Continued thread...3000AD, Potter

[Rex Gambill]

Paul, I totally agree with your last post in Thread 635. Particularly the part about me assisting Tharg's nephews to edit the mag.
Imagine being Dredd's clone...only you're 10 years old and in judge training. And your teacher is Dredd! I think it would work better if it's an ensemble cast of young trainees...some girls, some boys. Do they get involved in mischief?
People, young people especially, are drawn to the idea of a post-apocalyptic future. Nihilism is in fashion. Give them some thrill-powered stories of their own. "3000AD - not your father's comic."

[Rex Gambill]

Really, when you think about it, that's what Rowling did with Harry Potter. She created a fantastic environment, a world if you will, in which magic is real, and told her stories for children of all ages through the eyes of a first-time participant. A "judge trainee" series would work on the same principle.
And you're right. The possibilities are endless. Why hasn't somebody already done this?
In my line of work (newspapers) we are constantly asking ourselves "how can we make this (true) story interesting to readers?" Often it's in how you tell the story. People like to be told stories about people just like them. Kids even more so.

[paulvonscott]

It's an exciting idea alright.  Of course the problem with ideas is that there's always someone ready to squash them and just carry on doing the same old stuff.  It was out of people with enthusiasm and drive who started 2000AD in a similar climate.

I think any such magazine should start off on the principle that just as 2000AD isn't really intended for the kids, 3000AD isn't really intended for the adults.  Yes you may get a crossover at some point.

The proble with the abortive 'Lawman of the future' title was that it took a basic concept and simplified it.  The equivelant of a literary lobotomy.  Harry Potter has shown that quality really does shine through.

I also agree that don't think you have to simplify Dredd's world or take anything from it, you just need to change the perspective.  that goes for Johnny Alpha's world and probably a few others.  What about Slaine's son, Kai and his life as a druid, really an interesting story potentially and not just as an aside.  It comes across as a celtic Harry Potter but could be a lot grittier.  Here's this boy, he rarely sees his father, who is a king and the greatest warrior fo his age, they have an odd relationship, there's the tension between the parents.  I mean, talking as someone who lived in a single parent family, there is a situation I could have related to.

I mean, kids do like to read about kids like them in fantastical situations, a staple for at least a hundred years.

Sure it doesn't have to be all junior versions.  I'm not talking of just having Junior Dredd, Junior, Johnny Alpha in some hackneyed roll out the cash barrel sense.  But those early glimpses of Alpha's past were very good.

The problem is getting over the stigma of 'being for children' meaning childish material.  3000AD could easily be more mature than 2000AD while being aimed firmly and squarely at kids.

Tharg's unruly Nephews (See Alan Moore's Future Shocks) as editors just seems so insanely great.

Oh well, thanks for fuelling your fevered mind with your ideas Rex.  If I ever do achieve world domination you can have 3000AD as my gift.  You may also hold dominion over Canada.

Cheers

PVS

[2000AD Online]

Not quite sure how I managed to leave a rant on thread 635 if it's being continued here.

Anyway, to reiterate: I'm not sure I agree that using child characters is necessarilly the best way of enticing a younger readership. Did any of us need such a ploy to start reading comics? Obviously, marketing is important, but the only time Joe Public hears about comics is when the next big budget film based on one is about to hit the cinemas; or when a journalist feels the need to justify his reading habits, citing comics as no longer being kids stuff. Which is why, with the exception of D.C. Thompson's output, kids' comics no longer exist.

Which is a shame.

Just re-read that bit about 'justifying HIS reading habits'. Another problem. Comics are primarily created by and for males. What about the female readership? Or for that matter, the female creators?

[2000AD Online]

Sorry, I'm on a bit of a rant.

The idea of J.K. Rowling writing a 'Harry Potter' sounds good in theory but it's more likely to be licensed out for someone else to write. Except, it would if J.K. wasn't so protective of Harold. Thus, here lies another problem: creator's rights. How can comics, be they aimed at children or adults, compete with the quality of books, films, television, etc., when the creators in most cases aren't allowed to own their own creations? And how can comics be expected to entice quality writers from other media to write for them if they insist on using such outmoded business practises? It was only in the 'nineties 2000 AD started paying its creators royalties, so no wonder so many of its best writers and artists had already pissed off to D.C. and Eclipse.

Have to say, I love the idea of Tharg's nephews running their own comic and, like yourselves, I'm surprised no one has ever written a story deatailing a cadet's experiences at the Academy of Law.

H'mm. I've just had an idea. . !

[Mudcrab]

Listen to what you're saying!!!

Ever read Magician by Raymond Feist? Hmm, a fantasy world where magic is real and the main protagonist is an apprentice magician.

Hmm, Lord of the Rings, a fantasy world where magic is real, and follows young(?) Frodo.

HYPE HYPE HYPE, that's all it is. There is NOTHING original or clever about Harry Snotter, it's an old formula toned down and manufactured for snotty kids and their 'oh it's so good!' bloody parents.

