Silo and Brigand Doom and Dave D'Antiques

[Tweak72]

And I feel that these last few posts have rather proved my point.

Don't slag off Mark Miller for doing something all writers do. Even Alan Moore. Just because you don't like him.

And TBH some of the early tooth stuff Moore did this kinda stuff with was not that slickly done or at least as clumsily done as some parts of Millers Silo , which is generally agreed it seems, as one of his better works, as they where both pretty young writers at the time.

Now, if you want to slag Miller off for being a self serving egocentric opportunist who uses what ever long running comic he is working on at the moment to further himself and his ego to the next 'big thing' via interviews with a 'scorched earth' mentality for what ever he was working on and just because you don't like him, then I have absolutely no objections at all.

Oh and whilst we are giving him the kicking for the reason he deserves you may want to read the DC Elseworlds Book Red Son. It's annoyingly good.

[Dandontdare]

you may want to read the DC Elseworlds Book Red Son. It's annoyingly good.

It's bloody marvelous is what it is! Until I found this forum, I had no idea there was such anti-millar feeling out there. Don't get it myself, there has been a great deal more heaps of doodoo in the prog over the years than Mr M's efforts!
*cough*greysuit*cough*

[Leigh S]

And I feel that these last few posts have rather proved my point.

Don't slag off Mark Miller for doing something all writers do. Even Alan Moore. Just because you don't like him.

But we dont like him cos he's rubbish at ripping stuff off! Basically, if you can bring something new to it, then go ahead - if all you can do is parrot a famous scene in your own work irrespective of the sense of it (were there fishtanks in the nuclear bunker?  and type writers?) then don't.  It's not that you can't borrow themes or even core ideas - its snatching a complete scenario and pasting it into your own.  Its a bit like cutting and pasting a Dredd strip out of old McMahon images, or drawing in a heavily influenced style.

[satchmo]

I like his run on The Authority an awful lot, it was that, Planetary and ABC that got me back into comics after a while out.

[Tweak72]

The Authority was not so good, The Jenny Sparks thing was OK but after that was MEH! Like I said Red Son was so good I didn't think It was Mark Miller till I rechecked the cover. This is so good I almost forgave him for Dig Dave! The Ultimates was also awesome. Finally all the attempted "witty banter" and just slightly this side of wrong happenings he had failed at in 2000ad and The Authority worked. Really well! Add this to his other Ultimate line stuff INCLUDING starting off Marvel Zombies in Ultimate FF and I am starting to think the whole 2000ad thing was just down to just being an inexperienced writer.

Then I read the end of Civil War.

What a W@nker! What a compete GIT! What was he playing at?? [spoiler]Why the FCUK did he get one of the main characters who was fighting the idea of hero registration and such TO TELEPORT EVERY FIGHTING HERO RIGHT IN TO THE MIDDLE OF MANHATTAN??![/spoiler] Right away Miller is again on the top of my hate list! A mouth full of turds is just almost too good a punishment for him. Almost!

So I am not defending him because I like him. I just don't think he did that much wrong with Silo.

[Colin YNWA]

Well since we've turned to an examination of Millar much as a lot of what he writes I think is pretty over rated (His FF run, well the first four issues I read, was terrible). Having just read the second 'reboot' Robohunter which I thought was truely terrible, as a Robo-hunter story at the very least I'll try to find some positives.

Has anybody read the 1985 mini from last year. That was truely superb I thought.

Oh and I loved Civil War as well.

[Tweak72]

Oh and I loved Civil War as well.

For the most part it was pretty awesome. So much so that I was even expecting a brilliant twist at the end or some Ellis-esk ending but [spoiler]having Cloak dump a shed load of fighting, Super Powered idiots in to the middle of New York at rush hour was such a daft thing to do[/spoiler] and was the biggest Shark jump in comics in recent years. Not even recent issues of Tarot have matched it.

