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Author Topic: PLEASANTLY SURPRISED BY THE NEW STAR TREK: DISCOVERY SERIES  (Read 13269 times)

Tiplodocus

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Re: PLEASANTLY SURPRISED BY THE NEW STAR TREK: DISCOVERY SERIES
« Reply #345 on: 13 February, 2018, 12:53:54 am »
Quite disappointed with that finale. Very low key and all too neat to be believable - especially the resolution with the Klingons. I actually wish the Season had finished two episodes back. It had a better cliffhanger too.
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Jimmy Baker's Assistant

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Re: PLEASANTLY SURPRISED BY THE NEW STAR TREK: DISCOVERY SERIES
« Reply #346 on: 13 February, 2018, 11:33:41 am »
Loves the whole series. The Klingon war resolved the way it had to resolve. The Federation weren't about to start genocidally wiping out planets. Burnham had to get pardoned, as otherwise without Lorca's protection she was heading straight back to the glasshouse.

The highlight for me was Michelle Yeoh. She was a bit meh as the good Phillipa, but totally amazing as her own evil duplicate. So pleased she survived the episode.

The end of season cliffhanger. Not really a cliffhanger, more a semi-promise that Spock is going to be in season 2. I liked it.

Oh yeah, and BRING BACK LORCA!

Professor Bear

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Re: PLEASANTLY SURPRISED BY THE NEW STAR TREK: DISCOVERY SERIES
« Reply #347 on: 13 February, 2018, 12:31:34 pm »
Continuing the downward trend from last week, the finale felt more uneven than outright bad - the show works hard to differentiate itself from the utopian 1960s fantasy version of the Federation but then expects you to forget all that and buy their "Oh Captain My Captain" moment.

All of the pivotal scenes necessary to make this episode work relied on the audience's indulgence rather than feeling earned by the actual story, which I'm not sure made sense objectively or relative to its own narrative: "I have a bomb that will blow up this planet if you don't do what I say" is basically a bluff, but it is also a bluff being made against the Klingons - the Have-A-Go-Joes of the Alpha Quadrant - by someone they hate and ridicule.  A deus ex ending where the enemy is threatened into submission with a war crime rather than reasoned with - it's like 60s Trek never went away.
The bit where the Klingon ships just turn around and fly away from Earth was really funny, though, as was "previously in Star Trek Discovery" being said in Klingon at the start.  Also, I wasn't sure why Burnham was giving that speech at the end, but I'm sure I blinked and missed something.

JamesC

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Re: PLEASANTLY SURPRISED BY THE NEW STAR TREK: DISCOVERY SERIES
« Reply #348 on: 13 February, 2018, 01:16:14 pm »
RE: the speech at the end. I've noticed in films and TV at the moment that characters make what are supposed to by rousing or poignant speeches or monologues but the writers aren't very good at being  succinct so they just come out as a load of old waffle.
I can't think of any more examples at the moment but it's a trend I've been peripherally aware of to the point where when this speech started it came into sharp focus and made me think - 'Not another of these awful waffley speeches we've been getting a lot of lately!'

Other than that I enjoyed the episode.

Tiplodocus

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Re: PLEASANTLY SURPRISED BY THE NEW STAR TREK: DISCOVERY SERIES
« Reply #349 on: 13 February, 2018, 04:30:00 pm »
"Band of Brothers" did the closing, rousing speech trope rather well by having a German commander giving it to his troops.
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The Legendary Shark

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Re: PLEASANTLY SURPRISED BY THE NEW STAR TREK: DISCOVERY SERIES
« Reply #350 on: 13 February, 2018, 05:52:59 pm »
Well, for me the series started off poorly, got steadily worse, rallied somewhat right near the end but finished floating face down in a pool of its own sickly jizz.



Tiplodocus

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Re: PLEASANTLY SURPRISED BY THE NEW STAR TREK: DISCOVERY SERIES
« Reply #351 on: 13 February, 2018, 09:20:01 pm »
Well, for me the series started off poorly, got steadily worse, rallied somewhat right near the end but finished floating face down in a pool of its own sickly jizz.

Ah, so you've been on a night with the CalHab boarders?
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Art

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Re: PLEASANTLY SURPRISED BY THE NEW STAR TREK: DISCOVERY SERIES
« Reply #352 on: 13 February, 2018, 10:18:24 pm »
Best first season of a Trek since TOS.

