks as though he is sitting in the toilet and not on it and Panel 7 on page 3 I think his right arm looks awkward, I think the reason is that in that position his right shoulder would be higher than his left.
Awesome work sir!!! ONWARDS!!!
Thanks Steven, you're very kind.
And right. Dammit.
I changed one of those panels. I'll get round to the other soon (though it's already had two redraws, so, y'know... :-\
Thanks for the feedback.
Here's page 2 of my next submission - inked....finally!! Feedback please!!
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-vXZZVmBSEe8/Ukvzx42KHFI/AAAAAAAAA1c/vgEjbuvByI8/w713-h1008-no/Page+2+final+web.jpg)
I wish I was better at the critical stuff. Looks really good to me.
Final three pages for me. Probably. Until tomorrow morning when I look again, no doubt.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/25024/PFV2_Page004_Forum.jpg)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/25024/PFV2_Page005_Forum.jpg)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/25024/PFV2_Page006_Forum.jpg)
Quote from: Jon on 08 October, 2013, 10:37:02 PM
I wish I was better at the critical stuff. Looks really good to me.
Final three pages for me. Probably. Until tomorrow morning when I look again, no doubt.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/25024/PFV2_Page004_Forum.jpg)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/25024/PFV2_Page005_Forum.jpg)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/25024/PFV2_Page006_Forum.jpg)
Nailed it mate - love that last page - works very well for me. Love the humour, think you've captured it really well. Til tomorrow!? ;)
Well done!
Anyone having a crack at the Thought Bubble contest script this year?
Here's my page 3 of the Telgaath script.
As always feedback would be appreciated.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af150/ausven/Page3finalweb_zps86d06a31.jpg)
(http://nsa34.casimages.com/img/2013/11/07/131107043152946491.jpg) (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=131107043152946491.jpg)
(http://nsa34.casimages.com/img/2013/11/08/131108025421550951.jpg) (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=131108025421550951.jpg)
2000ad don't want sample scripts sent lettered, as is my understanding, and the credit box and that isn't provided by the artist.
Nice individual panels and some good manic energy but looks unfinished - especially the last panel, the flow of the page is a bit confused.
and again, that Lawgiver is massive
@CrazyFoxMachine, you are right...it's not finished... :-[
Well you should say that when you post it up, sir!
Quote from: CrazyFoxMachine on 08 November, 2013, 02:50:11 PM
2000ad don't want sample scripts sent lettered, as is my understanding, and the credit box and that isn't provided by the artist.
Aye, I can understand aspiring artits wanting to 'finish' their samples, but 2000AD are only interested in your ability to do one thing well - be that art, lettering, colours or scripting. Trying your hand at too many things will just put them off, and why would you want your artistic aspirations hampered by a bad lettering job when it isn't really lettering you want to do anyway?
Nice try. Some really good drawings and ideas mixed in with some average ones.
My effort - http://sghillustration.deviantart.com/art/DREDD-CYCLE-OF-VIOLENCE-1-414598213
There's a lot to like there, but you know what I'm going to say, don't you?
Never letter your art submissions. Especially never letter them in Comic Sans, but never letter them at all. Tharg will never ask you to letter your own work — he wants to assess your story-telling abilities and lettering can be an easy way to cover up bad story-telling.
(Page 2, in particular, lacks any clear reading direction and even the lettering doesn't help that much in guiding the reader's eye through the story. This is something you absolutely have to work out at the layout stage, because there's no fixing it further into the process.)
Also, never letter anything in Comic Sans. The very first hit on Google for "free comic book lettering fonts" is Blambot, who have a really good range of free dialogue (http://www.blambot.com/fonts_dialogue_standard.shtml) and sound effect (http://www.blambot.com/fonts_sfx.shtml) fonts.
Cheers
Jim
Ok, thanks for the advice - all noted
Good stuff there, and I note that you have the unlettered versions in your gallery too, so no foul. I do however agree with Jim that the reading order of some of your pages is unclear - page 2 in particular, while pretty gorgeous to look at, is very difficult to read. Enjoyed the work though, a sharp-looking version.
@sghillustration fantastic 3d art on your deviant art page !!
(http://nsa34.casimages.com/img/2013/11/21/131121015857816949.jpg) (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=131121015857816949.jpg) ...page2...
-----------------------------------------------
http://www.behance.net/denisdenis
...page 2
(http://nsa33.casimages.com/img/2013/11/26/131126103847192759.jpg) (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=131126103847192759.jpg)
(http://nsa34.casimages.com/img/2013/12/02/131202095038893646.jpg) (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=131202095038893646.jpg) page3
Trev, I think you'd benefit from posting these pages up when you feel they're completed, then you'll get a fair shake on the comments. I realise it'd be awesome to get that guidance and help as you draw the pages, but honestly, it's a lot easier for everyone if what you post are either completed inks.
-pj
ok, sorry to bother you...I'll do that..
I had a go at Sorrowhill, here's page one, comments welcome
(http://markofthedead.deviantart.com/art/Unused-comic-1-386848270)
(http://markofthedead.deviantart.com/art/Unused-comic-1-386848270)
(http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2013/201/7/3/unused_comic_1_by_markofthedead-d6ebi1a.jpg)
page 2
(http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2013/201/e/3/unused_comic_page_2_by_markofthedead-d6ebi9k.jpg)
page 3
(http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2013/201/9/e/unused_comic_page_3_by_markofthedead-d6ebiju.jpg)
page 4
(http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2013/201/5/e/unused_comic_page_4_by_markofthedead-d6ebio3.jpg)
page 5
(http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2013/201/9/b/unused_comic_page_5_by_markofthedead-d6ebium.jpg)
Quote from: markofthedead on 11 January, 2014, 07:31:53 AM
page 5
(http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2013/201/9/b/unused_comic_page_5_by_markofthedead-d6ebium.jpg)
I like the graphic nature of these pages.
It's interesting and graphic and bold. Feel like it's not quite comics though, more a series of illustrations. They're a little too spartan too - there's no sense of place, inside and outside locations are identical limboesque white rooms- and often the lighting doesn't match up (which isn't that big a deal, but when you're leaning so heavily on dramatic lighting when it conflicts it looks very wrong - the shadow of the old guy with the hat [last panel page 2], for example, appears to be from light cast behind him, yet the shadow on him and the other figure seems to be coming from the far right).
Where you've left a piece of art open to have the reader fill in the rest (a good strategy!) you've left out the background [page 5, tier 3 last panel for example]-which means they've got to do a lot of work to picture what it is they're looking. The effect is that the art looks incomplete. The diamond rectangle on this page further hightens that - it looks like a panel that's missing, rather than the window they're looking out of?
So, my advice (for what it's worth) is: more backgrounds, remove lines where you feel the reader can make the leap and maybe don't lean so heavy on photo ref (I may be wrong, but page 5 third tier panel 1 looks like Sylvester McCoy, but he doesn't look like Sylvester McCoy anywhere else...)
-pj
Thanks, I appreciate the feedback. It was Sylvester McCoy, I used him for the priest throughout but only one panel ended up looking like him :-) The photo reference comment certainly does identify one of my major shortcomings.
