Prog 2050 - Epic Thrills!

[Jim_Campbell]

I must have missed that.  I saw a man desperately trying to be his old self again, but never succeeding.

Very much this.

[Richard]

Must have gone over my head at the time. Something to watch out for if I re-read it.

[Frank]

Zenith ... could, in theory, go back to his former youthfulness. That's exactly what Ruby did in Phase III and presumably Zenith has the same latent ability.

That scene (632) looks like the laying on of hands, to me. Dave and Penny talk about teaching Ruby, but it's a demonstration of their power. "The universe is potter's clay in our hands" and so is Ruby.

Presumably what they do to Ruby in Phase III is a less cruel version of what they do to Peyne in Phase IV.

Peyne doesn't have Maximan serum running through his veins, so reversing the ageing process doesn't appear to be an inherent property of superdom.*


*  It's a magic trick the Lloigor learn - same as terraforming cities and possessing other people. Zenith doesn't have that knowledge and doesn't seem interested in broadening his mind or his skill set.

[Steven Denton]

Zenith ... could, in theory, go back to his former youthfulness. That's exactly what Ruby did in Phase III and presumably Zenith has the same latent ability.

That scene (632) looks like the laying on of hands, to me. Dave and Penny talk about teaching Ruby, but it's a demonstration of their power. "The universe is potter's clay in our hands" and so is Ruby.

Presumably what they do to Ruby in Phase III is a less cruel version of what they do to Peyne in Phase IV.


Peyne doesn't have Maximan serum running through his veins, so reversing the ageing process doesn't appear to be an inherent property of superdom.*


*  It's a magic trick the Lloigor learn - same as terraforming cities and possessing other people. Zenith doesn't have that knowledge and doesn't seem interested in broadening his mind or his skill set.

I think you are wrong. The ability to appear younger is part of their assention/evolution. Zenith and St Jhon could do but chose not to. It's not long muted to cloud 9 and their descendants/clones. DJ chill evolves too, implying and superhuman could given the circumstances. What they do to Payne is unrelated.

[TordelBack]

Yeah, I'd have to agree with Steven.  The transformation of their physical bodies is just a sideshow aspect of their transcendence from the three-dimensional universe - it's a first step on becoming Lloigor, not a simple age-reversal - and what they do to Peyne is just a cruel and unrelated parlour trick. Whether Lux and Penny actually teach Ruby, or transform her themselves, is probably just circumsrtance: the technique is learnable once the potential is there.

The fact that Zenith's child with Blaze is capable of becoming Iok Sotot implies that this effect of the serum is also genetically heritable, so Zenith would be capable of doing it too: that he and Peter don't make use of it because it's not just magic botox, it's an abandoning of their humanity. 

[Steven Denton]

Zenith ... could, in theory, go back to his former youthfulness. That's exactly what Ruby did in Phase III and presumably Zenith has the same latent ability.

That scene (632) looks like the laying on of hands, to me. Dave and Penny talk about teaching Ruby, but it's a demonstration of their power. "The universe is potter's clay in our hands" and so is Ruby.

Presumably what they do to Ruby in Phase III is a less cruel version of what they do to Peyne in Phase IV.


Peyne doesn't have Maximan serum running through his veins, so reversing the ageing process doesn't appear to be an inherent property of superdom.*


*  It's a magic trick the Lloigor learn - same as terraforming cities and possessing other people. Zenith doesn't have that knowledge and doesn't seem interested in broadening his mind or his skill set.

I think you are wrong. The ability to appear younger is part of their assention/evolution. Zenith and St Jhon could do but chose not to. It's not limited to cloud 9 and their descendants/clones. DJ chill evolves too, implying any superhuman could given the circumstances. What they do to Payne is unrelated.

I wrote this on my phone whilst half asleep and the god dammed predictive text butchered it. I'm glade you understood what I was trying to say TordelBack

(Lux chooses to appear older right up until the middle of 4 except for when he's in his sparkly, gentile free, evolved form. For different reasons, it seems we agree that Zenith couldn't simply go back to being nineteen though.)   