But then DC and Marvel have wasted so many good stories and characters in sacrifice to the Cross Over God in the last few years (Green Arrow for a start). And with all these cross over after cross over heaps of crap that I barley read ether of them any more [spoiler]Batman's dead? who cares?[/spoiler]. mostly its publishers like Dark Horse, IDW that keep my attention.
But I read now that Image are doing a massive cross over thing which gives me the heebie jeebies. Even if it is going to be done by Robert Kirkman.

 

[TordelBack]

...was the biggest Shark jump in comics in recent years. Not even recent issues of Tarot have matched it.

I thought Tarot was about a team of professional Shark Jumpers, and set in a carnivorous fish/water activity theme park, with occasional guest appearances from the Fonz?  So it doesn't really count.

[Grae the puppetmaker]

Oh and I loved Civil War as well.

I've not actually read Civil War, but I refuse to believe that the reality could be better than Mightygodking's rewrite.

//http://mightygodking.com/index.php/i-dont-need-your-civil-war/

[Emperor]

I appear to have a Silo-shaped hole in my memory, so this seems like a good opportunity to brush the dust off and have a reread.

I can save you the bother if you like.  You've seen The Shining?  You've seen Die Hard?  Grab a couple of complete scenes from each and relocate them to a nuclear missile silo.  Bingo, you've just remembered Silo. Good art though.

Well I finally got motivated (and the description was pretty de-motivating) and read the story and... dear oh dear.

I thought there were some interesting ideas - a missile silo sealed for 24 hours is a good setting and throwing in Edward Bulwer-Lytton was an interesting idea but seemed a bit clunky (especially as he died quietly in Torquay, as far as I'm aware) and the whole sub-plot (about HG Wells and the Fabian Society, told in great lumpen chunks of exposition) seems like a good idea for a story - just not this story.

And the Die Hard and Shining bits? There is a difference between reworking ideas and themes that have appeared elsewhere or just referencing them with a nod and a wink to the audience and just welding chunks of other stories onto your own. It is just lazy plotting and was completely unnecessary - he could have come up with a different way of doing this which would have worked better. It wouldn't have been so bad if it had been buried in a tonne of other good ideas but really that is pretty much it.

The whole comes across as a grab bag of random ideas with some nicked goodies thrown in to flesh it out, capped off with a stupid ending (he could have just sat there and waited to be relieved, the ghost couldn't have made him turn the launch key. Hell he could have had a snooze until the time was up).

All that said it was his first series at 2000 AD and he did improve (although you can take that whatever way you like), but I'd be surprised if anyone could sneak that into the current comic.

Nice art though.

[TordelBack]

...but I'd be surprised if anyone could sneak that into the current comic.

Anyone who wasn't called Pat Mills, you mean!  

[Colin YNWA]

Just posted this over at 'Prog Slog' and thought I'd add it here as well

I've always enjoyed Brigand Doom. While I know you [Paul Rainey auther of The Prog Slog] have issues with some of Alan McKenzie's work I quite like him. 'Quite' being the operative work. He's not brillant but he's a good solid writer and I admire the fact that he tried numerous different things in 2000ad, Summer Magic being a good example which added to the variety in the comic. I'm particularly impressed by this as during his period writing there really was a trend in 2000ad and other comics to rely on shocking violence, apparent 'grit' and high style over story (yes Millar I'm looking at you) and this led to a lot of charmless stories. McKenzie often seemed to side step that and many of his stories had charm. I say often cos yeah I've read 'Mean Arena' recently!

[Mike Gloady]

I have to say, and this from an avowed Millar-phobic, Silo had the beginnings of a good story.  Just more work at concealing it's origins and stretching it beyond them and we'd be talking about a classic.  1 out of 10 for effort, 4 out of 10 for potential. 

[The Enigmatic Dr X]

Umm, any idea what happened to Dave D'Antiques?

[Jim_Campbell]

Umm, any idea what happened to Dave D'Antiques?

Merged with Acorn Antiques during the recession/

Cheers!

Jim