Hi Mark,
I like the strength in the images but feel that the pictoral narrative lacks flow - largely I think because the images do feel as though they have been lifted from photographs - perhaps a little too literal in that respect.
Love the heavy shadow work on the figures but defo concur with PJ that the panels need more background work - doesn't have to be too detailed but enough to give the reader a sense of the characters belonging - somewhere.
With such heavy shadow on the characters and very little behind them, the story feels as though its playing out on a stage with heavy back-lighting and very few props. I think this is especially true on the first and last panels of page 2 and again on the first panel of page 4 where you (or the writer) have opted for one long panel but you have just placed a floating head in the middle.
The page that feels 'most' complete is page 5 I think - where apart from the confusing diamond in the centre it has a sense of 'almost' being complete.
I would really like to see this again further down the road - could be very cool.
Quote from: markofthedead on 11 January, 2014, 07:31:53 AM
page 5
(http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2013/201/9/b/unused_comic_page_5_by_markofthedead-d6ebium.jpg)
I agree, your use of photo reference is way too direct.
Personally I never use photo ref directly. I do sketches of the reference material, and then put the reference material away. Next I do more sketches of the original sketches, then sometimes sketches of the sketches of the original sketches.
This filters out the direct influence of the reference material but keeps the essence.
Hi,
Thanks for the feedback I really appreciate it.
I can see lots of good advice on how to improve. The photo reference stuff certainly is too obvious, I think I've always been influenced by 2000 AD artists like David Roach, Arthur Ransom, Glen Fabry etc who have a realistic style (not that I'm anywhere near as good as them!) but it's something I need to work on.
I also definitely need to work on being less static and storytelling. (BTW: the confusing diamond panel is meant to be just a blank panel in the script where the characters are transported to the alternate dimension, but I should have made all black as it just looks empty as a "white flash")
Thanks everyone
*Ranson* (Shakes fist at auto correct spelling)
Is that Alan Moore on page 2?
Hi,
No it isn't
Gah, too much Sorrowhill in a row?
Ah well, thought I'd have a (nother) crack at this as I fizzled out the first time round. Wanted to get more done, but I have to go make a giant snail now.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/25024/SH_Page_01_WIP%7E800.jpg)
IMHO that's progworthy :thumbsup:
love the way you did the explosion! really nice <3
Very nice :)
Thanks. You're all very kind.
Page 2.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/25024/SH_Page_02_WIP%7E800.jpg)
It's all very good but I completely love the expressions on the face of that bloke with the cloth cap. Especially the first panel. You don't need the speech bubbles to read his emotions.
Quote from: staticgirl on 15 February, 2014, 01:39:53 PM
It's all very good but I completely love the expressions on the face of that bloke with the cloth cap. Especially the first panel. You don't need the speech bubbles to read his emotions.
Again, thanks. It's good to hear as that was definitely one of the key things I was looking to improve.
Page 3:
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/25024/SH_Page_03_WIP%7E800.jpg)
Looking great. Cant wait to see the last two pages. Keep it up really wicked stuff
Page 4
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/25024/SH_Page_04_WIP%7E800.jpg)
Getting a Chris Weston/Glenn Fabry vibe from these, liking it.
Dunk!
Quote from: Dunk! on 19 February, 2014, 10:28:43 AM
Getting a Chris Weston/Glenn Fabry vibe from these, liking it.
I thought exactly the same.
You're a superb artist Jon.
Wow. Thank you so much.
Quote from: Dunk! on 19 February, 2014, 10:28:43 AM
Getting a Chris Weston/Glenn Fabry vibe from these, liking it.
Steve Pugh for me. 'Tis good work.
Cheers
Jim
Starting to experience a distinct loss of identity now....;)
Again, thanks. These are all encouraging names to be uttered anywhere near mine.
I'd have to agree with the Pugh/Fabry/Weston thing going on. Great work.
My only concern is that hand in panel 3 from the vicar.
BTW great camera angels on these panels as well.
Thanks, and hmm, yeah, maybe.
All these pages will get a redraw anyway. I tend to go through 'em and then go back with fresh eyes.
Good, technical work. Well done, Jon. When you planning on sending it in?
Thanks.
Oh, when it's finished. I've just had a load of urgent stuff come in, and a submission for something else. And I already feel a need to address at least 40% of what's there.
Soon....?
Judge Dredd - Cycle of Violence in my version.
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-NUaU64FJoQc/UxuUO_7Th5I/AAAAAAAAAG4/URHProMYJVM/s1600/1.jpg)
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-i8Ssh8lKBTI/UxuVIW9NNOI/AAAAAAAAAHA/XZ2T_8tuRpw/s1600/2.jpg)
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-FCryPMYLNok/UxuVOmZjRBI/AAAAAAAAAHI/Pe5nVYxcaNQ/s1600/3.jpg)
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ONv89x4I51A/UxuVUaOBEkI/AAAAAAAAAHQ/6avsCRLECig/s1600/4.jpg)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-WfAL_yKR9jk/UxuVYJkiHoI/AAAAAAAAAHY/s0-tFNyHOvM/s1600/5.jpg)
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-m1b4WPNa4BI/UxuVc3LIuaI/AAAAAAAAAHg/UPVNft4P3KA/s1600/6.jpg)
Got a bit sidetracked with other things, but page 5.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/25024/SH_Page_05_WIP%7E800.jpg)
Quote from: marek.dubienski on 08 March, 2014, 10:13:46 PM
Judge Dredd - Cycle of Violence in my version.
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-NUaU64FJoQc/UxuUO_7Th5I/AAAAAAAAAG4/URHProMYJVM/s1600/1.jpg)
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-i8Ssh8lKBTI/UxuVIW9NNOI/AAAAAAAAAHA/XZ2T_8tuRpw/s1600/2.jpg)
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-FCryPMYLNok/UxuVOmZjRBI/AAAAAAAAAHI/Pe5nVYxcaNQ/s1600/3.jpg)
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ONv89x4I51A/UxuVUaOBEkI/AAAAAAAAAHQ/6avsCRLECig/s1600/4.jpg)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-WfAL_yKR9jk/UxuVYJkiHoI/AAAAAAAAAHY/s0-tFNyHOvM/s1600/5.jpg)
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-m1b4WPNa4BI/UxuVc3LIuaI/AAAAAAAAAHg/UPVNft4P3KA/s1600/6.jpg)
Hi Marek,
Thanks for sharing your sample pages.
Your line work and inking is nice, its clean and crisp and the story flows relatively well.
My biggest gripe would be with your figure work, you need to get yourself into some life drawing classes as your proportions are way out - head to body ratios, limb length etc.
Keep at it!!
All the best
Steven
working from the sample script.
page 1
(http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2014/224/3/8/dredd_sample_page_1_by_wingthe3rd-d7uwc19.jpg)
Hi Ghrendal, welcome and all that. :D
Out of interest are these presented as pencils or final panels?
