I'm just spitballing here but I feel a little like the shift in the cultural landscape has had a devastating effect on the power of quotes from popular culture or references. Once upon a time everyone would quote from current shows (especially comedy).
One of my teachers at school made the mistake of starting our mocks instructions with the statement "listen very carefully ..." to which the entire hall responded in the appropriate accent, "I will say zis only once!" Fortunately he saw the humour in the situation.
How many times did we use quotes from Red Dwarf, Blackadder or Monty Python once upon a time and have everyone know what we were talking about? These days if you throw out the old ".. first on the left, one cross each ..." it is more likely to draw a bemused look.
It feels a little like there is nothing that is shared widely enough to be instantly and broadly recognisable in the same way. Granted there is little in the way of comedy worth watching at the moment but it seems like with the scale of the options available right now there are so few shared cultural spaces in the same way that there once was.
I don't know, am I getting jaded and cynical in my old age? :(
Quote from: Tjm86 on 27 June, 2020, 07:49:12 PM
Once upon a time everyone would quote from current shows.
This is the way. :-)
I blame Carole Baskin.
You ever notice there's a lot of kids called Khaleesi these days? I wonder what that's about.
Quote from: Professor Bear on 27 June, 2020, 09:14:20 PM
You ever notice there's a lot of kids called Khaleesi these days? I wonder what that's about.
You know nothing, Prof. Bear.
Quote from: Tjm86 on 27 June, 2020, 07:49:12 PM
I don't know, am I getting jaded and cynical in my old age? :(
I hate to be the one to have to tell you, Tjm86, but this is your inevitable future. (Though if it's any consolation, I'll most likely the be same...) ;)
https://tenor.com/view/victor-meldrew-idont-believe-it-gif-12333293
I thought a meme was a unit of cultural reference, but there's a whole new generation that think it's specifically some joke text on top of an image (and they'll win the long game).
(https://media.sproutsocial.com/uploads/meme-example.jpg)
"Friends don't lie."
"Wubba lubba dub dub!"
"Bat!"
(https://i.imgur.com/LfNbbOf.jpg)
Quote from: Funt Solo on 27 June, 2020, 11:13:10 PM
... there's a whole new generation that think it's specifically some joke text on top of an image (and they'll win the long game).
I think that this is my thing. There's not just this shift from being able to throw some sort of instantly recognisable phrase into a conversation as a way of emphasising a point (Victor Meldrew's "I don't belieeeeve it!" is another one that doesn't quite have the power it once did).
Is it the fact that the cultural pool is now becoming so fragmented? Is it the way memes propagate? Is it that actually far more socialising goes on electronically these days than physically?
:-*
There's definitely an argument for the cultural pool becoming more fragmented. Everyone knew those TV tropes in the 80s and 90s because there were only 4 TV channels; less choice meant that any given quote was more likely to be instantly recognisable even across generations or cultural groups. Now with the advent of streaming and everyone picking their own TV schedule that breaks down. I very much doubt I'm watching the same telly my uncles and aunts are these days but I bet there was at least some cross over in the 90s. Add to that the fact that there's a shift towards immersive computer games as a major form of plot driven entertainment. Lots of memes I don't immediately grok seem to originate from that sphere.
Then there are the weirder corners of the internet which seem to act as breeding grounds where in jokes can develop a life of their own. I mean who would have predicted Pepe the Frog would become a mascot for right wing politics? Or that anti-government libertarians would adopt Boogaloo, a reference to Breakin' 2: Electric Boogaloo, as slang for the coming civil war? And from there develop a flag with a Big Igloo on it? (https://preview.redd.it/v43dkonqt3841.png?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=81cacb019afc3254ff91b3e5e54a8a6ed0e46b0c)
I have no idea why one of the rows of that flag has a red floral pattern on it but I bet it has meaning to those in the know. One's ability to parse these references seems to be the new means of gatekeeping certain cultural spaces.
