2000 AD Online Forum

Just to beat Tu-Plang.

AHHH! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!
The return of Sinister Dexter?

Cover of the year.

That cover is awesome!!!

-Tu-plang, off to start the Prog 2004 thread.

Eh? Where'd that cover come from? I've only just read 1343.

I haven't even read 1343.  Ignore Oddy, he's just trying to show off in front of his friends.

Worked though, didn't it!

Damn! Must agee there Oddboy.

Agee??  must use more fingers

What? What's going on? I'm all confused. Nurse? Nurse!

guess thats five pages a week I can skip over. Bring back Bec & Kawl.

La Placa Rifa,
W. R. Logan.

Well, to be fair its probably the least shit part 1 of a throwaway SD story I've read for quite some time.

Coming soon: A two part Steve Moore Past Imperfect.

Got mine.


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COVER: A pretend film cover - not my favourite cover style.

NEevre Centre: Tharg gives shout outs to Zarjaz, Dogbreath and Solar Wind. Yay!  

JD: Like the storyline but dislike the art.  Some of Burns' guns look like Flash Gordon rayguns and as for those Judge Hoverbikes - they look terrible.

SIN/DEX:  This really has to be one long joke that I don't get.  Implausible amounts of just dodging B-movie giant spiders, characters swinging through jungles shouting like Tarzan, people blowing up petrol stations and escaping unscathed, little baby spiders hatching out to kill the villain in an unrelated twist ending.

LOBSTER: So far so good.

INTERCEPTOR: Going down hill for me - shame because I really enjoyed the first few episodes.  And his face plate klicked open "BZZT! Oh my God, I'm a robot".  Please. No.

ROGUE:  Nice teasing opening episode introducing a new villain and an interesting "how did he get there?" predicament for Rogue (and how will he get out). Lovely mucsular b/w art as well.


ALIEN INVASIONS: This made me chuckle but I'd like to point out to Henry Flint that drugs are bad and he shouldn't do them.


 

Next issue 1345 should be the start of my subby, heh hehheh

Hehheh Huffy

Didn't really like this cover either - think it's as much to do with the colours as anything.  Darker would have been nicer.

Sin/Dex - are we to presume that giant spiders will soon be menacing the city?

Interceptors - liked the Football Ltd. shirt and the comedy head smushing :)

Lobster I'm likng, but I feel I have a fair idea how they'll torture the computer...

Rogue, hmmm.  The problem with this, as it always has been, is the Norts are too cartoon bad guy-ish.  I'll give it a chance tho'.

Alien Invasions, Hoorah!  Great stuff, will we be seeing more of these?  I guess so since the title's in the plural.

Overall a fair to average prog, with bonus points to Tharg for Mr. Meat Bingo and for bigging up the 'zines.
Z

That truly is a fantastic cover.A case for hanging on the wall methinks.

heres mine so there are spoilers


 





Cover - Im in the Im not too bothered by Davis art camp.  Its OK, but doesnt grab me!  The fact that I dont like SinDex doesnt help.

Dredd - Script is brill, but Burns art is not that clear.  Prefer him on dante, TBH, or another strip.

SinDex - well its pretty poor.

Interceptor - Im glad this is winding down.  good start mediocre end

Lobster - Great stuff, fun and violent.

Rogue - well its setup I hope it doesnt disapoint.

Overall the progs good, but I have some niggles.  Im sure they can be sorted.

Dan Abnett's a funny guy. VC's-fantastic. Atavar II-er..what's that about? Sinister Dexter-terrible,terrible bollocks. How many Dan Abnetts are there?

Sin/Dex are back, happy happy, joy joy.
Been a sad long wait for them to return but we can all be happy now they are back, hopefully for a 104 week mega epic. I KNOW you all agree with me on this point, right?

Spoilers.






Cover - well, it's a damn sight better than the Sin/Dex story itself.

Dredd - I'll have to re-read this one; I didn't notice the colour change signifying a flashback until I was already hopelessly confused.  I like the artwork but when the "present day" panels are already so subtle, the contrast should really have been made more vivid.

Sin/Dex - inconsequential crap.  Abnett's never given me cause to care what happens to these particular protagonists anyway, and here they're stuck in a story that's simply poorly plotted.  Riceburgh's comeuppance seemed entirely coincidental to the rest of the story - ooh! spiders got him anyway!  Rubbish.  Still, I like the art.

