The Last Jedi - Forum Opinion

[TordelBack]

I wouldn't lay too much blame for the binary nature of internet opinion at the feet of RLM - their criticisms are usually well thought-out and heartfelt, but it's the humorous exaggeration of the presentation that gets taken up by the mob, rather than the points made.

There's a blu-ray shaped hole in my heart just waiting to be filled by porgy goodness.

[Tiplodocus]

Mine too. Is there going to be a 3D release?

[GrudgeJohnDeed]

Anyway, interesting result, but will those dissatisfied customers turn up for Solo and Episode IX despite how they feel about TLJ?

I probably will, I still enjoy going with my friends to the cinema even if the film is a let down sometimes, we usually make a whole day of it and get food and all that! So assuming they still want to go and see them, I'll be in. Solo looks pretty good so far!

[radiator]

I wouldn't lay too much blame for the binary nature of internet opinion at the feet of RLM - their criticisms are usually well thought-out and heartfelt, but it's the humorous exaggeration of the presentation that gets taken up by the mob, rather than the points made.

There's a blu-ray shaped hole in my heart just waiting to be filled by porgy goodness.

I thought the RLM review of The Last Jedi was spot on - more bemused bafflement than anything.

[Professor Bear]

I wouldn't lay too much blame for the binary nature of internet opinion at the feet of RLM - their criticisms are usually well thought-out and heartfelt, but it's the humorous exaggeration of the presentation that gets taken up by the mob, rather than the points made.

I recently watched The Star Wars Awakens, their highly entertaining 2-hour review of TFA, and they are both well aware of the manufactured hysteria of the internet (they show footage from "reaction" videos where Youtube celebrities literally scream for attention while watching the Force Awakens trailer), and susceptible to its demands and influence (their opinion of the Prequels, despite going into detail on occasion, remains a binary one in which George Lucas is somehow personally responsible for dumbass articles on the internet ascribing deliberately archaic narrative structures to the PT*).


* There also seems to be a subtext in their reviews that Lucas was bullied out of the industry by organised fandom and that he deserved it because he's a bad person, but I hope I am reading that wrong even though it's an implication that's turned up in a few of their videos now.

[TordelBack]

True, the thrust of the Plinkett videos was very much anti-George, if equally strongly pitched as comedy. I think their more recent stuff tends to be more balanced, and more aimed at lampooning quasi-professional 'fan' channels and laughably extreme responses.  I enjoy it a lot, even if I find my own opinions in the crosshairs, but I do object to seeing RLM catchphrases being repeatedly thrown about as put-downs by people incapable of that level of criticism (or wit).

The spoof reaction-video they did for the Solo trailer before it was released was great, but even better when it was edited and spliced with the eventual trailer.  Clever stuff.   

[GrudgeJohnDeed]

I recently watched The Star Wars Awakens, their highly entertaining 2-hour review of TFA, and they are both well aware of the manufactured hysteria of the internet (they show footage from "reaction" videos where Youtube celebrities literally scream for attention while watching the Force Awakens trailer), and susceptible to its demands and influence (their opinion of the Prequels, despite going into detail on occasion, remains a binary one in which George Lucas is somehow personally responsible for dumbass articles on the internet ascribing deliberately archaic narrative structures to the PT*).


* There also seems to be a subtext in their reviews that Lucas was bullied out of the industry by organised fandom and that he deserved it because he's a bad person, but I hope I am reading that wrong even though it's an implication that's turned up in a few of their videos now.

I've got to say I never picked up on those things (certainly not as serious positions). They seem to think he's a bad, cynical film maker though, and they love taking the piss out of him. I'm sure they're not gutted to see the back of Lucas.

As to the Plinkett reviews in particular being anti-Lucas, I think you'd be incompetent if you made a comedy analysis of the prequels and did not tear George a new one! The buck stops with him, and theres plenty of hilarious and telling footage to use too.

If I remember right there was a teaser video they did once (might've been for Space Cop) where they send up all the catchphrases fans spew in the comments of every video, I'll have to find it.

[Professor Bear]

The comedy is fair game, but it goes beyond that to using independent interpretation of Lucas' work to explain why Lucas doesn't know what he's doing and then presenting these observations as evidence of Lucas being hoist on his own petard, rather than simply being roundabout straw man arguments that only work if you take the original opinion as gospel.
Their opinion has evolved over time, as TB points out, but in the case of RLM it seems less and less and like a maturing evaluation of Lucas and more buyers' remorse for backing the wrong horse with the "anything but Lucas=good" fan narrative.  I've seen very similar mea culpas in the Youtube visual essay sphere, one of the better ones being Lindsay Ellis' long-coming and self-aware apology to Stephanie Meyer.

[TordelBack]

Lindsay Ellis one of the best voices on You Tube full stop*. Her GotG stuff is brilliant.

I've never understood the anti-Twilight crowd,  but then nor have I read/watched any: problem solved.


*up there with Caitlin Doughty and Jenny Nicholson.

[GrudgeJohnDeed]

The comedy is fair game, but it goes beyond that to using independent interpretation of Lucas' work to explain why Lucas doesn't know what he's doing and then presenting these observations as evidence of Lucas being hoist on his own petard, rather than simply being roundabout straw man arguments that only work if you take the original opinion as gospel.

What do you mean by independent interpretation sorry, their own opinion or the fan theory they talked about (there was one venerating George as a genius if i recall)? Either way I cant remember them doing that really, maybe I missed it though.

I will check out that Lindsay Ellis video, is there some background or context I should know? I know Twilight got a lot of shit..

[Colin YNWA]

Well Last Jedi has passed the last test.

Watched it at home with the kids this afternoon on DVD - they're still on holiday I didn't take them out of school for this! - it still holds up really well and is now offcially the Taylor household (well mine) third favourite Star Wars film of the lot. Its really good and I think makes really good decisions pretty much throughout.

Love Luke's in it and think it provides a very fitting and character driven ending to his story - well at least his story as a living character at least.

Love the development of the new characters and they way it progresses them.

Think Snoke is used really well.

Don't really buy into the plot holes that I've often hear mentioned.

Love the way it clears the decks so if the next is handled right, will allow it to be freed of the shackles of the old stories.

Its respectful of the past without being reverential.

Above all it feels like a great, fresh and exciting Star Wars movie.

Its an absolute winner.

[Mattofthespurs]

I've bought it on blu and plan to screen it on the projector for the missus who did not see it at the cinema but I have to steel myself a tad as I was not a fan first time round.

Seen it twice and hoping that absence makes the heart grow fonder.

[Professor Bear]

Well I didn't like and the only way to be sure is to watch it again repeatedly.

[Mattofthespurs]

Well I didn't like and the only way to be sure is to watch it again repeatedly.

You never know. I've grown fond of several films I've disliked on first or second viewing and visa versa.

As Tom Jones says 'It's Not Unusual'.

[Professor Bear]

I disliked The Force Awakens even more on a second viewing and left it at that.  I didn't, for example, then go on and watch it four more times just to be sure I hated it, though I gather some did and this was what I was being sarcastic about.

I've ended up liking the Prequels after repeat viewings - when I saw them first time I legit fucking hated them - and the last time I watched Revenge I unironically loved it.  Now I know why all those dozens of articles about how the PT was really just a failure of execution so the Sequel Trilogy will be great magically appeared everywhere all at once after massive sponsor of many online pop culture websites Walt Disney bought up Star Wars and announced they were making new movies.