Rewatching the OTHER Dredd movie...

[Bat King]

As for making the Angel Gang into cannibals, I never had a problem with it, and there's been a suggestion that it was a concious move to bring them closer to their inspiration - the cannibal gang in The Hills Have Eyes.

I couldn't have cared less about turning the Angels into the Dahmer Family; but compared to the gleeful relish that bunch of sadistic cunts took in tormenting Old Joe Blind (and his horse), it was fairly tame stuff.

It was that jouissance, their happy ability to derive endless pleasure from their evil acts, which endeared the characters to readers. When the good guys are morose pricks like Dredd and Old Joe Blind, characters like Junior and Pa are the ones readers enjoy, identify with, and look forward to seeing again. (Mis)-applying the fond indulgence of a doting parent to Pa, and the teary-eyed pride he takes in the prodigous psychopathy of Junior, makes for endlessly funny dialogue.

If the filmmakers had understood that, they'd have seen that there was no need to lighten Dredd's character or give him a wisecracking sidekick to play off.

1 - The certificate wouldn't let them be as good as in the comic.

2 - The film makers didn't understand squat of the source material

[Professor Bear]

The comic was aimed at kids, though, and didn't show any on-panel gore until the early 1990s.  They could have got the Angel Gang closer to the source material if they wanted to, but if they're that funny and memorable they might outshine Stallone, and audiences might react badly to their being killed off moments later.  I get the impression that a lot of potential comedy was reined in during the movie, as Schneider doesn't actually do much except exposit, despite having some clearly-signposted scenes where ad-libbed material by the comedian co-star is supposed to go (those mentioning Demolition Man might recall Dennis Leary getting similar scenes to let rip with some of his stage act), and pa Angel was played by Wayne's World co-star Dana whatsisface.
Watched the second half of this today, and though technically and visually impressive, there's no denying that the ABC moves like latter-day Dolph Lundgren - unconvincingly and like he's in pain all the time.  Also, the bit where Rico goes to "insert his DNA sample" in the lady-voiced computer's plughole for some reason still has me laughing my arse off every time I see it, and Assante's fantastically sleazy accent and O-face as he says "take DIS DNA sample - NOW!" just makes matters worse.

Otherwise, it only struck me on this viewing that Danny Cannon isn't a great action director, though I recall thinking at the time the (brief) action scenes in Young Americans weren't up to much either, and it's not just the Judge armor slowing down the actors - the characters just line up to shoot or get shot.  That Dredd is a clone is also an immensely stupid reveal which never occurred to me before as I already knew that from the comics, but within the film it just piles contrivance upon contrivance and makes the story a heap of ever-escalating dumb plot beats: Dredd's nemesis is also his brother, but also his evil clone, his mentor is his surrogate father, but is also his actual father - pick one bit of stupidity and flesh it out and it can work just fine - this is sci-fi, after all - but just keep heaping it on and none of it ends up having any emotional weight, I mean, when Dredd says "my whole life - is a lie!" what does that actually mean coming from him as a character?  We've been told the whole film that he has no life and doesn't form emotional attachments to other people, so why would he care that parents he never knew didn't actually exist?  Surely his main emotional concern - if he's going to have one, and the makers decided he was - should be that Fargo lied to him?  Or that Fargo was effectively his father and rather than being absent from Dredd's life had been ever present and nurturing?  These concerns are never touched upon, and the thunder-cracking outside and "I have been lied to!" moping that typifies movie Dredd after his trial continues until Max Von Sydow carks it looking more like he just fell asleep.
Later, I wondered why that judge that stops Dredd doesn't go "What was that shooting noise just now coming from the Council of Five's private quarters?  Should I maybe prioritise that over a guy whose face I can't actually make out?", but no-one seems to be comparing calibers of bullets (Dredd carries an  anti-tank weapon while the Council are shot with a handgun) and considering things like logic or thinking about motives.  Says a lot, really.

[Eric Plumrose]

While I don't think I've been able to sit through the entire movie since I saw it in the cinema, there were a few things I remember liking at the time:

• The opening shot. Of that Judge fella standing guard on the wall as the transporter thingie rises behind him.
• Fargo's formal way of addressing Dredd as 'Joseph'.
• Dredd, Rico, and(?) Fargo all having the same eyes.
• The Lawgiver. Much much prefer the movie design. And it zaps instead of exploding when some silly noggin tries using it without permission. The DNA tagging is also bonkersly brilliant. This being the 1995 film, however, they can't help but fuck up so the Lawgiver not only talks with an 'amusing' robot voice it also fires whammies by the double when there are, conveniently, only two armed perps remaining.

[Dandontdare]

I remember my sense of awe of the city the first ten minutes , thinking YES - and then he started talking.

One of the worst Christmas presents I ever got (from my own BROTHER for Drokks sake) was:
The cassette version of...
the audio book version of...
the novelisation of...
the screenplay of...
THAT MOVIE

not the soundtrack you understand, no celeb voices; just somebody reading the fucking story whilst trying to keep a straight face.

Because he knew I liked Judge Dredd.

Actually Commando Forces ... DO YOU HAVE THAT ONE? if not - what's it worth? 

[Adrian Bamforth]

Though many things will be unforgivable to fans, I think we have to remember just how much the movie industry has changed: it was the era of action movie stars. Today, just the knowledge that a film is based on a comic book seems to bring in the crowds, who don't seem to care if they have heard of the actors before. Even if Stallone of Cannon had desperately wanted to keep the helmet on, or make it darker, their hands may well have been tied - Hollywood is about accountancy. True, the Batman films were underway, starting the whole comic book adaptation trend... but for me they were overhyped and just as unrepresentative, the first one having very little plot. Most sci-fi from those days just looks terrible, or doesn't work. It took years before the audience, the infastructure and the techniques were there to do comic books. The alternative to something similar to Judge Dredd would have been... no Judge Dredd.