Final panels? I am working to be a better seq artist than anything else....so tear it apart ..it will only help..im going to post up page two today
Before I looking too deeply into the art, I'd say that Dredd is pretty off-model. Visor is wrong and there's no links on his badge. (Seems petty, I know, but his outfit is about the only thing about Dredd thats etched in stone - well, that and his chin)
Had a chance to look over the art, here's some notes! (yay!)
Panel 1, I'd shrink her head down, it's too large.
Panel 2, I'd make Dredd larger in shot (and higher up) - your perspective shot is wrong here (apologies that this isn't a great link, but should establish why it's wrong: http://www.drawinghowtodraw.com/drawing-lessons/drawing-faces-lessons/cc-figures-in-perspective.html )
Basically, find your horizon line (in this case I found it by tracing the lines of perspetive on the floor, figure out the height of the standing figure, use it as a basis for placing dredd - though dredd will be taller) and that's where his head and shoulders will be. Only problem is he will be overshadowing the female figure, but if you move her closer to the standing guy that problem may go away.
Panel 3, panel 4 - these are fine, a little scrappy, but your child looks like a child, which can be tough and you pulled it off, so +1 :)
Panel 5 Dredd shot, as said, Dredd's outfit is wrong (off-model is maybe too strong, it's his costume that's wrong). His gun isn't terribly convincing, there's plenty of good quality ref for Dredd's gun (though by far the best ref is to actually have one - I have a little tiny dredd gun from a dredd toy... it's invaluable).
Looking forward to seeing the rest!
(This thread: 4 years old, whatever became of all the samples way way up thread...?)
Quote from: pauljholden on 13 August, 2014, 04:53:30 PM
(This thread: 4 years old, whatever became of all the samples way way up thread...?)
Good question. It'd be very interesting to see how the various artists improved or refined their work since posting here.
Paul....thanks so much man...ill redraw the page with your advice in mind. Thanks!
(http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2014/229/b/8/dredd_sample_page_1_by_wingthe3rd-d7uwc19.jpg)
pg one redone
Shouldn't this be a sticky thread? :P
ghrendal - as well as the uniform being better your second Dredd has far more character in his expression and appearance which I think is good.
Somehow I managed to miss this, but Tiernen (Absalom, Robbie Burns) Trevallion had a crack at Cycle of Violence and the results are on his website (http://www.tiernentrevallion.co.uk/wp/comics/judge-dredd-test-pages/).
Well worth a look.
Cheers
Jim
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 13 September, 2014, 12:32:27 PM
Somehow I managed to miss this, but Tiernen (Absalom, Robbie Burns) Trevallion had a crack at Cycle of Violence and the results are on his website (http://www.tiernentrevallion.co.uk/wp/comics/judge-dredd-test-pages/).
Well worth a look.
Cheers
Jim
Blimey, so good!
A great example of the artist telling more story on top of what is in the script. There's all sorts of little details in there about the characters based on their clothes, the framing devices etc.
It's that time again where i'm looking for feedback on my attempt.
This time it's Karn Foul-Eye and here is page one:
(http://i.imgur.com/yVWWrJw.jpg?1)
pages 2 and 3:
(http://i.imgur.com/ovzHrs3.jpg?1)
(http://i.imgur.com/XQs6wn5.jpg?1)
and the last 2
(http://i.imgur.com/U9g27qP.jpg?1)
(http://i.imgur.com/1ionqps.jpg?1)
All feedback welcome!!
Hi, here is my art submission for Judge Dredd, Cycle of Violence, I have a somewhat brisk linework style and tend to lean towards noir at times too.
I would very much appreciate feedback and critique please, I am really open to thoughts and views and ways to improve my artwork.
Thanks
Hi Jag,
I don't have any advice cos I aint good enough to give any, but I'm liking some of your panels there, reminded me a little of John Ridgeway. Get on over and play with the art comps if you need inspiration to create (as I do). It's all good fun.
Thanks for the kind comments Stu101! I not thought of John Ridgeway before but I will check out more of his artwork. I will also have a look at the art comps too, thanks.
RossBam and Jag, they both look great, clearly you both put a lot of work into them and you both know what you are doing. I just love looking at all the interpretations of these scripts. I'd been trolling this thread long before I even joined the board-haha. Like you both, I am an illustrator and just finished a submission script too. I am by no means an expert, but I hope that my critiques are helpful and that others will give me the same when the time comes.
RossBam- It's nice to see someone doing a script other than cycle of violence but, especially the Karn one as I just finished up that one as well. I will post it once i get the scans and then everyone can rip me apart! The perspective and composition in your panels is great! In that regard, my only criticism would be with the fact that a lot of your panels have horizontal lines (like brick patterns and the horizon line of the sea) which are parallel to the horizontal lines of the panel frame. I think some angle variation might make things a bit more dynamic. That being said though, it's seems like maybe you came to that conclusion as well as this seems to lessen in the last 2 pages. Also, I feel like it's bit stiff. I really struggle with that when I ink things, it's hard to not just trace (for me) and to keep the life of my pencil sketches. To remedy this, I switched to a brush, but that's just me :) Lastly, great attention to detail,I'm really drawn to works like that.
JAG- Also a great job. I really like the balance of black and white in your work. I especially like this in the panel where Dredd is being rained on. Although, there are a few places where I think this could benefit from some more flushed out backgrounds. You clearly have an understanding of anatomy but I think that your work could benefit from some fine tuning- I know mine could!
I hope that these criticisms are helpful and that I don't come off as a know-it-all or something-haha.That is not my intention. I'm a struggling free lancer too and by no means a professional and just want to help. I find constructive criticism very helpful but hard to come by so try to dole it out when I feel like I could help.
Like I said, I'll be throwing my stuff up in the coming week and you can both seek your revenge!
All the best with your submissions.
Michael, thanks for taking the time for the constructive criticism and kind comments. Looking at it again you are quite right I could flesh out the background more which would add more detail to the panels. I think the fine tuning should come in time with practice and hard work. The rain scenes was something I enjoyed a lot for sure. Thanks a lot, really appreciate it and best of luck with your submission!
Jag,
my pleasure! Keep up the good work!
Here's my attempt at The Colossal Wealth of Karn Foul-eye. I'm sure that there are some places where I should've taken my own advice. Rip me apart guys!
Check out this and more at: michaeladamkindred.com (http://michaeladamkindred.com)
(I don't know how to make them smaller maybe best veiwed on website)
(https://33.media.tumblr.com/db61cf7d8d0cd96f2de9fec8b248710a/tumblr_ng4tfd0IPB1rnosg7o1_1280.jpg)
(https://33.media.tumblr.com/7f3e8d7f6a82c5effa97e2b23ab0cc17/tumblr_ng4tfd0IPB1rnosg7o2_1280.jpg)
(https://31.media.tumblr.com/6eee8be91d48dfea1cd1ec706a8ffe1d/tumblr_ng4tfd0IPB1rnosg7o3_1280.jpg)
(https://31.media.tumblr.com/87ffc5685678a6840e8431f016a8c6df/tumblr_ng4tfd0IPB1rnosg7o4_1280.jpg)
(https://38.media.tumblr.com/04f7462638d88d631c6e9d16cd21f10e/tumblr_ng4tfd0IPB1rnosg7o5_1280.jpg)
Hi Michael, really cool pages. At times the pages are quite energetic and I like when you start experimenting with your inking a bit more in the later pages. As you mentioned before about tightening up anatomy, that will come in time and may be also look at foreshortening too. I feel at times you could add just a bit of extra black to make certain areas and anatomy pop out and more readable. I don't know the script at all but in general everything seems to read fine. The only page which throws me panel wise is page three, I find my eye is having to read downwards rather then left to right but this is just personal taste. Really like the energy you get into your pages, best of luck!
