Pat Mills has done this interesting article on who he thinks are the 10 unsung heroes of 2000AD & why. Some you won't be surprised at but there is a couple names that you may not of heard off
http://www.millsverse.com/10-of-the-best-celebrating-some-of-2000ads-unsung-heroes/
*sigh* A useful and interesting list, which quickly descends into another "Why I was right and everyone else was wrong" polemic from Pat.
Mildly amusing that Pat derides the comic for "disappearing up its own arse" whilst lauding the work of his collaborator Tony Skinner, when some of that Mills/Skinner material epitomised message-over-story stuff that made the prog such a turgid slog through great swathes of the 90s.
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 10 March, 2017, 08:57:36 AM
*sigh* A useful and interesting list, which quickly descends into another "Why I was right and everyone else was wrong" polemic from Pat.
That was a bit of a 'groan' moment for me too.
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 10 March, 2017, 08:57:36 AM
Mildly amusing that Pat derides the comic for "disappearing up its own arse" whilst lauding the work of his collaborator Tony Skinner, when some of that Mills/Skinner material epitomised message-over-story stuff that made the prog such a turgid slog through great swathes of the 90s.
That was exactly why I stopped reading Crisis. Especially because of 3rd World War. And New Statesman was almost as bad. Strangely I liked Finn in 2000AD.
Yep. Some interesting takes here, but the Skinner bit almost gave me whiplash.
But Rogue Trooper is still around...
Blaming the loss of younger readers on editors trying to commission 'weird' stories to impress the NME is a new one on me. Maybe he's talking about Hewligan's Haircut, Time Flies etc? Because before them there was The Dead, Sooner or Later and Zenith, all of which were weird but outstanding.
At what point did David Bishop become persona non grata with Pat Mills? It's a bit weird that he has this entirely one-sided vendetta against the man. Is this all because of TPO?
Otherwise, an interesting and typically idiosyncratic article.
I thought it odd people where asking Pat to sign TPO at the 40th.
But he seemed happy to do so. In an atmosphere of its all 2000AD I guess.
Personally I played it safe and got him to sign Slaine and ABC Warriors.
I would love a new GFD scripted Fiends story.
Quote from: Satanist on 10 March, 2017, 12:53:13 PM
I would love a new GFD scripted Fiends story.
Me too!
A fascinating read and I completely agree with his point on John Hicklenton and his treatment from certain readers.
If you want to read a Fiends story- while not being by the legendary GFD the latest Zarjaz has a superb story inside...
(http://www.futurequake.co.uk/imagebucket/Z28/FiendsBlog02.jpg)
(http://www.futurequake.co.uk/imagebucket/CoverWebbies/CoverZ28WebS.jpg)
Cover by the awesome Tiernan Trevallion and available from The one and only FQP webshop (http://www.futurequake.co.uk/zarjaz/zarjaz-28/)
Quote from: dweezil2 on 10 March, 2017, 12:57:02 PM
Quote from: Satanist on 10 March, 2017, 12:53:13 PM
I would love a new GFD scripted Fiends story.
Me too!
Me three!
Quote
A fascinating read and I completely agree with his point on John Hicklenton and his treatment from certain readers.
I seem to recall it took a while for John's art style to grow on me, but I think I'd gotten it by the end of The Two Torquemada's, and I absolutely
love Fear Teachers. I detected a bit of Fear Teachers (story/theme-wise) in the latest Sláine.
I never knew there was a backlash against Johns art as even in my youth I thought "That's stuff is fucked up, but in a good way".
A great read, as always with Pat, but boy do I disagree with some of his ideas! My dislike of Finn and Blood of Satanus III weren't because I wasn't ready for paganism and far-out visual craziness (I like plenty of both, including other strips by Mills), or because I had something against Skinner or Hicklenton, but because they were strips I did not enjoy at all.
Also, never mind the contra-examples in 2000AD itself, no-one point him at a comic shop if he thinks Alan Moore and Grant Morrison's characters are out-of-bounds for other creators...
But I wouldn't have him any other way; he's the honest business.
Its a very Pat list and good luck to him. As with all these sorts of things I find as much to disagree with as agree but one thing is Gerry Finley-Day really unsung? Really?
I'm not GFD's biggest fan by some mark, but he has many and I'm always conscious when I comment on the things in his work I don't like that I'm really going against the flow and many, many hold his work in high esteem.
Quote from: Satanist on 10 March, 2017, 01:21:57 PM
I never knew there was a backlash against Johns art as even in my youth I thought "That's stuff is fucked up, but in a good way".