[Definitely Not Mister Pops]

Though many things will be unforgivable to fans, I think we have to remember just how much the movie industry has changed: it was the era of action movie stars. Today, just the knowledge that a film is based on a comic book seems to bring in the crowds, who don't seem to care if they have heard of the actors before. Even if Stallone of Cannon had desperately wanted to keep the helmet on, or make it darker, their hands may well have been tied - Hollywood is about accountancy. True, the Batman films were underway, starting the whole comic book adaptation trend... but for me they were overhyped and just as unrepresentative, the first one having very little plot. Most sci-fi from those days just looks terrible, or doesn't work. It took years before the audience, the infastructure and the techniques were there to do comic books. The alternative to something similar to Judge Dredd would have been... Robocop.

FTFY

[JOE SOAP]

Though many things will be unforgivable to fans, I think we have to remember just how much the movie industry has changed: it was the era of action movie stars. Today, just the knowledge that a film is based on a comic book seems to bring in the crowds, who don't seem to care if they have heard of the actors before. Even if Stallone of Cannon had desperately wanted to keep the helmet on, or make it darker, their hands may well have been tied - Hollywood is about accountancy.

If you said to an audience there's a Batman film where Bruce Wayne wears the suit for 10 minutes at the start then takes the whole thing off and never wears it again for the next 90 minutes till the end I don't think you could realistically call it a film about Batman but about Bruce Wayne. That's what we got with the Stallone film. Not even the Burton/Schumacher Batman films did that.

[CYCLOPZ]

Though many things will be unforgivable to fans, I think we have to remember just how much the movie industry has changed: it was the era of action movie stars. Today, just the knowledge that a film is based on a comic book seems to bring in the crowds, who don't seem to care if they have heard of the actors before. Even if Stallone of Cannon had desperately wanted to keep the helmet on, or make it darker, their hands may well have been tied - Hollywood is about accountancy.

If you said to an audience there's a Batman film where Bruce Wayne wears the suit for 10 minutes at the start then takes the whole thing off and never wears it again for the next 90 minutes till the end I don't think you could realistically call it a film about Batman but about Bruce Wayne. That's what we got with the Stallone film. Not even the Burton/Schumacher Batman films did that.

But Nolans Dark Knight Rises did.

[JOE SOAP]

But Nolans Dark Knight Rises did.

Not really.

[Frank]

If you said to an audience there's a Batman film where Bruce Wayne wears the suit for 10 minutes at the start then takes the whole thing off and never wears it again for the next 90 minutes till the end I don't think you could realistically call it a film about Batman but about Bruce Wayne. That's what we got with the Stallone film.

The tension between the identities of Bruce Wayne and The Bat was fairly fertile ground in the comics, and even Schumacher gestured toward that by giving them a psychiatrist as a foil in Batman 4. The fact that, without the badge, Dredd really has no identity at all might have been an interesting avenue to explore, but Stallone's own on-screen persona was quickly slotted in to fill the void.

The helmet and shoulderpads looked so stupid, I could have lived with Stallone losing both. The fact that neither he nor the film makers were even trying to portray the character from the comics meant they quickly lost (and didn't deserve) any good will or understanding on my part.

[IAMTHESYSTEM]

I always felt the concept design for the 1995 Movie ,the city backgrounds, the people's clothes and even the much maligned Taxi wasn't that bad from a design point of view. If you'd never heard of Judge Dredd you'd sort of get the idea of what his world was about and considering such 2000AD notables such as Kev Walker worked on some of the concepts I think that the Film Producers wanted something similar looking to the comic.

Of course they then changed everything that made Dredd the futures toughest Law man, turning the protagonist into an outlaw, giving him a Uniform that made him into 'Camp' Dredd rather than Judge Dredd and a sidekick who was comic relief. The there's that cod piece -which was the real comic relief. Wrong wrong and wrong again. But that's that it, its done and that's that. Stallone has spoken openly of his regret that it wasn't what he'd hoped it be so I see the 1995 Judge Dredd Film as missed opportunity screwed by Hollywood who saw it as just another action flick.   

Looks like Mr Urban, Miss Thirsby, Mr Garland and Mr Travis have all tried their damnedest to give us the Judge Dredd we know and fear. On the 7/9/12 we'll find out whether it's Hi Ex or >cough< Double whammy.

[COMMANDO FORCES]

Actually Commando Forces ... DO YOU HAVE THAT ONE? if not - what's it worth? 

I do have that one and the junior audio novelisation as well

[Alski]

pa Angel was played by Wayne's World co-star Dana whatsisface.

Erm... no. Don't know where you got that from. He was played by Scott Wilson, recently seen as Hershel in The Walking Dead

One other thing... if the lawgiver records DNA, why didn't it point the finger at Fargo, who has the same DNA as Dredd, surely?

[Steve Green]

I seem to recall that Dredd and Rico weren't strict clones as such, that the source was a mixture of DNA rather than just Fargo's.

Although I'm not sure why I'm even bothering defending the film's logic...

[Mardroid]

The DNA of Dredd and Rico was close enough that it fooled the gun's scanner though (if I remember the film correctly, it's been a while).

Interestingly, as cool and high tech as a DNA scanner seems, a hand-print scanner would not have been fooled that way. Clones and identical twins have the same DNA, but their fingerprints are different.