Kickstarter

[Jim_Campbell]

I maybe don't feel quite as strongly as this guy, but I do feel that for non-startups/small companies it feels a bit uncomfortable.

I'll confess that as soon as I got to the bit on the Kickstarter page about them meeting with Warners, I had the same thought. If it was just a case of everybody basically pre-buying the DVD, then I could sort of see it, but as the article points out, there are lots of people who are essentially investing in a studio production for zero return, and that's taking the piss.

Cheers

Jim

[TordelBack]

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/entertainment/2013/03/kickstarter-kind-of-annoying-isnt-it/63060/

I maybe don't feel quite as strongly as this guy, but I do feel that for non-startups/small companies it feels a bit uncomfortable.

I get the objections, indeed I've read them repeatedly in one form or another in relation to almost every trivial area of interest I have (music, comics, RPGs, minis, games, gadgets etc.) , but ultimately all this comes down to for me as a potential consumer is taking the risk of paying in advance for something you otherwise might never see made.

It's taking decisions about funding out of the hands of the usual financiers and giving it to the punters - I don't think it matters who gets the money.  I wouldn't care if it was Disney itself looking for the dosh to make (for example) a 6th Season of recently-cancelled Clone Wars, as long as I got to see it made.  Every time you buy a cinema ticket or a book you're effectively paying in advance anyway, this is just slightly riskier and doesn't involve trusting reviewers.

[JOE SOAP]

there are lots of people who are essentially investing in a studio production for zero return, and that's taking the piss.

Well no, the vast majority at least get a t-shirt and a digital copy of the film. That's more or less what they're paying for.

[TordelBack]

there are lots of people who are essentially investing in a studio production for zero return, and that's taking the piss.

Well no, the vast majority at least get a t-shirt and a digital copy of the film. That's more or less what they're paying for.

That's the thing.  I have no interest in 'investing' in anything, and would direct anyone who does to microfinancing instea, where the returns are real.  With Kickstarter, I just want to get the sh*t.  This is what we do.  We are men, and Lois, and we get the sh*t.

[radiator]

It's hard not to see that this is some kind of future for such projects. For those of us online arguing that we want The X-Files 3 or Dredd 2, are we willing to put our hands in our pockets in advance, and pay for them?

http://www.denofgeek.com/movies/veronica-mars/24814/veronica-mars-crowdfunding-and-funding-genre-movies

[JOE SOAP]

That's the thing.  I have no interest in 'investing' in anything,

You're more or less 'investing' in the future of a property that otherwise had none. I doubt returns will be huge for WB out of this but I wouldn't mind paying 30 beans to see pre-devloped 2000AD material in other media. Personally, I'd pay more.

[radiator]

Imo anything that tips the balance towards dedicated, intelligent fans and away from the lowest common denominator mentality can only be a good thing.

I can't imagine they would raise much at all if they tried to do a Kickstarter for the next Resident Evil movie for example, whereas I can imagine something with a hardcore cult following like Dredd or Firefly getting a lot of attention and support.

[Steve Green]

Maybe DNA haven't got around to sending invoices out to all the fans they namechecked in Dredd...

That billboard looked expensive.

[TordelBack]

You're more or less 'investing' in the future of a property that otherwise had none.

True - I suppose what I mean is that I'm not looking for returns other than those explicitly spelled out, which is something I do every time I purchase a product or service which I have no specific prior experience of.  I want something to happen, I put down the cash, it happens (or doesn't).  Given my own personal history in actually investing in businesses I admit that I'm probably finagling the definition to avoid unpleasant associations.

There are plenty ofother  ways of investing in companies, people and concepts for all types of returns, moral, practical and financial - Kickstarter (for me*) is a simple way of getting products (in the widest sense) I want and can't otherwise have.



*Disclosure: I have backed precisely one KS, but I find following them fascinating.  If I had any dosh, I would be an addict.

[JOE SOAP]

Imo anything that tips the balance towards dedicated, intelligent fans and away from the lowest common denominator mentality can only be a good thing.

I can't imagine they would raise much at all if they tried to do a Kickstarter for the next Resident Evil movie for example, whereas I can imagine something with a hardcore cult following like Dredd or Firefly getting a lot of attention and support.

