ABC Warriors...

[Art]

Hang on - is this the same Mek-Quake who works in the Nerve Centre? How can that be?

Hmm, interesting, I guess Mek-Quake, Ro-Jaws and Hammerstein AREN'T special protected Pat Mills characters after all, but just ropey old "house characters".

[Devons Daddy]

so pat can use other people characters? but they cant use his.
I C ok right then.

i have a copy of that BAX the burner one,it was a ro busters tale, with BAX looking for his former nurse,whom had gone to work for MR ten percente.

outstanding art work, good solid thrill,worth searching out.

[paulvonscott]

You know Art, I would argue that point (and I think as usual there is a reasonable point to be made), but I'm by now pretty fucking sick of people bitching about Pat Mills all the time.  The fact it's on a thread I started just to ask a simple unpolitical question is pretty galling.

It's become such an ingrained part of the message board, to actually look for (and in some cases project) really diseased motives and beliefs onto almost every aspect of his behaviour and work, that I don't think many people even consider what they are saying anymore as offensive.

There are other 2000AD creators who appear on the board to shout down anyone who even smells like they are going to be critical about their strips.  And have regularly browbeaten people into agreeing that their work isn't as shit as it first seemed.

Never mind the really personal attacks, that usually seem reserved for those who are declared trolls and are therefore 'legitimate targets' and anything goes.  I suppose when you know someone isn't going to take you to task for your views, then it's a lot easier to make them.

If you don't understand where I'm coming from, then if we take the Holy Cow of 2000AD, John Wagner (who I have the same amount of respect for by the way) and people were to start maligning his motives, seizing and picking apart any public comment made, attributing petulance to his past arguments with 2000AD owners, or ascribing right wing views to his work, then you (and I) might reasonably take issue with them.

An no, I'm not asking for a negative comparison between Wagner and Mills. As always I don't defend everything that Pat Mills has written, and if you don't like Slaine as a story, or any of Pat Mill's writing, that's fine.  I don't take issue with that.

I didn't bother with the last Slaine thread, and I won't bother with future threads if I can help it, because it's become apparent that having the sort of contradictory views I have is just seen as causing trouble.  And really you are pretty much happier arguing over the degree of how evil/incompetant/petty Mills is amongst yourselves.

So, that's my rant, it's not a reaction to one little jibe from Art, but countless such comments and much worse from the great wide message board.  I tried changing the title to 'you are all a bunch of cocks', but for some reason I'm not allowed to.

Feel free to leave this in stony silence, or bitch back, but I don't think I have anything more to say.  I don't think I can change popular opinion, but at least I've had my say.

Thank you

[Byron Virgo]

Actually. without wishing to protract the thread further, I have to agree completely with Paul on this one. I've also felt that Mills can often get a raw deal from the fans - admittedly, I only came back to 2000AD relatively recently, so I may have missed a lot of dross, but I've never quite understood why Wagner is so feted whilst Mills is practically despised. They've both written great strips, and they've both written a load of rubbish too - they're writers, so it's part and parcel of the job.

As far as I can see, they both seem to be writing pretty damn good stories at the moment, which I'm certainly enjoying reading, at least in the most part.

[IndigoPrime]

I think it's because Mills went a long time writing only "khaos" crap, and also because he's managed to totally wreck previously exciting characters. Slaine is at best a shadow of his former self and at worst a total embarrassment. Although Dredd can at times be mediocre when written by Wagner, it's never truly dire, but that's not the case for Mills. Also, Wagner gets across his own personal politics at times without resorting to being overtly preachy.

[Noisybast]

I do think there's a tendency to pick n Pat Mills, and it's probably a bit unfair. I can see why, though.

In his day, he was one of the finest writers around, creating truly groundbreaking, exciting characters and strips. Later on, he went all pagan and turned every story he wrote into a sermon, destroying (or at least damaging) several well-loved strips in the process. Of late, he does seem to be getting his mojo back, at least in fits and starts. Slaine is definitely looking past its best, though.

I think it's just frustrating to see such mediocre work coming from a writer who has proven himself to be capable of infinitely better work.

[dweezil2]

Right behind Paul on this subject aswell. Been feeling the need to to respond to all this anti Mills vitriol, but just couldn't summon the energy. Think it's all getting a bit tiresome, to be honest. All the writers have had an off period, can't remember anyone else getting as much flak. Mill's has written his fair share of duds-so has wagner, come to that. But Wagner seems to be some sacred cow, you dare not criticize. I've cosistently enjoyed the latest Slaine(dodgy politics included)and the recent ABC WARRIOR strips have been some of the best ever. His recent output is certainly been a damn site better than the FINN era. But what do i know, i just read the fucking thing.

[IndigoPrime]

Frankly, if Wagner went nearly a decade without writing anything half-decent, I'm pretty sure people would be laying into him on a regular basis.

[Devons Daddy]

i geuss pat gets it in the neck due to his handling of the whole ITS MY CHARACTER thing.
which is fine when you look at a business,
disney do it with mickey mousse after all.

but he goes after the man in the street,
if Disney where to start posting notices about children drawing pictures of their characters and putting them in places people could see them im sure plently would have something to say.

there are plenty of examples of the fact, Pat sets himself up for the knee jerk reactions he gets.

though his recent stuff has been outstanding.
(excluding that dire self indulgent satanus stuff)

[IndigoPrime]

Mills ranting about character ownership is nothing like Disney doing the same with the mouse. The nearest equivalent would be Rebellion itself protecting its IP, not Mills. Remember, Mills doesn't actually "own" any of the characters he's created for 2000 AD, and the only reason editors let him get away with such claims is because otherwise he acts like a spoiled brat (see: Rennie's Satanus story).

However, I still think the fact he wrote crap for years is what counts against him, not anything else. As for his current work, it's certainly an improvement, but still feels rather old-hat at times.

[Jared Katooie]

The reason people lay into Pat Mills is not because they do not like his writing. It may not even be because he gets huge portions of the prog allocated to himself. However the fact that Pat believes himself to be RIGHT all the time and everyone else to be WRONG is irritating to many fans.

Pat is more than capable of insulting other people if he feels there's justification (he didn't have to attack Andy Diggle in interviews, he didn't have to call him 2000AD's worst editor ever - he chose to) so he himself should be willing to suffer criticism if he fails to deliver.

Hearing people drone on about Mills and his faults as a person or a writer can be annoying but sometimes it's justified and that's just the way it is.

[Oddboy]

He has stated that he doesn't write for 'the fans' - so no wonder a lot of fans don't like what he does!

I'm really liking the recent run on ABC Warriors - that's top stuff. Sl?ine is alright, better then it has been, not as good as it used to be. Savage (for me) is a mixed bag. Black Siddha I've enjoyed.

I was going to say other stuff, but I've said it all before, you've said it all before, the guy over there's said it before... circles & circles.

[Funtwangle]

i dont really know anything about pat mills as the person
but everything he wrote since i started reading was shit

[Oddboy]

When did you start reading?

[Funtwangle]

i started at 800 or so

dont think i ever thought any strip by mills was any good in that time

im sure there was something i just cant think what