Hey Jag,
I totally agree with what you have to say. There are definitely places that would read better with more contrast, especially in my figure drawing or even just to draw the eye there. I agree about page 3 as well, it was a bit of a gamble and in the future I might not make the same decisions. Anatomy will always be a thing-haha. Thanks for taking the time to check this out and for the feedback!
No worries at all, it was great seeing your art!
Still at it, and here's my recent go at Dredd: Cycle of violence - it's been a while since I had a look at any other attempts in this thread, however I apologise if any panels similar to those already created have sneaked in from my subconscious:
(http://i.imgur.com/dqbrjSll.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/NMSbMoZl.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/2kaBqQul.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/o5Y0yQIl.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/xPRkuRrl.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/6gSsH90l.jpg)
feedback welcome!!
Nice work!
Good things: Your Mega City 1 outdoor shots are freaking amazing, as are your indoor architecture scenes.
Lovely use of shifting camera views too.
Could-be-better things: A lot of the looser, x-shaped cross-hatching looks superfluous and unprofessional - leave it out entirely would be my advice.
Also some of your characters seem a bit out of proportion.
But as I said, nice work!
Thanks for the feedback Jaysus!
MC1 is for me was definitely the most fun thing in this script to draw.
I'll be working on the could-be-betters as I continue.
Thanks again, all critiques welcome!!
love your mega city, very cool
Hi everyone!
I worked for 2000AD more than 10 years ago, when I was just a rookie . I illustrated the story 'What ever happened with Conrad Con?', written by Gordon Rennie, and it was a mess. It was awful. The worst thing I've ever done. I'm guilty!!
It seems there's another Carlos Trigo in the 2000AD database but that's not me and he shouldn't be mistaken with me, this guy has done some cool stuff (if you're still alive and reading this it would be a pleasure to meet you, Carlos).
I love Judge Dredd, so I decided to do a tryout for 2000AD, thinking I could do it better after a decade. I downloaded a sample script from here, I used the script 'Cycle of violence'... pretty original, huh? :D
Here's what I submitted 2 months ago!
(http://orig09.deviantart.net/ab90/f/2015/119/9/1/2000ad_pg1_by_ctrigo-d8rhc0d.jpg)
(http://orig01.deviantart.net/4361/f/2015/119/8/4/2000ad_pg2_by_ctrigo-d8rhc0f.jpg)
(http://orig14.deviantart.net/8523/f/2015/119/1/6/2000ad_pg3_by_ctrigo-d8rhc0i.jpg)
(http://orig06.deviantart.net/e386/f/2015/119/c/4/2000ad_pg4_by_ctrigo-d8rhc0j.jpg)
(http://orig04.deviantart.net/5518/f/2015/119/0/6/2000ad_pg5_by_ctrigo-d8rhc0u.jpg)
(http://orig14.deviantart.net/1602/f/2015/119/4/e/2000ad_pg6_by_ctrigo-d8rhc10.jpg)
See you around!!
I've just read the 800 pixels limit rule, I'm trying to re-edit, please don't shoot me.
Got to say I love the repetition on the last page. Really works IMO. Lovely pages, Carlos. Thanks for sharing
Good luck with your submission - this should get a positive look!
I really enjoyed looking at those Carlos. You have a superb style. Good luck with the submission! ;) Edited to add : just been looking at some of your work on Facebook. Very cool.
Thank you, guys, I'm glad you like them! :)
Hello! I have come to love the Judge costume where before it was a nightmare to draw, I'm still not sure I'm there but at least I enjoy the crazy elements that make up Dredd's dudds.
The terrific Dave Evans allowed me to contribute art to Zarjaz #23 ('Primal Scream') which was my first Dredd strip, I enjoyed it so much I wanted to do another for my portfolio. I honestly can't remember how I got the 'Cycle of Violence' script but I had no idea how popular or widely distributed and attempted it is. How embarrassed do you think I was when I submitted the art to Dave who spotted it immediately? Thankfully he was merciful and directed me here.
And so, rather than languishing on my hard drive gathering cyber-dust, here is my feeble attempt at 'Cycle of Violence':
(https://jimlavery.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/jd001.jpg) (https://jimlavery.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/jd002.jpg) (https://jimlavery.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/jd003.jpg) (https://jimlavery.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/jd003.jpg) (https://jimlavery.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/jd005.jpg) (https://jimlavery.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/jd006.jpg)
Hi guys. Do you know how long does the submissions period stay open? I just sent my first attempt and wanted to know if there's enough time to work on another one. Thanks.
As far as I am aware they are open all of the time, that said they did close earlier in the year for a few months whilst Tharg caught up with the backlog BUT not sure if this was a one off or if its something that will come to pass on a regular basis.
With regards to doing another, my advise would be to wait until you reiceve feedback from the Mighty One as this will detertmine what your next one should look to improve upon.
Nice work though.
:)
Quote from: Steven Austin on 05 October, 2015, 07:55:31 PM
As far as I am aware they are open all of the time, that said they did close earlier in the year for a few months whilst Tharg caught up with the backlog BUT not sure if this was a one off or if its something that will come to pass on a regular basis.
With regards to doing another, my advise would be to wait until you reiceve feedback from the Mighty One as this will detertmine what your next one should look to improve upon.
Nice work though.
:)
Thanks Steve. I haven't posted my work here yet but I will. Cheers.
Hello,
I'm an aspiring comic book penciller.
I've sent this 6 pages of JUDGE DREDD- Cycle of Violence to 2000AD and I got a brief feedback (but it was amazing to get for the first time a feedback from a professional and specially from Matt Smith).
But as I wrote before, the answer was very brief and I really would like to have the point of view of few more people because more informations, critics and advises I'll get, more quickly I'll improve my draw.
http://nezotholem.deviantart.com/gallery/
(http://orig12.deviantart.net/6c9f/f/2015/284/8/3/page__01___judge_dredd___cycle_of_violence_by_nezotholem-d9cpbzc.jpg)
(http://pre14.deviantart.net/d631/th/pre/f/2015/284/b/6/page__02___judge_dredd___cycle_of_violence_by_nezotholem-d9cpbvw.jpg)
(http://pre14.deviantart.net/8f4d/th/pre/f/2015/284/b/4/page__03___judge_dredd___cycle_of_violence_by_nezotholem-d9cpbtf.jpg)
(http://pre08.deviantart.net/51cb/th/pre/f/2015/284/5/6/page__04___judge_dredd___cycle_of_violence_by_nezotholem-d9cpbov.jpg)
(http://pre13.deviantart.net/aede/th/pre/f/2015/284/c/c/page__05___judge_dredd___cycle_of_violence_by_nezotholem-d9cpbhy.jpg)
(http://pre14.deviantart.net/e567/th/pre/f/2015/284/a/9/page__06___judge_dredd___cycle_of_violence_by_nezotholem-d9cpauf.jpg)
Awe great work there, love your style, dynamic and flowing, great talent
If I was Bolt-01 or Richmond, this thread would be like Christmas.
