Well have to be honest with a line-up like this I'd rather have thought I'd have enjoyed this Prog a little more. Alas a couple of class acts have clunkers... well okay clunkers is pretty harsh, but episodes not of the standard I'd hope for.
We start of fine though with Dredd, beautifully rendered my Colin MacNeil as the tensions are built by Eglington in a great little story. Though maybe the end could have been spelt out a little more clearly. I mean that is [spoiler]Booth[/spoiler] right?
Slaine starts our troubles, it just felt so utterly functional like no care was taken in how things were moved on as long as things were moved on so all the pieces were in place at the end. Toss in a little back story which just felt so forced and before you know it we have a cliffhangers. This had no guile... which is something that could often be said of Pat Mills these days, but he did nowt to disguise this week!
Indigo Prime (still a John Smith episode) was fine and had some glorious touches but was putting its piece into place, admittedly with fair more guile and flare than the story that proceeded it and the cliffhanger here has real impact.
Now we all know I'm a big Sinister Dexter fan and while I was momentarily disappoint we don't get Steve Yeowell this time Jake Lynch quickly set that disappointment aside, do love his work. Alas he's not given Dabnett's finest here. S&D by the numbers and nothing to really make it stand out from the crowd... well except it wasn't quite as good as the normal S&D crowd. Little disappointing the nice touch with the 'fight commentry' aside.
As was Grey Area (its been a LONG time when I've been disappointed with much of anything by Dabnett, let alone to in one Prog). We had our new scenario and with that we're thrown straight it - which given I've winged about putting pieces in place above... well no pleasing some people I guess. Just it felt a little jarring. Grey Area has been turned with nah a blink of the eye into a full in war story. Bang bang, explosion , ARRRGGHHH guts splatter... I needed to be warmed up to this a little more I think.
So yeah this line-up has PLENTY of potential, if we could all just pull our socks up... Dredd, Joe and Prime, Indigo, you are excused.
Superb art by Lee Carter on Indigo Prime. Not a clue what's going on but some of those panels are just beautiful.
(https://i.imgur.com/f4SIiTL.jpg)
Great cover by David Millgate.
Think I've seen earlier versions in his portfolio at cons, and on the cover of his recent art book.
Quote from: Geoff on 01 October, 2017, 09:58:03 AM
Superb art by Lee Carter on Indigo Prime. Not a clue what's going on but some of those panels are just beautiful.
Not just me then lol.
Quote from: Eamonn Clarke on 01 October, 2017, 12:35:04 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/f4SIiTL.jpg)
Great cover by David Millgate.
Think I've seen earlier versions in his portfolio at cons, and on the cover of his recent art book.
Sure I saw that at the 40th - I seem to recall he said he'd drawn it and hoped to sell it to Tharg (i.e. it wasn't commissioned in advance). I'm sure Wellsbot will be along soon...
I'd urge anyone not understanding Indigo Prime to go back and read the whole back catalogue. I was in the same boat up until about a week ago and now I've read all the timeline it's one of my favourite thrills in the prog
I still cant get into Indigo Prime at all. and I have read some of the back stories , but its not for me.
The rest of the prog on the other hand is okay. Maybe I'm getting too old now and expecting too much from the weekly prog.
Quote from: petesbeats on 04 October, 2017, 09:15:40 AM
I'd urge anyone not understanding Indigo Prime to go back and read the whole back catalogue. I was in the same boat up until about a week ago and now I've read all the timeline it's one of my favourite thrills in the prog
Really?
there is a world of books. comics are stuff I love out there, why, oh why would I go back and re-read something that didn't/doesn't have any appeal to me?
Anyway you're all missing the mark, WhoTF is damage report about?
Is it a boarder? a droid? a OxfordDon? anyone know?
Highlight of the Prog is once again Colin McNeil's art in a cracking Dredd story,
The rest leaves me cold, first time in years that's happened so not too bothered.
there will be some crackers along in four weeks :D
Quote from: Proudhuff on 04 October, 2017, 04:38:17 PM
Quote from: petesbeats on 04 October, 2017, 09:15:40 AM
I'd urge anyone not understanding Indigo Prime to go back and read the whole back catalogue. I was in the same boat up until about a week ago and now I've read all the timeline it's one of my favourite thrills in the prog
Really?
there is a world of books. comics are stuff I love out there, why, oh why would I go back and re-read something that didn't/doesn't have any appeal to me?
