Online Comic 'Library'

[Rex Banner]

http://www.htmlcomics.com/

Found this site at lunchtime yesterday and while it is great to be able to read comics at work as most comic sites are blocked ('gaming' is the usual excuse but some sites are 'pornography'!), I'm really not sure of the legalese with regard to it being a 'library' to get around the copyright issues.

[Pete Wells]

Ooooh that's a bit naughty... but very addictive!

[Peter Wolf]

Thats bloody excellent.  

Thanks for posting.

The lawyers might argue that the comics have already been reproduced once into a photographic image and downloaded otherwise it seems straightforward enough as its strictly not for profit .

Lets hope it stays permanently.

[Richmond Clements]

Nice one Matthew!

[The Enigmatic Dr X]

Not for profit, not for schmofit. Copyright breach is copyright breach, no matter how well intentioned. As copyright is just that - a right to prevent someone copying material - I think this is wrong. Unlike a library (which pays for the material it lends, by buying copies) this is not lending material without making a copy. This in fact seems to be copying and distributing without paying. Tut, and indeed, tut. Does it follow that anything can be scanned and made available for free on a "not for profit" basis?

[IndigoPrime]

Wow. Some serious bullshit on their "Link to Legal Reference describing how this website does not infringe on copyrights" page.

[Peter Wolf]

A library also charges directly and indirectly for the material that it lends out plus its running costs.

Where and how is this website and its content making a profit ???

It isnt.

Therefore *it is* not for profit.

Its not even asking for donations to cover its running costs or the time spent setting it up.

Copyright breach is a separate matter.

The copyright on this material still remains the property of its owners and whats more there are plenty of other examples of this type of website on the net.

Go and visit the Action comic website for example.

This site doesnt seem to state who owns the copyright of the material but it might pay them to do so.

[Kev Levell]

I worry about the copyright issues, but have to admit I was intrigued enough to look at more than one issue [slaps wrist].
It doesn't appear that every page is present though - using the example of prog 5 - there is no nerve centre and pin up page in the scans (only 28 pages!).

[W. R. Logan]

2000 normally jump on sites like these so if anyone from the Nerve Centre is looking at the message board I dont see the online Progs lasting long.

[W. R. Logan]

theres also the Judge DreddMad Magazine on there:

Mad Magazine 338: Judge Dredd

[Peter Wolf]

Every time someone sells a prog on Ebay they are reproducing an image that is copyrighted and you could say that they are doing it for profit but no one slaps a writ on them.

Is someone who is fortunate enough to own pages and pages and pages of original art from 2000ad on the ComicartFans website breaching copyright ?

Its fair use the same as this website since its of little interest outside of its fanbase.

I have only looked at the early progs and the images are just photos of yellowed pages so its not like anyone would pay any money for that anyway but its an invaluable reference resource to have so i hope it stays but in the meantime i will make the most of it .

Rebellion should make a digital archive of early progs [up to 500] available anyway and i dont know why they dont since the material is of cultural significance and deserves to be seen.I would happily pay for that service for high quality digital scans.

Pay a small fee per page or per prog or a fixed fee for the whole lot.

[IndigoPrime]

Peter—there is a world of difference between fair-use for things like sales and what this website is doing. Reprinting a cover, while technically breach in many cases, is not going to cost Rebellion anything. However, someone putting digital copies of every bloody issue of 2000 AD is clear rights infringement and smashes a whole bunch of IP laws repeatedly in the face.

To take a "it's only of interest to its fanbase" is particularly odd, since, presumably, that makes all torrents OK, what with them generally only being downloaded by the item's fanbase?

Rebellion should make a digital archive of early progs [up to 500] available anyway and i dont know why they dont

As someone whose publisher put up a PDF of his last book, against his recommendation, only to see said PDF hacked and on every sodding torrent site within 24 hours, I know damn well why Rebellion isn't exactly embracing the digital route for early progs: they'd drop their book sales by a significant amount in an instant. That's not to say I wouldn't love to see high-quality scans of old 2000 ADs available on DVD, but I can perfectly understand why it's not going to happen any time soon.

