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Spoilers => Prog => Topic started by: Leigh S on 08 October, 2016, 08:45:57 AM

Title: Prog 2002: Retaliatory Strike!
Post by: Leigh S on 08 October, 2016, 08:45:57 AM
Early prog!

Cover - Very nice Jim Murray cover - I was never as big a fan of his art as most (beautiful paints, but overly cartoony popping eyes,in the same way Jason Brashill), but this plays to his strengths and is dare I say it a welcome return


DREDD:  As is Trevor Hairsine, this tie with Dylan Teague and looking a bit more like the Hairsine we know and love - good to see it isnt all revenge, but no big twist with the Judge in hiding

FLESH: Story starts, but really, no new story here.  The art is the usual fristrating mix of "how did he do that?" and "Why did he doe that?"

ROGUE:  Burning General is quite GFD in going for spectacle over sense but needs more talking hats.

SAVAGE:  A lot more story than FLESH, but not sure of Savage's jukebox - I mean, I love Tom Waits and PJ Harvey, but would salt of the earth Bill?  War has changed him!

COUNTERFEIT:  Very Milligan set of ideas make this ideal for Rufus - always love a prog that spills out onto the back page!

Title: Re: Prog 2002: Retaliatory Strike!
Post by: Eamonn Clarke on 08 October, 2016, 09:10:40 AM
(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r182/Caliban_photos/f95a5820f4b505285241ffaeb87e466b_zpsuj2inya7.jpg)
Jim Murray
Title: Re: Prog 2002: Retaliatory Strike!
Post by: moldovangerbil on 08 October, 2016, 09:28:43 AM
Progless in Leicestershire.  Monday seems to be the new Saturday....
Title: Re: Prog 2002: Retaliatory Strike!
Post by: Geoff on 08 October, 2016, 11:15:54 AM
Early Prog here too, and able to read it fresh from the doormat! (A rare Saturday treat)

Absolutely love the cover. At the time, I was no great fan of the Murray/ Brashill style either. But this is a great fully painted action packed joy that leads you straight into the Dredd story..

Which is really working for me, a highly risky mission but, as most suspected, with broader aims than simple revenge. I fear a certain female judge may be too young looking and pretty for some readers however...

Flesh puzzles me, why its in the Prog and why it's illustrated like that mainly. 

The actual plot of Rogue and Savage puzzle me, but that's probably just my bad memory of what's gone before and general dulling of my wits.

Counterfeit Girl is colourful enjoyable madness (rather too many RUF!s peppered around). I also love a Prog that breaks out onto the back page.
Title: Re: Prog 2002: Retaliatory Strike!
Post by: user2000 on 08 October, 2016, 11:34:58 AM
IT'S A MIRACLE!

First prog I've had on a Saturday for many moons, long may it continue - now to catch up on Prog 2001 that only arrived on Thursday.
Title: Re: Prog 2002: Retaliatory Strike!
Post by: blixab on 08 October, 2016, 11:54:22 AM
I'm actually liking Hunted - a new take on Rogue, well at least for the first couple of progs.

Elsewhere, Flesh - not to my taste and would rather it didn't keep coming back.

Elsewhere, they are obviously delighted with the success of Prog 2000 and a nice catchy song using the tune of Pop Musik by M - I tend to chuckle each week when I read this section first (The blurb below the Cover Art and publishing description)
Title: Re: Prog 2002: Retaliatory Strike!
Post by: Mattofthespurs on 08 October, 2016, 12:05:54 PM
Woke up to have found it already on my doormat.
Looking forward to reading it after lunch (when it will be nice and quiet).
Title: Re: Prog 2002: Retaliatory Strike!
Post by: jannerboyuk on 08 October, 2016, 12:52:23 PM
Woot sat prog!

Lovely cover, dredd is dredd, the traitor general is very enjoyable, the fluff stroy at the end is nice and fluffy

Flesh and savage are finny for me. The original runs were before my time and i missed the comebacks so never sure about the backstory. Decided to just enjoy it without worrying about that and apart from mills having to tell us capitalism is bad ( you know its clunky when a dyed in the wool lefty like me finds it annoying) im enjoying it

Overall really decent prog raised up by a great cover
Title: Re: Prog 2002: Retaliatory Strike!
Post by: Frank on 08 October, 2016, 02:23:30 PM
Quote from: Leigh S on 08 October, 2016, 08:45:57 AM
... not sure of Savage's jukebox - I mean, I love Tom Waits and PJ Harvey, but would salt of the earth Bill?

Harvey and Waits make the kind of music only folk who buy the Sunday papers think is any good in your reality, Earthlet, but not in Savage's alternate 2016.

The Volg occupiers forced Polly Harvey to record a series of anodyne, Adele-style ballads about her exes, as a kind of soporific to subdue the native population. Exactly the kind of thing HGV drivers of our own world think represents a bit of class.

Waits won Occupied Britain's Got Talent in 2008, which proves he's good, innit?

Splundig vur thrigg, you slag.


Title: Re: Prog 2002: Retaliatory Strike!
Post by: Leigh S on 08 October, 2016, 02:48:08 PM
Quote from: Frank on 08 October, 2016, 02:23:30 PM
Quote from: Leigh S on 08 October, 2016, 08:45:57 AM
... not sure of Savage's jukebox - I mean, I love Tom Waits and PJ Harvey, but would salt of the earth Bill?