Interceptor - this one has really grown on me and I'll be sorry to see it finish.  It really benefits from not finishing on a "erk, need a cliffhanger ending quick...um, surprise!  guess who else is an alien!" panel, like so many of the previous parts.  Also, it's hard to truly hate any comic featuring a cute blonde chick with a plasma cannon, so bonus marks there.

Lobster Random - really good now they've got the basic character introduction stuff out of the way.

Rogue - meh.  I'll wait for Rogue to actually be in it.

Alien Invasions - maybe I'm just being dense, but I didn't really get what the first and last two panels had to do with the bit in the middle.  They feel tagged on to give it a Future Shocks style ending, which is a pretty odd feeling to get from a one page story.

Highlight of the prog?  The 'From Grace' teaser pic.  He's got a hatchet!  How can it turn out bad?

"Dredd - Script is brill, but Burns art is not that clear. Prefer him on dante, TBH, or another strip."

aw,... have to disagree with you there. Burns is a genius. I've seen his panel layouts used on more than one occasion to illustrate "How to draw comics" articles. And with damn good reason. Whilst many others just lump ilustrations down hap-hazardly, Burns guides the readers eyes around the pages perfectly. His splash-panels never attract attention before you're supposed to see them, the pace speeds up when it's supposed to and slows down when it should.
The guy should be cloned a dozen times and each of these clones chained to a drawing board kept awake 24/7 with strong coffee and strong drugs.
In short: I liked it.

you must be joking, I'd rather read Death Planet or have my eyes poked out with red hot pokers than have to read sin/dex.

La Placa Rifa,
W. R. Logan.

Vayase! I really think Sin/Dex is a funny strip, by the way, it's a parody and it's meant to full of puns.How the funt can you not see the humour?
Oh and I have both Death Planet and red hot pokers so depends on which you prefer. You better start running Logan.
Everybody see Logan's Run
;-)

I think everybody sees the humour, but can't seem to find it funny.  I'd have to agree.  A little subtlety can go a long way if Abnett'd like to give it a go.

Heh!  Without going over old ground, we all see the point and the humour.  But after 10 years or so the same joke really isnt that funny any more, for me at least.

As for the dredd art, I like Burns. I just think in this case he was the wrong artist and it doesnt suit the strip.  Thats all.

Yer Slippo

Don't get me wrong, I like Burns art.  

Like Slippo, I just don't think it's suited for somethings.

He's very good at talking heads stuff- very expressive faces and figures but I don't think his action art is that great - characters often seem slightly contorted (and I never think he gets Nikolai Dante's bioblades to come out at a believable angle).  

I think his explosions in particular are very weak.  

I thought his use of colour so far on Cheif Judge's Man Revenge has been poor - I don't think a jail break in a thunderstorm should not be littered with soft pastel shades.

And don't get me started on his "design" work - the robots and guns and vehicles he comes up with always seem to look unweildy and unvbelieavble.

Lastly and most importantly for Dredd, I don't think he can capture that essential Mega-City madness and no amount of brilliant layout is going to make that right.  But hey, what do I know etc. etc.

As for Sin/Dex, I don't mind going over a bit of old ground -  - I dislike the fact that it recycles old, old jokes from other media - somebody swinging through a jungle pretending to be Tarzan was tired when I was about 4 in the playground.  

And the self-referential "Space Pirates? What kind of hackneyed plot device is that?" sort of stuff is also well beyoind it's sell by dates. It's lazy writing IMHO.


PS:  I'm going to be taking a sabbatical from the board for the next six weeks or so.  I've got lots to do and I really need to reclaim my lunchtimes (and every spare minute of work ourtside core hours!) from you "crazy kids".  

I'll still be around on scriptdroids and cosmicray and a few of you have my email address so feel free to get in touch.  

Damn! I'm going to miss that Famke Jansen picture on the underwear thread... oh and probably some of you as well.

Will be sad to not have you around Tips :o(


Anyway, my tuppence worth:

Cover: Never liked Simon Davis' work, I'm afraid, feeling it always lacks an element of  page-design and this is no exception. Massive areas of nothingness and nowhere near captures the spirit of those old B-Movie posters. Another forgetable cover, IMHO.

