This weeks Strontium Dog

[Robin Low]

Mayby not though, the Gronkinator springs to mind, who thought that was a good Idea??

I must admit that I don't remember having a problem with it at the time. Undeniably lazy of course, but ripping-off ideas from movies is hardly new.

Hrn. Having the Gronk turn into a hard-arse was bad enough, but then having him followed by a doppelgänger with built-in guns, and using stupid nods to Terminator turned the thing into a pathetic satire. SD had humour in it, but this strip was just taking the piss out of itself by that point, like much of the rest of 2000 AD.

As I say, I don't remember it bothering me at the time, even though I had previously taken a dislike to Monsters and the Norn Iron elements of Return of the Gronk. My liking for the post-Final Solution stories grew over time.

With regard to the Gronk becoming a hard-arse, I think that can be over-stated. Ultimately, the Gronk just became a functional character, or at least one that could function within the setting without passing out every five minutes.

Regards

Robin

[malkymac]

Whatever became of the Gronk in the SD storyline before final solution etc?

I remember Johnny and Wulf retired to their wee cabin on Brokeback sorry Moondog mountain and the Gronk was definitely not invited.

Did they just cruelly dump the Gronk somewhere and then run away?

[jamesedwards]

tearful words

1) I'm free to self-identify as a SD fan on whatever basis I want to, just like I'm a Wolverine fan even though I wouldn't read some Wolverine stories or even touch them with a shitty stick and

2) I'm not going to "report you" since we are not five and this is not a classroom, OK?

[Leigh S]

Whatever became of the Gronk in the SD storyline before final solution etc?

I remember Johnny and Wulf retired to their wee cabin on Brokeback sorry Moondog mountain and the Gronk was definitely not invited.

Did they just cruelly dump the Gronk somewhere and then run away?

In classic Stront, we last see the gronk in Outlaw, on the Doghouse (IIRC) just after the Gronk frees Alpha from Norman Kings clutches.  Alpha tells the Gronk to "stay there!" or such like, so I always imagined he took him a bit too literally!

[Greg M.]

Whatever became of the Gronk in the SD storyline before final solution etc?

I remember Johnny and Wulf retired to their wee cabin on Brokeback sorry Moondog mountain and the Gronk was definitely not invited.

Did they just cruelly dump the Gronk somewhere and then run away?

Pretty much, though I think his cruel abandonment happens even earlier. He's around all the time through to 'The Kid Knee Caper, but then he's not in the Malak Brood story or 'The Killing'. After that he turns up in 'Outlaw' (in which he has three heart attacks in one evening), he's not in the one with Xen the Brainwraith, and then it's the Smiley's World stories. The impression I get is that Johnny & Wulf decide the Dog's life is not for the Gronk - they pretty much tell him that in 'Outlaw' when he wants to go with them on the run. Personally, if I was moving into a remote cabin on a backwards world, I'd want a hairy gronk for those cold winter nights... but maybe that's just me. 

[Jim_Campbell]

However, before Jim gets on his high horse and starts telling me to fuck off I'd like to point out that this is just my opinion, which I acknowledge is a minority one. I'm still entitled to it though.

Jesus. People are getting offended in advance of my potential responses now? Saves time, I suppose.

However, can you point to one instance where I've told someone to fuck off on this thread? Or, indeed, where I've suggested that someone isn't entitled to their opinion? I think I've been very clear that my objection is when someone insists that their fringe opinion is grounds for dismissing a story written by the series' creator as fanfic, and comparing John Wagner to John Byrne*, because you, as a fan don't get to choose what's canon and what's not.

I look forward to you citing one actual example from this thread of the behaviour of which you're accusing me, or your apology.

Cheers

Jim

*In a purposely inflammatory tone -- we shouldn't allow Byrne's astonishing dickheadedness to blind us to his substantial contributions to US comics.

[malkymac]

Whatever became of the Gronk in the SD storyline before final solution etc?

