Wonder Woman 2017

[Rogue Earthlet]

Funny, I just looked at the blog of arch MRA critic David Futrelle, in which he slags off the Red Pill, which he tells us he hasn't seen. Does that make him 'whiny'?

Yes, it would (although I haven't read the piece so I don't actually know), but Futrelle's site is heavily skewed towards irony and humorous effect, and I do know that his cited objection dates back to the film's Kickstarter and the demonstrable filth (like Milo Yiannopoulos, Breitbart and MR sub-Redditors) who supported it - so he couldn't possibly be expected to have seen the thing when he started objecting to it.  There's some merit in a 'if they're for it, I'm ag'in it' approach.

So, 'don't comment on a film you haven't seen' is subject to exceptions?

[Jim_Campbell]

So, 'don't comment on a film you haven't seen' is subject to exceptions?

There's a substantial difference between 'comment' and 'build an entirely specious argument on'.

[Frank]

What harm is done?

I've never liked it ...

Not my question. What does it matter who dies, or how that's depicted, if no negative effect is produced?

[TordelBack]

So, 'don't comment on a film you haven't seen' is subject to exceptions?

It's not advisable under any circumstances, but much as I would run screaming from the prospect of Shia La Boeuf starring in Michael Bay's production of Michael Fleischer's script for Dredd 2, objecting to a film that hasn't been made yet because its financial backers and cheerleaders are the actual objective scum of the earth is understandable. In the way that punching people is generally wrong, but punching Nazis somehow never is.

[Apestrife]

There's a substantial difference between 'comment' and 'build an entirely specious argument on'.

That.

Also, again. Why not just start a new thread. "Films I haven't seen, and my opinion on them." or something.

[Arkwright99]

...Atomic Blonde (I haven't seen it[/b] but it's been getting pretty good reviews)...

Expect to be told off for making a comment on a film you haven't seen.

Atomic Blonde hasn't opened in the UK yet so James can hardly be expected to have seen it already. But then you seem to have missed the vital distinction that, unlike you, James isn't commenting on a film he hasn't seen, merely mentioning that he thinks it's been getting pretty good reviews. Conversely I've seen reviews which say it's good on action (violence) but thin on story; either way that won't put me off seeing it for myself when it opens this month. Charlize Theron beating up East German spies (men) in an '80s West Berlin certainly looks like fun.

This has been a fascinating thread (despite, or because of, the red pill paranoia) and I'd like to expand it out slightly by saying that these days I much prefer to play female protagonists in action/RPG video games - there's not much that beats Jennifer Hale as Commander Shepard kicking ass in the Mass Effect Trilogy - so much so that I can hardly bring myself to play a game where the only gender choice for the protagonist is male (yes, Uncharted 4 I'm looking at you). It's such a boring, uninteresting, trope because its been done to death (because it's the patriarchal norm). Horizon Zero Dawn is a great game in its own right but its also an exceptionally great game for having such an awesome female protagonist in Aloy. Every time I start a new BioWare RPG I will, without fail, play it as a female PC first and then a male PC second time around; and then (depending on the game) alternate genders on subsequent playthroughs. Does it give me any pause for thought or concern when my female PC slaughters a ton of faceless male bandits in Dragon Age II? Nope, not one iota; no more than when my male PC does the same. I'm not sure what it says about me that I prefer to roleplay strong female characters in my video games. I do know however what it says about MRA supporters that they get their knickers in such a twist whenever women are portrayed with any kind of positive agency in media.

I genuinely don't know why (some) men have such an aversion to celebrating strong women in movies, TV, games or comics. Looking at my monthly comic purchases the vast majority feature strong female protagonists: Batwoman, Harley Quinn, Doom Patrol, Shade the Changing Girl, Black Magick, Paper Girls, WicDiv, All-New Wolverine, Gwenpool, Invincble Iron Man, Mighty Thor, Ms Marvel, Unstoppable Wasp, Beautiful Canvas, Freeway Fighter, Red Sonja, Stained, Tank Girl, The Unsound, Empty Zone, The Discipline, The Old Guard, Monstess. I think it's great that there's so many different types of stories out there but apparently it's all this diversity that's killing comics. Go figure. 

[IndigoPrime]

Quite. And I'd like to add that we need more than just "strong female characters", which is something I've heard from many quarters. We need more female characters, period. We need more of them in crowd scenes, as both name and unnamed characters in movies, on telly, and in comics. I've mentioned here before that so often in Dredd we see only male judges pottering about the place, which seems insane in a world with Hershey as Chief Judge.

As for Marvel's shifts in that direction, the one thing that disappoints me there so far is that they haven't announced a 13-part Ms. Marvel TV show on Netflix.

[Apestrife]

We need more female characters, period.

True that.

Every sort of character between Daisy Domergue to Marge Gunderson.

[Rogue Earthlet]

So, 'don't comment on a film you haven't seen' is subject to exceptions?

It's not advisable under any circumstances, but much as I would run screaming from the prospect of Shia La Boeuf starring in Michael Bay's production of Michael Fleischer's script for Dredd 2, objecting to a film that hasn't been made yet because its financial backers and cheerleaders are the actual objective scum of the earth is understandable. In the way that punching people is generally wrong, but punching Nazis somehow never is.

And honest German soldiers doing their duty?

[TordelBack]

Honestly lad, your style of argument is just impenetrable. If you have such a gigantic problem with violence in entertainment as a whole (which is a point of view) why are you picking on a film you haven't even seen, and that as a result you grossly misunderstand the plot and themes of? Why not one you have seen, and thus could speak authoratively about?

And why are you doing it all on the fan forum of a comic that prides itself on depictions of violence as entertainment? Including, I might add, multiple instances of violence against honest German soldiers.

[SIP]

Honestly lad, your style of argument is just impenetrable. If you have such a gigantic problem with violence in entertainment as a whole (which is a point of view) why are you picking on a film you haven't even seen, and that as a result you grossly misunderstand the plot and themes of? Why not one you have seen, and thus could speak authoratively about?

And why are you doing it all on the fan forum of a comic that prides itself on depictions of violence as entertainment? Including, I might add, multiple instances of violence against ordinary German soldiers.

I feel your pain Tordels, though I fear he's really just winding us all up and constantly stoking the fire...... I would be tempted to just let it die out.

[TordelBack]

You are of course correct, Mr. P. I will do as you suggest.

[SIP]

You are of course correct, Mr. P. I will do as you suggest.

There has been so much in depth and excellent discussion and  reasoned argument on this thread that if he's refusing to acknowledge any of it by this point, he's either an immovable object or just plain winding us all up!

[Frank]

What harm is done?

I've never liked it ...

Not my question. What does it matter who dies, or how that's depicted, if no negative effect is produced?

[M.I.K.]

I'm not entirely sure what's going on in Rogue Earthlet's head, but I think these panels from the comic strip he's working on, (easily accessible from the facebook page he posted a link to earlier), may offer an insight... LINK  (WARNING : NSFW)

...and that's why I'm not even attempting to argue with him.