Harvey and Waits make the kind of music only folk who buy the Sunday papers think is any good in your reality, Earthlet, but not in Savage's alternate 2016.

The Volg occupiers forced Polly Harvey to record a series of anodyne, Adele-style ballads about her exes, as a kind of soporific to subdue the native population. Exactly the kind of thing HGV drivers of our own world think represents a bit of class.

Waits won Occupied Britain's Got Talent in 2008, which proves he's good, innit?

Splundig vur thrigg, you slag.

:lol:

Honestly, if it takes a Volgan invasion to find a pub that plays Waits and Harvey, I for one welcome our stereotypical Communist Overlords.
Title: Re: Prog 2002: Retaliatory Strike!
Post by: Richard on 08 October, 2016, 05:37:27 PM
I like that Dredd's mission turned out to be about more than it appeared to be last week. Looking forward to finding out what the plan is.
Title: Re: Prog 2002: Retaliatory Strike!
Post by: Colin YNWA on 08 October, 2016, 07:53:26 PM
See I hoped this would happen. Last week was a bit of a slow start but as we start to get into things just about everything improved. The exception for me was Savage which I felt handled the 'villians' (I assume) introduction a bit clumsily and the Savage bit was a little forced again. Still good fun and

Quote from: Leigh S on 08 October, 2016, 08:45:57 AM
... not sure of Savage's jukebox - I mean, I love Tom Waits and PJ Harvey, but would salt of the earth Bill?  War has changed him!

Arh but don't forget its not Bill's bar and taste its his cover's ... who clearly has the same taste in music as me!

Quote from: Leigh S on 08 October, 2016, 08:45:57 AM
FLESH: ... The art is the usual fristrating mix of "how did he do that?" and "Why did he doe that?"

This is so, so true, bits great and bits grate. Those shelves at the beginning, that took me some time! The lack of a panel boarder in the bottom half of the splash page, yuck. The Carver Vs Dino fight was sublime. Over all nice to have the story start, if a little superficially.

Hunted I defo enjoyed more than last week but its still got a big problem. I don't think I'm getting anything new out of the Traitor General than I have in the past and if we're going to have a series about the chap he needs to be more than the cardboard cut out villian of the original series. Still plenty of time to get there.

Counterfeit Girl just doesn't let up. Its pace is only matched by its pulsating colours. Will the themes are familiar the delivery is gloriously flash and fresh from Milligan and perfectly matched with the art. In so many Progs this would be thrill of the week easy.

However this week we have a Dredd I was already enjoying remove my main concern with a nice reveal about the real mission and a gloriously action packed episode. While the action entertained, the reveals engaged it was the interaction with [spoiler]Seinfeld[/spoiler] that delighted the most. Even in this predictment, in this tortured position Williams managed to capture the character's arrogant ignorance quite supremely. Fantastic episode.

So yeah this week the Prog was as thrilling as I'd hoped last weeks would have been. Top stuff.
Title: Re: Prog 2002: Retaliatory Strike!
Post by: Frank on 08 October, 2016, 08:21:11 PM
Quote from: Colin YNWA on 08 October, 2016, 07:53:26 PM
it was the interaction with [spoiler]Seinfeld[/spoiler] that delighted the most

"I'm master of my domain, Joey!"


Title: Re: Prog 2002: Retaliatory Strike!
Post by: Eamonn Clarke on 08 October, 2016, 09:34:10 PM
Quote from: Leigh S on 08 October, 2016, 08:45:57 AM

COUNTERFEIT:  Very Milligan set of ideas make this ideal for Rufus - always love a prog that spills out onto the back page!

Love it too.
When was the last time we had a story go to the back cover?
Title: Re: Prog 2002: Retaliatory Strike!
Post by: Trent on 09 October, 2016, 10:38:57 AM
Colin is spot on re Flesh, a frustrating blend of sublime and murkily incomprehensible.
It's the great stuff that aggravates most in some ways because you can see what Langley is capable of but there are always several bum notes in an episode. If he could maintain his potential standard then his art would be universally revered. As it is, there are just too many jarring, unclear or photographic images to say that.
Enjoying Dredd but what I initially hoped might be something substantial looks like it will be over before it's begun. The double edged sword that is the nature of the distilled storytelling of Dredd; when you get a story you really like it finishes before you want. Wouldn't change it for the world though, no 22 pages of Bendis navel gazing here. Mandroid is the only decompressed Dredd story that comes to mind that really worked but then that's Wagner for you.
Title: Re: Prog 2002: Retaliatory Strike!
Post by: JUDGE BURNS on 09 October, 2016, 08:12:50 PM
My subs copy actually arrived on a Saturday !!!!!   My prog 2001 only arrived on Thursday, so 2 progs to read on a Saturday  :-)

The cover is one of my favourites for the year.
Title: Re: Prog 2002: Retaliatory Strike!
Post by: Jacqusie on 10 October, 2016, 02:20:15 AM
Quote from: JUDGE BURNS on 09 October, 2016, 08:12:50 PM

The cover is one of my favourites for the year.


Me too, really pleased to see Jim Murray back and no spoilers out there beforehand to make a nice surprise, great stuff indeed (although I'm not sure what's going on with his eagle!)

The back story coverage was brilliant too, simple things like this warms the cockles of an old fanboy...

