Nintendo SNES Mini

[SIP]

But....... I wish ps4 would put the other two super star wars games up for sale. I enjoyed playing through the first one again on ps4 with the unlimited saves that curbed the frustration of the original snes game. Make super empire!

[JamesC]

Cube and Wii Mario Karts are the worst ones!

I think retro games on the whole are a very different experience to modern games with, for the most part, a very different focus. There's much more emphasis on arcade fun, repetition and pattern learning and far less emphasis on narrative and world building. RPGs are the exceptions (but I never really played them).

[SIP]

Cube and Wii Mario Karts are the worst ones!

NNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

One of the few "retro games*" I have actually had countless hours of fun with my kids is Wii Mario Kart. It's absolutely great!

Snes Mario Kart by contrast is an overly busy mode 7 mess that they wouldn't entertain for more than a couple of minutes. F zero made the action full screen and didn't over clutter. The payoff was it was single player.

*though I'm not sure if Wii really counts as retro.....games such as mario galaxy look like they could be released next week and still do well in competition with other current games.

[SIP]

There's much more emphasis on arcade fun, repetition and pattern learning and far less emphasis on narrative and world building.

Which I think is where the nostalgia kicks in. Not many kids would agree with us that "repetition and pattern learning" really sound like much fun.

Old games were difficult because they were either really short, or just repeated the same thing over and over with perhaps varying attack patterns or speed. New games are more sophisticated, game players are more sophisticated. If this stuff would still sell then they would just re package it. Truth is modern gamers would just think it was rubbish.

I'm guessing Nintendo is making these things in limited numbers as it is only catering to people over 40. Super star wars did not sell well on the ps4 - that's why there will be no super empire.

[SIP]

I sit here writing with a wired up snes only 6 feet away. It's been set up for the last few weeks (when I got the nostalgia bug and got it out of the cupboard). I played it for maybe an hour, the kids had a quick go. In those 3 weeks they didn't come back to it once....but I can't get them off their 3ds consoles. I couldnt sell them on zelda, mana, probotector, ghouls n ghosts, Yoshi, street fighter, mario or the adventures of batman and robin.

If the games are so great then why aren't they interested? Same reason they aren't as mesmerised by films I would have thought incredible back in the 1980s - they were good for the time, but by modern standards, it all just looks a little creaky.

[JamesC]

I suppose it partly comes down to what you're used to and what you expect. If you pick up Ghouls n Ghosts ad expect it to be a similar experience to some modern 3D game you're going to be disappointed.
That's no reflection on the game itself though, it's just that the player hasn't got what they expected.
The comparison with films is interesting. I used to enjoy watching old films when I was a kid - particularly old black and white B movies or anything with stop motion monsters. Most of my friends thought they were crap though - old and boring compared to modern films. Fair enough I suppose, but I always thought they were missing out.
People often comment that retro games can't compete because they're short and unsophisticated. I find it hard to understand that criticism. You have to appreciate the old style games on their own terms. If I play a Speccy game, I'll probably play through for 20 or 30 mins before switching to another game. But that's fine, that's how I always played those games (probably informed by my time in arcades going from game to game with a credit or two in each). I don't know why that short burst of fun is somehow less legitimate than a 2 hour session on Skyrim.

[radiator]

Not many kids would agree with us that "repetition and pattern learning" really sound like much fun.

What is Call of Duty if not repetitive?

Broadly, I agree - I think retrogaming is mostly about nostalgia. I think the vast majority of old games don't hold up. But I also think - as with movies - there are a handful of titles that are genuinely timeless - and a good deal of them are in this 21 game bundle.

You won't find many Metroid fans who rank any of the subsequent 2D games above Super Metroid. I personally think there hasn't been a 2D Mario title since Super Mario World that can hold a candle to it. I like some films that I know objectively are not well made purely because of how much I loved them when I was a kid. Plenty of games too. And I think I'm perfectly capable of discerning how much nostalgia is playing a part in my enjoyment of them and how much is down to clever design and brilliant art direction.

If this stuff would still sell then they would just re package it.

Which they do. Constantly. Especially Nintendo, who understand the quality of their back catalogue. As a counter to your example, a colleague of mine is currently playing through Super Metroid and loving it. He had barely been born when it was released and has no nostalgia for the 16 bit era.

[Satanist]

Fucking raging at this pre-order bullshit. Signed on with Nintendo for notification, don't get one and then its sold out in 15 mins.

Its almost as if they would rather I just pirate the stuff.

Oh and Mario Kart on snes is the best thanks to the feather jump.

[SIP]

I think I may be guilty of poorly articulating my opinion here.

