Between that first collection of ABC Warriors (the original two titan books) and the Black Hole story was there no other ABC Warrior stories outside of Nemesis the Warlock and Annuals/specials? It seems odd to me.
There was the Khronicles of Khaos wan't there?
Dan
Doh!!
Wrong Black hole...
I'll get me coat.
Dan
Didn't the characters get "retired" at that point, only to return in Nemesis The Warlock?
Well, as I understand it (and hopeflly someone will come along to correct any inaccuracies):
Mills was pissed-off that 2000AD editorial used multiple artists, due to scheduling problems, rather than Mills' preference of Kevin O'Neil and Mike McMahon. He was also subsequently annoyed that editorial kept on promising the Robots return, without consenting him, so he resolved not to use them again after the first initial series.
When beginning work on book 4 of Nemesis, The Gothic Empire, apparently Bryan Talbot (who was taking over artistic duties on the strip from Kevin O'Neil) suggested to Mills that the epic should also feature the Warriors, to which Mills relented. This subsequently led to the Warriors appearences in Nemesis books 5 and 6, which led directly into their second solo series, Black Hole.
The only strip to appear during this cessation in activites (and the only ABC Warriors strip not written by Mills) was Moore/Dillon/Higgins' Red Planet Blues in 1984 2000AD Annual, which is set sometime during the first series.
Dunno about Talbot's contribution but Mills was possibly already heading in that direction since Mek-Quake turned up in Book 3.
Apart from the 85 annual, the only other ones that spring to mind were a text story in the 81 annual about the retreat from Volgow, and the Ro-Busters one in the 83 annual where Pineapples turns up.
Also written by Alan Moore, and with Bryan Talbot's first work for the comic, but it's not considered continuity since it contradicts the timeline as stated by Mills.
Also, I believe that Mills mentions that it was Talbot's suggestion in the intro to Titan's collected book 3 (actually book 4, due to their skipping book 2), but I'll have to check when I get home from work.
...contradicts the timeline as stated by Mills...
To be fair, Mills is more than capable of doing that all by himself.
There was also a great short story called 'Bax the Burner' by Alan Moore and Steve Dillon, for a Special (I think), itwas reprinted by Quality in the Sam Slade Monthly Mag later on.
:-) Rufus
' . . . But it's not considered continuity since it contradicts the timeline as stated by Mills.'
It's been a while since I last scanned 'Old Red Eyes is Back'. How does it contradict A.B.C. Warriors/Ro-Busters continuity?
As I understood Pat he used Mek-Quake in book three and then thought of ways in which Hammerstein and a cameo from Ro-jaws might work as part of the next series. When Bryan Talbot heard this he suggested going the wholee hog and bring the whole squad back.
In fact if I recall correctly Mek-Quake is carting around a photo of Ro-Jaws and Hammerstein, and asks if anyone has any information on their whereabouts (so he can tear them to bits, naturally).
"There was also a great short story called 'Bax the Burner' by Alan Moore and Steve Dillon, for a Special (I think), itwas reprinted by Quality in the Sam Slade Monthly Mag later on."
And in the meg a while back! I already had the quality one though, which was annoying. Although that one was in colour and the megs wasn't so I suppose the megs was a bit better...
Hang on - is this the same Mek-Quake who works in the Nerve Centre? How can that be?
:-)
Some brilliant puns in that Bax the Burner.
S
p
o
o
i
l
e
r
s
"I refuse to answer on the grounds that I may be incinerated"
and the punchline
"Just an old flame"
Hang on - is this the same Mek-Quake who works in the Nerve Centre? How can that be?
Hmm, interesting, I guess Mek-Quake, Ro-Jaws and Hammerstein AREN'T special protected Pat Mills characters after all, but just ropey old "house characters".
so pat can use other people characters? but they cant use his.
I C ok right then.
i have a copy of that BAX the burner one,it was a ro busters tale, with BAX looking for his former nurse,whom had gone to work for MR ten percente.
outstanding art work, good solid thrill,worth searching out.