...the Williams/Hairsine/Teague Dredd team is pretty splendid too!  :thumbsup:

Title: Re: Prog 2002: Retaliatory Strike!
Post by: CalHab on 10 October, 2016, 10:57:37 AM
I'm really enjoying Counterfeit Girl. It's got an appealing mix of sci-fi tropes and off-the-wall inventiveness. Rufus Dayglo's work is brilliant, as always.
Title: Re: Prog 2002: Retaliatory Strike!
Post by: Magnetica on 10 October, 2016, 08:20:15 PM
Very good Prog this week. Can't really choose which is best as they are all good.

Pity Barry Kitson is not contributing to the art this week on Dredd. (I assume he was inking Trevor Harirsine's pencils last week.). Would be great to see him back in the Prog on a more regular basis.

Flesh - so far so good. Not feeling lost yet and getting on agreeably with Langley's art. Apart from one bit I didn't understand. On page 5, the dinosaur attacking Sunday has a completely different looking jaw on the last panel to the others. Or is that meant to be another dinosaur (which doesn't make sense)???

Hunted - good, but probably my least favourite strip in a strong line up.

Savage. Just great. Is it me or has Patrick Goddard changed his style a bit - this just looks great. Packs in a lot into its 6 pages. See Pat can get on with it when he wants to!

Counterfeit Girl - yes nice twist. Having been not too sure about this after the first episode it is shaping up nicely and seems to now be set to do something original.

Minor gripe - the synopses in the Nerve Centre are to bring new readers up to speed. So why does what has been written for Savage and Conterfeit Girl contain events that only happen in this week's episodes?  Ok they are only minor spoilers but I would prefer it if there weren't any spoilers at all.
Title: Re: Prog 2002: Retaliatory Strike!
Post by: sheridan on 10 October, 2016, 08:58:41 PM
Quote from: Eamonn Clarke on 08 October, 2016, 09:34:10 PM
Quote from: Leigh S on 08 October, 2016, 08:45:57 AM

COUNTERFEIT:  Very Milligan set of ideas make this ideal for Rufus - always love a prog that spills out onto the back page!

Love it too.
When was the last time we had a story go to the back cover?
I can't actually think of one since the Cam Kennedy Traitor General / Bland and Brass story (I want to say Eye of the Traitor but not too sure).

This is as opposed to Sooner or Later which spent all its one-page episodes on the cover.
Title: Re: Prog 2002: Retaliatory Strike!
Post by: sheridan on 10 October, 2016, 09:00:23 PM
Quote from: Colin YNWA on 08 October, 2016, 07:53:26 PM
Quote from: Leigh S on 08 October, 2016, 08:45:57 AM
... not sure of Savage's jukebox - I mean, I love Tom Waits and PJ Harvey, but would salt of the earth Bill?  War has changed him!

Arh but don't forget its not Bill's bar and taste its his cover's ... who clearly has the same taste in music as me!

Berlin has all the best bars!
Title: Re: Prog 2002: Retaliatory Strike!
Post by: Taryn Tailz on 11 October, 2016, 01:32:51 AM
Quote from: sheridan on 10 October, 2016, 08:58:41 PM
Quote from: Eamonn Clarke on 08 October, 2016, 09:34:10 PM
Quote from: Leigh S on 08 October, 2016, 08:45:57 AM

COUNTERFEIT:  Very Milligan set of ideas make this ideal for Rufus - always love a prog that spills out onto the back page!

Love it too.
When was the last time we had a story go to the back cover?
I can't actually think of one since the Cam Kennedy Traitor General / Bland and Brass story (I want to say Eye of the Traitor but not too sure).

This is as opposed to Sooner or Later which spent all its one-page episodes on the cover.

Pretty sure there's been one much more recently than that. I seem to recall one of the last Nikolai Dante stories went to the back cover...so sometime around 2013?
Title: Re: Prog 2002: Retaliatory Strike!
Post by: Echidna on 11 October, 2016, 01:02:54 PM
Quote from: Taryn Tailz on 11 October, 2016, 01:32:51 AM
Quote from: sheridan on 10 October, 2016, 08:58:41 PM
Quote from: Eamonn Clarke on 08 October, 2016, 09:34:10 PM
Quote from: Leigh S on 08 October, 2016, 08:45:57 AM
COUNTERFEIT:  Very Milligan set of ideas make this ideal for Rufus - always love a prog that spills out onto the back page!
When was the last time we had a story go to the back cover?
I can't actually think of one since the Cam Kennedy Traitor General / Bland and Brass story (I want to say Eye of the Traitor but not too sure).
Pretty sure there's been one much more recently than that. I seem to recall one of the last Nikolai Dante stories went to the back cover...so sometime around 2013?

That must be the last time as I don't remember seeing a story on the back page since Prog 2014* when I jumped on board the Thrill Train. No ads this week either, just wall-to-wall comics - well worth the extra ten pence!

Quote from: Jacqusie on 10 October, 2016, 02:20:15 AM
really pleased to see Jim Murray back and no spoilers out there beforehand to make a nice surprise, great stuff indeed (although I'm not sure what's going on with his eagle!)

I'm not familiar with Murray (due to my years spent under a rock) but this reminds me of Bisley and Kev Walker's best. I love the crazy-paving shoulder eagle despite (or because of) the fact that it wouldn't really work as interior art.