I remember Johnny and Wulf retired to their wee cabin on Brokeback sorry Moondog mountain and the Gronk was definitely not invited.

Did they just cruelly dump the Gronk somewhere and then run away?

Pretty much, though I think his cruel abandonment happens even earlier. He's around all the time through to 'The Kid Knee Caper, but then he's not in the Malak Brood story or 'The Killing'. After that he turns up in 'Outlaw' (in which he has three heart attacks in one evening), he's not in the one with Xen the Brainwraith, and then it's the Smiley's World stories. The impression I get is that Johnny & Wulf decide the Dog's life is not for the Gronk - they pretty much tell him that in 'Outlaw' when he wants to go with them on the run. Personally, if I was moving into a remote cabin on a backwards world, I'd want a hairy gronk for those cold winter nights... but maybe that's just me. 

I was reading the old story about the Wolrogs a wee while ago and wondered just exactly how many heart attacks the poor old Gronk must have had being on the front line in that campaign what with being a combat medic.

You would think Johnny and Wulf out of common decency would have set him up somewhere nice though once they had retired rather than just abandon him (or is it her?) on the doghouse.

[jamesedwards]

Why I think it's fanfiction, in case you're interested:

1) It's wish fulfilment - the character we like gets lionised, the character we don't like gets a series of increasingly non-sequiter punishments designed to degrade him.

2) Threetits Nopersonality is a typical "Mary Sue" figure - new character, gets to talk down to the old character, good looking, respected and successful. Precious is a character with no faults which is very dull and very very fanfictiony.

3) Feral's character assassination ticks all the boxes - doesn't actually act like the character in question, is captured and subjected to a weird force-feeding thing which is unexpectedly fetishy and then mutilated and burnt alive in grotesque detail. This happens in fanfiction rather more than I think anyone would ever like. It's not a natural, logical or thematically appropriate death, bolted into the story with a weird dream logic.

4) There's absolutely no connective tissue between this story and the one it follows on from - it's published in the tenth year of a fairly inconsequential reboot/revival which was begun ten years after the death of the character. Nothing in the Final Solution is addressed beyond the death of the main character and a new Doghouse (which is as far from iconic as can be). Alpha had an ending - a bit off-beat and maybe not drawn to some people's tastes - but it was a definite and genuinely iconic ending. You can't really get past that unless you disavow it (which has been done before, by things like Battle Angel or Evangelion). Since it's a story that comes past the ending, it feels like fanfiction.

I think Alan Grant was probably a more important element in S/D than Wagner, even if the reverse is horribly, horribly true for Dredd...

[Dog Deever]

tearful words

1) I'm free to self-identify as a SD fan on whatever basis I want to, just like I'm a Wolverine fan even though I wouldn't read some Wolverine stories or even touch them with a shitty stick and

2) I'm not going to "report you" since we are not five and this is not a classroom, OK?

You are the one who was crying about being offended, not me.
You can call yourself whatever you want, it doesn't mean I have to agree with you. Report me or not- nothing would happen because I didn't do anything. No one has tried to stop you from anything, you've been free to have your say and others are free to respond, so stop whining.

[Roger Godpleton]

Why I think it's fanfiction, in case you're interested:

1) It's wish fulfilment - the character we like gets lionised, the character we don't like gets a series of increasingly non-sequiter punishments designed to degrade him.

2) Threetits Nopersonality is a typical "Mary Sue" figure - new character, gets to talk down to the old character, good looking, respected and successful. Precious is a character with no faults which is very dull and very very fanfictiony.

3) Feral's character assassination ticks all the boxes - doesn't actually act like the character in question, is captured and subjected to a weird force-feeding thing which is unexpectedly fetishy and then mutilated and burnt alive in grotesque detail. This happens in fanfiction rather more than I think anyone would ever like. It's not a natural, logical or thematically appropriate death, bolted into the story with a weird dream logic.