I remain unconvinced by the idea that Hicklenton didn't get a lot of work because of editorial's inability to appreciate him (and ISTR his work on Nemesis, at least, was generally pretty well received by the fans) and/or some nebulously-defined hostility towards some equally-nebulously-defined spirit of artistic rebelliousness.
The fact is: 2000AD (and the Megazine) is a machine that demands to be fed large quantities of original content with metronomic regularity. Marshalling the output of the number of creators those demands require can be like herding cats at the best of times.
If you're simultaneously dealing with hostile senior management and cuts to editorial staff and budgets, then dealing with one of those (metaphorical) cats who likes to take industrial quantities of acid, deliver pages when they feel like it, and has a propensity to draw literally
nothing that was in the original script may well feel like a luxury you simply can't afford.
Don't always agree with Pat but I love how he sticks to his strong opinions & age doesn't appear to have dampened his anger!
QuoteI ran Peter Harris' story as the first Judge Dredd in Prog 2 because it literally created the Dredd world. The whole Judge system, the bike on automatic GPS, the mutants, the Empire State road, Dredd as hero – all that came from Peter. Previously Dredd had been a solo Judge but I wasn't happy with either John's vision of Dredd or my own ...
After that, Peter disappeared. I have no recollection of him submitting more scripts, although he may have tried after I left. Then, very recently, Future Shock! director, Paul Goodwin, tracked Mrs Harris down and we learnt the sad news that Peter had passed. But his widow was thrilled to hear of her husband's success.
I must ask Paul to pass on her details to Rebellion as his estate may be due some royalties for that first episode. I was able to facilitate some royalties to Malcolm Shaw's widow in a similar way.
http://www.millsverse.com/10-of-the-best-celebrating-some-of-2000ads-unsung-heroes/
I've always wondered about this. It's strange to think even Harris himself might not have been aware of the success the character went on to enjoy.
Given the top selling status of
Case Files 1, Mrs Harris can hopefully look forward to an annual pension top-up for many years to come. Just don't introduce her to a good lawyer, or let them see a copy of Pat's remarks, above.
CalHab Pat's dislike of Dave Bishop has been going on since Dave was editor, Pat did not like the way he was taking the comic as a whole, pushing out the older writers & artists for newer younger ones who were clearly there just to try & make it into American comics, hence the NME bit & also the poor choices of artists he was "making" Pat use such as putting Siku a devote Christian on Slaine with all it's Pagan overtones which obviously ended up badly.
I am not one for normally speak ill of Pat Mills but I think 2000AD needed to go through that stage no matter how bad it got because it was like it was in it's rebellious teenager phase with Pat as it's Father & he is upset that it was not the vision he had for it.
With Gerry Finley Day he is still upset with the way Gerry was just dumped from the comic as the story goes he was told that they did not need any more Rogue Trooper stories as they had a new war story starting DR & Quinch go to war, also Gerry's wife doesn't want him to have anything to do with comics any more
Quote from: rogue69 on 10 March, 2017, 02:26:26 PM
...the poor choices of artists he was "making" Pat use such as putting Siku a devote Christian on Slaine with all it's Pagan overtones which obviously ended up badly.
Ended up creating probably the most acclaimed Slaine story of the post-Horned God era, you mean?
(Also, in its 'original' version Children of Lir is a Christian story, the pagan curse is finally lifted by a Christian priest and/or bell).
Quote from: Satanist on 10 March, 2017, 01:21:57 PM
I never knew there was a backlash against Johns art as even in my youth I thought "That's stuff is fucked up, but in a good way".
There were some particularly nasty things written about Hinklenton, during his run on Satanus III and in The Meg letters pages at that time that went well beyond constructive criticism and appeared more of a targeted, personal attack.
This is great news:
QuoteAccident Man, now being made into a film starring Scott Adkins and currently in post-production.
Quote from: Richard on 10 March, 2017, 04:51:57 PM
This is great news:
QuoteAccident Man, now being made into a film starring Scott Adkins and currently in post-production.
I see Martin Emond's name somehow seems to have fallen off the 'Created By' credits on this project.
Quote from: TordelBack on 10 March, 2017, 01:29:41 PMAlso, never mind the contra-examples in 2000AD itself, no-one point him at a comic shop if he thinks Alan Moore and Grant Morrison's characters are out-of-bounds for other creators...
It makes sense in a 2000AD-only context. No one's going to touch Halo Jones or Zenith again.
