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The Writers' Block

Started by The Legendary Shark, 21 November, 2014, 09:26:25 AM

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Definitely Not Mister Pops

I don't think any apologies are necessary Shark. If anyone was genuinely offended by those examples, I can only suggest they go hide under their duvet and never come out, for the world is just too scary and mean.
You may quote me on that.

Conceptulist

I'm interested. when you guys plan your story, do you write anything down or do you just obsess about the story and construct it in your mind? Because I've been doing the second option, and so far I've found it to be amazingly interesting and dynamic, but I've always wondered if writing down a plan helps (of course, I mean the entire plan, not, like for example, the outline of the panels or character backstory/personality attributes).
'Beasts and ghouls have always plagued our nightmares, but it is our own insecurities and failures that truly horrify us.'

The Legendary Shark

It's a mixture with me. Thoughts and ideas then I make notes to pin the ideas down. My notes are generally quite rough with lots of crossings out and structural arrows and whatnot. There are more ideas in the notes than make it into the scripts but that's one of the strengths of planning: it's better to discard the surplus before you start otherwise you can waste a lot of time either trying to shoehorn too much in or wrestling with ideas and threads that go nowhere.
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I'm sure other writers have their own ways but this is what works for me. Robert McKee's Hollywood scriptwriting courses are excellent for learning how to plan and construct movie scripts and easily adaptable to comic scripting.
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Conceptulist

I do a similar thing with the actual comic panels. I build up an image from planning the structure and their possible meanings or purposes (e.g. to build tension or to show that an individual is doing a hopeless task), then I try to fit it all into four pages by using one or two words to keep the image fresh in my mind. It's still a shame some of the surplus has to go sometimes through. One of my recent scripts featured a black hole, and I wanted to include the concept of time dilation and some basic scientific equations, but I had to cut them out due to space consummation.

So is this course a physical course or an electronic course? Because I would love to learn more about script construction.
'Beasts and ghouls have always plagued our nightmares, but it is our own insecurities and failures that truly horrify us.'

The Legendary Shark

I downloaded the audio cd "Robert McKee, Story" from somewhere (*ahem*) and listen to it from time to time. Lots of insights in there.
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The thing about cutting stuff out for me is that it doesn't have to be wasted. All those ideas are like clay and can be re-used in one way or another.
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Conceptulist

I shall have to search for it some time.

I see. so, do you apply this concept in a similar situation or do you merely use the concept and apply it in a different circumstance?
'Beasts and ghouls have always plagued our nightmares, but it is our own insecurities and failures that truly horrify us.'

The Legendary Shark

I tend to use it most of the time. Only rarely does a story enter my head fully formed.
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Conceptulist

really? most of the time ideas just pop into my head randomly, some bad and some with potential. I've got to say through, writing the script and finalising an idea feels amazing. This week alone I've created two separate scripts, which are both just at the end of being drafted into an acceptable piece (I'll properly go back and edit them from time to time, however).

Whilst I've got a pro's attention, could I ask a few questions?
'Beasts and ghouls have always plagued our nightmares, but it is our own insecurities and failures that truly horrify us.'

The Legendary Shark

Er, I'm not a pro - far from it - many apologies if I gave that impression. I'm just a run-of-the-mill amateur who gets lucky in the small press from time to time. There are some talented pros about, though, such as GRennie, who may be better placed to answer your questions.
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Still, ask away - you never know who's reading this!
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Conceptulist

What's the extent of 2000AD's explicit content? (mostly concerning gore)
Do you know of any small press publishers that allow a script to be sent, instead of a full blown drawn comic? (so far I've only found 2000AD and timebomb, but timebomb's submission email seems to dislike being emailed)
Do you have any advice on creating realistic and personal dialogue?
Should I include the literary devices used In the script?
Sorry about the overwhelming amount of questions, it's just I'm extremely curious. 
'Beasts and ghouls have always plagued our nightmares, but it is our own insecurities and failures that truly horrify us.'

GordonR

#70
QuoteWhat's the extent of 2000AD's explicit content? (mostly concerning gore)

Okay, this kind of suggests to me that you don't actually read the comic, which isn't a good way to start out wanting to write for it.  Read a bunch of recent stories and judge for yourself where the gore line lies.

QuoteDo you know of any small press publishers that allow a script to be sent, instead of a full blown drawn comic? (so far I've only found 2000AD and timebomb, but timebomb's submission email seems to dislike being emailed)/
Quote

I've never heard of Timebomb, but 2000AD most definitely isn't small press.  Small press means essentially produced by amateurs for non-profit, neither of which applies to 2000AD.  Again, I'm wondering if you know enough about the market you want to sell work to.

QuoteShould I include the literary devices used In the script?

Dear god, NO. On absolutely no account do that. The quality of your script should be apparent in itself, not in an appended list of all the clever devices you think you've used in it.  There are plenty of various people's scripts available online. Have a look at them and see how it's done.

