2000 AD Online Forum

Spoilers => Prog => Topic started by: Richard on 13 July, 2019, 12:39:23 PM

Title: Prog 2140 - Deep in the Bone
Post by: Richard on 13 July, 2019, 12:39:23 PM
This is top quality this week.

There's an excellent one-off Judge Dredd story by Rory McConville and Tom Foster. I think we've seen Tom before, but I can't remember when/where. But his style is very reminiscent of Brian Bolland's, in a good way. I'd like to see more from him. If Tharg doesn't get Brian back for the episode when Hershey dies (as she surely must soon, and he did her first episode), I'd like to see Tom Foster do it. The story is Rory at his best.

It's actually possible to follow what's happening in Indigo Prime this week, which is nice. It's also quite eventful. Ditto Anderson, and I'm still a fan of Aneke's style, whatever others might think of it.

I'm not usually keen on Absalom, but this episode is fantastic. I can't really explain why without spoiling it, but it's just great and it has made me care about two characters in a strip where I didn't care about any of them before.

Thistlebone seems to introduce the bad guy at last, unless it's just misdirection (and unless we actually have seen him before and I'm just having a senior moment).

There's a Droid Life and some letters.

All in all, nothing was disappointing this week. And the Megazine has arrived too!
Title: Re: Prog 2140 - Deep in the Bone
Post by: broodblik on 13 July, 2019, 12:51:02 PM
Tom Foster's last Dredd story was in prog 2040 "The Wrap-Up". He also did a story in the Judge Dredd Megazine "Storm Warning" running from 404 to 408.
Title: Re: Prog 2140 - Deep in the Bone
Post by: Eamonn Clarke on 13 July, 2019, 01:12:56 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/ad9dw4U.jpg)

Simon Davis
Title: Re: Prog 2140 - Deep in the Bone
Post by: Richard on 13 July, 2019, 01:14:20 PM
Thank you both.
Title: Re: Prog 2140 - Deep in the Bone
Post by: Colin YNWA on 13 July, 2019, 03:21:20 PM
What a striking cover, really bold and I love it.

The Dredd was a fun one off by McConville, with some lovely art by Tom Foster. Seemed to go a little overboard on the lighting effects in the aircraft which I found a little distracting from his otherwise sharp style. Minor complaint at the end of the day.

Indigo Prime continues in fine style. It'll be interest to get a sense of the pacing when this latest run is read of one. Here feels like we're been thrown into the dramatic finale of a high octane movie. It works but I'm intrigued how it will read as a whole.

Anderson truddles on and for me isn't getting there.

Absalom is magnificent a really nice pay off to the set up from a couple of weeks ago. Took me a little bit to get into the rhythm of episode, but when I did it just sang. Brilliant.

Finally Thistlebone seems to stab the horror home, but I wonder if its playing with us. The fact that I'm feverishly guessing and counter guessing speaks volumes for the quality of this story.

Nice Prog.
Title: Re: Prog 2140 - Deep in the Bone
Post by: Richard on 13 July, 2019, 11:37:11 PM
Tom Foster also did a Terror Tale in prog 1886.
Title: Re: Prog 2140 - Deep in the Bone
Post by: glassstanley on 14 July, 2019, 06:57:25 AM
Stand out for me was Absalom by a long-shot. That's not because the other strips were weak. They're not, it's a strong prog and I share the love for Thistledown.

But (avoiding spoilers) this week's Absalom ... Zarjaz!
Title: Re: Prog 2140 - Deep in the Bone
Post by: Geoff on 14 July, 2019, 05:26:30 PM
Absalom was great, it's the story that's gripping me the most in 2000ad at the moment.

The cover is a stunner too, and Indigo Prime is bonkers (in a good way) with impressive art.

Speaking of impressive art, it's such a pleasure to see Tom Foster on Dredd and with a good script as well.  The colouring does verge on the gaudy though.

Anderson and Thistlebore drag this week's prog down. The art on Anderson is just weak and I have no interest in the story. With Thistlebone there's no complaints about the art, which is glorious but it's Part 6 now, six episodes and very little has really happened.  It was funny though when the journalist asks the other character 'Are you okay? You look pale.' You want her to reply, 'Really, you've only just noticed...'
Title: Re: Prog 2140 - Deep in the Bone
Post by: Frank on 14 July, 2019, 05:58:19 PM
Quote from: Geoff on 14 July, 2019, 05:26:30 PM
... six episodes and very little has really happened.  It was funny though when the journalist asks the other character 'Are you okay? You look pale.' You want her to reply, 'Really, you've only just noticed...'

Arf!  Avril's surname is Tretchikoff (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Girl).


