Shooting completed for Judge Dredd

[TordelBack]

...but rather pointing up the infrastructure fragmentation which could occur if such a system as basic as plumbing can't be supported or maintained.

Point taken. 

(Much as I love the Romans and their amazing systems, their depiction as some kind of forerunner of the British Empire, bringing WCs to the savages, who immediately fell back into the benighted depravity of pooing in a hole once their betters had headed back to blighty, tends to get my goat.  Roman plumbing was horrendously wasteful, and really a cultural foible, rather than being some ne plus ultra achievement of the early first millennium - viable alternatives existed.  Even the much-vaunted steam and hot-water bath system was (probably) alive and well in the fulachta fiadh and 'burnt mound' tradition of every cluster of huts in north-western Europe 2,000 years before Diocletian's Baths).

[JOE SOAP]

Here is a good example, in the UK alone THOUSANDS of electic charging stations for cars are going to be set up within the next 5 years ,this is fact, and comes well before the dire need has arrived.This alone is a main fact why 'modern' society will continue to run normally  and we will not fall back into the Dark Ages.

And where does the power/energy come from that charges those batteries? This is my point, there has never been an almost free energy 'plasma' like oil that merely needs refining to be used. I bet that more oil energy is used building these electric cars/charging stations, running the power-stations, charging/making the batteries etc than the most basic transfer ratio of energy to work when putting petrol straight into your tank. Basically the lesser amount of steps from energy to work, the better and more efficient the system. Electric cars have really only been promoted as clean and non-polluting rather than energy-efficient as in they're more wasteful with a longer production and energy chain. 200 million vehicles in the US alone, do you think they will be driving electric vehicles soon and at what cost? In the U.S. right now, about 70 percent of the energy used to make electricity — more than four million gigawatt-hours — comes from fossil fuels. About 70 percent of that amount is wasted generating the power and transmitting it to the door. Additional energy is lost when charging batteries and running electric motors. Now fossil-fuel cars aren't that much better but I'm willing to believe that once all the costs and benefits are totted up electric cars are not much greener than conventional technology. But I also know this: the era of petroleum-fueled vehicles is drawing to a close. Either we find a substitute or we resign ourselves to a slightly updated version of the transportation options available in 1898.

It's a sad fact but since we all adopted a lifestyle where all the basics we need to survive have been misallocated to places and countries sometimes thousands of miles away when they could be made locally while supporting the local economy has damaged our survival chances and squandered resources. An example being the US establishment exporting all their manufacturing jobs overseas destroying local communities and using more and more fuel redistributing those goods back home! The misapproipriation of commodities and resources needs to be addressed before we can begin the energy crisis issue.

My point still stands though, in a world of finite resources and hopelessly wasteful, surplus generating capitalism, contraction is inevitable and no matter what there's a difficult time ahead. We have to get used to the fact that economies won't grow in the way 'markets' and 'marketeers' have always told us they should grow which is in quantity but in quality which will serve the inherent populace foremost.

For most politicians they have made a living by parasitically promoting 'growth' in the economy even when it was a blatant lie for their function has now become little else than telling us how good the 'next few years are going to be'. The good times are ending because the old capitalist way is killing us, that's why they fret and run around borrowing from Peter to pay Paul as the banks sit back and produce nothing of value. Financial 'manufacturing' had inflated and over-taken actual product manufaturing. A complete fantasy economy.

[JOE SOAP]

To add to the above:

In the U.S. right now, about 70 percent of the energy used to make electricity — more than four million gigawatt-hours — comes from fossil fuels. About 70 percent of that amount is wasted generating the power and transmitting it to the door. Additional energy is lost when charging batteries and running electric motors. Now fossil-fuel cars aren't that much better but I'm willing to believe that once all the costs and benefits are totted up electric cars are not much greener than conventional technology. The problem really is the infrastructure that's been set up where we all need cars to drive many times one individual to actually go to those places that are necessary for our survival, work, supermarkets, doctor/hospitals etc. it would make more make sense if all these were in walking distance in at least 50% of cases or that proper communal transport was available, the necessity for millions ofcars for so many individuals is a ridiculous idea.

[The Sherman Kid]

...but rather pointing up the infrastructure fragmentation which could occur if such a system as basic as plumbing can't be supported or maintained.

Point taken. 

  Even the much-vaunted steam and hot-water bath system was (probably) alive and well in the fulachta fiadh and 'burnt mound' tradition of every cluster of huts in north-western Europe 2,000 years before Diocletian's Baths).

Jesus H Christ Tordelback, that has got to be quote of the week  :oCan you also tell me what the meaning of life is  :lol:Very impressed.
Mr Soap electricity can be supplied in abundance by nuclear power and coal powered stations which, as stated earlier still have over 100 years reserves.As for manufaturing going abroad, the capitalist market ensures it goes to where it is produced the cheapest, a process that cannot be changed under any circumstance except totalitarian control -which I'm sure you don't want.It is also impossible to put everything ,or even just essentials within walking distance for the majority.Besides millions have their own transport ie the right to go where they want, when they want is an established individuals right -to even attempt to any way curb that is follly.