Dredd: going well. more sharp writing from the master with dreamy artwork from Burns. Personally, I didn't have a problem with the flashbacks, but the idiocy of the prison guards left me a little annoyed. Would Edgars REALLY tolerate such crapiness? Hope this will develop into somthing very big. What were Goodman, Silver et al up to over the years? Burn's design elements have something of a retro feel to them and, TBH, I don't mind that. I can understand why a lot of people aren't enamoured but the story makes up for any shortcomings.

Sin/Dex: This really has me at the end of my tether. Whether or not there's humour anymore, I just really can't be arsed with it. I force myself to read it WEEKS after it appears and that's when I'm on the bog with no book to read. I have nothing against the strip and used to really enjoy it but Abnett's letting himself down now with sub-standard stuff. Humour is fine, but (call me arrogant) I expect a bit of plot and characterisation with it too. Hopefully, they will retire these two before they just become a joke. Now, I appreciate Cam Smith is experienced and popular, but this artwork just doesn't work for me. I can't see half of what's going on because it's so crowded, the line work is overdone and the shadows seem to either be inconsistent or overwhelm each panel.

Intereceptor: Good start both in terms of art and story but both have begun to wind down towards the end. Premise is fresh but it's kinda run out of steam.

Rogue: Now THIS i like! Some good characterisation and writing from Mr Rennie that really got my involved in the story at this early stage and the moody artwork set it off to a tee. Felt like a movie script actually, with some really villainous villains! Looking forward to seeing how it develops.

Mr Flint's One-Pager: Um. I understood what it was about and it was interesting to see an artist being restricted to those tight panels and just a page. Will be interesting to see how this develops (assuming there's more than one) Could it not become a forum for up-and-coming artists to have one-page crack at something? (oh please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please!)

And that's about it.

As far as I know these one pagers are Mr. Flints babies. He said at Dredd-con that he was going to propose a run of one pagers and had already got the seeds of half a dozen ideas, but whether other droids will get a crack at them I don't know.

Weren't there also rum ours of scope-creep and peices with larger page-counts iun the works?

Each to their own, we cant all like the same things, but your wrong, Sin/Dex is crap and one day everyone will realise that I've been right all along.

La Placa Rifa,
W. R. Logan.

>Could it not become a forum for up-and-coming artists to have one-page crack at something? (oh please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please!)

Up and coming should prove themselves elsewhere, I want to see artists in my Prog.

La Placa Rifa,
W. R. LOgan.

There's also a  case to be argued that one-page stories like that are definitely not something to be attempted by beginners.

Henry drew twelve (that's TWELVE) perfectly legible and understandable panels on one page, making the story flow with a great degree of  clarity.  How many other artists, especially up-and-comers, have the draughtsmanship and storytelling ability to do the same?

"There's also a case to be argued that one-page stories like that are definitely not something to be attempted by beginners. "

Granted, but I wasn't thinking of a free-for-all for amateurs like myself, but instead somewhere for Tharg to show off and gauge reaction to new artists that he wants to use.

Theres plenty of attempted Future Shocks on [scriptdroids] with 12 panel pages...

It was only a suggestion.

Shuddup and draw my fanzine, gruddammit!

You wanna piece a'me, Wyatt?! Bring it orn!









PS I'll scan my first page plan in once I get back from Le Mans. See what ya think.

'Henry drew twelve (that's TWELVE) perfectly legible and understandable panels on one page, making the story flow with a great degree of clarity. How many other artists, especially up-and-comers, have the draughtsmanship and storytelling ability to do the same?'

Was talking to simon fraser about this at Bristol. He was saying how european books often go beyond 10 panels on a page without the legibility suffering, often up to 15 panels.

Personally I'm with you - you have to be bloody good to make that amount of panels work - and Henry's bloody good. There's a lot of pro artists who occasionally have trouble with storytelling on a six or seven panel page. Lord help them if they tried 12.

Up-and-comers would be better offf honing their skills on 'normal' pages with seven panels or less before they start attempting double that amount.

Rob

Goodbye Mr Tips! (I'm so clever.) Come back soon.

