I just read 'The Judge Child Quest' for the first time - it was amazing! (Many thanks to Stu101 who gave me the Fleetway/Quality trade paperback of this story in colour. :-) ) I dont think I've ever read a story with such a range of people, places and mad adventures. I also thought the ending was stunning too [spoiler] where Dredd leaves the Judge Child because he believes he's evil and so can't help the city after all.[/spoiler] It was so unexpected and very very Dredd. Great writing there I thought.
I think this is easily one of my favourite stories. The only bit I didn't like was Dredd's obsession with Judge Faro's facial hair and the way Dredd was so harsh about Faro being the one to take the oracle spice. It was still very much how I see Dredd I think, he puts his view of being a Judge and his comittment to protect the city first and expects everyone else to do the same, but it really shows the harsher side of him as a character. Although I didn't like it, it certainly made for a more complex story, as John Wagner says 'Dredd as villian'.
My favourite parts of the story were:
- Texas City Mutieworld Danger Park
- The EB4 Mining platform
- The Tale of Buggo on Ombra
- The man with Jigsaw disease
- and of course the show down with the Angel Gang on Xanadu
So anyone else like this story? What are your views on the facial hair thing? Why was Dredd going on about it so much? Is Dredd and hero or a villian (I kind of think both)?Any favourite parts of this story?
Jo
The facial hair thing was rather over the top, I thought, but fairly typical of Dredd of the day. He's 'relaxed' a bit more over the years, and has since shown regret over Judge Lopez, to the point [spoiler]it was revealed he'd kept Lopez's badge, as a reminder about taking responsibility, or possibly just penance[/spoiler].
I've just recently re-read the story myself, in the Case Files collection (Volume 4), and it's still a corker! Agree 100% about the ending. For me it works to make Dredd fell more like a hero, in that he's not prepared to countenance evil. But yes, the anti-moustache tirade certinaly puts him in the 'bastard' camp.
My favourite bits, apart from the ending, are mostly to so with the art - which survives the Case Files paper, but I doubt it's the best way to read it. Ron Smith's astonishing crowd scenes at Filmore Faro's parade; Mike McMahon's amazing rendering of the TC Amusement Park, especially the big leap. Of course Brian Bolland's jigsaw man. I do love the father/son relationship between Pa and Junior Angel, makes me chuckle every time he begs to do just one more bit of torture/murder.
If you liked this story, you've gotta get hold of the Cursed Earth. The art is just as good, and some of the stories are off the chain bonkers.
http://megacitybookclub.blogspot.co.uk/2016/10/mega-city-book-club-16-judge-child-quest.html
Three words: Rinus Limpopop Quince
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 16 June, 2017, 12:07:00 PM
The facial hair thing was rather over the top, I thought, but fairly typical of Dredd of the day. He's 'relaxed' a bit more over the years, and has since shown regret over Judge Lopez, to the point [spoiler]it was revealed he'd kept Lopez's badge, as a reminder about taking responsibility, or possibly just penance[/spoiler].
That's really interesting. It shows the maturity which the character has developed over the years. (It makes me feel better about Dredd too - kind of humanises him.) He is such a paradoxical character sometimes - so fierce and strict so he seems like someone you wouldn't want to meet and yet he's got a good heart and he's no less strict with himself. It's this depth that really hooks me into the Dredd universe.
Quote from: AlexF on 16 June, 2017, 12:13:09 PM
I've just recently re-read the story myself, in the Case Files collection (Volume 4), and it's still a corker! Agree 100% about the ending. For me it works to make Dredd fell more like a hero, in that he's not prepared to countenance evil. But yes, the anti-moustache tirade certinaly puts him in the 'bastard' camp.
My favourite bits, apart from the ending, are mostly to so with the art - which survives the Case Files paper, but I doubt it's the best way to read it. Ron Smith's astonishing crowd scenes at Filmore Faro's parade; Mike McMahon's amazing rendering of the TC Amusement Park, especially the big leap. Of course Brian Bolland's jigsaw man. I do love the father/son relationship between Pa and Junior Angel, makes me chuckle every time he begs to do just one more bit of torture/murder.