I've always struggled with Indigo Prime. Even if I follow it for a couple of weeks it eventually loses me. This story managed it in week 2 (i.e. this week). I was just about clinging on last week.
Tracking down all the back Progs for it would be quite a task, one that I am not sure is worth the effort. I feel I
should enjoy John Smith's stuff, and goodness knows there are enough people on here that do, but when I lose the sense of what is happening, I then just read it and don't really take it in. Which means I'm not engaged with it, which means it's not enjoyable.
Frankly it's not just Indigo Prime but most things by John Smith (except Firekind, episodes printed out of order not withstanding). So it will be interesting to see how IP and Devlin Waugh pan out in this regard when written by someone else.
Contrast that with Zenith. I have recently re-read phases 1 to 4 and felt like I understood it perfectly well. I then read the thread from 2013 discussing it. That covered things I hadn't picked up on but which only added to the reading experience and made it worthwhile to go back and check what happened in certain episodes.
I like that complexity when it adds another layer to the story i.e. you can enjoy it without that. Whereas for me, the complexity in Indigo Prime just gets in the way of my enjoyment.
That's a bit harsh. Killing Time wasn't exactly hard to follow.
Maybe you'll do better with the current series if you wait for it to end and then read it all in one go. Even if there are some individual panels or pages you don't get, you'll still get the gist of it.
Cover: if you asked me to write a list of nineties Bisley camp followers I'd like to see return to paint a cover in the space year 2017, David Millgate's name would have appeared some time after the letters PTO. This is alright, though.
It's not really a cover - there's nothing dynamic or arresting about the static composition and one note colour scheme, and it's not building reader excitement at the prospect of seeing Dredd stand in a covered walkway during the story within - but it filled me with nostalgia for the days when Dredd dressed in blue leather that bulged and wrinkled like a badly stuffed sausage skin.
Damage Report: bit harsh. All he did was point out that the word colour/color was spelt inconsistently.
Dredd: the 'Huff is correct - MacNeil and Chris Blythe are imperious. The Mac Daddy rules whether flicking fifty shades of grey (matter) over Defoe or pushing the visual grammar of line art to new frontiers.
The way abstract areas of shadow are used in this and last week's episodes remind me of the way Revolution-era John Higgins used geometric blacks to suggest form.
Blythe's adjusted his aesthetic to complement MacNeil's simplified style; the subtle colours and textures bring out the best in Fort William's finest. I doubt MacNeil's got (even) better at drawing since Every Empire Falls, so it's the difference between Blythe and O'Grady's* colours that (felt) tips the scales.
Actually, I think MacNeil has improved in one respect. Even his best work, America included, sometimes exhibited a tendency towards Same Face. His latest work showcases a new talent for caricature; the variety of facial features on display in the crowd scenes rivals King Carlos's talent for grotesquerie.
Indigo Prime: will get its own post.
Sláine: Davis famously makes use of life models. From the way Sinead's blowing Sláine's horn - and appears to be storing a couple of plums in her cheeks - I'm guessing that page represents a fun (and relaxing) afternoon in the studio. Nice twisting wrist action, too.
In the recent Horned God Thrillcast, Mills describes how he worked long and hard developing Slough Feg's distinctive speech pattern. With the Archons' dialogue - IF NOT THEIR TYPEFACE - he has another winner. Can't wait to use
THE DAY OF YOUR DEATH IS PREFERRED TO THE DAY OF YOUR BIRTH
next time someone cuts me up in traffic.
Grey Area: Is naming a character (Edward) Said, in a story set in an Orient** filled with exoticised, inscrutable and merciless paladins, a little on the nose? The sudden change to war mode doesn't trouble me as much as fellow readers.
Sinister Dexter: the bdum-tish ending is less interesting than the way the story title and character names set you up for the groan worthy gag. Golden Rungs and The Serpent make it obvious with hindsight, but Pulled Pork and Gorgonzola seem a bit left field. Is the female player named after Ferguson, Missouri?