You know Art, I would argue that point (and I think as usual there is a reasonable point to be made), but I'm by now pretty fucking sick of people bitching about Pat Mills all the time. The fact it's on a thread I started just to ask a simple unpolitical question is pretty galling.
It's become such an ingrained part of the message board, to actually look for (and in some cases project) really diseased motives and beliefs onto almost every aspect of his behaviour and work, that I don't think many people even consider what they are saying anymore as offensive.
There are other 2000AD creators who appear on the board to shout down anyone who even smells like they are going to be critical about their strips. And have regularly browbeaten people into agreeing that their work isn't as shit as it first seemed.
Never mind the really personal attacks, that usually seem reserved for those who are declared trolls and are therefore 'legitimate targets' and anything goes. I suppose when you know someone isn't going to take you to task for your views, then it's a lot easier to make them.
If you don't understand where I'm coming from, then if we take the Holy Cow of 2000AD, John Wagner (who I have the same amount of respect for by the way) and people were to start maligning his motives, seizing and picking apart any public comment made, attributing petulance to his past arguments with 2000AD owners, or ascribing right wing views to his work, then you (and I) might reasonably take issue with them.
An no, I'm not asking for a negative comparison between Wagner and Mills. As always I don't defend everything that Pat Mills has written, and if you don't like Slaine as a story, or any of Pat Mill's writing, that's fine. I don't take issue with that.
I didn't bother with the last Slaine thread, and I won't bother with future threads if I can help it, because it's become apparent that having the sort of contradictory views I have is just seen as causing trouble. And really you are pretty much happier arguing over the degree of how evil/incompetant/petty Mills is amongst yourselves.
So, that's my rant, it's not a reaction to one little jibe from Art, but countless such comments and much worse from the great wide message board. I tried changing the title to 'you are all a bunch of cocks', but for some reason I'm not allowed to.
Feel free to leave this in stony silence, or bitch back, but I don't think I have anything more to say. I don't think I can change popular opinion, but at least I've had my say.
Thank you
Actually. without wishing to protract the thread further, I have to agree completely with Paul on this one. I've also felt that Mills can often get a raw deal from the fans - admittedly, I only came back to 2000AD relatively recently, so I may have missed a lot of dross, but I've never quite understood why Wagner is so feted whilst Mills is practically despised. They've both written great strips, and they've both written a load of rubbish too - they're writers, so it's part and parcel of the job.
As far as I can see, they both seem to be writing pretty damn good stories at the moment, which I'm certainly enjoying reading, at least in the most part.
I think it's because Mills went a long time writing only "khaos" crap, and also because he's managed to totally wreck previously exciting characters. Slaine is at best a shadow of his former self and at worst a total embarrassment. Although Dredd can at times be mediocre when written by Wagner, it's never truly dire, but that's not the case for Mills. Also, Wagner gets across his own personal politics at times without resorting to being overtly preachy.
I do think there's a tendency to pick n Pat Mills, and it's probably a bit unfair. I can see why, though.
In his day, he was one of the finest writers around, creating truly groundbreaking, exciting characters and strips. Later on, he went all pagan and turned every story he wrote into a sermon, destroying (or at least damaging) several well-loved strips in the process. Of late, he does seem to be getting his mojo back, at least in fits and starts. Slaine is definitely looking past its best, though.
I think it's just frustrating to see such mediocre work coming from a writer who has proven himself to be capable of infinitely better work.
Right behind Paul on this subject aswell. Been feeling the need to to respond to all this anti Mills vitriol, but just couldn't summon the energy. Think it's all getting a bit tiresome, to be honest. All the writers have had an off period, can't remember anyone else getting as much flak. Mill's has written his fair share of duds-so has wagner, come to that. But Wagner seems to be some sacred cow, you dare not criticize. I've cosistently enjoyed the latest Slaine(dodgy politics included)and the recent ABC WARRIOR strips have been some of the best ever. His recent output is certainly been a damn site better than the FINN era. But what do i know, i just read the fucking thing.