Your evil monarch comments are as follows:

Cover - Not keen on spiders (Brrr) but it's striking and great fun.

Dredd - I beg to differ on Burns. I think he tells a story well and conveys atmosphere beautifully.
Okay, his style is very different from newer artists, but I followed it fine, enjoyed it very much and would submit that a variety of styles makes for a good prog.
As for Wagner's part of the package, I'm completely into this one. It's action-packed and engaging.

SinDex was okay, and almost funny this time. I can't get so worked up about it these days and I think it's benefited from its absence.
The art was pretty good.
One point, however: these are the best gun sharks around, with a perfect (IIRC?) record of getting their man. So they're a little blase about not managing it this time, even if their target did get killed by an urban myth.

Interceptor - is standard stuff and not in any way exciting.

Lobster Random - continues to be enormous fun. I love the robot perversion idea and the violence.
I'm also happy to see LR use his claws for the first time this week. Hooray!

Rogue Trooper - I love the way Staz Johnson's style has developed. It's progressively cleaner yet still eye-thumping stuff, with plenty of movement to it.
The story's just the first part, but I enjoyed it and I'm hoping for more of the same standard as before, even if it's a bit spoiled by the fact we know RT can't die.

Alien Invasions - This was good fun as a first appearance and, with five other strips guaranteed anyway, I'm pleased to get an extra page of strip for my money.

This prog: Better than average.

- Trout

Okay, here we go...

COVER - Compared to the Cabbalistics movie-poster this is very mundane

DREDD - well, for Prison-Guards who should know their folks they act unprofessional. And Edgar offering a price for the man who get?s him? huh? Are this Judges or hired help? No, don?t believe it. I like Burns, but here he isn?t the best choice, sorry.

SIN/DEX - Groan

INTERCEPTOR - still like it.

LOBSTER RANDOM - I am not a Spurrier fan, but this is good.

ROGUE TROOPER -  nice cliffhanger. This can?t be easy to a) come up with new tales which don?t contradict the continuity and which the reader basically knows how they will end and b) to write for a concept which doesn?t make much sense. I mean the war. Nu-Earth is so ravaged from the war that it would be cheaper to blow the planet to bits and start building fortresses o the asteroids than to waste soldiers on the surface *gg Sometimes it is better not to think to hard about a concept, I guess, Lol.

ALIEN INVASIONS - This is fun. I have read novels which have a much weaker invasion concept than told here in 12 panels. Flint is great!

Review of 1344

Sin/Dex, excellent, great to see the gunsharks back, more please Tharg

Was there anything else in this weeks prog?
Does there need to be anything else???

I think not, to the others who just don't get get it. i'm sorry for you, you all seems to knock it cuz you can't get it and think you are missing something. (very) vocal minority methinks.
Hopefully, 2000ad has other infomation to verify which stories are the most popular and not by looking at this board, otherwise only about 4 strips will ever get printed. Dredd,Dante (really over rated) and Caballistics (with art that looks like it was done by a 12 yr old)and maybe Strontium Dog. (anything by Henry Flint and Jock is ok too but don't let that nasty Anthony Williams near VC's again) Have I pretty much summed up the boarders here?

you all seems to knock it cuz you can't get it and think you are missing something.

Perhaps you could explain it to us?

Now Now.  Were pretty diverse here, but maybe some of us are vocal over likes and dislikes, Nowt wrong with that is there?

I get SinDex, but I DONT like it.  Thats it.  For me its a one trick pony thats lost its appeal.  Thats it.  And yes there does have to be other things in the prog, its an anthology and it has featuring Judge Dredd on the front so he must surely have to appear.

We are entitled to our views and just because they dont agree with yours it dont make us wrong and it certianly dont make us right either we just have different tastes.  Theres nothing wrong with that, Im just of the opinion if a SinDex comic was produced it would probably peter out pretty quick.

On the subject of where Tharg gets his feedback, I belive if you check back a couple of droids suggest that they look all over the place for feedback and not just here on the official site.  So rest easy, unfortunatley (and IMHO), SinDex wont be getting put out to pasture just yet.....

Yer Slippo

C'mon, Dan.  You might be able to fool these other guys, but....


;->

Not MUCH of a review of 1344, is it?

"Have I pretty much summed up the boarders here?"