Quote from: M.I.K. on 28 June, 2020, 12:32:43 AM
"Friends don't lie."
"Wubba lubba dub dub!"
"Bat!"
I think you may be overestimating the cultural penetration of these. I have no idea what they mean.
The first is Eleven in Stranger Things, the second Rick in Rick & Morty, the third What We Do In The Shadows (I think!). Pretty high levels of penetration in the teen-adjacent market.
I don't want to get into a discussion of what an actual Dawkinsian meme is or isn't, but I don't think Monty Python or Princess Bride quotes have any more claim to be such than Easily Distracted Boyfriend or Fry Not Sure If.
I agree that the proliferation of individual screens has atomised pop-cultural consumption quite a bit, but I think that within the various generational and sub-generational bubbles the encoded meaning is going strong: it's just that it has spread far wider spatially and rather less universally chronologically.
Or to put it another way, we're old.
"I used to be with 'it', but then they changed what 'it' was. Now what I'm with isn't 'it' anymore and what's 'it' seems weird and scary. It'll happen to you!".
Quote from: TordelBack on 28 June, 2020, 12:46:53 PM
Or to put it another way, we're old.
TBH I'm getting that a hell of a lot. The number of times one of my colleagues responds with .. "but I was only born in ..." is getting bloody depressing. Mind you, having to explain the Cold War or the Warsaw Pact does tend to generate other feelings ...
Quote from: Tjm86 on 28 June, 2020, 02:54:20 PM
Quote from: TordelBack on 28 June, 2020, 12:46:53 PM
Or to put it another way, we're old.
TBH I'm getting that a hell of a lot. The number of times one of my colleagues responds with .. "but I was only born in ..." is getting bloody depressing. Mind you, having to explain the Cold War or the Warsaw Pact does tend to generate other feelings ...
You know that you're getting on in years, when you're twice as old as the combined age of two of the other members of the D&D group that you're in. (And I'm talking people in their 20's here... :( )
Quote from: paddykafka on 28 June, 2020, 03:13:53 PM
...when you're twice as old as the combined age of two of the other members of the D&D group that you're in. ..
Like butter, scraped over too much bread.
Tjm, wasn't trying to dismiss your observation by the way, just suggesting that at Our Age we might not be best placed to actually see where/how cultural transmission is going on. And we certainly aren't part of it.
An old meme for old peeps.
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/044/247/297.png)
Quote from: paddykafka on 28 June, 2020, 03:13:53 PM
Quote from: Tjm86 on 28 June, 2020, 02:54:20 PM
Quote from: TordelBack on 28 June, 2020, 12:46:53 PM
Or to put it another way, we're old.
TBH I'm getting that a hell of a lot. The number of times one of my colleagues responds with .. "but I was only born in ..." is getting bloody depressing. Mind you, having to explain the Cold War or the Warsaw Pact does tend to generate other feelings ...
You know that you're getting on in years, when you're twice as old as the combined age of two of the other members of the D&D group that you're in. (And I'm talking people in their 20's here... :( )
At least you have a D&D group.
Quote from: von Boom on 28 June, 2020, 04:35:56 PM
At least you have a D&D group.
This is true. (Or at least up to the point when they have to start pushing me around in a bath chair).
I have always found this to be more a family thing.
My extended family regularly quote Fawlty Towers and Still Game.
(If anyone hasn't watched Still Game, it is on Netflix and I would argue it is the greatest comedy of the last 20 years - plus ideal viewing for anyone grumpy about ageing).
Quote from: sintec on 28 June, 2020, 10:20:27 AM
Then there are the weirder corners of the internet which seem to act as breeding grounds where in jokes can develop a life of their own. I mean who would have predicted Pepe the Frog would become a mascot for right wing politics?
Least of all the guy who created the character (who is not in the slightest bit amused at how it's been appropriated by right-wing extremists).