Frankly, if Wagner went nearly a decade without writing anything half-decent, I'm pretty sure people would be laying into him on a regular basis.
i geuss pat gets it in the neck due to his handling of the whole ITS MY CHARACTER thing.
which is fine when you look at a business,
disney do it with mickey mousse after all.
but he goes after the man in the street,
if Disney where to start posting notices about children drawing pictures of their characters and putting them in places people could see them im sure plently would have something to say.
there are plenty of examples of the fact, Pat sets himself up for the knee jerk reactions he gets.
though his recent stuff has been outstanding.
(excluding that dire self indulgent satanus stuff)
Mills ranting about character ownership is nothing like Disney doing the same with the mouse. The nearest equivalent would be Rebellion itself protecting its IP, not Mills. Remember, Mills doesn't actually "own" any of the characters he's created for 2000 AD, and the only reason editors let him get away with such claims is because otherwise he acts like a spoiled brat (see: Rennie's Satanus story).
However, I still think the fact he wrote crap for years is what counts against him, not anything else. As for his current work, it's certainly an improvement, but still feels rather old-hat at times.
The reason people lay into Pat Mills is not because they do not like his writing. It may not even be because he gets huge portions of the prog allocated to himself. However the fact that Pat believes himself to be RIGHT all the time and everyone else to be WRONG is irritating to many fans.
Pat is more than capable of insulting other people if he feels there's justification (he didn't have to attack Andy Diggle in interviews, he didn't have to call him 2000AD's worst editor ever - he chose to) so he himself should be willing to suffer criticism if he fails to deliver.
Hearing people drone on about Mills and his faults as a person or a writer can be annoying but sometimes it's justified and that's just the way it is.
He has stated that he doesn't write for 'the fans' - so no wonder a lot of fans don't like what he does!
I'm really liking the recent run on ABC Warriors - that's top stuff. Sl?ine is alright, better then it has been, not as good as it used to be. Savage (for me) is a mixed bag. Black Siddha I've enjoyed.
I was going to say other stuff, but I've said it all before, you've said it all before, the guy over there's said it before... circles & circles.
i dont really know anything about pat mills as the person
but everything he wrote since i started reading was shit
When did you start reading?
i started at 800 or so
dont think i ever thought any strip by mills was any good in that time
im sure there was something i just cant think what
Well, if you only started at prog 800, I'm not surprised you don't have a high opinion of Mills' writing. You missed the glory years of strips like Nemesis and Slaine and came in when stuff like Dinosty & Finn was getting published.
His current work is light-years beyond that (even if Slaine still lets the side down badly...) but if you haven't seen his earlier work, I don't blame you for missing what readers see in him!
"hasn't written anything good in 10 years" - that's simply an opinion, as opposed to being a fact. Just because you say it, it doesn't make it true. Personally, I've liked the majority of Pat's work: there are times when I've found Slaine repetitive (although not the Books Of Invasion, which I love), and I thought Finn eventually got pretty tired. Of course, that's just my opinion. Just because I think it, it doesn't mean anyone or everyone has to agree with me.
"acts like a spoiled brat" - wouldn't you be pissed off if things that you created were abused without your say-so? Try putting yourself in his shoes before you start the name calling.
Do any of you remember the story of how John Wagner walked into the manager's office, emptied a suitcase full of Dredd merchandise on the table and said "How much money do you think I've made out of this lot?" The manager looked blank and Wagner said something along the lines of "Fuck all". Does that make him petulant? The fact that he was sticking up for his rights as a worker?
Personally I think that makes him brave. So, Mills does the same thing, and he gets slagged off for it? Can you spell "hypocritical"?
If even one of you critics could come up with a sensible and balanced argument I'd have lots more respect for your opinion. If any one of you could write material that surpasses or even equals Mills, or come up with some kind of positive solution to whatever you consider the problem to be: I'd have respect for you.
As it is, it just sounds like criticism for it's own sake.