Heh, I've been in touch with quite a few folks from here- and the pages above are a fine example. Some lovely storytelling going on.
Now that one has flair and solid skills. The use of the scar is very well done. Congrats, Nezo!
If I was to make some criticisms, I'd say that I find the dead mother overly sexualised (and you're hardly alone in this), some of your very neat "inset" figures and linking panels might be a bit small on the printed page, and I wonder about the wisdom of doing quite so much background shading at the pencilling stage - although it does make your foregrounds pop, so it certainly works here.
But seriously, in a thread that never fails to impress, these pages are outstanding.
Quote from: Tordelback on 17 October, 2015, 12:36:04 PM
If I was to make some criticisms, I'd say that I find the dead mother overly sexualised (and you're hardly alone in this)...
In fairness, the script does specify:
Quote
Panel 1:
1. Overhead Med. Shot, a woman in the attire of a streetwalker lies amidst broken glass & domestic debris, her eyes staring at us lifelessly, blood tricking from a surprisingly small wound on her temple.
For a change of sample script here are my pages of the 2000AD Thought Bubble 2015 sample script. I really enjoyed doing this and have received lots of strong feedback based off these pages to improve my art going forward. The weekend was really fun and exciting. Obviously a shout out to Joe Palmer for taking the prize with his nice slick/clean style. I had a chance to see the other pages they were really good.
Higher res images, layouts and pencils can be found here:
http://comicart.antodonnell.com/comic_sequential_art.html (http://comicart.antodonnell.com/comic_sequential_art.html)
(https://antodonnell.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/tb_2015_phaseshift_page_01_inks.jpg)
(https://antodonnell.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/tb_2015_phaseshift_page_02_inks.jpg)
(https://antodonnell.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/tb_2015_phaseshift_page_03_inks.jpg)
(https://antodonnell.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/tb_2015_phaseshift_page_04_inks.jpg)
It does have a 2000ad look Ant
...heres mine (low rez), didnt even make the shortlist this year
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CT83GTyWoAIKvJ2.jpg)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CT83GQiWcAAxYIg.jpg)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CT83GHAWoAEd_ue.jpg)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CT83GauWEAALb46.jpg)
...hope this works linking from twitter
Both of those are bloomin' smashin!
Both of those are very good, the winner must have been excellent.
Some really strong shots and there Paul. I remember your entry last year I really liked that also.
This was my first year to enter so I learned that it's only judged on the first page on the day. That caught me out bad.
It did add some excitement to the weekend :)
Thanks for saying that, and yeah enjoyed the event, strange that, that Italian pro artist entered (all above board i guess) in the end they handled it right by separating him from you guys
Privileged to see Ant's original pages, they were utterly progworthy and the standard was genuinely brilliant across the board. Paul's on a par too, to be honest.
When you see 7 versions of the same thing, all different, all effective, it's properly fascinating.
Jo[e]'s winning entry struck me as a mashup of Dean Motter and Darwyn Cooke. Yep, that good!
I am by no means an expert, but I like that work Paul. It's got a 70s pencilled vibe, which is a Good Thing.
Thanks Fungus, it was nice randomly bumping in to you guys.
It was weird the italian artist was pushed at the end clearly his stuff was amazing work. I have a feeling he'll be working on something for 2000AD / Megazine anyway. As was mentioned on the day it's a contest for new talent not established talent. I stupidly forgot the artist's name ( I blame nerves ) and would like to check out more of his work if anyone remembers :/ Thanks.
Thought I'd post my stab at 'Cycle of Violence', 'cause you can never have too many of it... Right?
(http://i1039.photobucket.com/albums/a477/Carmdq/dredd1_zpsqchvh43x.jpg)
(http://i1039.photobucket.com/albums/a477/Carmdq/dredd2_zpswsjlmaw8.jpg)
(http://i1039.photobucket.com/albums/a477/Carmdq/dredd3_zpsyiufyle3.jpg)
(http://i1039.photobucket.com/albums/a477/Carmdq/dredd4_zpsdm4lhtbe.jpg)
(http://i1039.photobucket.com/albums/a477/Carmdq/dredd5_zpszf04n0dh.jpg)
(http://i1039.photobucket.com/albums/a477/Carmdq/dredd6_zps9aqnft4t.jpg)
Well I'd be very happy to see your art in future progs. Dredd looks like a badass!
Very cool work on here, here's my attempt on page 1 of the comedy story PF this is as far as I got cos life got in the way lol
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm1/neilsims75/dredd%20strip%20copy_zpsjvooplkv.jpg) (http://s292.photobucket.com/user/neilsims75/media/dredd%20strip%20copy_zpsjvooplkv.jpg.html)
Pineapplehead that is amazing. I would love to have seen the full story. Very prog worthy!
Cheers man, hopefully get round to doing the full story one day lol
Alright Fella's!- unfinished business with the Cycle of Violence submission, here's my latest try....
(http://i64.tinypic.com/1z6fhqx.jpg)
(http://i66.tinypic.com/nc11ew.jpg)
(http://i66.tinypic.com/5u06dw.jpg)
(http://i64.tinypic.com/ori804.jpg)
(http://i64.tinypic.com/33wxi7o.jpg)
(http://i67.tinypic.com/5noeaq.jpg)
To Jase:
Nice! your drawing of the hostage taker (The criminal scum from page 1, panel 4) is exceptionally savage, and adds a layer of trauma to Klein's origin. My only question is why does Klein's hair go from a dark tone to a lighter tone through out maturation?
To Pineapplehead:
Hilarious. I especially like the little subtle hint in the background (the 'old art droid for hire') and the subtle inclusion of a sex bot.
Hey Conceptualist!- thanks for the comment and looking,- the hair, looking lighter on Klein I think was an attempt to show his fringe sticking up (probably badly) in the light. When he see's himself in the mirror I wanted there to be a resemblance of his Dad.- thanks again
Hi Guys
Here are thumbnails for my latest attempt at the sample script. This time it is Karn Foul Eye (http://gdurl.com/ebwc)
C&c are more than welcome.
Cheers
Thanks conceptualist, yeah lol, subtle haha
hey guys, had a little bash at cycle of violence after seeing some of the great stuff on here, be good to get some real feedback, be as harsh as you like , cheers
file:///C:/Users/dave/Desktop/jpegs%20%20cov/1.jpg
(http://file:///C:/Users/dave/Desktop/jpegs%20%20cov/2.jpg)
dont seem to be able to post images , anyone know what im doing wrong?
You seem to be trying to post an image from your desktop, which won't be visible to the general public.