Quote from: paddykafka on 28 June, 2020, 03:13:53 PM
You know that you're getting on in years, when you're twice as old as the combined age of two of the other members of the D&D group that you're in. (And I'm talking people in their 20's here... :( )
So you're in your eighties? I generally think of other boarders as being about five years older than me unless they say otherwise. I'm pretty surprised when I find out somebody's much younger or older...
Quote from: TordelBack on 28 June, 2020, 03:38:20 PM
Quote from: paddykafka on 28 June, 2020, 03:13:53 PM
...when you're twice as old as the combined age of two of the other members of the D&D group that you're in. ..
Like butter, scraped over too much bread.
Tjm, wasn't trying to dismiss your observation by the way, just suggesting that at Our Age we might not be best placed to actually see where/how cultural transmission is going on. And we certainly aren't part of it.
Firstly, Bilbo.
Secondly - I can't remember who said it, but there was one person on another thread a year or two back who, in the same post, was complaining that modern teenagers don't have their own music scene, but also that they hadn't checked out any new music for decades (and so if there was a new music scene they'd have been unaware of it).
Quote from: sheridan on 29 June, 2020, 10:33:43 AM
Quote from: paddykafka on 28 June, 2020, 03:13:53 PM
You know that you're getting on in years, when you're twice as old as the combined age of two of the other members of the D&D group that you're in. (And I'm talking people in their 20's here... :( )
So you're in your eighties? I generally think of other boarders as being about five years older than me unless they say otherwise. I'm pretty surprised when I find out somebody's much younger or older...
My quote should of course have read "...as old as the combined age..." minus the "twice" placed beforehand. (Grud, no! It's happening already!!! Once my previosh and hairto wunderfiil gifs 4 the yoooshe of languarjes has beegun to dimmmin.....fannish....go away, den dat's when ittt's time to kwit...
Quote from: TordelBack on 28 June, 2020, 03:38:20 PM
Tjm, wasn't trying to dismiss your observation by the way, just suggesting that at Our Age we might not be best placed to actually see where/how cultural transmission is going on. And we certainly aren't part of it.
Hey, now worries pal. I was just picking through some thoughts and felt it might be an idea to get a different perspective. I'm more than happy for people to call me out when I'm talking complete and utter bollocks (which I don't even need alcohol for!). In fact I positively encourage it.
Quote from: paddykafka on 29 June, 2020, 10:52:13 AM
Quote from: sheridan on 29 June, 2020, 10:33:43 AM
Quote from: paddykafka on 28 June, 2020, 03:13:53 PM
You know that you're getting on in years, when you're twice as old as the combined age of two of the other members of the D&D group that you're in. (And I'm talking people in their 20's here... :( )
So you're in your eighties? I generally think of other boarders as being about five years older than me unless they say otherwise. I'm pretty surprised when I find out somebody's much younger or older...
My quote should of course have read "...as old as the combined age..." minus the "twice" placed beforehand. (Grud, no! It's happening already!!! Once my previosh and hairto wunderfiil gifs 4 the yoooshe of languarjes has beegun to dimmmin.....fannish....go away, den dat's when ittt's time to kwit...
Welcome back, Cyberleader!
Quote from: sheridan on 29 June, 2020, 10:35:12 AMSecondly - I can't remember who said it, but there was one person on another thread a year or two back who, in the same post, was complaining that modern teenagers don't have their own music scene, but also that they hadn't checked out any new music for decades (and so if there was a new music scene they'd have been unaware of it).
I suspect the existence of a thread about the fragmentation of popular culture and how memes work might suggest that the above are not two incompatible points. You don't have to have listened to a single new song from the last 40 years to know that K-Pop is currently a thing*, or that the West hasn't had a breakout musical genre in quite a while.
* I don't know who or what BTS is, but even I know she/he/it/they are involved in some kind of gang beef with JK Rowling.
Kids today don't even know that All Your Base Are Belong to Us!
Not many things more tedious than a bunch of engineering students quoting Red Dwarf to each other. Bring on the smug cat I say.
Students quoting Python?