[Peter Wolf]

"As someone whose publisher put up a PDF of his last book, against his recommendation, only to see said PDF hacked and on every sodding torrent site within 24 hours, I know damn well why Rebellion isn't exactly embracing the digital route for early progs: they'd drop their book sales by a significant amount in an instant. That's not to say I wouldn't love to see high-quality scans of old 2000 ADs available on DVD, but I can perfectly understand why it's not going to happen any time soon."

I am with you on that as its just a dream.It wont ever happen.



As for bit torrents etc i dont go near them and i have never downloaded a bit torrent.I never copy or download anything illegally off the web.Not interested . [apart from the odd screenshot or dragging the odd page onto desktop for my own personal use].I dont get involved in all that stuff.

I never said anything about bit torrents being OK as i dont approve of them.I just thought that viewing slightly compressed photos of yellowed progs wouldnt be of much interest to anyone that doesnt have a special interest and is using the site in the way it was intended.

Everything is open to and will be abused by everyone else anyway.

I see your point.

With the action Comic and even Battle comics fan sites the material is mostly unavailable commercially so the websites are runned as fan sites which they make abundantly clear in their presentation and their legal blurb.They seem to be doing something right.





They credit the copyright holders.All of them .If the owner of this website knows so much about copyright law then why dont they do the same ?




The pages are just coming up blank now.

Bummer.I wanted to re read some unavailable material.

[IndigoPrime]

I never said anything about bit torrents being OK as i dont approve of them.

Why not? Fundamentally, what is the difference between downloading a torrent of, say, a comic, and downloading scans from this website, bar convenience?

I just thought that viewing slightly compressed photos of yellowed progs wouldnt be of much interest to anyone that doesnt have a special interest and is using the site in the way it was intended.

That last bit is the issue. Replace that with "I just thought that viewing slightly compressed photos of yellowed progs wouldnt be of much interest to anyone that doesnt have a special interest" and you basically have Rebellion's market for selling its IP to.

With the action Comic and even Battle comics fan sites the material is mostly unavailable commercially so the websites are runned as fan sites which they make abundantly clear in their presentation and their legal blurb.They seem to be doing something right.

I have some sympathy for sites that are genuinely providing a 'service' in terms of showcasing items that are out of print. That doesn't make them right, though, and most such sites get pissy when asked to take content down.

If the owner of this website knows so much about copyright law then why dont they do the same ?

The same what? Which site? If you're referring to HTML Comics, it's basically saying "We consider ourselves a library and therefore we aren't breaking IP laws". They're essentially utterly deluded.

[Peter Wolf]

I am not downloading anything from HTML comics.I was just clicking on and viewing a page.Nothing was downloaded which is what i meant by "using the site as it was intended".I wasnt doing a thing wrong by doing so.

 Re:"I just thought etc": Rebellion havent made available commercially quite a bit of material that i want to re read.If Rebellion want to reprint it and make it available commercially i will *buy* it.I bought multiple copies of EEs .I have a special interest in certain material but we have been through all this before and i am in a no win situation where that is concerned.

The third point about material that is not available commercially .

I can make  DVD copies of a VHS music tape in my possession [that i have to keep] that was commercially available like :Wake - The Sisters Of Mercy [WEA] [live at the Royal Albert Hall - Final concert] as shops [photoshops] will make copies of as its not commercially available as it is deleted.The copie are only for my personal use and not for profit and not for distribution.They wont copy if it is commercially available obviously.

If a fansite puts up material that is not available commercially for reference how are the creators losing out if their material is not available commercially anyway ?

Its not wrong if they are making nothing from it.Its better than the material being neglected and forgotten.



"If the owner of this website knows so much about copyright law then why dont they do the same ?"

What i meant was why didnt the creator of the HTML website credit the copyright holders of the 2000ad material ?

The fan sites credit the copyright holders.HTML Comics dont.


I am not arguing with you though as i support creators which is why i dont illegally download anything or buy pirated copies of anything ever so i am the wrong person to talk to about bit torrents etc but i do sympathise and i do see your point.