General Art Discussion

Kev Levell · 06 August, 2009, 08:43:43 PM

Let's get the ball rolling with a brief review for what I think are pretty essential books for anyone thinking of trying their hand at comic art.

How to Draw Comics the Marvel Way by Stan Lee and John Buscema
This is a great place to get acquainted with the basic nuts and bolts of it all. You might be thinking, ahh, that's just a kids book... well, in tone perhaps you're right. I think it's an invaluable resource and I'm not too proud to admit that I've used it very recently - if you haven't already seen, D'Israeli chats about how he found something instructive in it not too long ago either!
Comics and Sequential Art by Will Eisner
I'm pretty sure that anyone who hasn't read this is missing a trick (writers included). This book is an indispensable manual of how to build your comic strip correctly. It deals with everything from pacing and gesture to layout, frame function and established conventions. A further volume - Graphic Storytelling is also well worth a look.
How To Draw and Sell... Comic Strips by Alan McKenzie
Not quite as good as the previous two but still pretty informative in a idiot's guide kind of way and in many ways a bit more practical in the advice it gives.

Admittedly none of the volumes I'm recommending deal with the digital revolution - but here's a bit of Luddite mentality for you: No amount of fancy machinery is going to help if you don't have the basic skills associated with telling a story. Forget drawing for a moment, if you can't make a basic story flow smoothly and your reader ends up frustrated with confusing flashy page layouts - YOU HAVE FAILED!

There are a few other books, I've read and found useful, key amongst these and all worth at least borrowing from the library (if they have them) are:
Understanding Comics, Reinventing Comics and Making Comics all by Scott McCloud
Artists on Comic Art by Mark Salisbury
and The DC Comics Guide to Pencilling Comics by Klaus Janson.

Please feel free to disagree and add to the list in the healthy spirit of discussion. Also please give tips to things you've found helpful or inspiring. Or ask a question like:

Equally, if you've had a chat with an artist/creator at a convention and picked their brains... Let us know about it!

SuperSurfer · 06 August, 2009, 09:03:11 PM

Good suggestions there, KevLev. I can vouch for your suggestions of How to Draw Comics the Marvel Way and Comics and Sequential Art although I haven't seen them for years as my brother used to have them. There is one great tip in How to Draw Comics the Marvel Way which stuck with me for years, which is to ink more heavily on the underside of a character to add weight. It really works.

Back in 2000 when I went self-employed I bought Artists on Comics Art thinking I'd have much more time to practise comic art. As if. The book is Mark Salisbury and consists of interviews with Bolland, Dillon, Gibbons, Jim Lee, Dave McKean, Miller, John Romita JR amongst others. I can't remember how many artists were using only computers back then, but nevertheless the book contains tons of interesting tips.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Artists-Comics-Art-Mark-Salisbury/dp/1840231866/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1249588370&sr=1-1

I just dug the book out. Now was thinking of a good holiday read. That just might do the trick.

I was given the How to Draw and Sell book a few years ago but it seems rather dated, even though it is much newer than the Marvel and Eisner books of course, if that makes any sense.

Jim_Campbell · 06 August, 2009, 09:16:18 PM

I'd add Janson's DC Guide to Inking to that list. The Amazon reviews are full of people complaining that it doesn't tell you which number Windsor & Newton brush is best for rendering hair, but what you actually get is a thoughtful discussion of the inking process by an industry heavyweight, usefully illustrated with examples of other major inkers' work.

Definitely recommended.

Cheers

Jim

Peter Wolf · 06 August, 2009, 11:22:55 PM

Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 06 August, 2009, 09:16:18 PM
I'd add Janson's DC Guide to Inking to that list. The Amazon reviews are full of people complaining that it doesn't tell you which number Windsor & Newton brush is best for rendering hair, but what you actually get is a thoughtful discussion of the inking process by an industry heavyweight, usefully illustrated with examples of other major inkers' work.

Definitely recommended.

Cheers

Jim

Thanks for that as i was after the title of that book as i want to buy it.

I wish there were some books about inking and sketching etc in relation to UK comics because they are 2 very different things in terms of style etc.

As for going to Exhibitions if you are learning then go to as many exhibitions as possible and look at and study as much original art as you possibly can because you can learn so much from just looking at it in detail .Things like how artists ink and sketch and create certain kinds of effects can become apparent when you do because a lot of these subtleties and details are lost on the printed page and reduced in size.

Emperor · 08 August, 2009, 06:15:06 PM

Matt Badham has a great interview with Rufus Dayglo over on Down The Tubes, he touches on a lot of important points about drawing comics and it is well worth a read.

KOF · 09 August, 2009, 05:45:24 PM

Just a thought. Wouldn't be best to be a well rounded artist who then applies themselves to the comic narrative art as opposed to trying to learn to draw as well as trying to learn the specific technicalities of comic art?

pauljholden · 09 August, 2009, 05:50:45 PM

QuoteJust a thought. Wouldn't be best to be a well rounded artist who then applies themselves to the comic narrative art as opposed to trying to learn to draw as well as trying to learn the specific technicalities of comic art?

