The Political Thread

[Professor Bear]

Thank God the LibDems are going to stop Brexit when Jo Swinson becomes PM.

[IndigoPrime]

They're above Labour in some polls now, which showcases what a massive shitshow the Labour conference has been. It also neatly highlights the disaster that is FPTP. That particular poll has the Tories on a chunky majority with a fraction over a third of the vote (34%), and the Lib Dems winning half as many seats as Labour, despite getting 23% of the vote compared to 21. (Of course, the Lib Dems and Labour combined under any sane system would, on 45%, have way more seats than the Tories. THANKS, TONY BLAIR AND YOUR CABINET! You really fucked us on that one.)

[Professor Bear]

Hey remember that time Johnson was caught on camera deliberately avoiding shaking the hands of black people?  Well, I guess it was so long ago that I can understand why the media don't bring it up anymore.
Prime Minister Swinson won't make that mistake, let me tell you.

[Tjm86]

Politicians do tend to set a low bar for competence, but if there was ever a more stupifyingly vapid collection of dishonest charlatans shoehorned into a cabinet, I didn't hear about it.

Shoehorned into anywhere?  Ever?  In human history?  In any dimension?

[Dandontdare]

Politicians do tend to set a low bar for competence, but if there was ever a more stupifyingly vapid collection of dishonest charlatans shoehorned into a cabinet, I didn't hear about it.

Shoehorned into anywhere?  Ever?  In human history?  In any dimension?

If it doesn't contain Chris Grayling and Grant Shapps, it's not going to take the Incompetence Gold, although the Truss/Williamson/Leadsom axis have shown some good form in the early rounds.


Oh fuck, just realised that Shapps is in there - yeah, give them the medal.They've even got Javid and Hancock on the bench, we haven't seen a fraction of the shambles they can create (yet).

Although it won't be long before the PM sweeps the medal table in the finals.

[Dandontdare]

Politicians do tend to set a low bar for competence, but if there was ever a more stupifyingly vapid collection of dishonest charlatans shoehorned into a cabinet, I didn't hear about it.

Shoehorned into anywhere?  Ever?  In human history?  In any dimension?

If it doesn't contain Chris Grayling and Grant Shapps, it's not going to take the Incompetence Gold, although the Truss/Williamson/Leadsom axis have shown some good form in the early rounds.


Oh fuck, just realised that Shapps is in there - yeah, give them the medal. They've even got Javid and Hancock on the bench, we haven't seen a fraction of the shambles they can create (yet).

Although it won't be long before the PM sweeps the medal table in the finals.

[Professor Bear]

They're still leading in the polls, so everyone on this thread is wrong and the Tories are doing a good job and are well-loved.

[Hawkmumbler]

"I trst Boris 2k19"

-Some guys called Dave probably, has his dog as his FB icon, still has a poppy filter on.

[Funt Solo]

I saw a piece on Channel 4 News where they were interviewing a woman who runs a business trading locally caught seafood. Her main markets were on the continent, the seafood was caught by British fishermen.

Her trading license is European, and come Brexit, is expected to be revoked: leaving an entire segment of her town with a sudden lack of a well-established market. She agreed there was no clear path to carrying on trading, and that her business, and that of the local fishermen, would take a massive hit.

When asked what she thought of Brexit, she said she had voted for it and still supported it because of "her children's future".

What does that even mean, though? Does she think that they'll be better of economically even though she's facing economic disaster? Is it something else? Is it to do with white supremacy?  (I know that might be a leap: but I'm trying to follow her logic.)

I suppose that brings the wider question: with only a few elites set to profit massively from a shite pound, why is Brexit such a popular idea?

[radiator]

why is Brexit such a popular idea?

Why is Trump so popular*? It all really comes down to the same motivation. They like Brexit (and Trump) primarily because it's exactly what the 'other side' don't want.

It's a protest vote, and it isn't about gaining anything tangible - pretty much every single argument that the UK will be better off post-Brexit have now fallen away, and the only thing left powering the drive for it is spite, and a desire to stick it to the establishment. Much like Trump's border wall, it's just a giant monument to resentment more than anything practical or useful. I've heard all the arguments, I've read all the analysis, and that's the conclusion I have come to. The more rational, sensible people try to explain why it's a bad idea, the more entrenched those in favour of it become, and I don't really see a way out of it.