TordelBack

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Re: PLEASANTLY SURPRISED BY THE NEW STAR TREK: DISCOVERY SERIES
« Reply #353 on: 13 February, 2018, 10:28:17 pm »
Mmmm, as early Trek seasons go, this whole thing is way above par. One recalls the clusterfuck (writer's strike notwithstanding) constituted by the the last four episodes of TNG's first season (or indeed the end o fits second). Miracle anyone tuned in ever again.

blackmocco

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Re: PLEASANTLY SURPRISED BY THE NEW STAR TREK: DISCOVERY SERIES
« Reply #354 on: 13 February, 2018, 11:19:55 pm »
I would say DS9 had a patchy but generally effective first season too. If the stories weren't always great, they at least succeeded in laying down a great tone to build off. I'd say the same about Discovery. It didn't have the strength of its convictions by the end, in my opinion. It teased a lot of directions it never really had the balls to go in. (For example, I loved the Lorca twist - honestly didn't see it coming - but feel now that maybe we missed an opportunity to see how a starship functions when the captain is a dick, rather than a captain who's an evil duplicate from a parallel universe.) In saying all that, I enjoyed it a lot and yeah as a first season with some stumbles, it succeeded in giving me a crew I want to know more about with a great cast.

Fuller's non-involvement in season 2 will be the real tester as to whether they can get it right or not.
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Art

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Re: PLEASANTLY SURPRISED BY THE NEW STAR TREK: DISCOVERY SERIES
« Reply #355 on: 14 February, 2018, 12:05:05 am »
Early DS9 mostly consisted of recycled TNG plots, they had to burn through a lot of those to get to the good stuff.

TordelBack

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Re: PLEASANTLY SURPRISED BY THE NEW STAR TREK: DISCOVERY SERIES
« Reply #356 on: 14 February, 2018, 07:46:42 pm »
As my 8-yr old daughter put it,  "that's a lot of Orion butt! ". But aside from the rather rushed and unconvincing end to the war, I thought the whole series was a surprising success. Finding myself eagerly watching, and speculating about, new Trek week to week with my kids, it still seems so incredibly unlikely. For this feat alone Discovery now has a place in my heart.

More,  please!

Goaty

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Re: PLEASANTLY SURPRISED BY THE NEW STAR TREK: DISCOVERY SERIES
« Reply #357 on: 14 February, 2018, 07:48:13 pm »
Anyone loved the moment when Tilly want to "Hail Emperor".

Art

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Re: PLEASANTLY SURPRISED BY THE NEW STAR TREK: DISCOVERY SERIES
« Reply #358 on: 14 February, 2018, 08:37:40 pm »
Everything Tilly/Killy related is great.

Note that she kept the wig far longer than she actually needed it.

Robin Low

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Re: PLEASANTLY SURPRISED BY THE NEW STAR TREK: DISCOVERY SERIES
« Reply #359 on: 17 February, 2018, 11:38:36 am »
RE: the speech at the end. I've noticed in films and TV at the moment that characters make what are supposed to by rousing or poignant speeches or monologues but the writers aren't very good at being  succinct so they just come out as a load of old waffle.

The best thing about Prelude to Axanar (and there are a number of good things) is Ramirez' speech in Archer Arena:

We are facing an enemy that is consumed and committed to our total destruction. 
An enemy that demands to be fought, and we will fight!
But I say to you our greatest challenge is not the might of a Klingon fleet.
The greatest challenge laying before us is to do what must be done, without undoing the dream of the Federation. 
For myself, I have but one fear: Destroying the dream of the Federation.
Compared to such a loss, I DO NOT FEAR THE KLINGON EMPIRE!

In PtA this is intercut with some other comments (a bit like wossname's in Discovery), but it's short and sharp, and Tony Todd's delivery and performance is powerful. It's a pretty clear statement about the nature of Star Fleet. Yeah, if we have to fight then we'll fight and fight hard, but we'll also do our damnedest not to compromise the Federation's ideals and goals in the process.

For all the impressive things in Discovery, I can't help but compare it to PtA. There's nothing in Discovery that I'm interested in rewatching, but I find myself coming back to PtA again and again. It's like Discovery is using the iconography of Star Trek, but PtA actually understands and follows its tenets.

Oh, dear. Star Trek as a religion. Never mind.

Regards,

Robin