[Peter Wolf]

To add to the above:

As for manufaturing going abroad, the capitalist market ensures it goes to where it is produced the cheapest, a process that cannot be changed under any circumstance except totalitarian control -which I'm sure you don't want.It is also impossible to put everything ,or even just essentials within walking distance for the majority.Besides millions have their own transport ie the right to go where they want, when they want is an established individuals right -to even attempt to any way curb that is follly.

The so called capitalist system is already under totalitarian control wether you want it or not and its called Globalism.

If everyone is racked and stacked and packed into cities then everything is already within walking distance for everyone so its hardly impossible and since you are a strong advocate of that then thats an absurd statement.

Synthetic oil will be the holy grail and I believe, given the inevitable need and impetus will give the eventual answer.Yes we are not there yet, but as they say, necessity is the mother of invention.

Hemp .

Its very very simple.Plant Hemp seeds in the ground.Wait for the Hemp to grow and then at the right time harvest the Hemp and then boil it to extract the oil from the plant material and then you have the perfect non-polluting alternative to Oil from which you can produce anything that is presently derived from crude oil.

Why bother messing around and wasting time and money developing with synthetic oil ?

Synthetic oils would be patented by multinationals and a premium would be charged for them.

Mass commercial Hemp cultivation would not necessarily take up agricultural land as Ethanol presently does as it grows in substandard soils that are not suitable for normal agriculture so it would be easily possible for the US to produce enough hemp for itself so that it becomes self sufficient and also it could be grown in the Third World like Africa for example therefore providing a cash crop and income for those areas.

The facts on Hemp speak for themselves and their is not one negative against it.
The diesel engine was designed to run on oils like Hemp oil.

[Peter Wolf]

To add to the above:

As for manufaturing going abroad, the capitalist market ensures it goes to where it is produced the cheapest, a process that cannot be changed under any circumstance except totalitarian control -which I'm sure you don't want.It is also impossible to put everything ,or even just essentials within walking distance for the majority.Besides millions have their own transport ie the right to go where they want, when they want is an established individuals right -to even attempt to any way curb that is follly.

The so called capitalist system is already under totalitarian control wether you want it or not and its called Globalism.

If everyone is racked and stacked and packed into cities then everything is already within walking distance for everyone so its hardly impossible and since you are a strong advocate of that then thats an absurd statement.I live in a glorified seaside town that thinks its a city and i can walk to a doctor,a hospital,shops etc etc etc.....

Synthetic oil will be the holy grail and I believe, given the inevitable need and impetus will give the eventual answer.Yes we are not there yet, but as they say, necessity is the mother of invention.

Hemp .

Its very very simple.Plant Hemp seeds in the ground.Wait for the Hemp to grow and then at the right time harvest the Hemp and then boil it to extract the oil from the plant material and then you have the perfect non-polluting alternative to Oil from which you can produce anything that is presently derived from crude oil.

Why bother messing around and wasting time and money developing with synthetic oil ?

Synthetic oils would be patented by multinationals and a premium would be charged for them.

Mass commercial Hemp cultivation would not necessarily take up agricultural land as Ethanol presently does as it grows in substandard soils that are not suitable for normal agriculture so it would be easily possible for the US to produce enough hemp for itself so that it becomes self sufficient and also it could be grown in the Third World like Africa for example therefore providing a cash crop and income for those areas.

The facts on Hemp speak for themselves and their is not one negative against it.
The diesel engine was designed to run on oils like Hemp oil.

[JOE SOAP]

Mr Soap electricity can be supplied in abundance by nuclear power and coal powered stations which, as stated earlier still have over 100 years reserves.As for manufaturing going abroad, the capitalist market ensures it goes to where it is produced the cheapest, a process that cannot be changed under any circumstance except totalitarian control -which I'm sure you don't want.It is also impossible to put everything ,or even just essentials within walking distance for the majority.Besides millions have their own transport ie the right to go where they want, when they want is an established individuals right -to even attempt to any way curb that is follly.

...and how do you think they are built and how long do you think it takes to bring a nuclear plant online? Usually around 10 years. If more and more plants are built fossil fuel use will soar even more. As for coal, most of the easily mined stuff is gone if you can handle the pollution go ahead but going back to the coal option would be disatrous as it was previously for our skies and lungs. As with oil, coal reserves have been vastly inflated and prices have become prohibitive as use goes up. Although the price of coal has exponentially increased since 2002, reserves have still fallen, normally when prices go up, mine managers ramp up production as fast as possible and shortage quickly turns to glut, this hasn't happened, which suggests there's not as much as once conceived. This is similar to what is happening with oil, where fresh reserves have not been forthcoming despite soaring prices. To a growing number of oil industry commentators this is because we have reached, or are just about to reach, peak oil – the point at which oil production hits an all time high then goes into terminal decline. The industry has already produced most of the easily mined coal.

