2000 AD Online Forum

As an experiment, I'm edited the message index so that off topic threads appear in a separate section. What do people think?

Wake

Surely this will only work if thread starters actually mark them as off topic, though? Loads of them end up just get labelled 'General'.

Interesting.
Should mean you don't miss threads (either on or off topic) so easily as they won't be on a previous page from others nudging them down.

If an off-topic thread appears as 'general' then I could edit the database to relabel the thread.

interesting indeed...this will show (or should show) how the thread distibution is split....

Im not a great fan of offtopic, but maybe a link at the top to point you straight down, rather than scrolling?

Nah, unwarranted. If it aint broke.

Hmm, not sure.

There some stuff down there that I'm interested in reading, but don't want to scroll down for...

I know this would be more work, but would it not be better to have each "Section" as a page to itself, with a "Master" page giving a list of latest posts?

Each registered user could then decide which sections to have on their Master page...

You could even exclude Offtopic from the default master to encourage non-registerd users...

Dan
(who likes offtopic conversations)

I don't like it - sorry.

I just flick to the board to give my mind a break from work or whilst waiting for the PC do to something. Just a quick glance tells me if there's anything new or not and then i can either look at that thread or go back to what I'm supposed to be doing.

With two sections one has to scroll, which isn't the end of the world, but is a bit of a pain.

M@

Should be good.

But what about threads that swing wildly on and off topic?

Suppose they should just stick where they start out, I guess.

Actually scrap most of that - just realised that most of what I say can be done from the drop down...

Show's how much I use it ;)

So really it's just the idea of how you navigate the sections, and whether you can edit your summary choices...

Dan

Let's give it a week and see what happens.

There are some amasing oof-topic threads tho.

Jareds ultimate link

Woolies art thread

Infact

The comics search.

E-bay originals.

T-shirts.

By the way I swing both ways, No Wils, Bears, I mean on and off topic.

Maybe it will sleuce my addiction to the site if it is around the houses tho.

Pretty poor usability here. Most people won't even known about the OT table. If you do want to split the list, you really need to have either much shorter tables, or two separate pages. If the primary page is to be the "main" message board, there needs to be a link to "off topic" at the top of the main page.

Personally, I was happy the way it was?splitting forums apart usually leads to fewer people using them, because it's more hassle to check >1 forum than it is to check just one.

It's rubbish.

Not fussed either way, really.  I can't say as I've ever checked to see if a thread's on or off topic before I've read or ignored it.  Glancing at the board seems to show that most of the general threads are really off-topic anyway.  

It's your time at the end of the day, but does it really matter?  The only person *really* moaning about off topic threads decided to bugger off anyway...

;)

And what happens if I decide to take it off topic?

Look at that!  Chaos!  Anarchy!  And all because I've decided that this discussion is now off topic.

It'll end in tears...

This is confusing.

It makes the site cramped.

Its reminiscent of enclosure disasters.

During the agricultural revolution.

Trout needs to be horsewhipped.

#Trout needs to be horsewhipped

or fish fingered

hehehe.
 the cruelty;D

If I stick with this format then I can add an off-topic link from the top.

I could fairly easily make it so that users could opt to have this alernative index view with the original one as the default.

Wake

Dont listen to trout ,wake its only him trying to divide and conquer.

Unless you're sick of the random remarks?

I'd like to have the choise to have it like this or how it was before.

Nice to see that as a democratic community we had a vote on this first :-(

Don't like it.

Forgot to add that I don't like it either

> If I stick with this format then I can add an off-topic link from the top.

Seems to be a fairly strong negative view to that so far...

> I could fairly easily make it so that users could opt to have this alernative index view with the original one as the default.

Would this be best, or would you want to omit offtopic as default (as I've seen on other boards where this has come up)?

Dan

Shitty death, is this really necessary?
If anything, its proven once and for all that the trout rules.

Fair play to Wake for trying to come up with a suitable middleground (and bloody quickly too). Got a feeling the board may lose a little something with this segregation though.

YaY, back to normal (or is it just me?)

I appreciate you trying it out to see what it looks like, Wake, but I'm afraid I just don't like it.

To be perfectly honest, (and this is general rather than directed at Wake) none of the people on other boards I visit get their knickers in such a twist over off-topicness and they are FAR more off-topic than this place ever is.

I'm all for people being more accurate with the categories they choose, but I'm afraid at the end of the day it comes down to if you don't want to read off-topic, then don't click on it.

Back to normal. I've left a copy of the segregated alternative on the site so people can have a look, or even bookmark it.

Cheers,

Wake

Link: Message Index (with off-topic segregated)

I think that's a much better idea, Wake. That way, you can have the board you want without imposing it on others.

Maybe have links at the top of the page marked 'On-topic threads only' or 'On/off topic'?

Well I liked it!

I'll be using the seg. version methinks.

Although to note, that only 1 off_topic thread has been used in the last few minutes, and many on_topic threads have been!

Wake, please keep the option for seperate off-topic posts if possible.

Thankew.

Well people could stop posting every last damn thing that comes into their minds as threads. I mean, I'm sorry to be harsdh - but Jesus, listen to you people "I'm going on holiday", " I've bought a new pair of socks", "Some bloke you've never heard, and, sad to say, will never care about is dead".

I understand as much as anyone that we're all fairly social types and not every post is going to be strictly relevant to 2K, and it would be boring if it did, but not every subject is that interesting either. It's not your blog and I don't particvularly care about your weekly shopping trip to Tescos or whatever, unless you happened to get abducted by aliens along the way.