Er ... for someone who bangs on about people "not getting" stuff, you seem to miss quite a bit. We give OPINIONS about things. If we don't like something, we just accept that it's not our kinda thing and get on with our lives.

"i'm sorry for you, you all seems to knock it cuz you can't get it and think you are missing something."

I don't knock it because I don't 'get' it, I knock because I don't enjoy reading it. I don't enjoy reading it because the whole strip appears to be getting somewhat tired. It was great for the first few years but since it's hardly been absent from the comic since it started, the material is starting to fray somewhat.

As a wise man once said: Vanity, vanity, all is vanity. But ONLY I know the true meaning of this!

"(very) vocal minority methinks."

You can think what you like.

"Hopefully, 2000ad has other infomation to verify which stories are the most popular and not by looking at this board, otherwise only about 4 strips will ever get printed."

I'm sorry. I seem to have been under the impression that I was merely giving an opinion. But by the sounds of it I was clearly threatening 2000AD that if they didn't get rid of Sin/Dex then I'd throw a paddy and burn all my back issues. You don't make friends by insulting people, you make friends by discussing things you enjoy. This board is refreshingly spared of people who can't get over the fact that others have different opinions. A good response to criticism of a strip you like is NOT to accuse someone of being an idiot.

"Caballistics (with art that looks like it was done by a 12 yr old)"

Funny, we were just talking about people not 'getting' things. I'm not going into a point by point dissection of why Dom Reardon's artwork is actually quite good, but suffice to saw that it is 'deceptively' simple. Examine it closely and you'll see actually how technically skilled he is. If I could draw like that I'd be very happy indeed.

"don't let that nasty Anthony Williams near VC's again"

As I said, I just give my opinion. I don't go around calling people 'nasty' just cuz I don't like their work. As Anthony has already explained on this board, VCs didn't turn out how he wanted. But having had a sneakpeek at his work for the next series, I can confirm that the problems are pretty much ironed out and it looks storming.

But then again, that's just my opinion.

This guy sounds kinda familiar ...

If we don't like something, we just accept that it's not our kinda thing and get on with our lives.

Actually no, you just go on and on and on and on... about it every chance you get.

Dom Reardon's artwork is actually quite good, but suffice to saw that it is 'deceptively' simple. Examine it closely and you'll see actually how technically skilled he is

This is exactly what I mean, so black and white. if I like it's good and technically skilled, if you don't like it it's phish and needs to be removed.

If you don't like Sin/Dex believe me, we know, it's been mentioned several times before, it's starting to sound like an obsession.

To Digriz, I KNOW there was other stuff in the prog, I was being ironic (sigh)
I love Dredd, I can read Dante but it's only ok,  love Caballistics, although, IMO, I don't like the art, just me, I don't like the art, but I am not going to post a review every week that it's in the prog and moan about it.
I cannot stand Slaine, ever, since it began! But I do not come on here and say that every 3rd time I post.

Do you bitch about BBC1 because it shows some TV shows you don't like?
I can imagine a BBC board, Eastenders, one story for 18 years, bring back the Clangers, Can't stand the new guys on Blue Peter. Only John (Wagner) Noakes can do Blue Peter right.

(BTW Wagner, Grant, Rennie, Ennis can all do Dredd spot on)

But then again, that's just my opinion

yes, it is, but do we need to hear the same thing each time Sin/Dex is in 2k?
That is my point, not that you hate Sin/Dex, I don't really care what you love/hate, it's the fact that you all go on and on about it time after time after time. Make your point, state how much you hate it, tell everyone why you think (in your opinion) it's so bad, then move on. PLEASE!!

I don't really care what you love/hate

Fair enough. But why bother coming to a 2000ad messageboard then?

hmmm, I was thinking that...

I don't hate Sin Dex. I don't not "get it". I'm bored with it. And judging by this one, so's Dan Abnet. It's lazy.

Fortunately the rest of the prog was highly enjoyable. I'm sitting on the fence as regards Burns' art at the moment, I love his stuff but can't decide if it suits this tale or not.

Interceptor has fallen off a bit after a promising start, but remains readable.

Lobster Random's great, my favourite thin in the prog.