Intelligence rarely comes into these things, it's satiation, and I don't doubt an RE project would take millions.

What it does is it gives people an oppurtunity in a different market that wasn't there in the first place.

[JOE SOAP]

Maybe DNA haven't got around to sending invoices out to all the fans they namechecked in Dredd...

That billboard looked expensive.

Believe me, I've paid for it.

[JOE SOAP]

You're more or less 'investing' in the future of a property that otherwise had none.

True - I suppose what I mean is that I'm not looking for returns other than those explicitly spelled out, which is something I do every time I purchase a product or service which I have no specific prior experience of.

That's the thing isn't it; $35 is nothing considering you will get what you're paying for in a one-and-done payment and you get to own it too, rather than paying the cinema for a once-off then the retailer for the blu-ray.

[radiator]

Imo anything that tips the balance towards dedicated, intelligent fans and away from the lowest common denominator mentality can only be a good thing.

I can't imagine they would raise much at all if they tried to do a Kickstarter for the next Resident Evil movie for example, whereas I can imagine something with a hardcore cult following like Dredd or Firefly getting a lot of attention and support.

Intelligence rarely comes into these things, it's satiation, and I don't doubt an RE project would take millions.

What it does is it gives people an oppurtunity in a different market that wasn't there in the first place.

My point is that I'm assuming the type of people who back Kickstarter projects - who even know what Kickstarter is - are literate, tech-savvy people who have discerning tastes in media. I doubt the type of people who go and see each Resident Evil film even know there is a new one in production until they arrive at the cinema and pick a film to watch. In the case of Resi, the fanbase is probably too young to have access to  credit cards.

As for me, I have already invested in a couple of Kickstarter projects (the Death of Superman doc and a Game of Thrones podcast). I find it satisfying, and the personal connection it gives me with the projects in question gives me a warm glow.

True - I suppose what I mean is that I'm not looking for returns other than those explicitly spelled out, which is something I do every time I purchase a product or service which I have no specific prior experience of.  I want something to happen, I put down the cash, it happens (or doesn't).  Given my own personal history in actually investing in businesses I admit that I'm probably finagling the definition to avoid unpleasant associations.

Further to this point, I essentially see my annual pre-ordering of the Game of Thrones Blu Ray box set as my 'investing' in the next series of it.

[JOE SOAP]

I doubt the type of people who go and see each Resident Evil film even know there is a new one in production until they arrive at the cinema and pick a film to watch. In the case of Resi, the fanbase is probably too young to have access to  credit cards.

I doubt they they always buy their own 'X-boxes' and games with cash either though the average age of the audience for RE films is 25. Kids are also getting older these days.

[IndigoPrime]

The important thing to understand is what Kickstarter is, and that's where a lot of people fall down. Too many assume it's some kind of pre-order. It's not. Ultimately, regardless of the size of a project, Kickstarter is a punt. You 'invest' in a project that may or may not happen. It's a risk and not a certainty.

However, if you do understand that, I find it hard to get angry about any level of Kickstarter. Is it irritating when massive projects that potentially could be funded by other means get millions while tiny and brilliant indie ideas get nothing? Sure, but welcome to the world and capitalism. But on looking at it another way: direct funding to get something funded that otherwise probably wouldn't be is an interesting future for media.

Publishers, studios and so on so often appeal to the lowest common denominator. They play the short game rather than the long, not giving things a chance to exist or, once made, to live on. Of course, rights issues still remain. I think it's naïve for people to assume Firefly would now be on season five had Kickstarter existed back in the day—after all, Fox's talons remain securely fixed to that shiny disc cash cow. But it does provide an interesting alternative to standard business models when all the pieces fall into place, and one where people really can put their money where their mouths are.

Also, it's interesting to see the size of projects that Kickstarter is funding. We're now getting into seven figures, one of which is to be a movie. Give it a year or two and we might get into eight. While I think it's vanishingly unlikely Dredd 2 would exist today purely through crowdfunding, it's not beyond the realms of possibility to imagine a much-loved movie that studios are wary on getting funded to the tune of $30m on Kickstarter in a few years from now.