If you liked this story, you've gotta get hold of the Cursed Earth. The art is just as good, and some of the stories are off the chain bonkers.
Absolutely - the art was great - all the way through. I really liked the big leap too.
The father-son thing between Pa and Junior was excellent, I totally agree. I find it amazing that the characters are so strong given that we're looking at comic art. How do they do so very much with so few words? It's a real skill. There again I think this a strength of 2000AD generally which is lacking quite often in other comics.
As for the cursed earth I think I'm going to have to get it. I've been repeatedly hovering over the 'buy' button on that one for months now. Is it worth getting the uncensored one? (Also is this published in colour anywhere does anyone know?)
Quote from: norton canes on 16 June, 2017, 03:46:21 PM
Three words: Rinus Limpopop Quince
Oh that story was nuts! I really liked the idea of the bag he had. Those space-warp globes Rinus had reminded my quite a bit of Johnny Alpha's time-bombs. I kept wondering what Johnny would do if he had space-warp globes as well - could make for a great SD story.
Quote from: JoFox2108 on 16 June, 2017, 04:34:11 PM
As for the cursed earth I think I'm going to have to get it. I've been repeatedly hovering over the 'buy' button on that one for months now. Is it worth getting the uncensored one? (Also is this published in colour anywhere does anyone know?)
Stop hovering and buy. The uncensored version is the one to get as it includes previously banned episodes and the fantastic colour splash pages.
Ranks as one of my favourite Dredd epics.
The facial hair thing is one of my favourite things about it. At first it just seems like running gag that gradually loses its humour, but it leads to a terrible fate for Lopez and in a brillaintly realised scene (by Bolland) that includes a giant toad with a moustache. I like the way kind of turns dark unexpectedly.
I also re-read Judge Child recently and since I've commented on it a bit laterly I'll do that most egotistical of things and do the self quote from my self-absorbed thread... please believe me this is driven my laziness rather than a sense of self worth...
Quote...well I'm up to Prog 169 and while 'The Judge Child' started really well, once it blasted off and lurches off into space I've found it a little ... unrestrained. It still looks magnificent and while the strip is not as good as Dredd has been for a good long time its still pretty bloomin' good comics. Its just not great. Its lacks some of the grounding that has made previous run of shorts work... which okay sounds nonsense when you think of some of the stuff that has gone before, but for me the out and out space type sci-fi (please Butchy Frank lets not turn this into some what is sci-fi and what isn't discussion) just doesn't feel quite right.
Hard to justify and qualify why I feel like this and while Judge Child follows essentially the same formula as Cursed Earth for some reason its lost the rugged challenge, the desperate journey of the first epic so viseral and real as Dredd and crew get slowly more and more ragged. The quest for the spacey soothsayer spice feels a little forced and tacked on. The craziness lacks the harsh landscape that provides a counterpoint in the earlier epic... or maybe its the fact that it is just following the same structure as Cursed Earth, a story I regard so very highly... I don't know its just not working for me... well not as well as Dredd has of late. Its probably still absolutely brilliant and probably still the best comics out there in 1980, just not as good as the standard Dredd has set itself.
The Judge Child is possibly my favourite Dredd story of all time. There are just so many stand out scenes. At the risk of missing out some, those that come to mind most readily are:
- garbage
- the chap in the TC theme park trying in vain to avoid his predicted death
- Dredd telling Winslow to sling his hook
- the ongoing dynamic between Pa and Junior and Junior's down right meanness (a way better character than Mean IMO)
- the Jigsaw man
- the war game and the commentators commentary on it
- Dredd trying to bribe the populous of the planet for info on the Angel Gang's whereabouts and the attempt by one of them to mug him
- Link and Mean's treatment of the prospector and Dredd's subsequent show down with them
- the show down with Pa and Junior, especially Junior's reaction to be thrown to his death
- Bolland's art
- Rob Smith's art
- Mike McMahon's art especially in the TC theme park
And that's without even mentioning Dredd's "death", moustache-gate and that most shocking of endings.
