This weeks Strontium Dog

[Richmond Clements]

And I again say that I would have expected better of Mr Wagner, who could have done a more epic and interesting reboot than a 3 breasted woman and drunk lumpy man wonder about a bit, find bloke no one likes, who dies in a hideous manner, much to every ones satisfaction and its OK because the main guy is not really dead.

I'd be more inclined to agree with you if this was the story I'd actually read.

What did you think of, say Origins, for example? Or was that 'Old guy sits at campfire and talks about when he were a nipper then meets some of his cousins'?

[Tweak72]

And I again say that I would have expected better of Mr Wagner, who could have done a more epic and interesting reboot than a 3 breasted woman and drunk lumpy man wonder about a bit, find bloke no one likes, who dies in a hideous manner, much to every ones satisfaction and its OK because the main guy is not really dead.

I'd be more inclined to agree with you if this was the story I'd actually read.

What did you think of, say Origins, for example? Or was that 'Old guy sits at campfire and talks about when he were a nipper then meets some of his cousins'?

LOL! I have boiled it down some due to the fact that, for me, there is very little meat on the bones of this story. Precious personality is a bit two dimensional IMO and the extra boob does nothing to compensate that. Middenface and his drunken binges I have also found a bit dull. There have also, for me, been some quite tenuous plot devices like Johnny being famous to the people who are holding Feral.

I would have rather if there is going to be a reboot, then Middenface, drunk and bitter at the loss of his pals does a quick time jump back to the No Go Job and pop a cap in Brother Sagan and tell Johnny about "The Future" before fading away. History changes, Johnny goes and punches a Teenage Feral in the nose and saves the day.

Job Done. Nothing to see here. New Stont stories here we come. Every one cheers.

To be fair I felt that SD was being a little dull way back when. I remember at the time being a bit disappointed by The Rammy and Stone Killers. 

[Richmond Clements]

I would have rather if there is going to be a reboot, then Middenface, drunk and bitter at the loss of his pals does a quick time jump back to the No Go Job and pop a cap in Brother Sagan and tell Johnny about "The Future" before fading away. History changes, Johnny goes and punches a Teenage Feral in the nose and saves the day.

Trouble is, that wouldn't work. That's not how time travel works in the SD Universe.

[Tweak72]

Trouble is, that wouldn't work. That's not how time travel works in the SD Universe.

Oh, I know that It was a way of saying if your going to ret con why not just pick up the story from a point before it is considered to have gone wrong and go from there? I would have rather that then the current story which I am not enjoying.

[IndigoPrime]

With regard to the Gronk becoming a hard-arse, I think that can be over-stated. Ultimately, the Gronk just became a functional character, or at least one that could function within the setting without passing out every five minutes.

The fainting thing irked, but the Gronk's transformation didn't sit right with me; seemed like if Mrs. Gunderson got smacked on the noggin and could suddenly see and have a desire to brandish high-powered weaponry.

On the Gronk in general, didn't he just take up a position on the Doghouse, being a general 'medic' of sorts, rather than Alpha's? Maybe I'm misremembering.

[Robin Low]

With regard to the Gronk becoming a hard-arse, I think that can be over-stated. Ultimately, the Gronk just became a functional character, or at least one that could function within the setting without passing out every five minutes.

The fainting thing irked, but the Gronk's transformation didn't sit right with me; seemed like if Mrs. Gunderson got smacked on the noggin and could suddenly see and have a desire to brandish high-powered weaponry.

On the Gronk in general, didn't he just take up a position on the Doghouse, being a general 'medic' of sorts, rather than Alpha's? Maybe I'm misremembering.

I think you might be right about him becoming a medic in the Doghouse, but I have a vague memory of that being something Ennis wrote at the start of Return of the Gronk.

With regard to the Gronk's sudden transformation, well, he wasn't a normal Gronk to begin with. He did have a stronger constitution than the rest of his kind and he had been exposed to violence, physical trauma and projectile weaponary. After his initial anger, he did actually settle down into being a furry little alien, albeit one who could handle himself.

More generally, I don't want to pretend that the Ennis and Hogan era is perfect. From what Dave Bishop has said Hogan's writing and storytelling were rather weak prior to editorial, and Ennis' contribution shows his immaturity. And as for the way the stories were published, there's no doubt that was a mess.

Nevertheless, what emerged was a setting and characters that more or less fit with what had gone before, was pretty interesting, and was ripe for further development. I've not read episode ten of Life and Death yet, but what's bothered me most about the series so far is that I think that pretty much the same story could have been told while also embracing Ennis and Hogan's stories.

Regards

Robin

[jamesedwards]

And I again say that I would have expected better of Mr Wagner, who could have done a more epic and interesting reboot than a 3 breasted woman and drunk lumpy man wonder about a bit, find bloke no one likes, who dies in a hideous manner, much to every ones satisfaction and its OK because the main guy is not really dead.

I'd be more inclined to agree with you if this was the story I'd actually read.

What did you think of, say Origins, for example? Or was that 'Old guy sits at campfire and talks about when he were a nipper then meets some of his cousins'?