If any one of you could write material that surpasses or even equals Mills
so you're saying that it's only okay to criticise if we can do better?
my footballing skills have seen better days, but if i pay to see my team and they play shite (which liverpool tend to do these days), i'm fully entitled to criticise. the same goes for *anything* (ie not just mills' work) in the prog or meg as i buy them both.
fwiw i have no problem with mills' standing up for himself and protecting his future work prospects, and i can see his point of view where this seems like a sensible approach
*but* slaine has been crap for ages. my opinion, i know, but it stinks. really.
thinky
I try to judge Mills on the basis of individual stories, but after Slaine (I quite like early Slaine BTW), Black Siddha (Started out promisingly, but went downhill, WAY downhill), and Blood of Satanus (It may of been a joke, but it shouldn't of ran to four episodes), I found it easy to mock Pat.
But then Savage (OK) came along, followed by the ABC Warriors which proved he is still an amazing writer. I wish he would do some things differently, but the general term "Pat Mills" is one I respect. Besides, it's well documented that Slaine fans often only read for Slaine.
"Besides, it's well documented that Slaine fans often only read for Slaine."
Sarcasm?
No, It's just been said that there are a significant number of non-SF fans who only like Slaine. I'm sorry if I came across as thinking that all Slaine fans are weirdos.
While I agree that "hasn't written anything good in 10 years" is an opinion, it's hardly just my own (and, for the record, I don't like being misquoted, and what you wrote is not the same in terms of meaning as what I wrote)?plenty of people agree that Pat went through an extremely lean period, beginning with the third Horned God book, and largely continuing for another decade. I don't really care whether people agree with me or not, but it's hardly difficult to see why he gets such a hard time from readers, and although he has finally started writing fairly decent stuff now and again, he's still a long way from being consistent.
As for my "spoiled brat" comment, I *am* a writer, and plenty of my work gets repurposed on a very regular basis. Does it annoy me? To some extent, I suppose, but largely because I don't get paid for reprints. The thing is, Pat knew and knows how 2000 AD works. If he wants to own his creations, he should only do creator-owned stuff. As for his previous creations, he should let go?at least in some cases. It's hardly like Rennie "abused" Satanus in that story, is it? And, for the record, I've had ideas and columns appropriated, too, so I know what it's like. However, that is the reality of the writing industry, and if you don't like it, do something else!
Wagner's case is different. *If* Wagner threw a hissy fit any time another writer worked on Dredd, then you might have a point. But he doesn't. Sure, he doesn't consider many non-Wagner Dredds to be "canon", but that's a long way from slagging off an editor because he dared to take a character you created and commissioned another writer to build a story around it (and one that happened to be rather good, too).
A quick look at the "Whatever happened to..?" series from the Megazine last year...
All written by Mills, Rennie and Spurrier.
The only one written by the person who was involved with the creation of the characters involved was the 'Tweak' one.
Read too much into that if you like.
It wasn't my intention to mis-quote anyone (despite my use of quotation marks) and in fact I was only para-phrasing because I was too lazy to read back through all the posts and make sure I was being uber-accurate.
Also, I wasn't implying that only published comics writers are allowed to criticise, although I can see how my sentence was ambiguous and could be read that way. I did have an "or" in there.
My point, really, was just that if one is going to criticise, one should offer some positive solution or alternative. Eg "Oi, ref - get some glasses!" is more helpful than "Oi, ref - you're crap!" I know, I'm being facetious.
I find it interesting that in my ingnorance (of the politics surrounding Satanus) I rather enjoyed the recent story - in part due to Duke Mighten's artwork, which I really enjoyed.
I guess I'm just not aware (personally) of a 10-year lean period. Eg. I liked Finn - I found the subject matter interesting.
Also, I suppose, my politics are such that I like to side with the underdog. The argument (and here I quote correctly) that "if you don't like it, do something else" is hardly of succour to someone who's whole life is "it" and has no skill or experience of "something else".
Still, you (as a group) have risen to my challenge of positing a reasonable argument and at least now I can see where you're coming from, whereas before it just seemed like a tide of unfounded resentment. Thanks for taking the time to explain your relative positions.