Solid Dredd, although the reveal of Anderson was no great surprise - to be fair, the subterfuge was more for the Sovs than the reader - and, as Geoff suggests, she's looking somewhat younger and more waiflike than her last appearance in the prog.

Elsewhere there's plenty of old-school baddassery on display, from the Traitor General taking dudes out while ON FIRE, Claw Carver icing a quilled raptor (kudos to Langley for aknowledging current scientific consensus where Jurassic World chickened out) and Savage pumping his boomstick. With Counterfeit Girl shaping up nicely too I'm feeling very optimistic about the next few weeks.

* That's the Prog 2014 published in December 2013, not the one coming in January 2017. So confusing...
Title: Re: Prog 2002: Retaliatory Strike!
Post by: dweezil2 on 11 October, 2016, 02:06:37 PM
Quote from: Echidna on 11 October, 2016, 01:02:54 PM
Quote from: Taryn Tailz on 11 October, 2016, 01:32:51 AM
Quote from: sheridan on 10 October, 2016, 08:58:41 PM
Quote from: Eamonn Clarke on 08 October, 2016, 09:34:10 PM
Quote from: Leigh S on 08 October, 2016, 08:45:57 AM
COUNTERFEIT:  Very Milligan set of ideas make this ideal for Rufus - always love a prog that spills out onto the back page!
When was the last time we had a story go to the back cover?
I can't actually think of one since the Cam Kennedy Traitor General / Bland and Brass story (I want to say Eye of the Traitor but not too sure).
Pretty sure there's been one much more recently than that. I seem to recall one of the last Nikolai Dante stories went to the back cover...so sometime around 2013?

That must be the last time as I don't remember seeing a story on the back page since Prog 2014* when I jumped on board the Thrill Train. No ads this week either, just wall-to-wall comics - well worth the extra ten pence!

Quote from: Jacqusie on 10 October, 2016, 02:20:15 AM
really pleased to see Jim Murray back and no spoilers out there beforehand to make a nice surprise, great stuff indeed (although I'm not sure what's going on with his eagle!)

I'm not familiar with Murray (due to my years spent under a rock) but this reminds me of Bisley and Kev Walker's best. I love the crazy-paving shoulder eagle despite (or because of) the fact that it wouldn't really work as interior art.



Murray did some fantastic work on the Batman/Judge Dredd crossover, of which this is one of my favourite panels:

(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i128/mubhceeb/image_46.jpeg) (http://s71.photobucket.com/user/mubhceeb/media/image_46.jpeg.html)

Title: Re: Prog 2002: Retaliatory Strike!
Post by: dweezil2 on 11 October, 2016, 02:08:04 PM
I should add, that's the crossover 'Die Laughing'.
Title: Re: Prog 2002: Retaliatory Strike!
Post by: James Stacey on 11 October, 2016, 02:27:57 PM
He also did all the artwork shown in show (along with Brashill) for Spaced. Which is pretty cool
Title: Re: Prog 2002: Retaliatory Strike!
Post by: Banners on 11 October, 2016, 03:42:56 PM
Funny to think that the novelty of a strip going onto the back page was done so we could all enjoy the majesty of a page featuring six near-identical images of empty shelves.
Title: Re: Prog 2002: Retaliatory Strike!
Post by: scrotnig on 11 October, 2016, 03:57:03 PM
I do love strips on the back page. No idea why though!

I noticed the lack of adverts. And whilst this is great from a reader perspective,mi really hope it's not because there are no "takers" for advertising slots. I can't think of any other business reason why it'd be ad-free like that. As nice as an ad-free prof is, I'd rather they sell a few ads for a decent bit of income.
Title: Re: Prog 2002: Retaliatory Strike!
Post by: sheridan on 11 October, 2016, 05:33:55 PM
Quote from: scrotnig on 11 October, 2016, 03:57:03 PM
I do love strips on the back page. No idea why though!

I noticed the lack of adverts. And whilst this is great from a reader perspective,mi really hope it's not because there are no "takers" for advertising slots. I can't think of any other business reason why it'd be ad-free like that. As nice as an ad-free prof is, I'd rather they sell a few ads for a decent bit of income.


I'm not sure that ads really generate that much income - long gone are the days when 2000AD featured adverts for things which weren't 2000ad-related (no weetabixes lately).
Title: Re: Prog 2002: Retaliatory Strike!
Post by: Frank on 11 October, 2016, 06:37:40 PM
Quote from: sheridan on 11 October, 2016, 05:33:55 PM
Quote from: scrotnig on 11 October, 2016, 03:57:03 PM
As nice as an ad-free prof is, I'd rather they sell a few ads for a decent bit of income.

I'm not sure that ads really generate that much income

Thanks to social media (http://www.journalism.org/2016/06/15/newspapers-fact-sheet/), newspapers and magazines with circulations 5-10 times greater than 2000ad have seen ad revenue plummet.

That said, 2000ad is seen by more eyeballs than most TV shows outside peak viewing times. The problem might be us: Thrillpower Overload hilariously describes a costly marketing report categorising Squaxx as The Undefinables*.

The people who buy advertising space like to know exactly who will be seeing their wares.


* As this forum demonstrates, we're unmarried software engineers, litter pickers, and librarians, who divide our time between cruising the Indian ocean in our yachts with the wife and kids and shivering in rented sheds on sodden caravan sites. We watch a lot of sci-fi and fantasy TV shows/movies, but we think they're rubbish
Title: Re: Prog 2002: Retaliatory Strike!
Post by: Steve Green on 11 October, 2016, 06:47:46 PM
Ads tend to be from within the Rebellion stable, their books, games or for licensed product.