Title: Re: Prog 2140 - Deep in the Bone
Post by: IndigoPrime on 15 July, 2019, 09:34:15 AM
Yeah, a good Dredd in all. Foster's art seems much sketchier and looser than in previous Dredds he's done, which had tighter old-school inking more akin to Bolland. I do hope the reason he's infrequently in the Prog is because he's busy elsewhere.

Indigo Prime carries on doing its thing. I quite like it, with Kek-W continuing to nudge a 0.7 on the WeirdSmith-O-Meter. Fab art, as ever.

Anderson: it to some extent feels a bit by-the-numbers Anderson in the script department, but that's no bad thing. I suppose it'd help if I cared more about Karyn, but she was historically just brought it as an Anderson replacement when the more famous spy buggered off. Now she's kind of a Corey replacement. The art's solid. There are things I find odd (notably the shoulder eagle), but there's dynamism and a new take here, and so that's to be encouraged.

Absalom was horrible, as you'd expect. Proper gut-wrenching stuff, and wonderfully realised visually. I've always really liked this strip, and it's good that it'll get to go out with a bang.

Thistlebone seems very slow burn. I'm honestly not sure what I think of it yet, but I continue to be intrigued. Nice cover art, too.

In all, then, a perfect hit-rate Prog for me, in that every strip was at least pretty good. (It was also interesting to see The Beano in WHSmith yesterday – the Prog's only 10p more expensive, which strikes me as bloody good these days, given that Dennis and co. must sell a lot more copies.)
Title: Re: Prog 2140 - Deep in the Bone
Post by: Proudhuff on 16 July, 2019, 10:29:23 AM
Nice cover, quite different, hopefully put in the curious.
damage report? more like top gear!

Enjoyed the Dredd, art and story vaguely old sckool but fu. Judge Pin returns next week, if the Megazine ad is to be believed.

Indigo and Anderson I may return to, but currently not catching my eye..

Absalom and Thistledonicely both cracking on art and stories

Six letters but no Butt'man, will he ever reach a century  :-X
Title: Re: Prog 2140 - Deep in the Bone
Post by: Magnetica on 16 July, 2019, 10:27:18 PM
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 15 July, 2019, 09:34:15 AM
Anderson: it to some extent feels a bit by-the-numbers Anderson in the script department, but that's no bad thing. I suppose it'd help if I cared more about Karyn, but she was historically just brought it as an Anderson replacement when the more famous spy buggered off. Now she's kind of a Corey replacement. The art's solid. There are things I find odd (notably the shoulder eagle), but there's dynamism and a new take here, and so that's to be encouraged.

I thought the way the shoulder eagle was drawn with the wings not rigidly attached to the body of the bird, made sense from a practical point of view, providing more flexibility and a greater range of movement for the wearer.
Title: Re: Prog 2140 - Deep in the Bone
Post by: broodblik on 17 July, 2019, 02:15:42 PM
A very good prog again

Many times, I have been critical of McConville's Dredd stories because it will fluctuate between average and good. This round we get the good. What a enjoyable story from art to script.

Indigo Prime
From script side: it has very nice pictures
From the art side: it has very nice pictures

The ending of Absalom is just so sad but we knew from the beginning that we will have collateral damage. Rennie produces a brilliant script with great art from Tiernen
Title: Re: Prog 2140 - Deep in the Bone
Post by: Frank on 17 July, 2019, 04:16:43 PM
Quote from: broodblik on 17 July, 2019, 02:15:42 PM
Indigo Prime
From script side: it has very nice pictures
From the art side: it has very nice pictures

Arf!  I wasn't going to bother commenting on Smithless Indigo Prime at all, but I thought of something to say about it beyond I wish John Smith was writing this, so here goes*

I like that Kek-W's technobabble has a foothold in scientific vocabulary - rather than Smith's random, hyphenated collission of terms he'd overheard on Tomorrow's World and nouns from the Dusseldorf phonebook - but the scenarios he's devised for Carter to illustrate have been mundane and domestic.

Billy Burroughs writing his way out of the Nihilist's mental trap meant some nice images of Marrakesh, and Carter's turned in some very good work, but considering so many of the events in this story take place inside the realm of imagination (where anything is possible), the visuals have been curiously tame.

Feel free to clap-back that defining an interdimensional space station as 'domestic' is tendentious, but even without going into the obviously wild likes of a Playstation-controlled Cthulhu/Jesus hybrid and Giant Monster Sex, I don't think post-Smith Prime has inspired Carter to get his teeth into anything as spectacular and Big Night Out as:


(https://i.imgur.com/so9rubF.jpg?1)


... or as playfully provocative and iconoclastic as a Pulp Fiction caveman taking in the sights at Golgotha:


(https://i.imgur.com/wU9NBKh.jpg?1)


... or as hilariously scurrilous as Phil & Liz getting the Gunther von Hagens treatment in Buck House, occupied by David Ike NWO lizard Nazis:


(https://i.imgur.com/OZkkpNh.jpg?1)


Kek-W has done a very respectable job of turning Indigo Prime into something a comic editor would recognise as a story, complete with crossovers and interpersonal character conflicts, but it isn't bringing out the fireworks from his artist in the same way as sitting up until 7 in the morning watching Youtube documentaries about the Pharaohs drinking Spar shop cider did.