4) There's absolutely no connective tissue between this story and the one it follows on from - it's published in the tenth year of a fairly inconsequential reboot/revival which was begun ten years after the death of the character. Nothing in the Final Solution is addressed beyond the death of the main character and a new Doghouse (which is as far from iconic as can be). Alpha had an ending - a bit off-beat and maybe not drawn to some people's tastes - but it was a definite and genuinely iconic ending. You can't really get past that unless you disavow it (which has been done before, by things like Battle Angel or Evangelion). Since it's a story that comes past the ending, it feels like fanfiction.

I think Alan Grant was probably a more important element in S/D than Wagner, even if the reverse is horribly, horribly true for Dredd...

Dude, it's a comic.

[Trout]

Wow. I just realised I agree with Roger.

I must find my way back through the mirror!

[Jim_Campbell]

Wow. I just realised I agree with Roger.

Well, technically, you're agreeing with me, since I made this point twelve pages ago.

Cheers!

Jim

[jamesedwards]

It's a comic.

This is a message board to discuss that comic. People do it all over the internet. Funny thing, that.

[Mark Taylor]

Okay I'm getting ready to leave this afternoon but since my prog arrived early I took the time to read it and since I took the time to read it I'm going to take the time to post.

If you haven't read it I have to say a great big SPOILER ALERT:

[spoiler]So... Johnny isn't actually dead, but it's clear from the artwork that his eyes are gone, so that part was true enough. No death means no ressurection as such, and no ressurection most likely means Johnny doesn't get his eyes back. Okay, he can get cybernetic eyes easily enough I'm sure (like Dredd?)... but without his own eyes Johnny's basically normal. His eyes were his only real mutant feature. Remember the following thread?...[/spoiler]

[spoiler]http://www.2000adonline.com/forum/index.php/topic,26764.msg468019.html#msg468019.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]Looks like JW might actually being doing something along the lines of what I suggested back then. Would that give me mutant-like powers of prescience?[/spoiler]

[Tweak72]

Why I think it's fanfiction, in case you're interested:

1) It's wish fulfilment - the character we like gets lionised, the character we don't like gets a series of increasingly non-sequiter punishments designed to degrade him.

2) Threetits Nopersonality is a typical "Mary Sue" figure - new character, gets to talk down to the old character, good looking, respected and successful. Precious is a character with no faults which is very dull and very very fanfictiony.

3) Feral's character assassination ticks all the boxes - doesn't actually act like the character in question, is captured and subjected to a weird force-feeding thing which is unexpectedly fetishy and then mutilated and burnt alive in grotesque detail. This happens in fanfiction rather more than I think anyone would ever like. It's not a natural, logical or thematically appropriate death, bolted into the story with a weird dream logic.

4) There's absolutely no connective tissue between this story and the one it follows on from - it's published in the tenth year of a fairly inconsequential reboot/revival which was begun ten years after the death of the character. Nothing in the Final Solution is addressed beyond the death of the main character and a new Doghouse (which is as far from iconic as can be). Alpha had an ending - a bit off-beat and maybe not drawn to some people's tastes - but it was a definite and genuinely iconic ending. You can't really get past that unless you disavow it (which has been done before, by things like Battle Angel or Evangelion). Since it's a story that comes past the ending, it feels like fanfiction.

I think Alan Grant was probably a more important element in S/D than Wagner, even if the reverse is horribly, horribly true for Dredd...

I am inclined to agree. As I have already said most of the new SD stories of recent years IMO have been Luke warm and  bit lack luster.

The Death of Feral does smack of pandering to the majority of fans. From the forced feeding to he cutting off of his nose and the spearing with flame does go a long way to appease those who thought badly of Feral and his associated stories.

And I again say that I would have expected better of Mr Wagner, who could have done a more epic and interesting reboot than a 3 breasted woman and drunk lumpy man wonder about a bit, find bloke no one likes, who dies in a hideous manner, much to every ones satisfaction and its OK because the main guy is not really dead.