GRIM RUMOURS ABOUT NEW STAR TREK:DISCOVERY SERIES

[TordelBack]

It's Trek, Sharky, but not as we know it.  It's a different take on the Trek universe, and not one I particularly  want, but it has unexpectedly won me over (so far): there's enough proper Trek peeking out of the background to allow me to see this as an aberrant time in the grand scheme of things, with the obvious discontinuities in technology a simple result of the story being rendered in 2017 instead of 1966, and the need for it to still seem like our future as much as it is Kirk's past.

The spore-thing is almost certainly a red herring, one of a number of biowar directions Lorca will pursue as gordian knot solutions to a bunch of peacenik commie scientists trying to fight an existential war with a warrior race. 

Conceptually it seems to be a mushy mash-up of the unrelated ideas of quantum entanglement and panspermia as a kind of massively attenuated mycelium, or even Feynman's idea that the whole universe is one single electron moving through the fourth dimension, and manifesting itself at every possible three-dimensional location.  The woolly idea being that all spores are connected in an ether-like underlying web throughout the universe, and you can interchangeably hop from one point to another like a fungal fruit-body by manipulating this self-similarity.  Tosh, but no worse than turning into a randy newt because you went too fast.

However, one is tempted to draw vague parallels with the galaxy-spanning transportation used by the Nacene (exemplified by the Caretakers in Voyager), who were usually described as 'Sporocystian' lifeforms even though that term is never really explored beyond the idea of spore-based reproduction, and their post-mortem 'cyst' like crystalline form.

[The Legendary Shark]

I can agree with just about all of that, Tordels, and it's entirely possible that the problem lies with me and not ST:D. It's odd because I'm usually easily pleased with t.v. programmes and can tolerate a lot of piffle as a rule. I think the individual elements are all pretty good but somehow the whole is less than the sum of its parts.

It's not terrible, however, and I'm going to continue watching it because it might just click at some point and, on that day, I'm going to be a very happy chap.

[TordelBack]

Don't think you're at fault here, Sharky, I was certainly all geared up to rail against it as an abhorrence, but then... found myself... hypnotised by... all the... shiny things.  It misses so many of the marks I want a Trek show to hit, but it also hits others I didn't even know were there.  I'll take this equivocation over no Trek at all.

I'd be giving it a far more resounding endorsement if they'd had the balls to set it in a smugly complacent Federation 20 years after ST:Nemesis, and replaced the Klingons with a hitherto unknown ancient race of savage xenophobes.

[Tjm86]

....  a hitherto unknown ancient race of savage xenophobes.

You mean the British?

[blackmocco]

I'm disappointed with this so far. It's just not Star Trek. Hopefully it'll improve - or I will on a re-watch - but at the moment it just feels wrong, like cold coffee.

C'mon Sharky, you know you want to like it. Just think about the cool new terms we're going to get with this spore drive. Warp factor shitake, the portobello manoeuvre, shroomin' subspace...

You're right, VB, I want to like it so much it almost aches. The 'shroom drive is part of it; it's just piffle and, unless this is all taking place in an alternate universe, is a complete and utter white elephant. The wonky, selection box Klingons are another put off - it's as if they're all made of clay and change their appearance every decade or so. The starship bridges are too different, owing more to JJA than GR, and corpses twisted up like old rags just don't sit well with me either.

On their own, each of these things are interesting enough in their own rights and I should be loving the mixture but I'm not. The characters are all good and the SFX are amazing but this just isn't Trek. The Orville is doing Star Trek better than Discovery is and that's both weird and disappointing.

It has to be different now though, Sharky. Star Trek has to survive and after 51 years, it has to look at modern TV and try compete. I'll agree and I understand why this tone and style may not work for some Trek fans (the gore made me think of that) but that's kinda the idea too. This is a franchise that has bent over backwards catering (I would say suppressing) itself to keep a contingent of fans happy at a great cost. The rot had set in by Voyager. They had to reinvent themselves a little to create breathing room. Personally, I don't care if the Klingons look a bit different (they don't. Draw some hair on them and see), don't care the ships look better and more advanced than Kirk's Enterprise and think the spore-based propulsion is kinda cool (even if I think this show is headed to an explanation as to why we've never heard of this ship or crew). I'll forgive canon continuity if the story and characters are strong enough and so far, that's good enough.

It's a shame Orville and this are being constantly contrasted but there's no comparison as far as I'm concerned. Orville's stuck in 1991. Unimaginatively designed, stale sci-fi ideas, humor that doesn't land and five episodes in it still has nothing resembling real characters. It's just people saying things to one another without any depth or definition. You could swap the dialog to any character without noticing. I wish it well, there's certainly room on TV for two Trek-ish shows but it needs to find its feet.

[Professor Bear]

/setup Yeah, Trek doesn't need its older fans /punchline and I'm really looking forward to that fourth Kelvin Timeline movie.

It's not really an either/or situation, as there's a lot of room for different versions of Trek for different audiences - at least five distinct shows to date, not counting this one.  If you don't like Discovery, then fair play.  Just hang about until they do another reinvention in a few years' time.

[The Legendary Shark]

Hopefully it'll grow on me.

[TordelBack]

Hopefully it'll grow on me.

Like a fungus...?

[The Legendary Shark]

Heh.