I can't remember the last time I saw an ad that was outside that group.
Title: Re: Prog 2002: Retaliatory Strike!
Post by: Frank on 11 October, 2016, 07:33:54 PM
.
You can plot the correlation between declining readership and the disappearance of ads. I started buying in 1987, when the back page regularly saw corporate food (http://i.imgur.com/7ZOnc6a.png) and electronics (http://i.imgur.com/sjf9SU7.jpg) giants targeting the 100-120,000 kids who bought the comic.

By the start of the nineties, readership had plunged to 70,000 (due in part to a change of distributor) and the only ads you would see were interior page plugs for local comic shops or the occasional hopeful punt by the World Wildlife Fund.

By 1995 (50,000 readers and dropping), Tharg has sunk so low that the back page of the prog was the only time I have ever heard mention of the (presumably terrible) straight to video Sean Young vehicle Dr Jekyll and Ms Hyde (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0112895/combined).


Title: Re: Prog 2002: Retaliatory Strike!
Post by: Steve Green on 11 October, 2016, 07:55:41 PM
You've also got other stuff like the Urban Strike strip, and tie-ins like A life less ordinary and Shaun of the Dead.
Title: Re: Prog 2002: Retaliatory Strike!
Post by: Frank on 11 October, 2016, 08:52:11 PM

Maybe Dredd could occasionally mention how much he enjoys the smooth, clean taste of Marlboro lites, or wear sponsorship, like other superheroes:

(http://l7.alamy.com/zooms/14ab5fc4733b4a1f9551b6f7bcd66d1e/greg-kinnear-mystery-men-1999-bpgjfe.jpg)
Title: Re: Prog 2002: Retaliatory Strike!
Post by: Timothy on 12 October, 2016, 01:11:00 PM
It looks like Anderson has lost her spiffy new shoulder badge thing, but Gerhart has gained one. Still no idea what they signify.
Title: Re: Prog 2002: Retaliatory Strike!
Post by: I, Cosh on 12 October, 2016, 01:29:56 PM
Quote from: Taryn Tailz on 11 October, 2016, 01:32:51 AM
Quote from: sheridan on 10 October, 2016, 08:58:41 PM
Quote from: Eamonn Clarke on 08 October, 2016, 09:34:10 PM
Quote from: Leigh S on 08 October, 2016, 08:45:57 AM
COUNTERFEIT:  Very Milligan set of ideas make this ideal for Rufus - always love a prog that spills out onto the back page!
Love it too. When was the last time we had a story go to the back cover?
I can't actually think of one since the Cam Kennedy Traitor General / Bland and Brass story (I want to say Eye of the Traitor but not too sure).
...I seem to recall one of the last Nikolai Dante stories went to the back cover...so sometime around 2013?
The Dante Gambit in Prog 1776 (http://forums.2000adonline.com/index.php?topic=35683.0).

It was pretty popular around then, as the one before that was the end of the first chunk of Day of Chaos, Prog 1749 and before that it was Dante again in 1731.

Quote from: Banners on 11 October, 2016, 03:42:56 PM
Funny to think that the novelty of a strip going onto the back page was done so we could all enjoy the majesty of a page featuring six near-identical images of empty shelves.
HA! Clint has a modelling agency to feed.

Quote from: Steve Green on 11 October, 2016, 06:47:46 PM
Ads tend to be from within the Rebellion stable, their books, games or for licensed product.

I can't remember the last time I saw an ad that was outside that group.
You get the odd one for Free Comic Day or the bigger cons but that's about it.
Title: Re: Prog 2002: Retaliatory Strike!
Post by: Hawkmumbler on 12 October, 2016, 02:07:48 PM
Behind a gorgeous cover we get an excellent Dredd that hurls itself towards some kind of finale for the Williams time line. I hope this isn't him clearing the deck for good.

Flesh is ugly as fuck to look at and the dialogue is cringey as all heck. And as pretty as Savage is it's plot switch for Bill is leaving me cold.

Both Counterfeit Girl and Hunted however are really top thrill material, cracking stuff.
Title: Re: Prog 2002: Retaliatory Strike!
Post by: Frank on 12 October, 2016, 02:10:22 PM
Quote from: Timothy on 12 October, 2016, 01:11:00 PM
Anderson has lost her spiffy new shoulder badge thing, but Gerhart has gained one. Still no idea what they signify.

WHAT DOES IT MEAN
AND WHEN WILL
THIS MADNESS END?!!!



Title: Re: Prog 2002: Retaliatory Strike!
Post by: Timothy on 12 October, 2016, 03:16:46 PM
Well I'm not sure I'd put it that strongly. Just mildly curious.
Title: Re: Prog 2002: Retaliatory Strike!
Post by: Trout on 12 October, 2016, 04:43:55 PM
I'm loving that Traitor General story. He has motivation! Wow! My favourite thing in the prog.

Also Savage keeps my attention, partly because I like this sort of b&w line art, and partly because, like the soundtrack, it's sinister.

I was a bit puzzled by the Dredd story (why does a cloak make a uniformed judge undercover, when they all wear outfits designed to anonymise them?) but I'm going with the flow. General applause for keeping these plot threads running through several stories.

