Confused about inking.

[EdBinn]

Great links Emperor. Would love to have a go at that reinking Thor Flickr group but have enough distractions as it is.

Not referring to you, SuperSurfer, but to all the big-mouths who criticize Vince Colletta on a daily basis yet didn't have the stones to try their hand at Re-Inking Thor.

And of those who did try it, none was able to come close to Vinnie's inks. You tell me if you feel that anyone did.

I'm sure that this doofus  Matt Timson would do better, though. He is soooo talented.

[Colin YNWA]

Glanced at your web site.

All of which led me there as well and while I'm sorry to go off topic, have to say its GREAT. Absolutely love it. So much so in fact that for the time being at least you're glorious picture of the Fury is my desktop.

Good stuff

[Richmond Clements]

Glanced at your web site. Typical cartooney stuff that Vinnie (or most any professional artist) could draw left-handed. I am guessing that you have a day job. Office worker, perhaps? Delivery driver? Colletta and the rest of those guys produced every day for 40 years, beat deadlines, and will always be talked about. You? Not so much. Take care, laughing loser.

Oh dear...

[WoD]

Looked at the Jack Kirby penciled panel and the Vince Colletta inked version and my preference is undoubtedly Vince's finished art. Jack Kirby put everything but the kitchen sink into his compositions and it took a really good inker to figure out what to keep and what to leave out in order to make the work understandable and appealing.

Looked at the link you provided that showed all the Kirby and Colletta examples which were beautifully done. This is an inker that people have a problem with??? Also in that link was an example of a recreation by inker Dan Adkins that is nowhere near as well done as Colletta's. Adkins inking is childish while Vince's inks are quite artistic by any standards.

Looked at the examples of the 20 great inkers that included Adkins and omitted Colletta. Enough said.

Glanced at your web site. Typical cartooney stuff that Vinnie (or most any professional artist) could draw left-handed. I am guessing that you have a day job. Office worker, perhaps? Delivery driver? Colletta and the rest of those guys produced every day for 40 years, beat deadlines, and will always be talked about. You? Not so much. Take care, laughing loser.

Give over...Matt has two (at least) very varied styles...one is cartoony and the other is most certainly not.  He is a very talented (and professional) artist, and he can also fight  his own battles so I'll just shut-up now.

[Jim_Campbell]

Not referring to you, SuperSurfer, but to all the big-mouths who criticize Vince Colletta on a daily basis yet didn't have the stones to try their hand at Re-Inking Thor.

We are referring to the Vince Colletta, aren't we? The Vince Colletta, whose name is synonymous with hack-work, the Vince Colletta whose defenders in the industry have to admit that charges of hackery have some merit.

I am somewhat persuaded by Larsen's argument in the link above, that Colletta's ability to turn in a job on time regardless of the shortness of the deadline resulted in his perpetually being handed stupidly short deadlines that, in turn, forced him to do a less than stellar job on the inks.

Nonetheless, widespread examples of Colletta's wholesale disregard for detail, elimination of backgrounds, and, in some cases, multiple figures from single panels, are -- to me -- more liberties than an inker should take with pencilled artwork.

YMM, obviously, V.

Cheers

Jim

[Peter Wolf]

Its a shame that someone shows up here with an aggressive attitude problem and an axe to grind without even introducing themselves.

I like this inker and you dont and you think this inker is better than that inker and i think/know you are wrong

So what ?

FFS grow up.

[EdBinn]

Its a shame that someone shows up here with an aggressive attitude problem and an axe to grind without even introducing themselves.

I like this inker and you dont and you think this inker is better than that inker and i think/know you are wrong

So what ?

FFS grow up.