If Origins had solely consisted of Dredd going around the Cursed Earth a bit without much happening followed by a trip to the planet of people with no bums! (it's a hilarious joke! ha ha!) to watch Janus: PSI get broiled alive then sold as fucking pies before going to another weird planet and digging up the original Judge Giant (who was in a magic space judge coma all this time) you might have the point. It wasn't. It was an actual story.

[Leigh S]

And I again say that I would have expected better of Mr Wagner, who could have done a more epic and interesting reboot than a 3 breasted woman and drunk lumpy man wonder about a bit, find bloke no one likes, who dies in a hideous manner, much to every ones satisfaction and its OK because the main guy is not really dead.

I'd be more inclined to agree with you if this was the story I'd actually read.

What did you think of, say Origins, for example? Or was that 'Old guy sits at campfire and talks about when he were a nipper then meets some of his cousins'?

If Origins had solely consisted of Dredd going around the Cursed Earth a bit without much happening followed by a trip to the planet of people with no bums! (it's a hilarious joke! ha ha!) to watch Janus: PSI get broiled alive then sold as fucking pies before going to another weird planet and digging up the original Judge Giant (who was in a magic space judge coma all this time) you might have the point. It wasn't. It was an actual story.

Or even the village of people with big chins to find the body of previously dead Judge Fargo in conventinent magic coma?

[House of Usher]

a trip to the planet of people with no bums to watch Janus: PSI get broiled alive then sold as fucking pies.

Yes please! I don't think Judge Janus was exploited to the character's full potential. This would do nicely.

[jamesedwards]

Touche.

The mutant Fargos aren't quite the same though, nor was bringing back Chief Fargo...

[Paul faplad Finch]

However, before Jim gets on his high horse and starts telling me to fuck off I'd like to point out that this is just my opinion, which I acknowledge is a minority one. I'm still entitled to it though.

Jesus. People are getting offended in advance of my potential responses now? Saves time, I suppose.

However, can you point to one instance where I've told someone to fuck off on this thread? Or, indeed, where I've suggested that someone isn't entitled to their opinion? I think I've been very clear that my objection is when someone insists that their fringe opinion is grounds for dismissing a story written by the series' creator as fanfic, and comparing John Wagner to John Byrne*, because you, as a fan don't get to choose what's canon and what's not.

I look forward to you citing one actual example from this thread of the behaviour of which you're accusing me, or your apology.

Right, difficult one this.  

First off, my reference to you telling me to fuck off was not intended as a slight on you when I wrote it. It amuses me that you tell people to Fuck off on a regular basis - yes, often as a joke, I know - and this was intended to be a jokey reference to the fact that I knew you probably wouldn't agree with my opinion. So as far as that goes, I apologise for the misunderstanding.

I should say though that your abruptness often comes across as nastiness to me and you do have a habit of being very curt and dismissive with people whose opinions, or posting matter, you disagree with. Which is entirely your right. It has irked me sometimes, which is entirely my right, to the extent that you are the only person on the board I've ever contemplated using the ignore button with.

So last night, after I posted my jokey comment, I got to stewing a bit (I was in a bit of a funny mood) and actually did press the ignore button on you. Then today when I logged on I realised that I had been a bit of a tit for doing that and promptly unignored you, because I don't want to start going down the route of ignoring anyone. Which is why I've just now spotted the quoted message.

Of course, you may not see this message because I seem to have picked up an ignorer of my own in the meantime and if it's not you it's a bit of a coincidence. But there you go, thats what happened.

We'll have to agree to disagree about SD though.

[Paul faplad Finch]

Sorry for the double post but I wanted my response to Jim to stand on it's own. Jut like to say that I could stand to read a few more Janus stories. What we got wasn't great but it had potential. I know it'll never haappen but she was never killed off or anything was she?

[Jim_Campbell]

We'll have to agree to disagree about SD though.

Oh, fuck off.

:-P

Cheers!

Jim

[Leigh S]

Touche.

The mutant Fargos aren't quite the same though, nor was bringing back Chief Fargo...

Truem, but neither is the starting point. Origins starting point is many years of solid continuity.  LaDoJA has to contend with a story that magically dissolved the lead character in another dimension and lead to years of meandering stories that really didnt do much for me but signify what a mistake it was to give the characters world to other writers.  

I think Wagners taken the theme of scarifice from the FS, and laced it all the way through this, so that for me (who was pretty dubious about trying to retcon FS for the kind of reasons youve suggested) this has exceeded my expectations.

This is a necessary story for the creators to reclaim their creation from the hands of others who, frankly, left them no other choice.  Is it the greatest Stront story? - so far, no, and with only one part to go, it'd take some doing.  But it feels like Stront in a way none of the stories it is replacing does.  You mightnt like that old school place, but having reread the Final Solution recently, this story actually follows on really really well from it - picking up the theme as I say, and, unless you are a fan of Feral, doing he minimum "damage" to the DogS era that frankly, I'd have torn up and put in the bin with a single sentence if I'd been in Mr Wagners shoes. which only goes to show what a top class Gent he is.  You can read a dig into his portrayal of Feral and his Ho Gan ref, but how much more dismissive to not even try to put them into the narrative?

[Trout]

Tweak, how can anyone fail to like The Rammy?