Quote from: dweezil2 on 10 March, 2017, 02:43:16 PM
Quote from: Satanist on 10 March, 2017, 01:21:57 PM
I never knew there was a backlash against Johns art as even in my youth I thought "That's stuff is fucked up, but in a good way".
There were some particularly nasty things written about Hinklenton, during his run on Satanus III and in The Meg letters pages at that time that went well beyond constructive criticism and appeared more of a targeted, personal attack.
I do recall posts on this board during the Satanus III run (from myself included) that were calling Hicklenton's work sloppy (or words to that effect).
However, when we were informed of his struggles with MS we instantly saw this work under a new light, and soon realised just how lucky we were to have his work in the Meg.
I really hope this wasn't the criticism that Pat was referring to, and I hope he knows just how much this board loves John's work.
For what it's worth I'm not the biggest fan of the
story for Satanus III, but it's by no means a
bad Dredd story.
I do honestly admire the ability to plug in all his works in the article. :)
-Btw,I hate superheroes.I wrote a comic,Marshal Law,about it.Available now in all better store.
Quote from: The Corinthian on 10 March, 2017, 04:59:09 PM
Quote from: TordelBack on 10 March, 2017, 01:29:41 PMAlso, never mind the contra-examples in 2000AD itself, no-one point him at a comic shop if he thinks Alan Moore and Grant Morrison's characters are out-of-bounds for other creators...
It makes sense in a 2000AD-only context. No one's going to touch Halo Jones or Zenith again.
Well there are 2 Mooreless Skizz sequels, a couple of non Wagner/Grant Robohunters...
Quote from: The Corinthian on 10 March, 2017, 04:59:09 PM
Quote from: TordelBack on 10 March, 2017, 01:29:41 PM
... never mind the contra-examples in 2000AD itself, no-one point him at a comic shop if he thinks Alan Moore and Grant Morrison's characters are out-of-bounds for other creators...
It makes sense in a 2000AD-only context. No one's going to touch Halo Jones or Zenith again.
As TordelBack alludes,
Skizz and
Ulysses Sweet took second
(and third) bows with other names in the credit boxes. Your point stands, though - Halo and Zenith are much higher profile and more closely identified with their creators*.
Mills' original point was about Gerry Finley-Day, and
Rogue Trooper is certainly the work with which he's most closely associated.
Tharg wasn't
wrong to try the strip in other hands, but Mills is right that it never worked again. It didn't work for the last year of GFD's run either, so I can't agree with Mills' diagnosis or prescription for its recovery. The strip had its Day.
* To be fair, I get the impression Tharg only hired Guy Adams to disinter the corpse of Ulysses Sweet as a warning shot across Morrison's bow (at the time they were reprinting Zenith), rather than because he thought the character had life in him or was worth $$$. 'See what I could do, if I wanted - let's see if you want to waste money in court over that!'.
I don't agree that Rogue never worked again. John Smith's take on the character is highly regarded, and Dave Gibbons did a brilliant job with the first Friday story, a brilliant and updated new version which was unfortunately squandered by other writers in the follow-up stories. And I quite liked the recent Hunted, even though (or because?) Rogue wasn't the main character. (Was that Gordon Rennie?)
IMO,Rennies revival in the 1300s was pretty good.
Quote from: Frank on 10 March, 2017, 05:52:21 PMAs TordelBack alludes, Skizz and Ulysses Sweet took second (and third) bows with other names in the credit boxes. Your point stands, though - Halo and Zenith are much higher profile and more closely identified with their creators*.
I totally get that, but I'm trying to articulate Mills' mindset that certain creators have produced work that's basically untouchable by anyone else. I'm not sure that Ulysses Sweet would even be on Pat's radar.
The reason Tharg hasn't assigned Halo Jones Book IV to anyone else probably isn't out of concern for Moore's good opinion (that ship sailed long ago), it's more likely because he rightly judges that it would be crap.
Rogue Trooper, much as I love it, was crap long before GFD stopped writing it, and as noted both Smith and Gibbons did better than the later stories, and Rennie is on to a winner with his current reworkings of the universe.
The prime example of a writer whose strips don't get farmed out is Mills himself (with memorable exceptions), and the reason there is fear of an explosion that might take the whole Prog with it. A useful counterpoint might be to wonder whose strips have been written by more different people than John Wagner?
I don't see 2000AD as particularly obsessed with any creators' claims, but rather with the practicality of producing quality stories: if there was a Zenith Phase V pitch out there that was worthy of the name, I doubt Tharg would turn up his nose at it.