For my part (and as I said above: I'm liking the majority of Mills' current output) it's just lots of little niggles that 'annoy' about Mills - and annoy is totally too strong a word.
There is a lot of (real or imagined) sexist/homophobic references/occurances in Mills scripts. They are definitely there, but who can say how they were intended other than Pat himself: maybe they're jokes, maybe they're un-PC "shock" (devil's advocate) opinions, or maybe they're Mills' actual opinions - I don't know.
The point is, they do crop up regularly. So when they do, my reaction is "*groan* oh Pat, again?".
I think of him as "the loveable elderly relative who often says embarrassing or offence things" of the comics world. You know, like when my grandad starts off about 'I don't know what I fought the Germans for - there's no law & order in this country anymore' etc. You ignore the 'Daily Mail' rants & drink your tea politely. Doesn't mean you like him any less! (NB. I'm not saying Mills is a DailyMail ranter - it's only a loose simile.)
It's that, combined with a tendency for people to compare his stuff with his early stuff - which is pretty much unarguably hugely better, and the fact that a lot of people are bored with Sl?ine now.
Of course, every time Mills does one of these, we talk about it here on the board. Therefore this type of discussion comes up regularly: with people saying "Stop having a go at Mills, you've always got it in for Mills!" blowing the whole thing out of proportion.
Oddboy,
Hopefully being reasonable.
Heh! Pat Mills?the Prince Philip of the comics world!
Fair enough, and I appreciate the clarification regarding quoting. I suppose the "lean" period is down to personal taste, but having come from 2000 AD's "classic" 300 era, I got gradually more annoyed with the strips from 700ish onwards, including Mills' output. I never liked Finn in Third World War, so was hardly thrilled to see him in 2000 AD. The stories weren't appalling, in my opinion, but it always read like a second-rate Slaine to me. His Nemesis stuff around that time was pretty poor (with the exception of the Weston one in that winter special), and after Horned God, Slaine became a running joke. Dinosty was shockingly bad, even if taken as a straight parody ("Religion is bad," says Pat), and I never thought much of "Legend of Shamana".
Of late, I've found Mills' output variable, to say the least. I thought Savage was all right, but hardly the near classic some are suggesting, and ABC Warriors is good old-fashioned fun. His Dredd in the Meg was, frankly, embarrassing, and I just find Slaine is really, really boring these days, which never used to be the case. Then again, it's never as much fun to read something the third time round.
It's not all bad?it never was. I guess I just expect too much from such a comics icon. For what it's worth, Grant's 2000 AD output is just as disappointing to me these days.
Wow. You stop reading the board for a few days and the Mills Bomb blows up again...
My own humble thoughts:
Mills is one of the Greats of the 2000AD Pantheon, an out-and-out comics genius, part of the Holy Trinity of Tooth, beside whom even Moore is merely a great prophet, and Morrison, Morrison, Abnett and Rennie (great name for a law firm) merely disciples. As such there is a certain pointlessness to the readership criticising him - like Wagner and Grant, he IS 2000AD, its tone, its style. If you like the comic, there is a good chance you like SOMETHING that is mostly Mills' creation.
But...
His writing has been at times the best thing and the worst thing in the comic, sometimes in the same Prog - in short, his output is uneven. Thus, he sometimes disappoints people's expectations, falling short (in our eyes) of his own standards. This is the first reason he attracts flak, including my own (Blood of Satanus II, anyone?).
More than any other 2000AD writer, he deliberately and overtly works with political, social and gender themes, and uses them to often radically change and develop his existing much beloved characters and strips. Even while changing and rewok his own back catalogue he also vocally protects his characters from other writers, who it mght be suggested might treat them in a more popular and straightforward way (Rennie's excellent Satanus Unchained, anyone?). This is the other reason he is much dumped-upon in forums like this - much of his stuff by its nature invites debate and invective.
So while Mills IS a vital and wonderful part of the 2000AD experience, and deserves bucketfuls of respect from all Squaxx for his contribution, it's pretty inevitable that he's going to ruffle feathers - he goes out of his way to do so.