Do get the Cursed Earth, but I much prefer the Judge Child.
You should follow up with
City of the Damned
It follows on from the threads of the Judge Child.
Quote from: The Enigmatic Dr X on 17 June, 2017, 12:43:59 PM
You should follow up with
City of the Damned
It follows on from the threads of the Judge Child.
As long as he reads
The Fink and
Destiny's Angels first, o'course...
That's maybe my favourite aspect of The Judge Child, it keeps having all these reprucussions for years afterward. Later still you've got
Darkside too, before
In the Year 2120 puts the whole thing to bed for good.
Quote from: Dark Jimbo on 17 June, 2017, 01:07:47 PM
Quote from: The Enigmatic Dr X on 17 June, 2017, 12:43:59 PM
You should follow up with
City of the Damned
It follows on from the threads of the Judge Child.
As long as he reads The Fink and Destiny's Angels first, o'course...
Skip the one where the other Angels got reincarnated though...
I'm sorry, I don't know what you mean. There never was such a story.
Quote from: Magnetica on 17 June, 2017, 09:23:47 AM
The Judge Child is possibly my favourite Dredd story of all time. There are just so many stand out scenes. At the risk of missing out some, those that come to mind most readily are:
- garbage
- the chap in the TC theme park trying in vain to avoid his predicted death
- Dredd telling Winslow to sling his hook
- the ongoing dynamic between Pa and Junior and Junior's down right meanness (a way better character than Mean IMO)
- the Jigsaw man
- the war game and the commentators commentary on it
- Dredd trying to bribe the populous of the planet for info on the Angel Gang's whereabouts and the attempt by one of them to mug him
- Link and Mean's treatment of the prospector and Dredd's subsequent show down with them
- the show down with Pa and Junior, especially Junior's reaction to be thrown to his death
- Bolland's art
- Rob Smith's art
- Mike McMahon's art especially in the TC theme park
And that's without even mentioning Dredd's "death", moustache-gate and that most shocking of endings.
Do get the Cursed Earth, but I much prefer the Judge Child.
I think I will have to get the Cursed Earth - no question! Too many people have said too many good things about it. :-) (BTW I really enjoyed all of those bits which you listed as stand out scenes.)
Quote from: sheridan on 17 June, 2017, 03:31:39 PM
Quote from: Dark Jimbo on 17 June, 2017, 01:07:47 PM
Quote from: The Enigmatic Dr X on 17 June, 2017, 12:43:59 PM
You should follow up with
City of the Damned
It follows on from the threads of the Judge Child.
As long as he reads The Fink and Destiny's Angels first, o'course...
Skip the one where the other Angels got reincarnated though...
Quote from: Dark Jimbo on 17 June, 2017, 03:34:31 PM
I'm sorry, I don't know what you mean. There never was such a story.
'City of the Damned' sounds good. I've actually read
'Destiny's Angels' too. This is an 8 part 2000AD Dredd story where Mean Machine get's reincarnated and joins up with the Fink to help the Judge Child wreak revenge on Dredd. It's progs 281-288 if the page I looked up online is right. I read it in two Eagle Comics. It was the first time I'd ever seen the Fink. Oh my goodness - he's fabulous! I think he's my number one villian in Dredd. I just love it that he's such a weirdo!
The best thing about The Judge Child is that it marks the beginning of a more mature tone in the stories. Up until then they were squarely aimed at young children, but it gets a bit darker, and Dredd gets noticeably tougher, from the first episode ("I kept my promise. You're out of the quicksand!"). And later on Xanadu, "I'm the one you should be afraid of." Case Files 4 is an excellent place to start reading (if you wanted to skip the more '70s stuff).
Quote from: Eamonn Clarke on 16 June, 2017, 01:21:35 PM
http://megacitybookclub.blogspot.co.uk/2016/10/mega-city-book-club-16-judge-child-quest.html
Just listened to this - great stuff - really interesting!
