Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi

[SIP]

Unlike The Last Jedi, which is a machine-tooled, precision mechanism of coherent story-telling and plotting, which explained everything so well, and slotted right into the previous film's world-building.

The Last Jedi deals with the 'mysteries' it inherits head-on, and wrong-foots us with its solutions. Revenge of the Sith just skips from one setup (the Prequels) to another (the OT) without doing anything with its long-standing puzzles.

It was Last Jedi's constant need to "wrong-foot" the audience that worked to its detriment I feel. Things that had been set up as intriguing and potentially exciting, we're flipped constantly into something anti climatic. They overdid it, and in doing so robbed episode 9 of a lot of its potential.

[SIP]

You know that moment on the cliff with luke you waited for......cheap gag, nothing to see here.  Remember that mysterious leader snoke.....yeah, nothing to see here. Remember the mystery of Reys heritage.....yeah, nothing to see here.

Remember when you cared just a little of what might happen next? Yeah.....nothing to see here.

Kylo is the only character left of any interest. Rey, Finn and Poe were all robbed of any of the charm that they displayed in Force Awakens.

Damn.....I got sucked back into the last jedi debate....   

[Professor Bear]

The Last Jedi deals with the 'mysteries' it inherits head-on, and wrong-foots us with its solutions. Revenge of the Sith just skips from one setup (the Prequels) to another (the OT) without doing anything with its long-standing puzzles.

The Last Jedi takes the path of least resistance just like Sith does and resolves every dangling mystery in the easiest possible way.  "Who are Ray's parents?"  Nobody.  "Who is Snoke?"  Nobody.  "Why is Luke in hiding like a coward?"  Because he is.  "Why is Ben evil?"  He just is.

I'm surprised you won't give Sith the benefit of the doubt on some of your criticisms, though, TB, like the galaxy going into stasis for 19 years because Palpy has made plans across decades to ensure the Jedi simply have no moves left to play, while Obi-Wan defeats Anakin because Anakin was arrogant enough to believe he could jump just a little bit higher than he actually could.  I grant you that - like most of the PT - it works a bit better as a paradigm or romantic notion than it does as a narrative.

[manwithnoname]

Yeah, I love how they "wrong-footed" us with that cheap-as-fuck (literally) throw-away visual joke with the lightsaber.

Although no doubt it was to show us that our long-held beliefs in the righteousness of the Jedi Order/ Luke's beatification in the series so far/ whatever are being rightly vast aside for a brave new world of modern story-telling!

And that Canto Blight bit? Capitalism = child slavery and nasty weapons-dealers! AMIRIGHT!?

Fuck yeah, get Finn on some space-camels and wreck the joint, with whatever the fuck that annoying character was called.

Clunky and embarrassing.

[Link Prime]

I still think it's just completely awful in almost every way

Have to disagree with the word 'almost' in this quote.

[SIP]

I still think it's just completely awful in almost every way

Have to disagree with the word 'almost' in this quote.

I really liked Adam Driver in the film........so he alone earned the "almost". I WAS enjoying Snoke for a little bit, but then they ruined that.

And dear lord......that whole Canto Blight thing.....jesus......I felt like it really insulted my 9 year old sons intelligence.

[manwithnoname]

I still think it's just completely awful in almost every way

Have to disagree with the word 'almost' in this quote.

I really liked Adam Driver in the film........so he alone earned the "almost". I WAS enjoying Snoke for a little bit, but then they ruined that.

Emo Darth was, tragically, one of the most interesting characters in TLJ.

Admittedly being more interesting than Mary Sue Rey isn't hard, although she was much better in this film than The Force Awakens, so there's been improvement in both.

[SIP]

He's interesting AND entertaining to watch......and I for one am rooting for him being victorious and ruling the galaxy as a twisted, evil overlord by the end of 9. Now that would be a good twist.

Kylo for the win!

[manwithnoname]

He's interesting AND entertaining to watch......and I for one am rooting for him being victorious and ruling the galaxy as a twisted, evil overlord by the end of 9. Now that would be a good twist.

Yeah, because that's going to happen.

I don't think Disney have done a really dark and weird ending since The Black Hole in 1979

[JamesC]

TLJ is a far better film than ROTS. I agree with lot of points here on both sides though.

The film has lots of flaws but despite that I enjoyed it. Hamill is great despite some his material being less so and I'd agree that Kylo Ren is the most interesting character, with Driver being excellent.

To be honest I was more disappointed in Rey's ark than anything. Over the course of two films I don't think she's really become a character I know or care about the way I had with Luke, Leia and Han (and even the droids) by the end of ESB.

Long before these new sequels were a thing, my friend and I had a preferred scenario while imagining what might happen. This was that after ROTJ the new republic effectively outlaws force use. They've become paranoid about force users and understandably don't want people with mind control powers hanging around their newly formed government. As far as they know, the only trained force user left in the galaxy is Luke - so they give him a gold watch and tell him to begone (overruling and undermining Leia in the process).
I still quite like this idea and think it could have worked fairly well as an explanation for Luke's absence within the new trilogy.

[SIP]

I would argue that ROTS was a far better film than The Last Jedi. There are a lot of things I love in ROTS, not much for me to love in TLJ.

The Finn and Poe storylines are often so turgid, stupid, cringeworthy and preachy, that any good work done by Adam Driver and Mark Hamill (who is excellent in his portrayal of Jake) is completely lost.

ROTS has many problems, but none that overwhelm the film itself.

Any future viewings of last jedi will involve me skipping probably 90 minutes of its run time.

[Goaty]

But you went see it twice?

[SIP]

But you went see it twice?

Yes. The first time because I'm a star wars fan.

The second time because my older brother, who is the world's biggest star wars fan, was having an extremely hard time and wanted to see the film......so I went with him rather than him going alone.

Be under no illusion that I went because I wanted to see the film again!

As it turned out, it did not lift his mood.

[Tiplodocus]

Yeah, I love how they "wrong-footed" us with that cheap-as-fuck (literally) throw-away visual joke with the lightsaber.

Although no doubt it was to show us that our long-held beliefs in the righteousness of the Jedi Order/ Luke's beatification in the series so far/ whatever are being rightly vast aside for a brave new world of modern story-telling!

And that Canto Blight bit? Capitalism = child slavery and nasty weapons-dealers! AMIRIGHT!?

Fuck yeah, get Finn on some space-camels and wreck the joint, with whatever the fuck that annoying character was called.

Clunky and embarrassing.

She's called ROSE. And while it can be fun to pretend that you don't remember character names, it is also a tactic employed a lot by people who have an agenda deeper than film.criticism.

[Professor Bear]

I thought he meant Holdo.

On the subject of Rose, I assumed she was there as a deliberate sop to the overseas market, particularly the country of CharactersThatSuckia.