Quote from: Richard on 10 March, 2017, 06:04:54 PM
I don't agree that Rogue never worked again. John Smith's take on the character is highly regarded, and Dave Gibbons did a brilliant job with the first Friday story, a brilliant and updated new version which was unfortunately squandered by other writers in the follow-up stories
I like those one-offs too
(and others speak highly of the IDW iteration), but they didn't
(or couldn't) translate into continuing series, which is sort of the point of a house character*.
Where I part company with Mills is his contention that the comic dropped three quarters of its sales (https://forums.2000adonline.com/index.php?topic=42838.msg914306#msg914306) in a decade because it abandoned mainstream readers. If he wants to make that one float, he'll have to explain why every other comic lost readers too.
* Gibbons never committed to any kind of long-term writing gig, and good luck convincing John Smith to button down to the grim slog of bashing out 25 episodes of Nort stabbing action heroics per annum. Maybe that gets to the heart of the matter; Tharg doesn't really do house characters anymore (Dredd being the exception that proves the rule). Rory McConville's Rogue Trooper would look as out of place alongside Edginton's Stickleback as the first incarnation of the character looked in the age of Morrison's Zenith. I much prefer the model of moving on when the creators decide the well's run dry.
Quote from: Smith on 10 March, 2017, 06:07:29 PM
IMO,Rennies revival in the 1300s was pretty good.
Yeah I'd defo agree with that.
Quote from: Frank on 10 March, 2017, 07:17:27 PM
* Gibbons never committed to any kind of long-term writing gig, and good luck convincing John Smith to button down to the grim slog of bashing out 25 episodes of Nort stabbing action heroics per annum.
Pity, though. Smiffy even made Friday interesting. His text story in the Fleischer-heavy Rogue annual was, frankly, a pearl among pigshit.
Could never get back in to Rogue (I think) after the strip that Ortiz drew. I remember that and the one drawn by Steve Dillon which, with all respect, I don't think was among his best work.
I then remember the strip written by Dave Gibbons and drawn by Will Simpson but I didn't think it was that good and I couldn't really understand if it was a reboot of Rogue Trooper or a different Rogue Trooper or what it was.
Quote from: Tony Angelino on 10 March, 2017, 09:41:57 PM
I couldn't really understand if it was a reboot of Rogue Trooper or a different Rogue Trooper or what it was.
WE FOUND HIM, GUYS!!!Congratulations, buddy - you're the reader editorial had in mind when they were plotting the unnecessary contortions of the final Fr1day stories:
(http://i.imgur.com/uWGsRkZ.jpg)
It was very definitely a reboot. But as the Friday stories dragged on Tharg first tried to convince us it was the same Rogue, until the original Rogue turned up and met Friday, till the whole thing just imploded in a soggy mess.
Cinnabar was, in my book, the best Rogue story ever published. More Vietnam than WW2 in its moral ambiguity, and incredibly non-child-friendly in places for a comic that still didn't swear.
Also, biowire turned out to be far more interesting than we'd previously thought, the Norts had a few new tricks up their own tech-sleeve while the Southers were working on genetic engineering, and Bagman is a fucking maniac.
Frank and Jayzus have hit the nail right on the head there!
Meanwhile:
QuoteGibbons never committed to any kind of long-term writing gig
Neither did Wagner, and yet other writers did a stellar job with Dredd in his absence.
Gibbons wrote one of the best stories to appear in 2000 AD, with a great hero (and a decent villain for him to pursue, not unlike a certain traitor general I could mention), and then (like Wagner in 1977) he fucked off. But he left enough material for other writers to work with and write more good stories. Instead, somehow, we got Mike Fleischer, and so all that promise was wasted. It didn't have to be that way, but it was.
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 10 March, 2017, 10:22:22 PM
Cinnabar was, in my book, the best Rogue story ever published.
It pretty much was. And the Dillon/Walker art combo was a revelation. It all felt fresh and new, but somehow like the Rogue Trooper we knew was always hiding in there. (I thought some of the short-lived Rennie revival hit the mark, too. Particularly the Staz Johnson/David Roach illustrated episodes, which strongly channelled that original Gibbons aesthetic.)
There were some particularly nasty things written about Hinklenton, during his run on Satanus III and in The Meg letters pages at that time that went well beyond constructive criticism and appeared more of a targeted, personal attack.