If there is a reason for continuing Indigo Prime without Smith, it's that Carter has invested just as much in the strip as its creator over recent years and deserves to profit from its success. But, so far, this is selling him short. 


* DISCLAIMER: I'M IDEOLOGICALLY OPPOSED TO CONTINUING INDIGO PRIME WITHOUT JOHN SMITH, SO I'M ESSENTIALLY A BAD FAITH ACTOR AND MY OPINIONS SHOULD BE UNDERSTOOD IN THAT CONTEXT
Title: Re: Prog 2140 - Deep in the Bone
Post by: TordelBack on 17 July, 2019, 05:03:20 PM
I too acknowledge that I may acting in bad faith when discussing post-Smith Indigo Prime, and I think Kek-W has consistently been one of the brightest lights in the Prog since at least Second City Blues (which I would very much like to see him writing a sequel to).  As I think John himself remarked, the direction the strip has taken has just seemed so obvious, swapping endlessly expansive for madly involuted, a real point of contrast with The Order or Deadworld, where the craziness just seems to get bigger and bigger with every run.  Even the surprise guest stars are more fun in Nigel's own creations. 

Speaking from my usual position of complete editorial ignorance and sublime fan entitlement, iff a continuation of IP had to happen after Smith's departure, there should have been a complete break in characters and storyline immediately after Carter's already-drawn episodes had run: a giant unresolved 'Meanwhile...'.  I think a big mistake was made in following Danny, Unther and Herr Schroeder, integral to Smith's longest-running IP plot, but not really to the potential of the setting itself.  A narrative break would have been in keeping with both Smith's staccato IP output and the multiversal scope of the setting, and given a hugely creative writer a largely blank canvas to go nuts all over.

It would also, crucially for me, have at least held the door open a crack for another of 2000AD's very finest writers to return and pick up his own threads in some far happier distant future.

Title: Re: Prog 2140 - Deep in the Bone
Post by: norton canes on 18 July, 2019, 10:02:55 AM
Fantastic to see Tom Foster back, bringing his Bolland-y goodness to Dredd. Is there more than a little homage there..?

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/14/48/b7/1448b7fab9a1ad1c8c4ff074c38f1589.jpg)

Also, 'Mackerel' and 'Petrol'? Am I missing some kind of pun? Will I be posting about this in the 'Things that went over you head' thread in a few years time?

Meanwhile, Absalom is just stunning - I think I might have to actually take my scissors to the prog and rearrange those panels so they read in the correct order. It's an amazing conceit, very reminiscent of Steven Moffat's best ideas in Doctor Who.

Thankfully I'm starting to get on the right frequencies to enjoy Indigo Prime and Thistlebone. The stumbling block I have with IP is that my 26-year 2000 AD hiatus began just as the strip was getting started, so I've never really experienced the John Smith version. There have been some nice concepts in this Kek-W continuation, though I still think I'd prefer shorter, 3-4 part self-contained stories.
Title: Re: Prog 2140 - Deep in the Bone
Post by: Geoff on 18 July, 2019, 06:08:37 PM
Good spot Norton, must be an homage - too similar to be coincidence!

I'm also wondering about the Petrol and Mackerel... must mean something.

Mackerel's suit looked like it had the markings of one but that's all I've got.
Title: Re: Prog 2140 - Deep in the Bone
Post by: JayzusB.Christ on 20 July, 2019, 04:28:52 PM
Bloody hell, I'd forgotten about the delightful sight of Prince Phil the Greek's flabby, dead arse from Smith-era IP.  I like Kek-W a lot but John is one of my all-time comic favourites so it's hard to get into other people writing his characters. 
Title: Re: Prog 2140 - Deep in the Bone
Post by: Richard on 20 July, 2019, 06:40:28 PM
That was always going to be a challenge, but I would rather have new Indigo Prime than not have any.
Title: Re: Prog 2140 - Deep in the Bone
Post by: Robin Low on 21 July, 2019, 05:17:21 PM
For the record, I would very, very much like to see Indigo Prime collected in the large hardback format. Lee Carter's art deserves nothing less.

I've always thought Killing Time was one of the best things Smith, Weston and 2000AD ever did. So since that, too, deserves to be available in a large hardback format, let's just collect the whole damn lot of Indigo Prime in the same format and be done with it.