You need to put the image on a public hosting site (such as Photobucket), or in a shared public file location (such as available vis Dropbox, Google Drive, etc,) and share the link provided between <open square bracket> img]http://<File location>[/img] (
You can use the little photo icon on the left of the second row of tools, and paste the link in.
Good luck!
And it's always worth using the 'preview' button next to 'post' to check whether you've done it right.
Alright Chaps!- Does anybody know, is 4 months a bit long to be waiting to hear back from Tharg?
regarding an attempt at the sample scripts, cheers in advance
Nope.
cheers! good to know....
Hi guys
Here is my attempt at a sample script. Hope you like it, c&c are welcome.
(https://drive.google.com/uc?id=0B1i1M3CmcixxUVd2bnByWTRuOGs)
(https://drive.google.com/uc?id=0B1i1M3CmcixxQlUzQm4tRlNIRUE)
(https://drive.google.com/uc?id=0B1i1M3CmcixxVWI5MVczSmFraVE)
(https://drive.google.com/uc?id=0B1i1M3CmcixxbFZtaGFhSEpWbjQ)
(https://drive.google.com/uc?id=0B1i1M3CmcixxcHVzak1ndDljQk0)
Hi 3ciona, unfortunately those aren't showing up..... :)
Hi Darren. Thanks for the info, everything looks ok from here, I guess google drive is not the best tool for posting images.
(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w6/3ciona/1.jpg) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/3ciona/media/1.jpg.html)
(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w6/3ciona/2.jpg) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/3ciona/media/2.jpg.html)
(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w6/3ciona/3.jpg) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/3ciona/media/3.jpg.html)
(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w6/3ciona/4.jpg) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/3ciona/media/4.jpg.html)
(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w6/3ciona/5.jpg) (http://s172.photobucket.com/user/3ciona/media/5.jpg.html)
I see them now. Cracking work, btw. ;)
Hi Guys,
Started another sample script, this one being the Karn the foul eye script.
This is a rough of page one, inked out- please any comments and criticisms are more than welcome, particularly over the layout.
My last attempt on the Cycle of Violence script had the following comments from Tharg-
work on the figure drawing,
layouts were flat and constricted- and keep the angles interesting. Hopefully trying to address these problems!
Can you link to a higher resolution version @Jase?
Your figures are well proportioned but the muscles look stiff and unnatural. They're not particularly organic looking.
The angles are nice but I wonder if the centre panel really needs to be constrained to a panel? I'd probably let it bleed out across the page, particularly the bottom of the page as that's where the perspective is leading the eye.
The last panel looks a bit out of place to me. What's going on? It looks out of context, maybe because it's the only panel that doesn't have Karn in it.
Don't get me wrong, there's some fine drawing skills here from what I can see :) I really like what I can see of the ink work in the first panel.
Quote from: Jase on 03 August, 2016, 06:47:19 PM
My last attempt on the Cycle of Violence script had the following comments from Tharg-
work on the figure drawing,
layouts were flat and constricted- and keep the angles interesting. Hopefully trying to address these problems!
Hey, Jase, the first panel is a killer, man! If you manage to keep that quality throughout the whole story, you may have a winner ( though only Tharg can say that for sure). The barbarian's design is great too, almost like something you'd see in a Manowar concert :lol:
It's almost that time of the year again so this will be my attempt at boring everyone out of their minds with another Cycle of Violence try-out. It's the third time I've done this script ( I had another two attempts with PF and Karl-Four-Eye, though I never quite got to submit them) and I'm not so sure about the results... as usual.
Thoughts and criticism from this fine bunch are more than welcome.
(https://67.media.tumblr.com/195f52e63f4e5d1b34b2f45e546e3765/tumblr_ocq1xanGtp1qg930oo1_540.jpg)
I've been following this thread over the years, it's truly enlightening to see the same scripts done by different artists. I reread it from the beginning a while back and noticed a few of the pages were missing, especially the Neil Struthers Dredd pages. I contacted Neil but unfortunately he'd recently purged his Flickr account and after some digging could only find the first page.
So has anyone else got all of Neil Struthers's Dredd pages?
Quote from: MenschMaschine on 30 August, 2016, 01:43:29 PM
It's almost that time of the year again so this will be my attempt at boring everyone out of their minds with another Cycle of Violence try-out. It's the third time I've done this script ( I had another two attempts with PF and Karl-Four-Eye, though I never quite got to submit them) and I'm not so sure about the results... as usual.
Thoughts and criticism from this fine bunch are more than welcome.
(https://67.media.tumblr.com/195f52e63f4e5d1b34b2f45e546e3765/tumblr_ocq1xanGtp1qg930oo1_540.jpg)
Really good inking and detailing in the apartment. I think you could improve on the figure perspective particularly in frame 2. with the background perspective so spot on the figure work has to be spot on too. in my opinion I don't thing the gun shot works in the final frame either. by covering the outstretched arm and gun it's pretty hard to see what's going on. Your shading is great and there is a lovely energy to the whole page.
Quote from: MenschMaschine on 30 August, 2016, 01:43:29 PM
It's almost that time of the year again so this will be my attempt at boring everyone out of their minds with another Cycle of Violence try-out. It's the third time I've done this script ( I had another two attempts with PF and Karl-Four-Eye, though I never quite got to submit them) and I'm not so sure about the results... as usual.
Thoughts and criticism from this fine bunch are more than welcome.
(https://67.media.tumblr.com/195f52e63f4e5d1b34b2f45e546e3765/tumblr_ocq1xanGtp1qg930oo1_540.jpg)
Hey MM, I haven't been here for a while - I was a frequent visitor some time ago doing exactly what you are - took me 5 submissions (one of them being Cycle of Violence) and a lot of improvement over about 3 years to finally land a gig in the prog.
With regards to your work here, I would concur with Mr Denton, your biggest issue are your figures, you really need to nail the proportions and perspective. The girl in the first panel looks as though her head is floating above the floor and she should be more foreshortened as we are looking up her body from somewhere down by her feet. If you look at a figure standing square on in front of you there are around three heads down to the navel - it stands to reason that if a figures torso is foreshortened as should be the case here then that would decrease to perhaps 2 heads BUT you have 3.5 heads. Same with the second panel, you've foreshortened Dredds legs but not his arms or torso. Again with a figure square on there are around 6 heads down to just below the knee, if foreshortening this would be less but you still have six heads so his torso is too long.
On the plus your use of blacks is really nice and the page layout works nicely.
Hope that's useful. :)
Hi to everyone!
I was reading the sample scripts on the 2000ad website and then I stumbled on this page of the forum!
Lots of great pages and advice!! I gave a try at the "cycle of violence" script:
(http://65.media.tumblr.com/182d107ebfec2ec081dbc7b962d3e89e/tumblr_oes90m45o61rept5to5_1280.jpg)
(http://67.media.tumblr.com/b9912a1d93ec40c8072954c6f8c7a556/tumblr_oes90m45o61rept5to6_1280.jpg)
(http://66.media.tumblr.com/c3c94346c4c1630d34dfadcf643a0915/tumblr_oes90m45o61rept5to3_1280.jpg)
(http://65.media.tumblr.com/b33f0107bc6efd2406aa70419b7aa112/tumblr_oes90m45o61rept5to4_1280.jpg)
(http://66.media.tumblr.com/e8df5deadb8d94210970918a7954e9a1/tumblr_oes90m45o61rept5to1_1280.jpg)
(http://67.media.tumblr.com/5b42a2263d1aff54c0229d095b5ff8f5/tumblr_oes90m45o61rept5to2_1280.jpg)
Cheers from Italy!! :-)
Nico
That is a fine set of pages.