You are correct, my friend.
I'm Ed and I like many artists that aren't well regarded by the masses, Colletta being one of them.
If you are a Vinnie fan, going on a comic book forum is like jumping into a shark tank.
This, alone, would tend to make one aggressive, even if one is non-aggressive in other walks of life.
Other than Dan McFan (http://ismarkevaniermentallyill.blogspot.com) and Lyle Tucker, the rest of Vinnie's admirers have been reduced to quivering piles of jelly by the Kirby-loving trolls who follow each other like little soldiers in a single-file march and take every opportunity to rip into a guy who did more for comics than just about anyone. Not only do they bash Colletta, they pile on the poor guy who made the "i like Vinnie" comment until he has no choice but to back away from the mob.
I didn't attack SuperSurfer, I simply pointed out that most of the big mouths never even tried re-inking Thor.
As for those who did take the challenge, although they had the luxury of taking a week or a month to ink the panel, none came close to doing the great job Colletta did. If you were the inker saddled with rescuing books that were late because of mediocre editors or slow pencilers you'd do exactly what Vince did. Make up for their laziness by knocking the work out practically overnight. Never once did Roy Thomas, Len Wein or Marv Wolfman say thanks. Instead they criticized the guy for doing bare-bones inking. You know, I can forgive fans because they are basically clueless in the first place but reading comments from pros like P.Craig Russell piss me off. I'd like to see that gay boy do even a tenth of the deadline work Colletta did. I'd hate to see what it would look like, though. Vinnie was a star, no two ways about it. His inking, when he had sufficient time, surpassed everyone else, even Sinnott.
So that's all I have to say and my apologies for coming on so strong.

[Peter Wolf]

Hi.

I see where you are coming from but i dont go on any other comic forums and i must admit i dont know an awful lot about US comics and all the artists and inkers etc so i dont know what i like so i cant really comment on their work.

Within 2000ad i like a lot of artists and strips that others generally think are either rubbish or to put it politely are not as highly regarded as others so they hardly ever get mentioned ever yet there might be an entire thread about Nikolai Dante for example that just leaves me cold quite honestly.

Thats life really but its a shame that you had to run into the mob rule mentality because of it but i have been there enough times for similar reasons.

Ultimately though it doesnt matter what they think about what you or i like regarding strips or artists or inkers etc because you or i like what we like and we enjoy their work and thats all that matters.

If everyone was the same and liked the same thing life would be boring.

Life is tough being a minority.

[I think ? i was told i was talking shit in another thread earlier today but i dont really give a toss anymore .Also my comment was a bit pot-kettle-black because i can be very aggressive if provoked so apologies for that].

[SuperSurfer]

Blimey, having Googled Vince Colletta it looks like we strayed across some sort of a war. I knew nothing of this. I'll be honest, he was never a fave of mine but I put that down to his style being one that just didn't do it for me. I didn't know that so many pencilers (or any in fact) had a gripe with him.

[Matt Timson]

Looked at the Jack Kirby penciled panel and the Vince Colletta inked version and my preference is undoubtedly Vince's finished art. Jack Kirby put everything but the kitchen sink into his compositions and it took a really good inker to figure out what to keep and what to leave out in order to make the work understandable and appealing.

Looked at the link you provided that showed all the Kirby and Colletta examples which were beautifully done. This is an inker that people have a problem with??? Also in that link was an example of a recreation by inker Dan Adkins that is nowhere near as well done as Colletta's. Adkins inking is childish while Vince's inks are quite artistic by any standards.

Looked at the examples of the 20 great inkers that included Adkins and omitted Colletta. Enough said.

[Matt Timson]

Great links Emperor. Would love to have a go at that reinking Thor Flickr group but have enough distractions as it is.

Not referring to you, SuperSurfer, but to all the big-mouths who criticize Vince Colletta on a daily basis yet didn't have the stones to try their hand at Re-Inking Thor.

And of those who did try it, none was able to come close to Vinnie's inks. You tell me if you feel that anyone did.

I'm sure that this doofus  Matt Timson would do better, though. He is soooo talented.

Well, by that same rationale (as practiced by 8 year olds everywhere), let's see you draw better than me, dicknose.

Everybody's entitled to an opinion- just as everybody else is entitled to laugh at it.

Welcome to the board, by the way.  Great introduction.  

[Jim_Campbell]

let's see you draw better than me

With or without cheating?

Cheers!

Jim

[Matt Timson]

In the highly unlikely event that he can do any better, then it goes without saying that he's cheated...  

[Jim_Campbell]

In the highly unlikely event that he can do any better, then it goes without saying that he's cheated...  

One day, I'll find out where you downloaded that simulate cool artist filter for Photoshop and then -- oh, boy -- then you'll get a run for your money, Timson ... Oh, yes.

Cheers

Jim

[Matt Timson]

In all fairness, I don't doubt for one minute that Vinnie Colletta can ink better than I can.  I'm a terrible inker.