Quote from: Richard on 17 June, 2017, 06:20:37 PM
The best thing about The Judge Child is that it marks the beginning of a more mature tone in the stories. Up until then they were squarely aimed at young children, but it gets a bit darker, and Dredd gets noticeably tougher, from the first episode ("I kept my promise. You're out of the quicksand!"). And later on Xanadu, "I'm the one you should be afraid of." Case Files 4 is an excellent place to start reading (if you wanted to skip the more '70s stuff).
I hadn't realised that previous to this the stories were different. I certainly like the more mature style now. I remember buying 2000ad as a child in the early 80's (I think I was about 12) and not really understanding the whole thing. I didn't get it. I was looking for stories similar to those I'd seen on TV like 'Buck Rogers in the 25th Century', 'Battlestar Galactica' and 'Space 1999' in comic form but what I read seemed really mental. I suspect that I didn't have the maturity to get it.
I started reading Dredd at case files 12, when it goes colour. (I find some black and white strip's difficult to interpret). I'm also trying to get versions of earlier strip's where they were later coloured. This is what happened with 'The Judge Child'. I've got a coloured version - thanks to Stu101.
Fleet way did four excellent volumes of black and white stories coloured in properly:
https://www.comics.org/issue/49286/ (https://www.comics.org/issue/49286/)
https://www.comics.org/issue/48887/ (https://www.comics.org/issue/48887/)
https://www.comics.org/issue/48645/ (https://www.comics.org/issue/48645/)
(//)
https://www.comics.org/issue/49522/ (https://www.comics.org/issue/49522/)
Quote from: Richard on 20 June, 2017, 10:12:57 PM
Fleet way did four excellent volumes of black and white stories coloured in properly:
https://www.comics.org/issue/49286/ (https://www.comics.org/issue/49286/)
https://www.comics.org/issue/48887/ (https://www.comics.org/issue/48887/)
https://www.comics.org/issue/48645/ (https://www.comics.org/issue/48645/)
(//)
https://www.comics.org/issue/49522/ (https://www.comics.org/issue/49522/)
Wow, these look great. I'm going to get in touch with some comic shops who deal in older comics and see if they can source any. Thanks!!!
They're on ebay and Amazon.
From the days of Rian Hughes doing the design work. Fleetway did some gorgeous collections back then. Chopper and America were also wonderful.
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 21 June, 2017, 01:59:14 PM
From the days of Rian Hughes doing the design work. Fleetway did some gorgeous collections back then. Chopper and America were also wonderful.
EDIT: This auction (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/judge-dredd-bad-science-tpb-/252970948602?hash=item3ae63e57fa:g:eJIAAOSwhvFZBy7X) also shows off some of the colouring work. Not too shabby.
Quote from: Richard on 21 June, 2017, 09:57:10 AM
They're on ebay and Amazon.
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 21 June, 2017, 01:59:59 PM
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 21 June, 2017, 01:59:14 PM
From the days of Rian Hughes doing the design work. Fleetway did some gorgeous collections back then. Chopper and America were also wonderful.
EDIT: This auction (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/judge-dredd-bad-science-tpb-/252970948602?hash=item3ae63e57fa:g:eJIAAOSwhvFZBy7X) also shows off some of the colouring work. Not too shabby.
Thanks guys! I just ordered all four from Amazon. I feel like a six year old on Christmas Eve!!! Can't wait to read them. The colour does look excellent!
Let us know what you make of the stories. There are some classics and old favourites there.
Quote from: Richard on 21 June, 2017, 04:12:40 PM
Let us know what you make of the stories. There are some classics and old favourites there.
Will do. :cool:
Quote from: JoFox2108 on 16 June, 2017, 04:34:11 PM
That's really interesting. It shows the maturity which the character has developed over the years. (It makes me feel better about Dredd too - kind of humanises him.) He is such a paradoxical character sometimes - so fierce and strict so he seems like someone you wouldn't want to meet and yet he's got a good heart and he's no less strict with himself. It's this depth that really hooks me into the Dredd universe.