I love old computer games, no games of the last 10-15 years have held the same wonderment or joy than the endless days I tried to save Eris from Damocles, or impressed me as much as the animated intro to Shadow of the Beast 2. I sat, literally, for 12 hours straight each time playing ikari warriors, midnight resistance and golden axe with my brothers. Street fighter 2 took up an entire Christmas holiday. I get it. I'm a man with an unhealthy level of nostalgia. I won't part with a single one of my 1978 Kenner Star wars figures.....they are the greatest toys i ever had, but I won't kid myself that the quality of modern toys isn't infinitely superior.

Put some modern children in front of these games and at best they will get some VERY short lived moderate amusement. There are exceptions of course, my son loves Turrican 2 and super ghouls and ghosts, as i pointed out earlier some of the side scrolling stuff (such as metroid) fair better, but in the main the overwhelming response is "meh".

These games were state of the art when we originally played them, but the vast majority, by modern standards, do not stand up.

I grew up with lou ferigno hulk, Linda Carter wonder woman and spider man TV movies. I enjoyed them at the time and have fond memories, but modern kids have Civil War, The Avengers, Iron Man. They just laugh at old TV shows. And to be fair, they look as shoddy as hell now. Even ground breaking genius such as the original star wars films look sedate next to modern films (obviously nothing is better than star wars though.....modern kids are stupid).

If I put super mario kart snes on for a modern child I'm afraid they wouldn't give it two minutes without declaring it complete rubbish. Why on earth would they play that when they can play on a Nintendo switch? And in the main, I'd have to agree with them.

[JamesC]

As one of the organisers of a gaming festival in Norwich I think you'd be surprised at how popular our retro area is.
We choose the games quite carefully (more arcadey stuff as that's the nature of the event) and people are always queuing. This year we could hardly get people off Crash Bandicoot, Snes Mario Kart (this and Street Fighter 2 seem to be the most popular of our selection) and Sonic 2.
We also have a couple of multi-game cabinets with a good selection of old arcade games on them.
Younger kids seem to really connect with games which have simpler controls. The appeal of Pacman as a game for mums to play with younger children can't be underestimated - it's so easy to explain and to understand the objective and controls of the game.
This year we also had a guy running a retro home computer area. He had kids queuing up to play Snapper on the BBC Micro (and competing for high scores)! 
I realise there's an element of novelty in all of this but in the right context these games can still entertain.

[IndigoPrime]

My take on media is that for older stuff to still be viable, it needs to have at least some of the sophistication of modern fare, along with offering a kind of timeless quality that enables you to get past how crude it is. With telly, much of what we watched as kids was, frankly, shite. Some movies do well despite (or in some cases because of) their lack of modern production values.

Gaming's a very different thing, because in the early days everything was so basic – arguably far more even than early film or television. And although games evolved rapidly, they have on many occasions been overly reliant on technology, and almost 'enforcing' a kind of approach when certain technological innovations happened. Remember when the PlayStation appeared, and everything suddenly 'had' to be in 3D? Disaster for certain genres.

There are games that stand the test of time, and it's great to hear people in this thread have kids into some old games. (Another person I know said their young kids are totally obsessed by Bubble Bobble in MAME, thereby showing they have great taste!) But even with the greatest old games, you often have to look past their presentation, and for some the difficulty levels will also be too much. (Another friend noted on Facebook recently he's interested in the SNES Mini because the games his daughter plays no longer teach you that you can fail. And this is a good point. Most modern fare lets you keep going and going until you finish something. It's about bludgeoning your way through a game rather than learning strategies to beat it.)

The appeal of Pacman as a game for mums to play with younger children

Ms. Pac-Man is one of those cabs I will have when I'm rich and famous. Such a great game. (Although finally improved upon with CE on Xbox. But it took a bloody long time to get there.)

[SIP]

All good points chaps. Maybe my kids are just philistines! Ha ha.

Bubble Bobble IS a stone cold classic, though I may have driven my mother crazy with the music 6 hours a day.

Another interesting avenue for retro gamers in recent years is the rise of modern games deliberately designed to look retro, such as bro force and undertale.  Oddly enough these will keep my kids attention.

[IndigoPrime]

I find it amusing that pixel art is a style. Of course, back in the day it was just videogame art, and everyone was thrilled when resolutions jumped (not least when those first Amiga pictures appeared, which were jaw-dropping to those with 8-bit machines). Also, CRTs of the time blurred the pixels anyway, and savvy developers utilised this to smooth edges, or using refresh rates and colour-swapping to increase a system's palette.

That said, I do like chunky pixels myself, and there's something satisfying in visuals where you know every single pixel's position has been considered.

[Satanist]

My son (12) is obsessed with Chrono Trigger on DS and wants this for the RPGs, esp Earthbound and Mana. I really think it depends on the child as mine have been taught that gameplay trumps graphics every time. 

[Satanist]

Pre-orders are live at Argos...and relax