- Trout
Title: Re: Prog 2002: Retaliatory Strike!
Post by: Trout on 12 October, 2016, 04:46:02 PM
(And ads only pay off when you sell them in sufficient volume to meet the cost of sales staff, plus a profit. Otherwise, just rely on other revenue.)
Title: Re: Prog 2002: Retaliatory Strike!
Post by: Frank on 12 October, 2016, 06:37:11 PM
Quote from: Trout on 12 October, 2016, 04:46:02 PM
(And ads only pay off when you sell them in sufficient volume to meet the cost of sales staff, plus a profit. Otherwise, just rely on other revenue.)

... and the wages of those sales staff used to be shared across all IPC titles, with the same people selling real estate in Woman's Drudgery, Top Caravan, and ZX-81 Power!

I wasn't kidding about the shield eagle thing, Timothy - I want to know what Tharg's up to. When Dyer did it I wrote it off as artistic eccentricity, but now Hairsine's doing it, it's clearly an editorial mandate.

I suppose it's been a while since anyone made a significant change to Dredd's uniform, but Tharg seemed content to let that develop organically. Will Carlos treat this differently to editorial tinkering with the gun and the bike?

In a weird reversal of normal circumstances, I'm quite enjoying everything and y'all seem unnecessarily sniffy. Page 1 of Flesh was visually dull, but you'd have to wilfully dull yourself not to get a chuckle out of Spaghetti Western Bolognese. Art's on the right side of Photocollage.

PJ Holden's Hunted art is the opposite of Deirdre's Photo Case Book, with either him or Len O'Grady* making excellent use of the digital Letratone. There's a visual variety and level of invention here that was absent in Lion's Den, with TG a constant treat.

Milligan fudges how taking on someone else's identity means contracting non-genetic disease, but there's that great line about skidmarks of discarded personas and a sweaty sock virus that inverts nurse Pauline Cafferkey's case of malignant Katie Hopkins (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-32945786).

Moaning you've lost track of the story is the reflex response to Savage round here, but what else do you need to know to enjoy this story except Bill likes blowing away Volgs with his shotgun? Interesting to see Yulia Tymoshenko (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yulia_Tymoshenko)'s thrown her lot in with the Volgan invader.


* Maybe O'Grady's just a better fit for Holden's aesthetic than the otherwise excellent Adam Brown
Title: Re: Prog 2002: Retaliatory Strike!
Post by: TordelBack on 12 October, 2016, 09:04:49 PM
Not really doing it for me this week, but it cheered me through a midweek slump all the same.

Cover: Bright, inviting.

Dredd: So at first i thought we missed a chance for Dredd to remind Sinfield that he would never abandon a judge, regardless of who it was. Then I read on, and realised that that would have been highly inappropriate given the actual nature of the mission. Really lovely art, and I bet the Sovs were surprised that one (and possibly two) Apocalypse Squad veteran hasn't acquire a single wrinkle in 35 years...

Flesh: Moving swiftly on.

Hunted: Terrific art choices from PJ mean this feels more like classic Rogue than Jaegir, which is nice. But I'm not really that interested in the TG himself yet.

Savage: bogged down in too many cool lyrics from cool uncle Pat, even if love all the sources.

Counterfeit Girl: looks really great, but feels very dated somehow... the danger of using 'contemporary' jargon to represent future tech.  And after only three episodes feels a bit repetitive?

Title: Re: Prog 2002: Retaliatory Strike!
Post by: James Stacey on 13 October, 2016, 09:25:03 AM
<pedant>Bit confused as to why Bill had to pick up the shotgun carts from the floor. Doesn't he use a double barrel which wouldn't automatically eject them unless he chose to stand there and reload.
Title: Re: Prog 2002: Retaliatory Strike!
Post by: Alien Goodness on 13 October, 2016, 10:03:56 AM
Loved the Jim Murray cover. Nice composition and use of colours.

And am I the only one who likes Clint Langley's black & white artwork for Flesh? In fact I like it better than some of his colour work.

Also enjoying Patrick Goddard's black & white artwork for Savage.

My favourite story this week is Dredd. My thrill-circuits are buzzing - why are they on such a high risk mission? Not convinced by the explanation offered so far in this story...
Title: Re: Prog 2002: Retaliatory Strike!
Post by: Alien Goodness on 13 October, 2016, 10:51:21 AM
Just realised that the Dredd story reminds me a little of 'Gulag', a Dredd story from 2004 where he selects a special hit squad to go into Sov territory and attack a prison...
Title: Re: Prog 2002: Retaliatory Strike!
Post by: TordelBack on 13 October, 2016, 11:14:41 AM
Quote from: Alien Goodness on 13 October, 2016, 10:51:21 AM
Just realised that the Dredd story reminds me a little of 'Gulag', a Dredd story from 2004 where he selects a special hit squad to go into Sov territory and attack a prison...

And of course the story follows on from events in Enceladus, itself a people-transformed-into-monsters-attack-the-city-until-the-controlling-intelligence-is-destroyed plot of rather ancient Dreddworld pedigree, and in its turn Enceladus is a follow-on from inmates-take-over-Titan, which is hardly new ground for Dredd either...  However, the long-running sequence as a whole, with its focus on characters (Dredd, Gerhart, Nixon, Sinfield) clever imagery and surprising asides, is very much its own original thing.