Where I personally draw the line is where this understandable crirticism seems to constantly invoke aspects of his personal and professional life well outside the arena of his writing.
Mills has EARNED our respect a dozen times over - we don't have to like everything he does, but as fans of Tooth we DO have to respect him as a creator.
Well, this is probbaly all my fault... really I only wanted to make the observation that HAmmerstein, Mek-Quake and Rojaws seem to actually be house characters (which is actually pretty usefull information if you're interested in small press stuff etc...) but I put it in an overly snarky way, and for that I apologise, it really wasn't necessary for me to drag this thread into this whole damn Pat Mills dissing/defence thing again...
So, Warren Ellis, he's a fat lazy bastard who talks himself up a lot while being noticibly less good than he used to be, isn't he?
Actually, can I partially stand up for Dinosty...?
I thought the unsubtle Dinosaurs as ruling classes (or vice versa), was great fun - it was only the Elder Gods bits that sent it off track for me...
Oh, now stop - you're getting me all nostalgiac.
Here's a thought, though: the entire comic was wonderful in the 300s and crap in the 700s, so maybe Mills had fallen foul of whatever it was that was sucking the life out of the whole comic. Just a thought.
To be honest, Finn was something that I tolerated (because, like you, I'd seen enough of him in Crisis) but I eventually warmed to the series: if only because lots of people in suits broke out in pustulent boils (and stuff).
Legend of Shamana you can feed to da boids, true enough. Pretty much pants. As for Dinosty, it's not something I even remember very well now: which speaks volumes on it's own.
Just to branch off slightly, I grabbed progs 330 and 722 off the wall for a glance at the contents. There couldn't be a starker difference in quality: on the one hand you've got the first episode of Slaine, Sam Slade (in what should have been his last ever episode, madcap Dredd, Skizz (the first, good one) and classic Rogue Trooper; then on the other you've got mediochre Dredd, Brigand Doom (oh, the horror!), crap Rogue Trooper (Golden Fox Rebellion, anyone?), and Armoured Gideon (my favourite out of the bunch at that time). The best thing about prog 722 is the advert for Speedball 2 by The Bitmap Brothers.
And rest...
Pat Mills again?..lets discuss the works, politics and mindset of Steve Moore or Igor Goldkind ..just for a change eh?..
Pat does it his way..always has always will.
God bless ya !
If Hammerstein and co were in the war BEFORE the judges and survived all the way to the society of Termite that appears on earth thousands of years after the judges are long gone, how can they still be the best robots?
Hasn't anyone designed an upgrade?
Don't they get metal fatigue?
ah, but they are constantly being upgraded..nano-bots are currently at work in their entire structurem making sure the Warriors satay cutting edge..
This theme is touched upon in many of the stories: when SMS and Bisley were drawing the Warriors, they were suffering metal fatigue (thus Hammerstein's "stringy helmet" look).
In Khronicles of Khaos, they are out-moded by the Imperial Rottweilers, who use Deuterium bullets, leading to the [paraphrased] line "We should have been made the ABCD Warriors".
In the recent tales on Mars, the opposition are trying to take them out with more modern robots.
It's just that, despite their rust-bucket status, they still seem to come out on top at the end.
Note also that Joe Pineapples and Mek-Quake often use new bodies, and after being shot full of holes by honest scientists (Khronicles, again) they all had their outer-casing repaired.
It's actually even more complex than this. In the recent Mars shennanigans (which I generally enjoyed), the warriors hop into "backup" bodies. WTF? Where did these come from, and why do they so closley resemble the 'current' states of the Warriors? Have they always had backup bodies, where were they all this time (surely not in Mek Quake's dozer?), and id not where did they find them?
Particularly intrigued by Mongrol's, who IIRC is rebuilt from bits of other robots after an unfortunate parachuting accident, and Blackblood's, which is still missing an eye and has a drill (acquired in the Blackhole Bypass) for a leg.
Ah well.