The Legendary Shark

Mr R. speaks the truth.
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In my view, the secret of a good script is brevity - and brevity takes time. You have to take out every superfluous word. Look for some of John Wagner's scripts. A panel description can be as short as "Dredd riding his Lawmaster," or even shorter. You have to trust the artist to know what that looks like.
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A tip for writing good dialogue is to speak it out loud yourself to see if it sounds "real." The advice show don't tell also applies. For example, if you want to get across that Hank has been Marvyn's friend since school and is a scruffy git don't write something like, "hi, Marvyn, we've been pals now for twenty years, since we first met at Bog-End Secondary School in 1995, are you ever gonna' buy a new shirt because you look very scruffy." Instead, write something like, "Jeez, Marvyn, are you ever gonna' smarten yourself up? I swear you wore that same old shirt back in high school." Or something. In other words, don't have characters telling each other things they already know. Rather, take what they know and use it to fuel dialogue instead. Turn exposition into ammunition, as it were.
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hippynumber1

Shark, I hope you don't mind if I put this here? Please ask mods to delete if you feel it's out of place.

I'm currently at the point where my first novel is almost ready to go to agents, publishers and, probably, the self-publishing kindle platform on Amazon (while I try to generate a 'buzz' around it). I've had some positive feedback from my editor, proof-readers and test audience. I've also had some incredibly positive feedback and advice from a published author who has been known to write for our beloved prog from time to time but I now need to start promoting and creating an 'on-line presence' if I stand a chance of getting this thing in print.

To that end I have a dedicated FB page here: https://www.facebook.com/mark.spencerwriter?ref=ts&fref=ts and a Twitter account under @MSpencer_writer. Come and join me in my struggle towards publication, everyone is welcome, or just come along to laugh and point, I need the publicity!

Cheers.

Mark

Conceptulist

Quote from: GordonR on 22 December, 2015, 03:07:03 AM
QuoteWhat's the extent of 2000AD's explicit content? (mostly concerning gore)

Okay, this kind of suggests to me that you don't actually read the comic, which isn't a good way to start out wanting to write for it.  Read a bunch of recent stories and judge for yourself where the gore line lies.

I've never heard of Timebomb, but 2000AD most definitely isn't small press.  Small press means essentially produced by amateurs for non-profit, neither of which applies to 2000AD.  Again, I'm wondering if you know enough about the market you want to sell work to.

It's true, I haven't read any modern future shockers (due to the fact I'm trying to understand the dredd universe through the omnibuses/collections before reading any modern story arcs), however I have read multiple older future shockers (Through, yet again, graphic novels), but I understand this doesn't excuse me for not reading any modern future shocks. Of course, if you think the older story arcs don't affect the modern dredd universe as much as I've inferred, I'll dive head first with an unquenchable thirst. Or even if there's a list of monumental stories that affect the dredd universe, I'll happily devour the issues.

This is also why I question the extent of explicit content because I find some of my scripts can usually get quite horrific (however, I mostly aim these at other publishers), and I wanted a clear line of what I should omit, craftily hint or avoid. Pretty much, I'm trying to find a set of arbitrary rules I can enforce upon myself.

I would also like to mention I only included 2000AD in the list because it was much simpler then displacing them into their own list.

I would like to apologise if this came across as rude or if anything was misspelled, as I am incredible tired and also didn't mean to offend those with a greater experience. I would also like to thank you for your input.

'Beasts and ghouls have always plagued our nightmares, but it is our own insecurities and failures that truly horrify us.'

Conceptulist

Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 22 December, 2015, 09:15:00 AM
Mr R. speaks the truth.
.
In my view, the secret of a good script is brevity - and brevity takes time. You have to take out every superfluous word. Look for some of John Wagner's scripts. A panel description can be as short as "Dredd riding his Lawmaster," or even shorter. You have to trust the artist to know what that looks like.
.
A tip for writing good dialogue is to speak it out loud yourself to see if it sounds "real." The advice show don't tell also applies. For example, if you want to get across that Hank has been Marvyn's friend since school and is a scruffy git don't write something like, "hi, Marvyn, we've been pals now for twenty years, since we first met at Bog-End Secondary School in 1995, are you ever gonna' buy a new shirt because you look very scruffy." Instead, write something like, "Jeez, Marvyn, are you ever gonna' smarten yourself up? I swear you wore that same old shirt back in high school." Or something. In other words, don't have characters telling each other things they already know. Rather, take what they know and use it to fuel dialogue instead. Turn exposition into ammunition, as it were.

I see, so I should always keep it simple, and stop making descriptions in a novelised style, and instead I should simplify my work. I've got to tell you, I've always felt like my descriptions were inferior and lacking detail, hence I used to either recreate the scene in my mind with painstaking detail or I would conclude that I was an idiot who couldn't effectively inspire interesting and abstract imagery. But this does seem logical, as each sample script has quite simplified language.

I usually try to speak out dialogue (usually with embarrassing attempts at the character's voice) to find a reason why it doesn't seem to feel realistic, but then again I've always been a stickler for realistic dialogue.
So if, for example, I was to hint the protagonist's motivation(s) and goal(s) through 'ammunition' dialogue, should i trust the reader to infer the true meaning (as I usually try to do) or should I make it more simpler, so that the reader isn't confused, through secondary 'ammunition' dialogue from a different character?

Also, thank you for the further information on the script construction.
'Beasts and ghouls have always plagued our nightmares, but it is our own insecurities and failures that truly horrify us.'