* I rate O'Grady highly. He's an excellent colourist, but I think Blythe just has the edge in adapting his style to suit MacNeil's high contrast inks
** The handwavy Victorian conception of The Orient that Edward Said railed against encompassed Vienna, Tokyo, and everything in between
Quote from: Frank on 04 October, 2017, 07:06:19 PM
With the Archons' dialogue - IF NOT THEIR TYPEFACE - he has another winner. Can't wait to use
THE DAY OF YOUR DEATH IS PREFERRED TO THE DAY OF YOUR BIRTH
next time someone cuts me up in traffic.
If you're looking to taunt somebody ineffectively & awkwardly, you can't go far wrong with Frank Sidebottom's classic football chant: "You're going home on an organised football coach..."
Cover: Nice. Technically accomplished (the lighting effect works well), atmospheric if not especially lively. Is it just me or does there seem to be a hint of pencil moustache?
I guess it can't be easy for an artist when they're commissioned to provide a Dredd cover and told "oh by the way, can you make it different from the other 800?". Personally - and I guess this could form a separate thread over on General - I'm not hugely keen on a preponderance of covers drawn by guest artists. Of course the results can be fantastic, but on the whole I miss the days when covers were drawn by the artist working on the strip. Guest artist covers seem a bit gratuitous a lot of the time, disconnected form the story they represent.
Oh yeah, and a word about the fonts used for the cover straplines... do we think it's time to go for a uniform font, perhaps one of those used in the Nerve Centre? I think it was give the comic a sense of cohesion. I know sometimes the choice of font is related to the story depicted but more often than not - and certainly this week - some naff generic font is used.
Dredd: I mean, a cover this week from Colin MacNeil giving another perspective on one of the frames from the story would have been amazing. I'd have gone for the moment when Dredd fires a smoke canister onto the crowd. All the frames showing the two judges in silhouette, with the lights from the Lawmasters behind them, were amazing. The story's pretty good too but like I said last week, it's continuity-heavy so not really one for new readers.
Slaine: THE FONT is growing on me... a bit. I think it's the star-tastic bubbles that are putting me off - coupled with the heavy type, they're too much. Anyway, I'm liking Pat's sharp, brutish writing style on this. Already the dark days of Greysuit book IV seem eons away!
Indigo Prime: I'm slowly falling for it.
Sin Dex: Far better than most of the recent Future Shocks, I'll give it that. Yeah, 'Golden Rungs' really had me puzzled at first - nice bit of foreshadowing. Shame that the board reveal was the second page of a spread, it gave the twist away a page early. I'd love to see Jake Lynch tag-teaming with Steve Yeowell on art duties.
Grey Area: TOP THRILL! I know the 'soldiers with incapacitated tech being picked off by hostiles' is a bit of a trope but Abnett writes it so darn well, and Mark Harrison excels. Not really bothered that the story goes into (literal and metaphorical) uncharted territory for the ETC - bring it on!
That Dredd's pretty great, isn't it? Eglington has really found the texture and rhythm of a good Dredd tale this time, and MacNeil's art is, if possible, even better than usual. Frank makes a good point about the development of more caricatured faces, something we've seen before in Colin's work but not so much in Dredd. I like it! Eglington gives us a nice spin on drones-meet-3D-printing too.
Point of information for Norton Canes: it's a kid in the crowd that throws the smoke canister, not Joe.
Quote from: norton canes on 05 October, 2017, 10:31:17 AM
Dredd: I mean, a cover this week from Colin MacNeil giving another perspective on one of the frames from the story would have been amazing.
There's a point. Although MacNeil's painted style probably works better for covers.
Quote from: TordelBack on 05 October, 2017, 11:18:48 AMPoint of information for Norton Canes: it's a kid in the crowd that throws the smoke canister, not Joe
Oops! It looked like it was coming from some kind of projectile pod on the side of Dredd's bike.
THIS IS THE BEGINNING. THIS IS THE END.
As he was typing those words, there's no way John Smith could have known this would be the last episode of the series he created and only he has ever written. Apt, nonetheless.