[Taryn Tailz]

Greysuit was about as punk as Vera Lynn.

She was for her day, she emboldened us against the Nazis! 

Well played sir.

[Smith]

A solid prog.Promising start for Dredd.Robinsons RT was good,but its been done before.
Zenith story (or article) was pretty much what I expected.One statment there is oddly timed.

[Frank]

I think you are wrong.

I'm not sure you do, Steve. I disputed the characterisation of Ruby's Olay Regenerist treatment as the self activation of a 'latent ability'.

Dave and Penny can do that to Ruby (and to themselves) because they've learned "complete control over the structure of matter" (801), not some latent ability.

Describing a learned technique* as awakening an inherent power is like saying I passed my driving test because of a latent ability.


* ... even if the technique learned involves exploiting inherent abilities

[Steven Denton]

I think you are wrong.

I'm not sure you do, Steve. I disputed the characterisation of Ruby's Olay Regenerist treatment as the self activation of a 'latent ability'.

Dave and Penny can do that to Ruby (and to themselves) because they've learned "complete control over the structure of matter" (801), not some latent ability.

Describing a learned technique* as awakening an inherent power is like saying I passed my driving test because of a latent ability.


* ... even if the technique learned involves exploiting inherent abilities

No it isn't because passing your driving test and being a superhuman are not equatable.

the least important element of your interpretation was weather Ruby's changed was learnt (although given the rapid telepathic exchanges in book 4 I think it's fair to say your reading of her transformation is just one possibility)

You were completely wrong about Payne. Your agument was Ruby was changed and didn't how the power to change herself thus Zenith could not change himself. Which I also believe to be wrong, but at least open to interpretation, so not quite as wrong.

Zenith 'learns' telepathy and pyro powers without any real instruction. He's told he can do it, then he does it. He knows he can evolve, he chooses not too.

I am perfectly capable of thinking you are wrong and disagreeing with your interpretations.

[Magnetica]

Rogue - hmm ..I don't realy like these stories that recap previous events. But I can see why they would do that considering it's a jumping on Prog and the revamped game is out.

Deadworld- I had forgotten [spoiler]Jessie had been killed.[/spoiler]

[Steve Green]

[spoiler]No she wasn't - they think she's dead but she's rescued by the mutant kids that she shared food with earlier in that story[/spoiler]

[Frank]

I think you are wrong ... No it isn't ... the least important element of your interpretation ... You were completely wrong ... Which I also believe to be wrong ... I am perfectly capable of thinking you are wrong

I'm not sure what you're trying to say, Steve.

You, me and TordelBack agree on almost everything. The only thing you and I disagree on is whether Ruby restores her own youth or is rejuvenated by others.*


* prog 632

[Magnetica]

Thanks Steve.[spoiler]I did wonder if they had it wrong as I didn't remember it.[/spoiler]

[Steven Denton]

I think you are wrong ... No it isn't ... the least important element of your interpretation ... You were completely wrong ... Which I also believe to be wrong ... I am perfectly capable of thinking you are wrong

I'm not sure what you're trying to say, Steve.

You, me and TordelBack agree on almost everything. The only thing you and I disagree on is whether Ruby restores her own youth or is rejuvenated by others.*


* prog 632

We do agree on almost everything. I think the point of contention was if Zenith could, in theory, become young again. I think the strip establishes he could. I believe you were arguing he couldn't based on Ruby's de-aging (which although I disagree with you interpretation I see where you are coming from, and Payne's backwards aging, which I think you were mistaken over)

I initially thought that Zenith or St John evolving would be a dangerous step towards becoming a Lloigor, but I had forgotten that Chimira is 'thought unencomberd by flesh' much like the Lloigor, yet benign.

It's implied that Zenith has the powers of all of Task force UK, which presumably would include chimera.

I wouldn't like to see an ageless Zenith but nothing in the strip prohibits it or fully defines the consiquences.