[/quote]
that was what upset Pat the most as John took it all to heart & sent him into a down wood spiral with his depression. The only problem I saw with the artwork was that it was originally drawn in a3 so a lot of the detail got lost
Quote from: rogue69 on 11 March, 2017, 12:48:12 AM
The only problem I saw with the artwork was that it was originally drawn in a3 so a lot of the detail got lost
Not sure I understand that. All traditionally drawn art is done over-size, usually on A3 boards, and the scanning tech available latterly was a lot more forgiving than the 'camera' repro of the 80s and early 90s, which was little better than sticking the pages through a photocopier.
There was a lot of small details in the original artwork that did not come out as noticeable as they could have as they were drawn quite small un the first place . Don't get m wrong I love John's artwork, I was one of the few people who stood up for his work on Satanus I am just saying that I can understand that some people may have missed the finer details in his work
I didn't like the Steve Dillon and Kev Walker art. I didn't think there was very much detail in it in comparison to Dillon's earlier work. To be fair I haven't looked at it in years now but I seem to remember there either being a lot of blank spaces or a lot of black ink in the panels. I thought that was strange as there were two artists working on it.
Sad to hear about John Hicklenton. His artwork wasn't to my taste but it probably sat best with Nemesis than the other strips.
Quote from: rogue69 on 10 March, 2017, 02:26:26 PM
With Gerry Finley Day he is still upset with the way Gerry was just dumped from the comic as the story goes he was told that they did not need any more Rogue Trooper stories as they had a new war story starting DR & Quinch go to war, also Gerry's wife doesn't want him to have anything to do with comics any more
Erm, I wouldn't describe DR & Quinch Go to War as a war story, despite the title...
Plus it was only a few parts. It was never going to be a staple.
And it was a comedy.
Quote from: Tony Angelino on 11 March, 2017, 11:17:47 AM
Sad to hear about John Hicklenton. His artwork wasn't to my taste but it probably sat best with Nemesis than the other strips.
His Nemesis was fantastic - on re-reading Nemesis Vol 2 last year I actually preferred his bits to Talbot's, they seemed so alive. His Third World War stuff was brilliant too, but I never liked his Dredd, not Heavy Metal nor Satanus. I bang on about this a lot, but the sketches used between chapters in the Slaine the Wanderer HB are just extraordinary - a great artist, lost far too soon.
What TB said. I'd take Hicklenton Nemesis over Talbot Nemesis too - in fact I'd prefer it when to Kev O'Neill's new, simpler style. I miss our Johnny.
For what it's worth, I've suggested a few more unsung heroes of 2000AD:
http://viciousimagery.blogspot.co.uk/2017/03/celebrating-some-of-2000ads-unsung.html
davidbishop
Quote from: DarkDaysBish-OP on 13 March, 2017, 03:06:10 PM
For what it's worth, I've suggested a few more unsung heroes of 2000AD:
http://viciousimagery.blogspot.co.uk/2017/03/celebrating-some-of-2000ads-unsung.html
davidbishop
Well,I have to agree with that list.
Quote from: DarkDaysBish-OP on 13 March, 2017, 03:06:10 PM
For what it's worth, I've suggested a few more unsung heroes of 2000AD:
http://viciousimagery.blogspot.co.uk/2017/03/celebrating-some-of-2000ads-unsung.html
davidbishop
Good stuff David! :)
"Armoured Gideon"
And now I'm thinking about that 2000 AD partwork and "what if...?"
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 10 March, 2017, 10:22:22 PM
It was very definitely a reboot. But as the Friday stories dragged on Tharg first tried to convince us it was the same Rogue, until the original Rogue turned up and met Friday, till the whole thing just imploded in a soggy mess.
Actually Tharg began claiming that War Machine was Original GFD Rogue Trooper: Year One in the Nerve Centre whilst that strip was still running the prog.
Clearly Green Bonce wasn't reading Gibbons's scripts.
Quote from: The Corinthian on 10 March, 2017, 04:59:09 PM
Quote from: TordelBack on 10 March, 2017, 01:29:41 PM
... never mind the contra-examples in 2000AD itself, no-one point him at a comic shop if he thinks Alan Moore and Grant Morrison's characters are out-of-bounds for other creators...
It makes sense in a 2000AD-only context. No one's going to touch Halo Jones or Zenith again.
[/quote]
Let's not forget Mark Millar's Zenith text story in the Sci Fi Special which shamelessly "borrowed" from Marvel/Miracleman.