"Where did these come from, and why do they so closley resemble the 'current' states of the Warriors?"
Yeah that whole thing was fierce dodgy. How convenient that they happened to have a crate with back-up bodies nearby.
Another interesting thing about these back-up bodies is that they're all scarred and battle-damaged in EXACTLY the same way the originals were.
That is a daft state of affairs: maybe the artist wasn't reading the script? Hmmm...
(Of course, Blackblood does like his road-drill leg, so maybe he ordered that for his back-up. They could've just popped into a scrappies: it might have made for an entertaining aside.)
I'm pretty much bored with them saving Mars anyway - I'd like to see what they get up to between adventures: does Joe hang out in the gay district of Mekka? How about having some rogue nanobots take over Ro-Jaws: the only way to save him is to miniaturise the Warriors and send them in the back way. Erm...
Yes, I was somewhat disappointed about the whole 'spare body scenario' thats a real get out clause.
Yes I think they should bugger off from mars and just go and shoot stuff for a while. Leave the whole psychic deadlock/nemisis malarky for a bit and go off and blow stuff up.
Personally I think Blackblood is well overdue a story of his own.
What about a mini series where we explore the warriors 'down time'?
I've just started reading the ABC novel 'Medusa War' (only about half the first chapter, so far)
Any one know which (comic) series this is set between? I'm guessing it's supposed to be just before the Shadow Warriors Book I?
"Yes I think they should bugger off from mars and just go and shoot stuff for a while."
Nah, silly spare bodies aside, the Mars stuff is the best 'ABC Warriors' in years and years, since the Blackhole Bypass stuff at least. Ther Shadow Warriors are fun, and the whole Martian setup just weird enough to be interesting. I say let them stay on Mars, but also heartily endorse the idea of getting to see them in their leisure hours.
Given how successful the Deadlock solo series was, I'm sure there's mileage in a short sequence of solo strips exploring each Warrior's downtime. Of course if this means making teh gap between regular 'books' any longer I'm dead against it...
There also isn't nearly enough acknowledgement of their insanely complicated histories, particularly the very odd relationship between Steelhorn and the rest - former liquid-Mess-turned-planetary-consciousness meets up with former comrades who have lived several millennia longer than he has, seen the future and been to yer actually end of the world (on a day trip admittedly), and as I'm fond of pointing out actually have 'original' versions of themselves out there in the universe somewhere doing Medusa-knows-what while all this is going on... Worthy of some downtime discussion, surely.
My head hurts
Will
It's as easy as A, B, C.
(Why are you all throwing tomatoes?)
Not read Medusa War but IIRC yer right.
No, I've read up to half-way through chapter 2 now (slow readers class, I know. Why do you think I like comics so much?!)
Morrigun's in it and it starts with the Warriors returning to Mars so it must be before 'The Third Element' series (progs 1234-1248).
It's set 2000 years on from the original Mars story, although I don't know how many years it was for the Warriors, with their time-travelling.
Medusa War is set 2000 years on from the original Mars stories!?! That's very interesting info not presented anywhere else (AFAIK) - I would have guessed a few hundred years, tops. Simplifies the Warriors timeline quite a bit, that does.
This does suggest that the Terran Empire stuff is set immediately beforehand, rather than any other time-travelling taking place in between (after the Warriors exit from the Blackhole Bypass, I mean).
Anyone want to hazard a guess as to whenabouts Termight gets going, so? Another few thousand years after this?
I thought Tharg (or possibly Pat himself) told us at the beginning of the latest run that the series was set after their adventures with Nemesis?
So far as I can tell:
SPOILERS for ABC Warriors & Nemesis the Warlock series...
S
P
O
I
L
E
R
S
Ro-Busters (in Star Lord) - 2078 AD
This is set after Hammerstein's original War (against the Volgans?)
Features: Mek-Quake, Ro-Jaws & Hammerstein
ABC Warriors - first series on Mars
Can't remember the date (if given) - but some time after the Ro-Busters era, I think.