Rogue was good too, a nice set-up, I look forward to seeing what happens next, but I have a feeling Gordon's geting into his stride here now. And the art is looking old skool in a good way.

It's lucky I know Henry Flint to be a cheery smiley type, otherwise I might suspect him to be a drug crazed loon ;) I like this kind of one page stuff, especially when it's as well done as this.

So yeah, overall the prog's still in good form. But that's just my opinion, of course ;)

Each week we review the prog, each week we put down what we feel on a story by story basis.  If sindex doesnt come up to scratch as I feel, I put it down in this thread and I put similair comments for other stories.  You see I too like dredd, but I feel Burns' art isnt suited.  So gues what I put that down.   Now in a similair vein, I dont think SinDex cuts it either in script terms or art.  This is the only place I have put this down.  I dont think this is unreasonable an similarly if others feels that caballistics isnt up to scratch or is sub-Hellboy (copywrite Floydd Kermode) then they are welcome to as well.

Its a review thread so we review.  Thats all.  If you dont like whats written, write something different.  Just dont claim that we dont get it or that we are wrong because you are right.

Yer Slippo
   

"But I do not come on here and say that every 3rd time I post."

Um ... actually this is one of the few times that I've mentioned I'm not enjoying Sin/Dex.

"But then again, that's just my opinion
yes, it is, but do we need to hear the same thing each time Sin/Dex is in 2k?"

well, since this is a review thread in which we give our opinions on each individual prog and since Sin/Dex appears more than once, surely there's bound to be repetition? You don't moan that we had a go at Bec and Kawl EVERY week it was in, did you?

The subject matter of this thread is prog 1334. Next week, there will undoubtedly be one about prog 1335, when i shall look at that episode of Sin/Dex and decide whether, in my opinion, it has improved or not and whether I should revise my opinion.

If not, I promise to keep my comments to a minimum, just in case you call me nasty or something.

When did I ever call you, or anyone else on this board, nasty?

You called Anthony  Williams nasty, and all he did was have the audacity to draw something you didn't like.

I think I can see where you're coming from SinDex, but it's often a case of damned if you do, damned if you dont - when some young cheekster (who's negative views on Sindex were well known) ignored commenting on Sin Dex, ISTR they got flak for that.

If I'm reviewing the prog, should I leave out the stories I hate and comment on the ones I like?
Most people seem to be saying the same thing - there's a weight of opinion in this small community that is anti-Sin/Dex. The only way that will change is either Dan starts writing stories that change the opinion of the people here, or more SinDex fans start posting their opinions.

Please come and tell us why you like it - what was it about the Giant Spider/Tarzan/puns fest that caught yer eye? The whole point of these review threads is to be able to discuss this stuff without people assigning motives to your opinions.

No I did not, you see, I liked Anthony Wiliams work on VC's, it's was ok in parts, not so good in a few parts and some parts were excellent. (the one where the sun came around every 30 seconds or whatever it was, the effects of the sun were very good, IMO)
The point was that i was paraphasing this board,
because of the dfall out post Flint VC's to Williams VC's

don't let that nasty Anthony Williams near VC's again) Have I pretty much summed up the boarders here?

 

Now why would you think that The Watcher?

"yes, it is, but do we need to hear the same thing each time Sin/Dex is in 2k?"

Haven't you only been here a few weeks?  Last time Sindex was in the prog I seem to remember a trend where people just ingored reviewing it if they didn't like it.  Anyway, defend the story itself rather than attacking others. And if you don't care about our opinions don't pay attention to them.

Now where's my Prog 1344, mailman?  Come to mention it, where's my 1343?

 "I was being ironic (sigh)"

The thing about being ironic is that if you have to explain that's what you're doing, you're not doing it very well ;)

I'm not a serial Sin/Dex moaner but I must say in the earlier days it did seem at least slightly believable.  Shooting a petrol tank from point blank range and magically getting away?  Away and shite!
Z

Play nice now kids....

I only got mine today, what can I say, i liked Burns' Dredd it really flows and I had no problems with the colours, hey one man's meat is veggie nightmare.

Sindex, whatever

Bring on more Radom lobster, well written and funny good artwork

Rogue, lets hope it gose somewhere new

Prog 1345 should be the start of my subbie so I'll get in at the start next week...