I'm quite sure the guys can come up with decent storylines without having to stoop to the depths of ripping ideas from kids books.

Doug

[Mudcrab]

Great idea, let's make it fun for girls. Judge Hershey goes on a shopping trip???

[2000AD Online]

No, you're quite. 'Harry Potter' is hardly original and I've only the film to base an opinion on. But if 'Harry Potter' can be used to get kids, perhaps even adults who don't normally read comics, into doing so then that's probably not a bad thing. Unfortunately, such a foray into comics publishing would probably encourage poor imitations rather than inspire something original.

I must confess that, despite its class bias, the trite approach to magic, and the fact the child actors struggled with their supposedly ironic dialogue, I did enjoy the film. But then it did have Robbie Coltrane in it.

[paulvonscott]

Well, a few comments in order to pick of the two snipers (Hi guys).

Firstly I'm not bothered about Harry Potter, never read the books, hated the movie, didn't laugh at another tired Dredd Parody.

The HP bit was admitted as being difficult but not impossible to do.  JK Rowling actually gives a dman about how her stuff is used.  I may not want to read the books, but I really respect how her creative control has rewarded her.  makes me feel even sorrier for Wagner.  If you have a mix of smaller stories with storylines contributed by JK and then book adaptations, you don't need that much input from here.

Next, snobbishnes about comics.  yes it is a problem, heres a chance to overcome it.  The snobbishness adults have towards comics isn't as big as some kids towards books, and they've been got at.

Child perpective strips.  I thought the cadet idea by Rex was fantastic.  I remembered the youn Alpha stories and remembered how goo they are, then there is Kai's life which i thought would make an interesting balance to HP.  

However I did warn against a league junior 2000AD characters.  Junior anything usually means junior crap.  If they did feature, they should maybe just be about a half.

But to say that child perpsective stuff is a bad per se, flouts a 100 years of books and comics that say you are wrong.  HP being only at the end of the line.  Okay there was no child perpsective stuff in 2000AD, but you couldn't bring out that mag now and make it work.

Anyway it's an interesting idea.  Has holes sure, but it could float.

Cheers

Paul

p.s. for those horrified by the idea, you really are thinking 'for kids' = 'stupid sh*te'.  I still buy the odd kids book (John Christopher etc.) and you'd be surprised how good they can be.  When we say mature, we aren't doing it from some lofty parapet, just saying it wouldn't be a mindless embarresment.

[Mudcrab]

Yeah, I see your point. It's unlikely though, seeing as it has been pointed out that Luke Kirby was a similar character, itself not original as such. I'd prefer to see a return of that. It'd probably fire up some stick with people saying "But that's just like Harry Potter", to which we could be smug and tell them that Luke Kirby predates Harry Potter. :o)

[Mudcrab]

RE: for those horrified by the idea, you really are thinking 'for kids' = 'stupid sh*te'.

Very probably, but it's really all the hype and publicity and merchandising that's bugged me about HP.

I saw Jack Dee live not long ago when he asked the audience "Is it just me or is everone fed up hearing about Harry f**king Potter?" A very loud cheer went up, which showed I'm not alone. But then I live in Aberdeen and we're all miserable bastards anyway :-)

[2000AD Online]

Non non non non. I wasn't criticizing the idea of having child characters just the thinking behind using them. What matters is that a character grabs the readers attention, whether he or she be child or adult. I just don't necessarilly agree with the idea that a child can immediately relate more to a character of a similar age to him or herself. When I was a sprog, I spake as a sprog, I understood as a sprog, I thought as a sprog.

But I still knew when I was being patronized.

[paulvonscott]

There's that mentality of suspicion again.

Who wants to patronise?

The three kids perpsective stories I mentioned, I mentioned because they'd make great stories!  That I would like to read even if they weren't written for me.

Having some other kids perpsective strips is patronising?  No, but it is a good excuse to use material which is already there and well established characters to produce a story where we can guarantee some of its merits.  Tell me they aren't good stories and I'll take them off the imagionary list.  Cadet Judge, a five year old kid inducted into a futuristic almost fascist poliuce force?  Young Alpha, fighting against and oppressive regime, where he is a reviled outcast, Kai, the son of a great king sent to become a druid?  What's dumb or patronising about them?  They give HP a kicking in my opinion.

As for harry Potter, I quie agree, sick to death of him, but if you wanted a comic like that to sell, well think about it.  it ain't rocket science.

[2000AD Online]

But. . But. . But, Paul! I'm agreeing with you! I'm not saying using child characters is a bad thing! I even agreed the cadet story line is a brilliant idea as was Tharg's nephews running their own comic! I'm just saying it's the limited imagination of publishers, if not writer's themselves, that can sometimes result in sub-standard stories, not necessarilly those in a comic, in which it's thought a child readership will automatically relate to a story revolving a child character.

AAAAAAARGGGGHHHHHHHHHH! ! !

[2000AD Online]

And I don't have a mentality of suspicion. Although I suspect you have some ulterior motive for saying something so, um, true? Bugger.