As was the return of the literal Foundation upon which Smith's teetering edifice was (Jerry) built, the space suited Harry/Jerry Foundation. Clothed by Sagan, named by Schrödinger.
While I can sympathise with Magnetica's confusion when following Indigo Prime from week to week* and his reluctance to embark on a reread, I heartily endorse Pete's praise.
Your enjoyment of IP as a weekly read depends on how much you like being bemused, but a reread will confirm that, behind Smith's waterfall of language, the plot is usually straightforward.
Plus, there's a real pleasure to be had in seeing things like the bewilderbeast**, which just seemed like a throwaway item on Smith's glossolalia lists of novel terms, finally made flesh after thirty years.
Last week was our first glimpse of the much mentioned Nethermen, along with the dual visual gag/pun of Sgt Roque (geddit?), a snow leopard eating a Zoom lolly on a tropical beach.
Last week's tantalising glimpse of The Nihilist reinforces what a loss Smith's departure will be. We'll never know who the Nihilist was or what he had planned. Smith probably didn't know either, but whatever he came up with would have been typically original, inventive, and funny.
Here's hoping the end of Indigo Prime and Devlin Waugh doesn't mean the loss of a unique and irreplaceable talent.
* I wouldn't worry about being confused - Jerry/Harry Foundation can't seem to remember his name from strip to strip, so what chance do readers have?
** As a major plot point, too. Smith beat Badly Drawn Boy to that name by a decade; wonder if Damon Gough's a fan?
Quote from: norton canes on 05 October, 2017, 11:38:39 AM
Quote from: TordelBack on 05 October, 2017, 11:18:48 AMPoint of information for Norton Canes: it's a kid in the crowd that throws the smoke canister, not Joe
Oops! It looked like it was coming from some kind of projectile pod on the side of Dredd's bike.
Thought the same here. Would have worked better if he'd said "Smoke canister
? Mond, start handing out some time!"
Trite observation: Jimmy Jinks is conscripted to the away team of Burroughs (Kirk), Dak (Spock), and Dr Crippen (Bones) as a red shirt. I mean he's literally wearing a shirt which is red.
He's standing in for the unconscious Redman as the council estate bloke among the fancy lads, undercutting their esoterica with a concern for fag breaks and overtime, like Ernie Hudson in Ghostbusters.
Dane McGowan* of The Invisibles is another reference point. There must surely be a scene where the high brow boys come up short and Jinks saves the day. 'SOD ALL THAT BOLLOCKS - STITCH THIS, QUETZALCOATL !'
* Given what a Morrison fanboy Smith is, maybe Jinks is a middle aged McGowan, who became bored of being Buddha and got a job with the stochastic equivalent of the council (Indigo Prime), as a street (entropy) sweeper. McGowan and Jinks are both members of teams led by bald blokes who like guns, too ...
Ok,my turn as a returnee since prog 2000, but the bug has bitten so what can you do?
JUDGE DREDD- But it feels more like Im reading Constable Dredd or Dredd of Dock Green these days! He just doesn't have that superior human presence I use to love about him, the force of nature that defended HIS city. And this story is just another version of the Sons Of Booth, realtering a droids programme for propaganda purposes.
SLAINE-either Pat Mills is out of Awen or he keeps his best ideas for the French market! But Simon Davis is firing on all cylinders, every panel is lush and beautiful, but when you put them all together they feel a bit flat and slow. I would love to see Davis get a huge challange as he can paint BIG, like a journey in the Underworld or the Egyptian gods! And Ukko, where are you when your prog needs you???
INDIGO PRIME-I don't know anything about this at all but this is some of the most brilliant comic art I have ever seen! Burroughs room is full of perfect detail and the character's are so well realized, so much work gone into this. Sorry that John Smith has gone amidst controversy but hopefully Kek-W can keep it on the rails, I am hooked. I appreciate too a more adult story in the mix as well as some can be a little too juvenile.
GREY AREA-not for me but I can see why others like it.
SINISTERDEXTER-I can't understand why this exists at all, at all.
That's my tuppence worth this week, all the best.