Regards,

Robin
Title: Re: Prog 2140 - Deep in the Bone
Post by: Magnetica on 21 July, 2019, 11:50:04 PM
Quote from: Robin Low on 21 July, 2019, 05:17:21 PM
For the record, I would very, very much like to see Indigo Prime collected in the large hardback format. Lee Carter's art deserves nothing less.

I've always thought Killing Time was one of the best things Smith, Weston and 2000AD ever did. So since that, too, deserves to be available in a large hardback format, let's just collect the whole damn lot of Indigo Prime in the same format and be done with it.

Regards,

Robin

I am never happy to see Indigo Prime in the Prog but I think I would buy a collected edition, just to see if I can finally make head or tail of it after all these years. :lol:
Title: Re: Prog 2140 - Deep in the Bone
Post by: Frank on 22 July, 2019, 10:22:26 PM
Quote from: Magnetica on 21 July, 2019, 11:50:04 PM
I am never happy to see Indigo Prime in the Prog but I think I would buy a collected edition, just to see if I can finally make head or tail of it after all these years. :lol:

A large company has taken control of Indigo Prime and now the guy who had the idea for Indigo Prime in the first place has been taken out of the picture.

How's that for meta-fiction?

(https://i.imgur.com/t8yPzUb.jpg?1)


Title: Re: Prog 2140 - Deep in the Bone
Post by: TordelBack on 22 July, 2019, 11:32:46 PM
Very pleasing Prog under an arsom cover and a chuckleworthy Droid Life.

Pick of the litter was undoubtedly Absalom, Rennie & TT delivering a wonderfully clever take on an old chestnut, as compact and successful a piece of storytelling as you're likely to see in comics.

Close second was Thistlebone, which has definitely hit its narrative stride while continuing to be hypnotically gorgeous.  We are so damn lucky to have an artist like SDB working so regularly on the prog.  Quick quibble, stabbing someone with a closed secateurs has to be a tricky thing, those things only have one edge.

Not far behind, Foster works his lovely magic on Dredd, with a McConville alien zoo story that is just one additional teensy idea short of being totally satisfying. Being devoid of creative juices, I have no clue what that idea might be, of course. The phrase round these parts is 'hurler on the ditch'.

Anderson worked a lot better this week. Aneke seems to have mastered the bikes and tech along with her lovely uniforms and everything seemed a lot more cohesive this week.  A classic Anderson move in that final panel!

Indigo Prime: I've said my piece already.
Title: Re: Prog 2140 - Deep in the Bone
Post by: jabish on 23 July, 2019, 09:54:09 AM
I think it could have been a nice idea cos between Weston, Carter and the brilliant and missed Edmund Bagwell it would be an amazing volume art wise. The problem is it is no longer one writer's vision. This is not to shit on Kek-W whose work I like, but imagine a complete Indigo Prime hardcover that was all John Smith's vision for the characters he created. That is the missed opportunity I think. Alas.


Quote from: Robin Low on 21 July, 2019, 05:17:21 PM
For the record, I would very, very much like to see Indigo Prime collected in the large hardback format. Lee Carter's art deserves nothing less.

I've always thought Killing Time was one of the best things Smith, Weston and 2000AD ever did. So since that, too, deserves to be available in a large hardback format, let's just collect the whole damn lot of Indigo Prime in the same format and be done with it.

Regards,

Robin
Title: Re: Prog 2140 - Deep in the Bone
Post by: Tiplodocus on 24 July, 2019, 09:48:09 AM
Well I enjoyed all of that.

Dredd was great and love the art though character design a little on the safe and contemporary side. The real evil idea was that the apparently fully sentient slug should be in the Zoo in the first place. Has Dredd forgotten Tweak or his own anti-vivisection laws?

But Absalom is pick of the bunch. Just brilliant stuff. Art, basil, dialogue, pacing all bounce off each other in seemingly effortless fashion to create great tension and then shock!
Title: Re: Prog 2140 - Deep in the Bone
Post by: TordelBack on 24 July, 2019, 01:36:05 PM
Quote from: Geoff on 18 July, 2019, 06:08:37 PM
Good spot Norton, must be an homage - too similar to be coincidence!

I'm also wondering about the Petrol and Mackerel... must mean something.

Mackerel's suit looked like it had the markings of one but that's all I've got.

Aye, nice catch Norton!  I puzzled the names for a good while too, thinking 'Petrol' might be a play on (Vin) Diesel (maybe a Fast & Furious heist ref?), or even just Gas, but I don't see the connection, and I can't make anything like a pair with Mackerel (Tulingan? Herring?).  Both are 'oily', I suppose...? Nah, not happening.
Title: Re: Prog 2140 - Deep in the Bone
Post by: Dandontdare on 24 July, 2019, 02:00:59 PM
well Petrels eat mackerel, but I doubt there's anything in that....