I think the writer's tend to echo Hershey's words from
Total War with moments like that. Dredd attempted to hand in his badge when he tried to save Vienna from a bombing instead of being impartial as a Judge should be. Hershey refused and told him it did him good to be Human now and again. Moments like Lopez's badge and relationship with Vienna help to keep him grounded from time to time. They show that, rare as they are for him to display, he does feel emotions like shame, regret and familial loyalty.
Quote from: Rudolph88 on 14 August, 2017, 02:19:39 PMThey show that, rare as they are for him to display, he does feel emotions like shame, regret and familial loyalty.
Or 'dereliction of duty and favouritism' as I would call it. Running off after your niece in the aftermath of a nuclear detonation, riding past other injured citizens as you go; then years later stopping for a cuppa in said niece's flat as your city dies around you. Sounds like the kind of thing that gets other judges who aren't besties with the Chief Cheez and the head of the SJS busted down to the Auxiliaries to me.
Quote from: norton canes on 16 June, 2017, 03:46:21 PM
Three words: Rinus Limpopop Quince
Indeed. The moment I finally took notice of, and fell in love with, the Ronster. Brilliant, brilliant stuff.
I've said before on here, that the JCQ feels like the forgotten Dredd epic in a lot of ways, but it really is aces. All 3 artists on super top form.
Keep meaning to track down the old Titan reprints for a much needed re-read.
As a matter of interest, does the Uncensored edition (or any previous editions) contain the sort-of-epilogue to the Judge Child Quest, drawn by Brian Bolland?
Quote from: sheridan on 14 August, 2017, 08:27:54 PM
As a matter of interest, does the Uncensored edition (or any previous editions) contain the sort-of-epilogue to the Judge Child Quest, drawn by Brian Bolland?
Yes, I think the original Titan book reprints include the Bolland episode with the council of five discussing and voting on Dredd's decision.
And the indispensable Casefiles 4, of course (which also has The Fink, Pirates of the Black Atlantic, Otto Sump and Unamerican Graffiti- I mean dear Grud what a volume!) 'Block War' should be considered the last episode/epilogue of the Judge Child, and never separated from it.
It's an odd one, the Judge Child. Starts quite well, has quite a flabby middle - basically, all the stuff in space - and properly comes to life at the end, more or less at the exact point Alan Grant comes on-board, and the black humour gets cranked up a further notch. And then the epilogue's better than the entire story.
Quote from: Greg M. on 15 August, 2017, 10:19:42 AM
...has quite a flabby middle...
Flabby middles are very underrated, and I speak from personal experience. The 'space stuff', while obviously largely irrelevant to the plot, oracle-spice-yadda-yadda, is the best bit: it's the spectacle that justifies the story, and what a spectacle it is.
The usual accusation that Dredd-in-space stories don't work because of the absence of the City seems to miss the point that space
can be just as wacky and engaging a backdrop or foil, it just has to be rendered by McMahon, Ron Smith and Bolland.
It's maybe less the absence of the city, more the absence of world-building, at least at this stage in the strip's existence. The interstellar shenanigans are fun enough, and undoubtedly spectacularly well-drawn, but bar the odd fan-pleasing call-back years down the line, they're swiftly left behind and onto the next. The one highpoint is Murd - I'd happily have lost Agros and Lesser Lingo and had more of the Necromancer.
Where I think the epic does score in lasting impact is in terms of character. Hershey, Krysler, Dredd-as-Bastard, and most of all, the Angel Gang. The last six episodes are brilliant - much more visceral, mean-spirited (pun intended) and grounded.
(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r182/Caliban_photos/Mega%20City%20Book%20Club/episode16s_zpsos3wwdu8.jpg)
[Relentless self-promotion]
http://megacitybookclub.blogspot.co.uk/2016/10/mega-city-book-club-16-judge-child-quest.html
[/Relentless self-promotion]
But it is free. :D
Quote from: Greg M. on 15 August, 2017, 11:26:17 AM
It's maybe less the absence of the city, more the absence of world-building, at least at this stage in the strip's existence. [...] they're swiftly left behind and onto the next [...] Where I think the epic does score in lasting impact is in terms of character.