According to the International Energy Agency's latest long-term forecast, economic growth will require global coal production to rise by more than 70 per cent by 2030 so the world is heading for an energy crisis even worse than many all ready predict. Hopes that coal-derived liquid fuels will be able to step in as oil runs out will also be dashed.

Energy companies wouldn't be engaging in planet/health wrecking processes like fracking if there were other, easier, safer options.

The thing is curbing transport vehicles won't have to be enforced as it may become financially prohibitive for most. My point being is if they had continued building proper publict ransport infrastruture instead of obeying the influence of oil companies who bribed/encouraged governments to rip up railroads and tramlines, the problem would be lessened. It's all fine and dandy standing up for your rights to drive a care but that car may remain garage-bound and, if you read my previous post you will see I never said everything should be in walking distance, I said the necessities should be, which is hardly an impossibility since most towns functioned in this way before the industrial revolution and it was cheaper too.

The point is still that we have eaten up our mineral, metal, fossil etc. reserves too easily.

[The Sherman Kid]

To add to the above:

As for manufaturing going abroad, the capitalist market ensures it goes to where it is produced the cheapest, a process that cannot be changed under any circumstance except totalitarian control -which I'm sure you don't want.It is also impossible to put everything ,or even just essentials within walking distance for the majority.Besides millions have their own transport ie the right to go where they want, when they want is an established individuals right -to even attempt to any way curb that is follly.

If everyone is racked and stacked and packed into cities then everything is already within walking distance for everyone so its hardly impossible and since you are a strong advocate of that then thats an absurd statement.

Is your job within walking distance, your hospital, your doctor, your relatives??Think again

[JOE SOAP]

If everyone is racked and stacked and packed into cities then everything is already within walking distance for everyone so its hardly impossible and since you are a strong advocate of that then thats an absurd statement.

You're completely missing the point again, is your food grown in cities, can you walk to the place where it was grown and buy it direct? that would be a problem if fuel is too expensive to ship food/medicine/clothing etc. in ships/planes/trucks. Is there the available farm land to feed that entire city close by? I believe the suburbs may get in te way of that. The function of a modern city is merely to house people and provide dwellings for business/government not to provide locally the basics that 'support' life, the thousands of road miles within a large city is not only so we can whiz around on but to ship the food and goods et al which make a city sustainble at great cost plus a lot of vast modern suburbs/estates that encompass a city are geographically and civically badly designed  and have very few central local amenities you don't need a car to get to and from. Modern cities are not built for sustainability. The power needed to maintain and heat large buildings is too much.

The suburbs served by the vast mega-malls in the US in which most need cars to get to, will suffer most as energy resources dwindle.


The idea that we can become "energy independent" and maintain our current lifestyle is absurd.

[Peter Wolf]

If everyone is racked and stacked and packed into cities then everything is already within walking distance for everyone so its hardly impossible and since you are a strong advocate of that then thats an absurd statement.

You're completely missing the point again, is your food grown in cities, can you walk to the place where it was grown and buy it direct? that would be a problem if fuel is too expensive to ship food/medicine/clothing etc. in ships/planes/trucks. Is there the available farm land to feed that entire city close by? I believe the suburbs may get in te way of that. The function of a modern city is merely to house people and provide dwellings for business/government not to provide locally the basics that 'support' life, the thousands of road miles within a large city is not only so we can whiz around on but to ship the food and goods et al which make a city sustainble at great cost plus a lot of vast modern suburbs/estates that encompass a city are geographically and civically badly designed  and have very few central local amenities you don't need a car to get to and from. Modern cities are not built for sustainability. The power needed to maintain and heat large buildings is too much.

The suburbs served by the vast mega-malls in the US in which most need cars to get to, will suffer most as energy resources dwindle.

Missing the point again.Its becoming a habit 

What i meant was that i can walk to a shop and buy it.I can buy direct from a farmers market that sells local produce but obviously there isnt enough for everyone and only a minority buy from them.There is plenty of farmland outside of here but exactly how much farmland you would need is something i dont know.

I get your point about having to have everything imported into a city as its dependent and if something goes wrong you are completely vulnerable or you can be locked down into a city and it doesnt take very much for a city to descend into chaos and civil unrest and when that happens cities are not very pleasent places to be for the majority and even if you arent locked down if you want to get out by car you cant as the roads are gridlocked in no time at all.

Also some of the time i work where i live and other times not.

[exilewood]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G61RSRlVtJ4

[The Sherman Kid]

Yup, new topic time.
My suggestion is........some film called 'Dredd' 

[Dash Decent]

Can you also tell me what the meaning of life is

"It ends."

(See, I was paying attention.)

[Beaky Smoochies]

I wholeheartedly agree, more Dredd talk- what does fellow forum dwellers think of any potential merchandise for the new film, like, should there be any?  Should they licence deluxe Dredd and Anderson action figures, with Lawmaster sold separately, or is it better not to whore out the first proper 2000 A.D. movie...?

[vzzbux]

The more the better as far as Merch goes. But that would mean CF would have to extend his Cellar.




V