Nemesis I-VI and Black Hole era
After original Mars story, far future. (including time-travel day trip to the end of the universe & back).
Nemesis books VII-IX
Nem & Torque go back in time.
Kronicles & Hellbringer
Termight era - but far flung reaches of space
Neme Book X
Neme & Torque back in Termight era - end of Torque's rule, Purity B new president - leads into...
Deadlock solo series
Set just after Nem Book X
Medusa War novel
2000 years after original Mars stories - so 'Termight' era of earth lasts less then 2000 years.
There are now aliens on Mars - but they are new to the planet - Medusa (Mars' personality) created new lifeforms to combat humans - hence why they weren't purged by Torquemada: they're brand new!
Third Element series
On Mars again, presumably after the novel has finished (but I've not finished reading it myself)
Morrigun gets killed, Medusa turns into Steelhorn & joins the ABCs, Mongrol get's smarter.
Shadow Warriors
Brings us up to date.
Correct my mistakes!
You know, I think the first Martian series is set BEFORE Ro-Busters. Certainly the annual story with Joe Pineapples in, and the framing sequences in the first collection seem to say this.
DxB's right: The ABC warriors' original mars mission would have taken place before 2078 and the Ro-busters stories.
The ABC Warriors were recruited for the Mars mission toward the end of the Volgan war. It was after the war (and the Mars mission) that Hammerstein was sold to Ro-busters as army surplus.
So, the Volgan War occurs after the war between the Judges and the Meks?
Let's not go there.
Are you sure, Gordon? I'm game. I reckon if, hypothetically, the Volgans invade Britain in 1999, and the Volgan war comes to its conclusion some time before 2078, then the Volgan war rages for 70 years or so, but never on American soil.
In the meantime, the judges come to power around 2060, after the Great Atomic War, and having fought President Robert L. Booth's Mek troopers in Death Valley. By this time robots have become commonplace among the troops of both sides in the Volgan war taking place mostly in Europe.
That's only if we *want* to tie ourselves in knots with continuity.
Nooooooooooooooooooooooo!
I'm not listen-ing! I'm not listen-ing! I'm not listen-ing! I'm not listen-ing! I'm not listen-ing! I'm not listen-ing! I'm not listen-ing! I'm not listen-ing! I'm not listen-ing! I'm not listen-ing! I'm not listen-ing! I'm not listen-ing!
- Trout
Putative Judge Dredd timeline, from right her on this website...
Link: For your consideration....
Just to correct myself on a couple of points:
[SPOILERS]
- The metal fatigue is first talked about in Nemesis Book IV, when Hammerstein, Mad Ron and Hitaki strip a dead comrade for parts, so SMS and Bisley are only following on from that.
- The scene in Khronicles of Khaos where they repair themselves is a 3-pager that only turns up in the Prog, and not in the GN. It's not even listed as being part of the series on the "Spread The Word" website.
Okay, this timeline has the Volgan war concluding around 2028, and the Great Atomic War in 2070, and the Battle of Armageddon taking place in 2071.
So it'd be quite difficult to make Ro-busters fit unless Ro-jaws and Hammerstein spent 50 years on the Ro-busters staff. And it's a bit implausible having Ro-busters taking place after an atomic war anyway.
So, like Gordon says, let's not go there...
Yeah, let's not!
Don't even think about where Bill Savage fits in here!
What war was Sam Slade fighting in the flashback sequence of "The Slaying of Slade"?
Nevermind. I never bought into the idea that Hammerstein was part of the whole Death Valley whoo-hah anyway.
My head still hurts
Will
Pop...splat.....the sound of Krestels head exploding. You guys hurt my head!!!!
CU Krestel
Having had a look at the official
timelines I'm keen to see two stories in print:
The atomic wars and the Battle For Armageddon: 2070-2071
The civil war between MC-1 and MC-3 (aka Texas City): 2083-2086
PS. Back to the ABC Warriors timeline...the "end of the world" is set in 10 thousand million years BC (just for the record).
BC?
Now where did I leave my "Donkey" hat?