Agreed and agreed, but only if it's 2017 and we're looking at Judge Child in terms of its legacy. In the moment, on the page, that crazy stuff is where it's at. I wouldn't sacrifice a panel of Agross for another page of character development: that stuff is vital, but it's only worthwhile because it takes place in such a rich and deeply silly context, aka the
Judge Dredd strip. 'Death of a Legend' needed McGruder legislating on the pie-to-the-face craze and chucking snakes about to make it so poignant.
Quote from: TordelBack on 15 August, 2017, 12:23:51 PM
Agreed and agreed, but only if it's 2017 and we're looking at Judge Child in terms of its legacy. In the moment, on the page, that crazy stuff is where it's at.
It's a fair point - I wasn't reading 2000AD at the time it was published, so I've only ever viewed Judge Child retrospectively, which is a different experience.
shame it was retconned so that Pa and Junior survived
Quote from: pert on 04 January, 2018, 12:28:32 PM
shame it was retconned so that Pa and Junior survived
Only until the retcon was retconned so that IT NEVER HAPPENED.
It's a rare example of a John Wagner story Tharg should have said no to.
It does have it's weaknesses to be sure, but I wonder if some of that stems from a tendency to view it as a single coherent story rather than a collection of tales tied together with a common idea. It does seem to me that the structure to the early 'epics' tends to be quite different to, for instance, the Apocalypse War. That did feel like the first attempt to tell a single Dredd story over an extended period of time.
The Cursed Earth Saga, Day the Law Died, Judge Child Quest and the Lunar Marshall stories tend to be more thematically / locationally linked. They are far more episodic in nature, with substrands running for several issues at a time or simply as standalone stories that are interesting vignettes but don't really move the story along much
Greg M, I would agree that reading JCQ as a back prog experience is different to as part of the original audience. I do think we occasionally forget the demographic of the readership back then (okay, how old we actually were at the time!) and what that implies for sophistication. Not to mention editorial conventions at the time.
Oh, and Sheridan, the Titan volume does include the Block War episode. Makes the Mega Collection omission all the more bizarre.
Quote from: Tjm86 on 04 January, 2018, 03:26:26 PM
The Cursed Earth Saga, Day the Law Died, Judge Child Quest and the Lunar Marshall stories tend to be more thematically / locationally linked.
Fair enough on the others, but The Day the Law Died is pretty squarely one coherent story. Which, in part due to lack of variety, isn't a patch on Cursed Earth (though there's a lot to love about it, mostly Cal himself.)
Yeah I'd say both Cursed Earth and Judge Child have a similar structure. At a guess to enable the world to be developed more, both have a core plot and story but are essentially a series of related shorts delving into new parts of Dredd's world.
The Day The Law Died is much more similar to Apoclypse War as being a single story across many episodes.
Fair point. I guess at times DTLD just feels a bit like a Dredd on the run strip, morphing into the revolution, morphing into Klegg Invasion then finally the attack on Cal but actually on reflection I am happy to be corrected in that respect and view them more as chapters in a story / acts in a play. So; yes it is closer in narrative structure to Apocalypse War.
Quote from: Greg M. on 04 January, 2018, 07:00:28 PM
Quote from: Tjm86 on 04 January, 2018, 03:26:26 PM
The Cursed Earth Saga, Day the Law Died, Judge Child Quest and the Lunar Marshall stories tend to be more thematically / locationally linked.
Fair enough on the others, but The Day the Law Died is pretty squarely one coherent story. Which, in part due to lack of variety, isn't a patch on Cursed Earth (though there's a lot to love about it, mostly Cal himself.)
A more recent example: Tour of Duty - thematically linked by taking place in the Cursed Earth during Dredd's time of 'exile' but featuring discrete stories.