The Political Thread

[The Legendary Shark]

I remember the same discussion about not leaving office surrounding Bush. And Obama.

[Jim_Campbell]

I remember the same discussion about not leaving office surrounding Bush. And Obama.

Links, please.

[JayzusB.Christ]

Well, that's it done then, I suppose. Off you pop.  I expect we might see Scotland and Northern Ireland back before long though.

[IAMTHESYSTEM]

Well, it's a Brave New World. I suspect things a year from now will be more expensive, hectic and unhappy, but some sort of pain is inevitable. It's a new path, and one less travelled, and we're out of the EU until WW3 happens. Not a very enticing prospect, but we can still support our European neighbours since their troubles, and our own, tend to be shared ones. Leaving is a bugger for sure, but it's done now, and there is no road back. So since many of our forum members are Irish, I will embarrass myself by saying Slan Abhaile, 'Safe Home.' Er, I can't speak any Gaelic, I Looked it up on the Internet!     

[TordelBack]

Cheers IATS, good choice of words.

This is a sad morning to wake up to, not least because we all have *way* bigger fish to fry than all this insensate pettiness, and need to be pulling together not falling apart.

But when I see the usual suspects banging on about winning freedom from foreign control and regaining their independence all I want to do is punch something. Fucking morons, outright gulled by rich bastards.

[Jim_Campbell]

Well, that's any hope that things might get more sensible now we've got past 'Brexit Day' out of the window.

Boris Johnson plans to 'put pressure on the EU' by hampering the inward flow of goods to the UK... basically imposing sanctions on his own country.

(The UK imports over a third of all the food consumed in the country, and 80% of that comes from the EU.)

[JayzusB.Christ]

Yes, it's time we EU fascists started upping our bullying tactics, by reminding people of the same rules that were clearly laid out before the referendum, and not treating Britain like the Empire it hasn't been since early last century.

[IndigoPrime]

Boris Johnson plans to 'put pressure on the EU' by hampering the inward flow of goods to the UK...

"EU causes food shortages across entire UK"

Mrs IP and I were talking a bit about this last night. Without hyperbole, we were starting to get to that point of "at what point did Germans in the 1930s recognise something was up, and how many of them could actually move?" Even if the UK doesn't descend into fascism, the foundations are being erected.

As for Shark's earlier point, I recall idiots on the GoP side throwing around bullshit that Obama would set himself up for life and never leave. The difference this time is the US constitution is being trashed, and it's clearly not robust enough to deal with someone who doesn't play by the rules. (See also: the British constitution.) But in an echo of British politics, the opposition in the US seems to think it's time is better spent arguing with and vilifying each other over details than wholeheartedly attacking Trump. They're fracturing. He will at the very least win a second term.

[TordelBack]

Oh feck it, I've just deleted a long angry rant. Nothing to see here.

[blackmocco]

I think a lot of Leave voters will take it as read that Brexit is "done". They didn't bother informing themselves of the inconvenient nitty-gritty at any other point during the process, so I don't think they'll start now. The Tories will certainly try to spin this as "delivering Brexit" and I'm sure their friends in the broadcast and print media will repeat this message as uncritically as everything else that comes out of the Conservative press office.

If this goes off the front page, away from the glare of constant coverage, I suspect a lot of cans will get kicked down the road and a lot of red lines will quietly go away.

Notice that Rees-Mogg has been deleting every Tweet on his timeline that claimed "no deal was better than a bad deal". The ERG doesn't have the luxury of being a protest group within the Tories any more — they own this now. It's in the Tories' interests to give the impression that this is all done and then try to steer a far less disastrous course when they think no one is looking.

I feel like it'll be the same story with Trump when he is finally out of office. Being as objective as I possibly can be, he has done very little to make the lives of his core supporters better in any tangible way - in many ways he has made them far worse with his awful tax policies, the destruction of environmental protections, the impact of his trade war of the farming community and the stripping away of healthcare.... And yet his term will inevitably be looked back on with great fondness and reverence by the majority of those who voted for him.

They don't care about his policies. They don't care about what happens to the country. They're just enjoying sticking it to anyone who doesn't agree with them. That is literally the only reason. "Take that, libtard!" There's not one rational or intelligent argument to defend him and his base has embraced that mantra. It's a pathetic cult. And yeah, he's getting another four years and then he'll put forward one of his human dud children to take over the mantle. And they'll probably win too. So, make of that what you will.

[The Legendary Shark]

Oh feck it, I've just deleted a long angry rant. Nothing to see here.

Heh, me too.

Anybody fancy a pint?

[von Boom]

Oh feck it, I've just deleted a long angry rant. Nothing to see here.

Heh, me too.

Anybody fancy a pint?

Or 10?

[JayzusB.Christ]

I've managed six today, and I still don't feel happy about Trump and Brexit.

[Jim_Campbell]

Well, the Brexiteers have taken to Twitter shouting "See, the planes are still flying and there's still food on the supermarket shelves — we told you it was all Project Fear"...

Blithely ignoring the reality (as Brexiteers are wont to do) that none of that shit is happening precisely because the Brexit hardliners were prevented from pushing through a no deal Brexit. They're crowing about a thing they literally decried as a betrayal of Brexit and fought against tooth and claw.

As always, the indefatigable David Allen Green has more to say on the subject.

[IndigoPrime]

Respectfully, I disagree on this, Jim. The people are not ignoring reality – they are reframing reality. This is semi-coordinated gaslighting. Hannan and co. are well aware we are in transition. This is getting the message to the masses that 'remoaners' were all wrong and Project Fear was right. By the time problems do kick in, the excuse will be that it was nothing to do with Brexit anyway, because that happened a year ago.

This gaslighting and 'intentional delusion' is now the heart of British government. Johnson's current rubbish about the EU 'reneging' on its deal is an excellent example. The EU is merely sticking to what Johnson signed. But Johnson talks shit and the entire media parrots it, because reportage now beats even the slightest bit of investigation. And we are all somewhat complicit in this – after all, when did anyone here last buy a newspaper?

(I've been the same. As Brexit loomed into view, I decided to put a little money where my mouth is, and bought a Guardian digital thing. Even so, it's still less than actually buying the paper would net them.)