Or maybe, like the Captain, it'll take time for my eyes to adjust (although that site-to-site transport from his dimly lit office to the brightly lit fungineering room didn't seem to bother him much). (What is it with that "injury" anyway? Is it just a clumsy way of telling us that he's got stars in his eyes, or space in his face, or that he will only take to enlightenment slowly? Or is it something that will only become a weakness when the plot demands it and why would it be a weakness anyway because, you know, sunglasses? Reactolight-not-so-Rapide sunglasses? Yeurgh.)

Sorry, I'm being picky now!

[Magnetica]

Just rewatched episode 3 and I liked it. Once I stopped wishing it was a continuation of my favourite previous incarnation of Trek (in my case TNG) and accepted it as it's own thing, I was able to appreciate it more. Basically don't let nostalgia get in the way.

To pick up in a couple of points made above:

I think it is a must that the technology is pitched more as an evolution of where we are now rather than something than evolves to where it was at with Kirk. A computer less advanced than an iPad just isn't going to be credible.

Sharky - I don't think the captain actually has "stars in his eyes". That was (I thought anyway) a refection of the screen he was looking at.

As to the episode itself. I really liked the ambiguity around the captain and that he is not just a straight up good guy. Starfleet also seems to operate along more realistic military structures than we have seen before. Even if some of the things the chief engineer said seemed to verge on [spoiler]mutiny.[/spoiler]

I also liked the way Burnham didn't jump at the chance to join Discovery and had to be given a proper reason, although I hope [spoiler]"spore drive" doesn't become a magic device that allows them to just go wherever they want instantaneously and then just leave to escape.[/spoiler] Actually I'm sure it won't.

The other main difference between this and TOS, TNG, Voyager and DS9 is the proper arc structure. But I guess that is more reflective of the way TV has gone generally in the last ten years. I remember when B5* did it, it was new, now it's expected.

* I'm not saying B5 necessarily invented that, but it was the Sci-fi show it first came to my attention on.

[TordelBack]

Sorry, I'm being picky now!

It's spelled 'trekkie'.

[blackmocco]

Just rewatched episode 3 and I liked it. Once I stopped wishing it was a continuation of my favourite previous incarnation of Trek (in my case TNG) and accepted it as it's own thing, I was able to appreciate it more. Basically don't let nostalgia get in the way.

To pick up in a couple of points made above:

I think it is a must that the technology is pitched more as an evolution of where we are now rather than something than evolves to where it was at with Kirk. A computer less advanced than an iPad just isn't going to be credible.

Sharky - I don't think the captain actually has "stars in his eyes". That was (I thought anyway) a refection of the screen he was looking at.

As to the episode itself. I really liked the ambiguity around the captain and that he is not just a straight up good guy. Starfleet also seems to operate along more realistic military structures than we have seen before. Even if some of the things the chief engineer said seemed to verge on [spoiler]mutiny.[/spoiler]

I also liked the way Burnham didn't jump at the chance to join Discovery and had to be given a proper reason, although I hope [spoiler]"spore drive" doesn't become a magic device that allows them to just go wherever they want instantaneously and then just leave to escape.[/spoiler] Actually I'm sure it won't.

The other main difference between this and TOS, TNG, Voyager and DS9 is the proper arc structure. But I guess that is more reflective of the way TV has gone generally in the last ten years. I remember when B5* did it, it was new, now it's expected.

* I'm not saying B5 necessarily invented that, but it was the Sci-fi show it first came to my attention on.

A brief aside: I just discovered a site that's (legally) streaming every episode of Babylon 5. I'd forgotten how ace it was and how remarkable it is they pulled it off with a fraction of the budget the likes of DS9 had. Great stuff. go90.com is the website, if anyone's interested.

[von Boom]

Just rewatched episode 3 and I liked it. Once I stopped wishing it was a continuation of my favourite previous incarnation of Trek (in my case TNG) and accepted it as it's own thing, I was able to appreciate it more. Basically don't let nostalgia get in the way.

To pick up in a couple of points made above:

I think it is a must that the technology is pitched more as an evolution of where we are now rather than something than evolves to where it was at with Kirk. A computer less advanced than an iPad just isn't going to be credible.

Sharky - I don't think the captain actually has "stars in his eyes". That was (I thought anyway) a refection of the screen he was looking at.

As to the episode itself. I really liked the ambiguity around the captain and that he is not just a straight up good guy. Starfleet also seems to operate along more realistic military structures than we have seen before. Even if some of the things the chief engineer said seemed to verge on [spoiler]mutiny.[/spoiler]

I also liked the way Burnham didn't jump at the chance to join Discovery and had to be given a proper reason, although I hope [spoiler]"spore drive" doesn't become a magic device that allows them to just go wherever they want instantaneously and then just leave to escape.[/spoiler] Actually I'm sure it won't.

The other main difference between this and TOS, TNG, Voyager and DS9 is the proper arc structure. But I guess that is more reflective of the way TV has gone generally in the last ten years. I remember when B5* did it, it was new, now it's expected.

* I'm not saying B5 necessarily invented that, but it was the Sci-fi show it first came to my attention on.

A brief aside: I just discovered a site that's (legally) streaming every episode of Babylon 5. I'd forgotten how ace it was and how remarkable it is they pulled it off with a fraction of the budget the likes of DS9 had. Great stuff. go90.com is the website, if anyone's interested.

Tease. It only works in the US.

[blackmocco]

Ah shit. Sorry about that.

[The Legendary Shark]

Sharky - I don't think the captain actually has "stars in his eyes".

Sorry - I meant figuratively, the way a good sea captain is said to have salt water in his veins.