Yup, these might be the stork best sample pages I've seen in a while. Only minor quibble is the downshots looking at dredd tend to make him look less imposing than he should be - may be the result of the shot or maybe that he looks a little short. Otherwise, spectacular stuff.
I have to agree. These are some of the most accomplished pages we've seen for a long time. That's not a slam on anyone else's efforts, just an indication of the quality here. If I tried really hard, I could probably add some tiny niggles to PJ's comments, but it would be nit-picking for the sake of it. The overall package is, IMO, comfortably of a publishable standard.
Superb work, Nico.
A great first post, Nico!
Lovely pages, I'm getting a hint of Greg Staples off your work for some reason.
lovely work, Nico!
What they all said - I would get that off to Tharg post haste!
Wow, thank you!!! :-D
It's true, thank you Paul! I must exercise more on tricky angles!
I sent the pages yesterday! Fingers crossed! :-)
Terrific work Nico, wonderful pages. I got a strong David Lloyd feel from them, myself.
I'm seeing Bryan Talbot, but not Bryan Talbot at the same time...
Magnificent work, easily prog-worthy. Especially like the attention given to changes in the lawgiver!
My only suggestion would be that the interiors could be a bit more 22nd century, some futuristic kibble and furnishings about the place.
Very good.
@NicoAssirelli I love the way you've depicted facial expressions and created a clear emotional mood in each panel. Your sense of visual communication and storytelling is amazing! Amazing work, I feel I can learn a lot just from looking at your work :)
Thank you!!
Thank you TordelBack! You're right, I see it now! Also the exteriors!
Wow, thank you mightybren, I'm flattered!
Yeah really lovely pages. For the sake of offering something in the way of constructive criticism, on the first page you jump from one side of Dredd in the opening panel to the other side on the final panel - makes it jar a bit, check out the 180 Degree rule in film making, it applies to comics aswell. But as others have said that is essentially nit picking, drawing, inking, storytelling are all there, well done. :)
I hadn't thought about it! Thank you Steven! It's great advice! :)
Quote from: NicoAssirelli on 26 October, 2016, 02:15:42 AM
I hadn't thought about it! Thank you Steven! It's great advice! :)
It
sort of is good advice. The problem is that individually both panels work better composed as they are, I think. The splash panel works better in its current composition with the reader's eye 'panning' as they read left to right from perp to Dredd, and the direction of Dredd firing naturally leading the reader out of the page in the bottom panel...
Nothing more to add than what's already been said - I really, really like it, and I've seen worse actually published in the prog.
Possibly the background to Dredd on the Lawmaster on page 3 could be a tad more futuristic? It looks a bit like my local high street.
But it's way better than I could do; and I'd be surprised if Tharg didn't take you on board.
Thank you Jim!!
I was trying to get the imaginary "zigzag" which could carry the eye through the page and I thought that action from left to right was more interesting in certain dynamic scenes.
But I hadn't thought of the 180 degree rule, which must be important in dialogue scenes!
So in this cases is ok to mediate between the options :)
Thank you Jayzus! You're right! I watched the 2012 dredd and I was blown away with the movie. And the vision of the megacity and the concept art of Jock, which seemed from a closer future, striked me a lot!
But in most of the scenes, looking at the pages now, I didn't get that sci-fi feel at all :-(
Quote from: NicoAssirelli on 26 October, 2016, 03:56:52 PM
Thank you Jim!!
I was trying to get the imaginary "zigzag" which could carry the eye through the page and I thought that action from left to right was more interesting in certain dynamic scenes.
But I hadn't thought of the 180 degree rule, which must be important in dialogue scenes!
So in this cases is ok to mediate between the options :)
Thank you Jayzus! You're right! I watched the 2012 dredd and I was blown away with the movie. And the vision of the megacity and the concept art of Jock, which seemed from a closer future, striked me a lot!
But in most of the scenes, looking at the pages now, I didn't get that sci-fi feel at all :-(
The 180 rule is important for keeping a reader aware of the geography of a scene - for dialogue you want ALWAYS to have the order of the speakers to run left to right - these two things can sometimes be mutually exclusive.
In my experience breaking the 180 rule is pretty acceptable if you're doing it at moment of explosive action, in fact it may even help the panel by suddenly running counter to what's gone before (like all rules; entirely made to be broken).
In this instance I'd be inclined to keep dredd facing this way - because having the reader follow his head to his gun to the gun fire and off the page - is a great natural story telling device to keep things moving. Flipping that would stop the moment on Dredd's face and have a different effect.
If I was tempted at all to futz around with the 180 rule here, I'd be inclined to flip the big panel - but only if I was going to be strict with the rule, purely because I think it would suffer less from the flip.
It's still a great set of samples and knocks socks off my first Dredd work.
-PJ
Anyone else notice a touch of Frazer Irving about Nico's artwork? Not a bad thing. A very good thing in fact.
And it definitely does capture the movie version of MC1. Probably needs to be a bit closer to the comic version, though, which is quite different.
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 26 October, 2016, 09:18:41 PM
Anyone else notice a touch of Frazer Irving about Nico's artwork? Not a bad thing. A very good thing in fact.
Yeah defo. I avoided saying it as I often see others artists work which others don't see.So good to see in this case its not just me. Also defo no bad thing either.
Wow, thank you Paul!! These tips are gold for me! Thank you, everyone! :)
Thought I'd post my entry for the 2000AD Art Competition at Thought Bubble this year. Was lucky enough (and thrilled!) to get through to the final six. The script was 'The Timeless Assassin' by Rory McConville. I'd love any feedback/ criticism/ etc.
I love this thread, its great to see everyone's approaches to the scripts. TB was similar, it was a real eye-opener to see how everyone had handled the script. Such a huge variation in approach. Pity we only got to see page 01 of everyone's entry but I suppose time is always a hard taskmaster at these things. I thought the other entries were great, Tilen Javornik's entry was a very worthy winner, clearly the best one. Big congratulations to him, looking forward to seeing his first story in the prog.
As an aside, Thought Bubble was brilliant, met loads of great people, including a lot of my art heroes, not to mention meeting Crazyfoxmachine and Bolt-01 of this very forum. Lovely lads!
(https://65.media.tumblr.com/6aad2cb75d299ea44ed153eb89ce409f/tumblr_ogryyafv1q1utzfdko1_1280.jpg)
Aaaaaaaand the other pages...D'oh!