I don't believe Matt Smith is an 'unsung' hero though- I doubt there are many readers who don't appreciate the turnaround in fortunes under his tenure. I don't always totally like the prog or the meg, but I keep coming back for more because I know there will be something else along just around the corner- that's the beauty of 2000ad, it utilities the anthology format for variety to maximum effect. Also, from 'associated merchandise' POV, we have been totally spoilt in recent years- even scum like me have a drawer full of T-shirts, hoodies, hats, mugs, a fucking mouse mat and GN's galore- the list goes on.
The comics public profile is huge compared to just before I came back to the fold- just before I did I wasn't even aware it was still going and assumed it had went off to quietly die til I saw it in W H Smiths of all places (I had always ordered from grotty little local newsagents when younger- and do so again now). Matt's success as Tharg is undeniable, long may he continue.
I also don't understand other peoples undying love for Armoured Gideon- hated it back then, can't see it now either- I really dislike the art (stiff, over linear and just fuck-ugly) and barely even remember the details of the story I was so underwhelmed by it- I recall my mates loving it at the time, whilst all I thought was 'why?'. That said, I can see the love for it from the majority so can't really deny it a place.
In more recent times, I feel the same way about Kingdom, I flick past it with barely a glance, but I realise I'm in the minority and that the comic isn't being made just for me, so fair dos. By the same token there's stuff I have loved and have also been in the minority. It's a big wide world, nothing is perfect, life's rich tapestry, meat & poison etc.
Quote from: Dog Deever on 14 March, 2017, 01:23:22 AM
In more recent times, I feel the same way about Kingdom, I flick past it with barely a glance, but I realise I'm in the minority and that the comic isn't being made just for me, so fair dos. By the same token there's stuff I have loved and have also been in the minority. It's a big wide world, nothing is perfect, life's rich tapestry, meat & poison etc.
I think Kingdom likely reads better in trade format as it can seem to lead nowhere at times and then WHAM - all out action with a twist. I don't read the progs regularity but enjoy reading the collected editions - for modern 2000AD Kingdom is one of my favorites (I recently ordered v.3 Aux Drift). Maybe you would enjoy it more reading it all at once? I find most stories are better when consumed in large quantities!
I feel late to the party on this one! Pat's list and rant was fascinating as ever; Bish-Op's response was measured and charitable as ever. I wonder if he ever shouted back at Pat, see if that provoked a different reaction? He comes across as very relaxed in general.
Given that my blog
http://heroesof2000ad.blogspot.co.uk/ (http://heroesof2000ad.blogspot.co.uk/)
so far features ever single person on Bishop's list but none from Mills's (barring the mixed bag that is Gerry Finley-Day here: http://heroesof2000ad.blogspot.co.uk/2015/05/no-20-gerry-finley-day.html (http://heroesof2000ad.blogspot.co.uk/2015/05/no-20-gerry-finley-day.html))
I think that makes me the enemy in the mighty man's books! Some of his heroes I will definitely get to (around September I should think), but some are unsung because they have, almost literally, never been sung of before - or, in too many cases, never really got enough chances to work on the comic.
I love getting to hear about the behind-the-scenes contributions of, say, Doug Church and Nick Landau, but I do feel a bit attacked for not having heard of them before, or at least, before TPO! (I get it, Pat isn't actually angry with us fans, he's angry at like 4 or 5 specific people from 2000AD's editorial /management team).
I do agree with Mills's assessment that the comic did make a decision at some point around the late 80s to try to court what he calls NME-reading fans, to the detriment of younger readers. But I'm also inclined to think that was the comic turning more mainstream, not less. As has been pointed out above, all the comics aimed at younger readers had died by the mid 90s; only the comic that dared to grow up with its existing readers made it through the drought.
I was one of those readers who didn't get The Dead and Hewligan's Haircut at the time they ran, and yes, at the time I'd rather have seen more Dry Run / Chronos Carnival-type stuff. But I'm sure glad Tharg didn't pander to 8-10 year-old me now!
I'll never understand why Titan didn't reprint any Belardinelli stuff, though. Madness!
I really liked Hewligan's Haircut at the time. And was it really that off the wall compared to some of the decidedly oddball stuff that happened during 2000 AD's classic years? I'd argue that there was an attempt to appeal a bit too much to the Loaded/NME crowd at times, but really the big problem during 2000 AD's crap years was a combination of decent creators leaving, not enough decent new people coming on board, and the editorial team not being strong enough to manage some of the issues at hand.
Indigo Prime, your assessment of the 90s bad phase is jut far too sensible and rational to have any place in a debate with Pat Mills!