Tailend Charliehuff

Looks like theres a character in rogue named after my fave late 20th century warlord-gangster-bastard. I'm hoping for uterly menatl acts of bastardry to match up to the name.

The thing about being ironic is that if you have to explain that's what you're doing, you're not doing it very well ;)

I think this sums up exactly why people don't like/get Sin/Dex.
BTW I might be new as in posting but I have been viewing the boards almost since the new look site came on line. There are lots more lurkers than posters. I am not new to the boards or 2k, as I began reading it from Prog 1 back in 77 (and stopped getting Battle and Warlord at around the same time and I couldn't afford those two while getting 2K and Shoot!)

The thing about being ironic is that if you have to explain that's what you're doing, you're not doing it very well ;)

Sin your right it does sum it up but not in the way I think your insinuating.  

Pete possibly summed it up best for me, Abnett has become lazy on SinDex.  There has been, in my opinion, no character development in the last how many stories?  There seems to be little or no plot or even an arc progression.  The last good joke I can remember on SinDex is Crater Manchester and before that I cant remember another one.  

Other than SinDex Abnetts stuff has been pretty good. Avatar has been well thought out and recieved, the VC's lost its way a little in the last series, but seemed to recover quickly.

Its pretty obvious to me we arent gonna agree.  This is my own personal opinion and doesn constitute an opinion of either 2000ad or anyone else ;)

yer Slippo

Well anyway, I'm gonna shut up now, I don't want to get so into this that I get personal or people take things the wrong way. Thats not what I wanted.
Just imagine this (as my final point)
Lets say you enjoy reading Strontium Dog. Lets imagine that every time it came to a 200ad review 9 out of 10 posters made some sort of dispariging comment about it, ie. tired, old, supposed to be dead, should stayed that way, same old story lines, please end it now, I try to ignore it now,whatever it may be) and this went on week after week every time it was in 2k, and remember it's one of your favourites, you never see (or very rarely see) any good comments to balance that view. After months of this (on the official site remember) you start to feel maybe the editors will think about pulling the story because of the negative comments. (I think it's true, in most cases, anti people always speak louder than pro)Thats my main problem, I feel that something I enjoy and look forward to might end as the editors think its lost its appeal. How would you will if SD, or dante or wahtever your fav story is was coming upder this attack. Read the reviews again and subtitute Sin/Dex for your favorite story.

I used Strontium Dog as an example, (don't think I don't like that it's always been my 2nd fav after Dredd) and I know if someone did do that here to SD it would be shot down but I am just using that as an example. Anyway that was it.
I didn't intend to piss off anyone,insult anyone etc etc, I just get tired of hearing almost the same negative comments on a story I like and want to stay in the comic. I just wish people could enjoy what they enjoy and let other enjoy what they enjoy. If you don't like it thats fine, there are been many stories I don't like too but i know others do Slaine is one I cannot read.
I just find some reviews over agressive and out of proportion to a review of a comic strip in a antholgy comic.

Translation for people who can type on one of these new fangled computer things...

200ad = 2000ad
how would you will if SD...= how would you feel if SD...
wahtever = whatever

"you never see (or very rarely see) any good comments to balance that view."

So, um, maybe you should make a few of your own?  Just telling everyone they're wrong doesn't really enlighten anyone as to what you think is great about the strip.

You might also want to consider that maybe you do have a minority view.  I thought Interceptor starting poorly but has developed well.  Most people seem to feel the opposite.  I thought Snow/Tiger was good in a "Darkie's Mob for the 21st century" sort of way, not in the mature, clever plotting way a lot of people seem to see it.

In both cases, I accept that maybe my views aren't held by most people and limit myself to saying what I liked and disliked, not attacking people for not liking the stuff I do.

Neither will I ignore a strip just because somebody disagrees with me.  If, in my opinion,  Sinister/Dexter sucks every week, I'll say so.  I can't see what's to be gained by everyone ignoring things they think are rubbish.  If there are loads of people who love Sinister/Dexter, they can comment on it favourably and balance out anyone who hates it.