I'm going to go with... no. If you want to be a comic artist, figure out storytelling/how art can drive the narrative of the story THEN figure out how to draw. If you want to be an artist that dabbles in comics, sure, go the other way, but they're two different skillsets. And in comics, being able to tell the story is far more important than being able to draw really well.

-pj
(obv being a brilliant story teller and a brilliant artist AREN'T mutually exclusive)

KOF · 09 August, 2009, 06:29:15 PM

Quote from: pauljholden on 09 August, 2009, 05:50:45 PM
QuoteJust a thought. Wouldn't be best to be a well rounded artist who then applies themselves to the comic narrative art as opposed to trying to learn to draw as well as trying to learn the specific technicalities of comic art?

I'm going to go with... no. If you want to be a comic artist, figure out storytelling/how art can drive the narrative of the story THEN figure out how to draw. If you want to be an artist that dabbles in comics, sure, go the other way, but they're two different skillsets. And in comics, being able to tell the story is far more important than being able to draw really well.

-pj

As I said it was just a thought. I do actually agree with you about the storytelling/narrative aspect and then learning to perfect one's drawing skills, if one wants to be a "comics artist". But then, that does sound like one actually wants to be a writer, not an artist. As someone who drew as a child, I did to an extent learn to draw by looking at comics. But that didn't mean I wanted to draw my own comics or even become a comics artist. It did however give me a desire to draw, which eventually led to art college and then led on to drawing my own comics. I don't admit to being a great comics artist, but I do hope my other artistic intrests help to bring something interesting/different to it. If comics were only done by people who came from comics, then I think the genre would be much the poorer.

Kindest regards
A dabbler.

Jim_Campbell · 13 August, 2009, 09:23:40 AM

Although an "artist" of extremely limited ability, I had a Damascene revelation a few months back that I'm trying to bring to bear on all my drawing -- what little of it I can find time for.

Like all such things, it's utterly bleeding obvious once you know, but revelatory if you don't already:

Good composition is infinitely more forgiving of bad drawing than the reverse.

... And that was the source of a substantial amount of frustration with my own artistic efforts. All care and attention to anatomy and perspective, loving detail and attention lavished on the inks, none of it can camouflage a poor, or uninspired, composition.

Keep working on, and re-working, the very roughest of thumbnails until you have a composition that is dynamic, or explosive, or menacing, or whatever you're trying to convey, but do not try to move onto more detailed pencils or inks until you are absolutely happy with the composition, because nothing you can do in the later processes will rescue that initial deficiency.

Cheers

Jim

jock · 13 August, 2009, 10:59:35 AM

Quote from: KOF on 09 August, 2009, 05:45:24 PM
Just a thought. Wouldn't be best to be a well rounded artist who then applies themselves to the comic narrative art as opposed to trying to learn to draw as well as trying to learn the specific technicalities of comic art?

yes! you have to look at LIFE to be successful at drawing and story telling anyway, and limiting yourself to 'styles' and 'accepted norms' within comics is a bbaaadd idea. + any editor will spot it a mile off. absolutely understand the sequential medium, but absolutely DON'T draw all your inspiration from other comics.

Emperor · 10 September, 2009, 12:14:46 AM

Some useful advice for budding illustrators from Rob Davis:

Quote10 ways to stay busy

Ordinary folk I meet when I venture out of my shed ask me how I manage to earn enough money drawing pictures to support my three children. I'm the only wage earner so I need to stay busy. Here are my 10 ways to stay busy as an illustrator:

http://dinlos.blogspot.com/2009/09/10-ways-to-stay-busy.html

Professor Bear · 10 September, 2009, 12:25:48 AM

I literally finished a strip composed of talking heads minutes before I saw this: http://joeljohnson.com/images2/wallywood22panel1600.jpg

Some solid ideas and advice there, worth printing out and leaving by the sketchpad/drawing board.

Emperor · 15 September, 2009, 02:06:11 AM

A video of PJ Holden drawing:

http://eclecticmicks.blogspot.com/2009/09/ohhh-thats-terrible-rash.html

Kev Levell · 17 September, 2009, 11:06:47 AM

Thinking of heading to BICs with a portfolio of samples?
Here are some tips I found in passing, it's worth a look around down the tubes at any time - and there's some really good stuff in the side column on this page too.
http://www.downthetubes.net/writing_comics/portfolio_advice.html
All pretty simple stuff, but nice, concise and most importantly - helpful.

uncle fester · 17 September, 2009, 11:39:40 AM

Quote from: KevLev on 17 September, 2009, 11:06:47 AM
Thinking of heading to BICs with a portfolio of samples?
Here are some tips I found in passing, it's worth a look around down the tubes at any time - and there's some really good stuff in the side column on this page too.
http://www.downthetubes.net/writing_comics/portfolio_advice.html
All pretty simple stuff, but nice, concise and most importantly - helpful.

That's a really good link, Kev (and the follow-on links from that one aren't too shabby either) Have printed it out! Good luck at BICS.