As to Gerhart's eagle, the SJS are the originators of the shield-on-eagle look, albeit in a slightly different configuration...

(http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130317211356/judgedredd/images/1/13/Tumblr_lutit59O1k1qi8laso1_500.jpg)



Title: Re: Prog 2002: Retaliatory Strike!
Post by: TordelBack on 13 October, 2016, 11:17:50 AM
Closer:

(http://static5.comicvine.com/uploads/square_medium/1/18154/3600346-sjs.jpg)
Title: Re: Prog 2002: Retaliatory Strike!
Post by: sheridan on 13 October, 2016, 11:23:44 AM
Quote from: Alien Goodness on 13 October, 2016, 10:03:56 AM
And am I the only one who likes Clint Langley's black & white artwork for Flesh? In fact I like it better than some of his colour work.

You're not the only one - I'm liking the black and white stylings also.
Quote
My favourite story this week is Dredd. My thrill-circuits are buzzing - why are they on such a high risk mission? Not convinced by the explanation offered so far in this story...

Former chief judge under heavy interrogation?  Convincing enough for me!
Title: Re: Prog 2002: Retaliatory Strike!
Post by: Tiplodocus on 13 October, 2016, 12:52:49 PM
I right enjoyed all of that.

Flesh was the least of a great, diverse (in art, colour, letter and script) bunch but still kinda fun.

I thought Savage was placing the shells not retrieving them.

And Anderson is older and wrinkly but just projects a psychic image of her younger self into willing minds. She's doing some kind of inception trick so the East Meg judges think they have the launch codes but obviously get something badderer.
Title: Re: Prog 2002: Retaliatory Strike!
Post by: sheldipez on 13 October, 2016, 01:18:28 PM
Quote from: Tiplodocus on 13 October, 2016, 12:52:49 PM
And Anderson is older and wrinkly but just projects a psychic image of her younger self into willing minds. She's doing some kind of inception trick so the East Meg judges think they have the launch codes but obviously get something badderer.

Are Judge's not entitled to free face lifts/ replacements as part of the perks?  ;)
Title: Re: Prog 2002: Retaliatory Strike!
Post by: Starkers on 13 October, 2016, 01:22:10 PM
A good solid prog, enjoying Dredd but always do. Flesh I've kinda lost track of what's happening, same as with Savage. So Bill's now impersonating a German barman but still killing Volgs on the side? Unsure about Hunted, more classic era Nu Earth is always welcome, but not sure I want, or in fact need, the Traitor General fleshing out. What next, Sister Sledge the Early Years? (actually I'd read that). Counterfeit Girl continues well, seems a slight editorial oversight that just a few weeks after PJ Maybe's black bubble inner voice we have another one, but at least this one is explained. 
Title: Re: Prog 2002: Retaliatory Strike!
Post by: dweezil2 on 13 October, 2016, 01:38:19 PM
Quote from: Alien Goodness on 13 October, 2016, 10:51:21 AM
Just realised that the Dredd story reminds me a little of 'Gulag', a Dredd story from 2004 where he selects a special hit squad to go into Sov territory and attack a prison...

Quite topical too with the current tensions between Russia and the west!

With 2000AD's astute powers of prophecy as they are, if Trump ( 'Big Bad' Bob Booth) gets in, we really will know we're all fucked!  :o
Title: Re: Prog 2002: Retaliatory Strike!
Post by: James Stacey on 13 October, 2016, 02:51:34 PM
Quote from: Tiplodocus on 13 October, 2016, 12:52:49 PM
I thought Savage was placing the shells not retrieving them.
That would make more sense.
Title: Re: Prog 2002: Retaliatory Strike!
Post by: sheridan on 13 October, 2016, 06:03:24 PM
Quote from: sheldipez on 13 October, 2016, 01:18:28 PM
Quote from: Tiplodocus on 13 October, 2016, 12:52:49 PM
And Anderson is older and wrinkly but just projects a psychic image of her younger self into willing minds. She's doing some kind of inception trick so the East Meg judges think they have the launch codes but obviously get something badderer.

Are Judge's not entitled to free face lifts/ replacements as part of the perks?  ;)

It's been said that a rejuve job would affect her psychic powers, though I don't imagine a conventional (for our times) surgical facelift would have an affect.
Title: Re: Prog 2002: Retaliatory Strike!
Post by: Frank on 13 October, 2016, 07:19:32 PM
Quote from: sheridan on 13 October, 2016, 06:03:24 PM
Quote from: sheldipez on 13 October, 2016, 01:18:28 PM
Are Judge's not entitled to free face lifts/ replacements as part of the perks?  ;)

... a rejuve job would affect her psychic powers, though I don't imagine a conventional (for our times) surgical facelift would have an affect.

PJ Maybe* got through half a dozen face changes before resorting to Rimmel. Most of MC1 must have sat in the New You chair and asked Toni to take 20 years off the top and tidy it up at the back.

Nerd bullshit aside, it's probably better to treat every character the same as Dredd, and let each artist draw them in whatever way best suits their aesthetic - just as they do with the gun, bike, and eagle.

Leigh Gallagher draws Dredd with a face like Keith Richards' scrotum, but MacNeil's looks the same as he did the day he discovered John Cassavetes was dead.