As Solitaire said, the fact that most people hold an opinion on something thats contrary to yours might mean its a minority opinion.  Hard to tell really - the way Sin Dex keeps appearing, you'd hope that Tharg is basing there continuing adventures on some other than the feedback here - what that is I'm not sure, as letters to the Nerve Centre are very few and far between nowadays from what I've heard, and where else is the feedback coming from - maybe Sin Dex issues sell more, in which case, their future is assured.  Possibly Tharg is basing his opinion of Sin Dex on the initial reaction - I was there flag waving for Sin Dex at the start to.  The fact is there are a good number of readers who could post here, but dont  - Is it a case of needing the lurkers to come out and tell us why they like Sin Dex?  Or  should Tharg be looking to retire the strip?  Tharg has ditched stuff that I liked, presumably because I was in the minority or the strip had run its course.  

As toi why we are so vocal: "its only a comic" isn't that much of an argument - I know its only a comic -if i took that attitude, I wouldnt be arsed to comment on anything, good or bad.  I pay my ?1.40, I'm entitled to like or dislike what I want - I can speak my mind here and see if I'm a lone voice or a growing choir.  What we need is more Sin Dex fans here - that is, if this board is truly out of synch with the average reader.

I was thinking this morning (before I'd read any of the posts on this thread) that for someone who's just won a Best Comics Writer award, Dan Abnett's Sinister Dexter stories are just quiet frankly not up to scratch.
I don't hate them, but they certainly don't deserve the writer awards.

I'm a floating voter when it comes to Sin Dex, which in itself is pretty damning for the story; as I'm a great fan of pretty much every story over the last year (Bison excluded).
And I'm not jumping the bandwagon, and I can take the abuse of all you out there who like Ron Smith's art (which I think sucks) and who dislike Dead Meat (which I think is actually pretty good really).
Sinister Dexter was one of the stories that got me back into 2000AD in 1997 after my 'sabatical' with the Murder 101 story, but now it's (on the whole) lame.

Whoo, got the prog today. One of the joys of not subscribing is watching the reactions in shops of small children to the cover. Last time, some swine reduced a small boy to tears with Moloch. On this occasion the four year old niece of the newsagent went "Ooh, fuzzy spider!" and "Tranch-lu-aar! Grrarrgh!". Bless.

IMO Dredd was best, then Lobster, Rogue, Interceptor, Invasions and Sin Dex in that order.

Now... who wants a fight?

"I was thinking this morning (before I'd read any of the posts on this thread) that for someone who's just won a Best Comics Writer award, Dan Abnett's Sinister Dexter stories are just quiet frankly not up to scratch."

My feeling is that good characters will often rescue what might otherwise be a poor story.  Sinister and Dexter are simply too shallow and uncharismatic to ever do this.  So when Abnett's off his game (and I should stress I really like a lot of his stuff - I even enjoyed his Games Workshop novels, and there're few writers I can say that about), it really stands out quite horribly.

There have been some great Sin/Dex stories.  Big Game just wasn't, for my money, one of them.  Give them a good story and I'll sing their praises as loud as the next shouty fanboy.

>Thats my main problem, I feel that something I enjoy and look forward to might end as the editors think its lost its appeal.

I wouldnt worry about any editor taking anything we say seriously.

La Placa Rifa,
W. R. Logan.

LOL! He's right, y'know.

I'm pretty horrified, by the way, that we're doing this argument yet again.

Mr 1996, if you are pro-SinDex, just argue for it. Resorting to personal attacks on boarders/ the board itself is losing you the argument.

This week I was quite kind to SinDex, because I thought it was okay, but if it gets as bad again as it was before, I reserve the right to get well stuck in.

- Trout

Meanwhile...

I've read the other half of the prog now, so I'll review:

Dredd: Well I liked the artwork, story's a good'un too.

Interceptor: still simply lovin' this sheer silly sci-fi soap*

Sinister Dexter; see comments above.

Lobster Random: Getting gooder, and I liked it to start with

Rogue Trooper: not so keen on ol' RT myself, to be honest I feel the dead horse has been flogged enough already, but we'll see.  As long as Gordon can keep a good story going I won't object to Rogue's appearence in the prog, but it's never going to be my 'best thing in the prog' (which is probably Lobster or maybe Interceptor right now)

Tharg's Alien Invasions: Great stuff, witty, nice art - Mr Flint shines again!


That's all folks.


( * ) please appreciate the alliteration, thankyou