(https://65.media.tumblr.com/c9a217ad22bf280b5957c9e31ee85b7b/tumblr_ogryyafv1q1utzfdko2_1280.jpg)
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/d68fb404b5262bbbe7d17db15ec9aa66/tumblr_ogryyafv1q1utzfdko3_1280.jpg)
(https://67.media.tumblr.com/6234d96f2edf4ac929053c06589476ae/tumblr_ogryyafv1q1utzfdko4_1280.jpg)
Lovely work, Brian. Especially like the last two pages. ;)
Nice to see the whole thing Brian! Thanks for sharing.
This is beautiful and impressive work, I love the facial expressions and characterisation. Also the sense of detail is amazing, especially in the last two pages like Darren said. How you've kept the figure work consistent and in perspective for chaotic scenes like that is amazing! I know that's hard to do.
Beautiful detailed work there, could I ask how long it took to draw a page?
Many thanks for the kind words guys, I really appreciate it. In answer to Old Tankie, I'd say on average maybe 2 days for pencilling and inking each page, however I'm not sure exactly as the comic was drawn in bursts of activity when I had time rather than straight through. Somewhere thereabouts though. The first panel on page 04 took a lonnnnng time!
Quote from: Brian Corcoran on 17 November, 2016, 07:36:53 AM
Thought I'd post my entry for the 2000AD Art Competition at Thought Bubble this year. Was lucky enough (and thrilled!) to get through to the final six. The script was 'The Timeless Assassin' by Rory McConville. I'd love any feedback/ criticism/ etc.
I love this thread, its great to see everyone's approaches to the scripts. TB was similar, it was a real eye-opener to see how everyone had handled the script. Such a huge variation in approach. Pity we only got to see page 01 of everyone's entry but I suppose time is always a hard taskmaster at these things. I thought the other entries were great, Tilen Javornik's entry was a very worthy winner, clearly the best one. Big congratulations to him, looking forward to seeing his first story in the prog.
As an aside, Thought Bubble was brilliant, met loads of great people, including a lot of my art heroes, not to mention meeting Crazyfoxmachine and Bolt-01 of this very forum. Lovely lads!
Great stuff, I really like the lay out.
Hello here is my art of Judge Dredd cycle of violence :)
(http://thumbnails117.imagebam.com/52062/511bdf520618534.jpg) (http://www.imagebam.com/image/511bdf520618534) (http://thumbnails117.imagebam.com/52062/83886c520618542.jpg) (http://www.imagebam.com/image/83886c520618542) (http://thumbnails117.imagebam.com/52062/0b8d50520618558.jpg) (http://www.imagebam.com/image/0b8d50520618558) (http://thumbnails117.imagebam.com/52062/2f9f7e520618567.jpg) (http://www.imagebam.com/image/2f9f7e520618567) (http://thumbnails117.imagebam.com/52062/7ffb30520618576.jpg) (http://www.imagebam.com/image/7ffb30520618576) (http://thumbnails117.imagebam.com/52062/179d13520618589.jpg) (http://www.imagebam.com/image/179d13520618589)
hi there....
new to this board! found the "cycle of violence" script here and tried working from it for personal practise.
i didn't send it in or something...
i actually didn't care much for comics the last few years... but some weeks ago the old love suddenly came back.
i kinda grew up reading 2000ad comics.. so playing around with this script was a lot of fun!
any crit would be highly appreciated.
(http://68.media.tumblr.com/600acec940829d1ae341f2758be6c1b4/tumblr_om3csnGzSR1vl2ya7o3_1280.jpg)
(http://68.media.tumblr.com/e736301eb530485f66d0635c343ebf2f/tumblr_om3csnGzSR1vl2ya7o4_1280.jpg)
(http://68.media.tumblr.com/7e9a8c45de27fd86c308ca6463fa4152/tumblr_om3csnGzSR1vl2ya7o5_1280.jpg)
(http://68.media.tumblr.com/67a9c06259eff6d62e6c0b1c62d1c63c/tumblr_om3csnGzSR1vl2ya7o6_1280.jpg)
(http://68.media.tumblr.com/93b60bcd89f0dcece901563b11af3ed7/tumblr_om3csnGzSR1vl2ya7o1_1280.jpg)
(http://68.media.tumblr.com/eaebf1c7bad21176169711df782503e8/tumblr_om3csnGzSR1vl2ya7o2_1280.jpg)
if the images won't show up: http://sojustuff.tumblr.com/post/157824002131
I think it looks cool.
Some of the characters don't look quite right; Dredd on Page One, Panel 5 and the bully dunking the kid on Page Two, Panel Four.
Still, it's very almost perfect.
I'll leave it to the actual artists to give a more detailed analysis.
Karn The Foul Eye!
Been working on this attempt for a while, inbetween working away from home ..
Been agonising over certain panels! the last on page 1 and the 1st on page 2 and am going to change the last on page 1 for certain- and parts of the other.
Any advice is most welcome, I have tried twice before on the Cycle of Violence script, this is my first on the Karn-
please excuse the scans, I've had to stitch them back together in photoshop
(http://i65.tinypic.com/21nialg.jpg)
(http://i64.tinypic.com/2v2y3gh.jpg)
AAAnd page 3 of Karn, very slow going with working away from home, a little tidying up needed but here it is-
again, any suggestions/crits, advice more than welcome- cheers
(http://i63.tinypic.com/2r3bdia.jpg)
Holy moly - that looks astounding!!
I didn't know this thread existed - really stunning work on show with some brilliant insights on how people have approached these sample strips. I've been toying with having a go at one or two of these myself, but damn... I feel quite "intimidated" by what I've seen..! lol
Cycle Of Violence
Page 1
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/40744798393_15022d75a2_o.jpg)
Page 2
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/33834012498_d7bf7cd598_o.jpg)
Page 3
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/33834011418_695a93a5e3_o.jpg)
Page 4
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47711294381_e02bc28d88_o.jpg)
Page 5
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47658240482_3f57c15e0a_o.jpg)
Page 6
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47711292831_bcb5a170ca_o.jpg)
Uncle Pat's just posted this. (https://www.millsverse.com/spacewarpsf1/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=first_space_warp_story_sf1_is_now_up&utm_term=2019-04-28)
Good luck, you talented bunch!
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 28 April, 2019, 08:40:44 PM
Uncle Pat's just posted this. (https://www.millsverse.com/spacewarpsf1/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=first_space_warp_story_sf1_is_now_up&utm_term=2019-04-28)
Good luck, you talented bunch!
If Belardinelli was still with us today, he'd so be the man for the job here...
Absolutely!
I just love reading through those world bibles. Pat's lost nothing when it comes to world-building, has he?
Heck of a time getting onto his website though! Seems my phone is the only route. Pat is nothing if not a ideas machine
Quote from: Steven Denton on 27 April, 2019, 09:55:43 AM
Cycle Of Violence
Page 1
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/40744798393_15022d75a2_o.jpg)
Page 4
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47711294381_e02bc28d88_o.jpg)
My favourite pages are page one and five. On page 4 the face of the judge with water running down the helmet and with the background lost in the distance - great image!
A really solid effort overall :thumbsup:
Thanks! :D
The Judge in the rain image is one that turned out surprisingly well. overall I quite happy with my take.