*I acknowledge that he isn't broadly popular, but much like supporters of Brexit, the people that like him have a cult-like devotion to him.

[Frank]

When asked what she thought of Brexit, she said she had voted for it and still supported it because of "her children's future". What does that even mean, though?

LEAVE and REMAIN are belief systems now.

Her faith - and ours, if we're honest - isn't subject to challenge by facts or evidence. We all do that confirmation bias thing of seizing upon news that supports our existing bias and ignoring anything that should be cause for doubt or confusion.

Which is why, however this shakes out, we're doomed to tribal division and rehearsing the same arguments for the next thirty years or so. Brexit is God's way of making the British finally understand what went wrong in Northern Ireland.

[Funt Solo]

Ah now, I don't buy that about myself. If it stacked up that there was evidence that leaving the EU was the most profitable course, I'd have to listen to that. I'm an evidence-based sort of person. I just haven't heard the persuasive evidence, or any evidence, that it's a good idea. Plenty in the other direction. I'm not into faith.

[Frank]

Ah now, I don't buy that about myself.

Okay, but everyone else on both sides imagines themselves a rational, impartial arbiter who has soberly assessed the evidence, too.

No honest person - even the experts, who we've all had quite enough of - can plausibly claim to understand the infinite variables and branching domino rallies of cause and effect of something so complex and without precedent.

Brexit's a coin-toss, which is why the result was basically 50/50. Nobody knew what to do for the best, so we went with our gut instincts. And now - because the situation's no clearer than it was before - we're doubling down on that coin flip.

[radiator]

Ah now, I don't buy that about myself. If it stacked up that there was evidence that leaving the EU was the most profitable course, I'd have to listen to that. I'm an evidence-based sort of person. I just haven't heard the persuasive evidence, or any evidence, that it's a good idea. Plenty in the other direction. I'm not into faith.

I'm with you. I'm fully aware of my own bias - and that's why I make a point of reading/listening to a huge variety of sources all across the political spectrum. Hell, I even occasionally read Fox News/Daily Mail articles. I try to be as open as I can be to radically different opinions, and occasionally I do read or hear something that challenges my prejudices.

There is a semi-coherent left-wing case in favour of Brexit (often called 'Lexit'*) but to me it all seems rather fanciful (the idea that the EU is all that prevent s the UK from becoming a socialist utopia for example) and it's abundantly clear that the whole Brexit thing is primarily a project of the far right, and as such should be opposed at any cost. I mean Jesus, you only really have to look at who is lining up to champion it.

*This podcast is an interesting listen. It's certainly a different pro-Leave take to the one we usually hear: https://soundcloud.com/chapo-trap-house/bonus-this-is-where-i-leave-eu

Okay, but everyone else on both sides imagines themselves a rational, impartial arbiter who has soberly assessed the evidence, too.

They really don't, though. Many on the pro-Brexit side are gleefully ignorant. You only have to look at how the pro-Brexit argument has changed and been reframed since the referendum, from a tone of optimism 'we'll get a great deal'/'we'll be better off' to now, where all of that has been abandoned and people are genuinely saying things like 'it won't be the end of the world' and invoking the 'Blitz spirit'.

I have heard so few rational, reasoned arguments in favour of Brexit, and I have gone out of my way to look for them. Usually all you'll get are the same old empty Nationalistic slogans, and that's why I find it quite unsettling.

It's also incredibly frightening and upsetting how the arch pro-Brexit camp has shifted to this shockingly laisse faire attitude about the integrity of the union of the United Kingdom and seem perfectly happy to throw it under the bus in pursuit of Brexit, which would have been unthinkable even 5 years ago.

[JayzusB.Christ]

Brexit's a coin-toss, which is why the result was basically 50/50. Nobody knew what to do for the best, so we went with our gut instincts. And now - because the situation's no clearer than it was before - we're doubling down on that coin flip.

Can't really agree with that either. Obviously nobody could say for sure what would happen, but plenty of people had a fair idea that leaving would be incredibly messy and would most likely lead to financial difficulties to say the least.  the information p to p