* peace be upon him
Title: Re: Prog 2002: Retaliatory Strike!
Post by: Muon on 14 October, 2016, 11:20:55 AM
Quote from: Frank on 13 October, 2016, 07:19:32 PM
Quote from: sheridan on 13 October, 2016, 06:03:24 PM
Quote from: sheldipez on 13 October, 2016, 01:18:28 PM
Are Judge's not entitled to free face lifts/ replacements as part of the perks?  ;)

... a rejuve job would affect her psychic powers, though I don't imagine a conventional (for our times) surgical facelift would have an affect.

Nerd bullshit aside, it's probably better to treat every character the same as Dredd, and let each artist draw them in whatever way best suits their aesthetic - just as they do with the gun, bike, and eagle.

Leigh Gallagher draws Dredd with a face like Keith Richards' scrotum, but MacNeil's looks the same as he did the day he discovered John Cassavetes was dead.


Yeah, that's what I've been thinking. The portrayals of Dredd have been wildly different from artist to artist, particularly in the last ten years or so, and that's fine and dandy with me. In fact, I like to see all the different artists' interpretations. The lack of a prescriptive house style is one of 2000 AD's unique points after all. Anderson herself has gone through quite a lot of interpretations already, including Brett Ewins' Debbie Harry lookalike in the mid '80s. It's all good.
Title: Re: Prog 2002: Retaliatory Strike!
Post by: Link Prime on 14 October, 2016, 12:17:04 PM
Quote from: sheridan on 13 October, 2016, 11:23:44 AM
Quote from: Alien Goodness on 13 October, 2016, 10:03:56 AM
And am I the only one who likes Clint Langley's black & white artwork for Flesh? In fact I like it better than some of his colour work.

You're not the only one - I'm liking the black and white stylings also.
Quote

Clint is an amazing artist.
Thumbs up from me for his recent work of Flesh.
Title: Re: Prog 2002: Retaliatory Strike!
Post by: DrJomster on 14 October, 2016, 11:29:31 PM
Just read prog 2001 and 2002 back to back and have to say that was good work! V pleased all round.

Great line up. Really enjoyed the stories and all the art. Hopefully some of these strips will end up in collected editions.

Excellent work those droids!
Title: Re: Prog 2002: Retaliatory Strike!
Post by: ZenArcade on 15 October, 2016, 02:18:23 PM
Cover: one of the best I have seen in years. Murray's interpretation is a delight.

Dredd: Hitting all the right spots for this Squax. Mean, ruthless with a plethora of characters from the minds of several writers.  The reindeer shoot up, to the accompaniment of some top level Sov bombast and an overzealous AI targeting system gave me a belly laugh.

Flesh: The storyline is ok; the art is at times staggeringly good.

Hunted: Another firm favourite. The writing is up to Rennie's ever high standards.  The art really works with the plotting....an unsavoury, dislikable charachter (not Rennie) cynically if not sociopathically destroying all in his path.

Savage: I'm not into Savage in any sense, but Goddard is a delight. His research for his work is so deep.

Counterfeit Girl: really getting to like the return of Milligan. Fun story with really strong art.

The prog is going well at the moment, an enjoyable week with two really strong stories. Z
Title: Re: Prog 2002: Retaliatory Strike!
Post by: ZenArcade on 15 October, 2016, 02:21:01 PM
This ring a bell. An example of where Patrick is taking his imagery from.  :D. Z
Title: Re: Prog 2002: Retaliatory Strike!
Post by: sheridan on 15 October, 2016, 03:54:09 PM
Quote from: ZenArcade on 15 October, 2016, 02:21:01 PM
This ring a bell. An example of where Patrick is taking his imagery from.  :D. Z
Good call - I was thinking it was an Olympia reference (especially with the cameras present) but that picture is clearly the inspiration for the opening of this episode.
Title: Re: Prog 2002: Retaliatory Strike!
Post by: DrRocka on 15 October, 2016, 04:04:08 PM
Outstanding prog for me  - everything firing on all cylinders. FLESH rarely does anything for
me, but my God, Clint's art is OUTSTANDING here.
Did anyone else spot that the lyrics in SAVAGE are from the poem "The Shooting of Dan McGrew" by the bard of the Yukon, Robert Service? Born in Preston, found fame in the gold rush. I heartily recommend "The Cremation of Sam McGee" to any squaxx who've never discovered him!
Title: Re: Prog 2002: Retaliatory Strike!
Post by: sheridan on 15 October, 2016, 04:59:33 PM
Quote from: DrRocka on 15 October, 2016, 04:04:08 PM
Outstanding prog for me  - everything firing on all cylinders. FLESH rarely does anything for
me, but my God, Clint's art is OUTSTANDING here.
Did anyone else spot that the lyrics in SAVAGE are from the poem "The Shooting of Dan McGrew" by the bard of the Yukon, Robert Service? Born in Preston, found fame in the gold rush. I heartily recommend "The Cremation of Sam McGee" to any squaxx who've never discovered him!
I was meaning to look up the lyrics (and expecting them to be something entirely different to Yukon poetry).  Full poem here (https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Spell_of_the_Yukon_and_Other_Verses/The_Shooting_of_Dan_McGrew).
Title: Re: Prog 2002: Retaliatory Strike!
Post by: Stephen Parry on 15 October, 2016, 08:05:32 PM
Add another vote for Counterfeit Girl. The themes in that are as timely as ever, if you ask me. Love the art. Really enjoying this one.

Try as I have over many, many years, Flesh just cannot, well, I must have a mental block.