I don't give a monkeys, but I have to admit that I prefer the unsegregated version, as it means I only have to glance quickly at the messageboard to pick up if anything else has been said on a given topic.

I don't understand the hostility towards off-topic in general - no-one's *forcing* you to read any of the threads.

I dunno, maybe it's because they're like a vione choking the life out of the board? And as I;ve said, I've a pretty high tolerance fopr the off-topic. I thrive on it even, it's just the utterly inane I can't stand.

Nope I think it should stay as it is.

Awwwww. I missed it! I had to work. Busy day today.

Anyway, I want to add a couple of things.

Firstly, I'm very sorry if I created work for Wake. I didn't intend to.

Secondly, I'd like to point out that nobody has heard my opinion yet, because I haven't expressed it. The "wax on-topic" thread begins with me asking for people's opinions.

I'm unsure on the subject of a separate section, but I would like the worst offenders to regulate their behaviour a little.

- Trout

Now we've got two threads of people ranting about how much they love/hate the off topic threads...
It's like Big Brother all over again!!!

Having the option to choose solves it all doesn't it?

Missed all this, and I think I'm glad really.

The board can stay in it's original format for me, I imagine that people can just decide what threads they are going to follow and act accordingly.

Bolt-01

All hail democracy!

Link: Get voting!

Yup, I missed it too but am pleased there's no change. I like getting involved in all the 2000ad stuff but also see this board as a great place to go if I need help with other things (especially techy stuff) in a nice, non sarcastic way or if I just want to get things off my chest.

Cheers for keeping it on and off topic Wake!

Pete.

good idea wake
this will enable now boarders to see a more structured 2000ad message board. but allow the more insane amongst us to see the stuff we enjoy as well.

as always another fine upgrade to the 2000ad site experience.

Would a reasonable alternative to the segregated board be the ability to killfile specific threads?

Wake

A few people mentioned killfiling threads. It seems like a decent solution.

the problem with the killfile is that new boarders may be a little put off with the divercity of the board. which is the main issue i geuss.

i am for anything that is off topic is hidden unless you ask to see ALL or something of that nature,that way the board looks the same for me as i choose it to do so.
but when you first log in you get the standard sort of on topic stuff,
then from there up to you to jion in the nonsense.

personally if i dont like a thread. i simply dont post on it,or bother to read it, though there are few threads i have that attitude towards.

I like what you've got there, with the OTs below the  regular topics.
The ability to KF topics on top of that may be overkill.

wake i just took a look at this format of the board. i must say i like it.
it does look more like the balance we once had and made this place special.

im a bad one for off topic i dont discourage it,but off late it has been way to much.

jokes aside. LOGAN you had a fair point. i just could not see the wood for the trees. at the time.

Link: i like it this way. (to be honest)

yeeek, i missed this, as i was on holiday, via tescos, wearing black socks... come back scroll down  scanning to see whats the chatter of the week, & this sort of debate makes me go ...YEEEEEK
i think people moaning about what people do or don't talk about makes everyone edgy defensive & paranoid.
half way down this thread i thought oh screw this i'm off to ebay.

i wish review threads & threads about recent progs n megs stayed around longer, so i could moan more about the goddessess bad teeth or rave about andy clarks gore.. but they don't & its my tough shit for being behind in reading, so i join in with the week old left overs, whatever tag theyve got on.

Frankly the amount of off topic posting is choking this forum.  The format of the forum doesn't help this as the sections aren't "fenced" off. I've often wondered why 2000ad online doesn't use one of the Invision type boards. Surely it would be much easier to manage, look more presentable ,organised and heaven forbid be less intimidating for new posters.

Segregating off-topic threads doesn;t seem to have worked, but an option to "view by category" which divided the messgae list into General, Off-topic, Website etc... etc... might work well in adition to the current view, which is organised by date.

Some new categories might help as well, "Film", "Other Comics", "TV" etc...

It's already possible to segregate by category.

Click on the down arrow next to Summary at the top of the message board, then choose the time period you want, and then press Select Messages.

Mmm. I forgot about that. It's not exactly the nicest interface in the world for doing that though, is it? Folder icons and links, with a little bit of helpful info like wether or not theres any new messages in there might be better.

Alternatively, and this is what I'd favour, you could show all the messages but just sort them by category rather than date - sort of like the view with off-topic segregated, but with ALL the categories sorted into they're own nice little areas.

I find Invision type boards intimidating.

"Frankly the amount of off topic posting is choking this forum"

Whereas I'd say it it's a lack of on-topic posting that's the problem.  Frankly, I'd be bored out of my mind if there were no off-topic threads as there aren't enough on-topic threads to sustain my interest.

Maybe a bit less whining about off-topic posting and a bit more on-topic posting in its place is the answer?

I've just spent a couple of hours coding and come up with the extra layer I've been thinking about for ages. This should help solve the off topic issue, but allows people to go back to the old view with a simple chat room command.

Is it my imagination or does this take longer to load? I'm sure it shouldn't since it has less work to do.

Cheers,

Wake

Weird. It seems to be a lot slower from here.

Any change? I've just combined the database call to count the number of messages in each category with the one to find the last poster.

Wake

Still taking an age to load I'm afraid. i'm not sure thsi one is quite ready for prime time :-)

Definately heading in the right direction though, IMHO.

I've switched the default back to the summary view while I tinker a bit more (not tonight). The separate category view can be accessed by typing /bbsorder 3 in the chat room

Cheers,

Wake

How about a layout sort of like this?

I was looking for an on-topic for a feed question this morning and all I could really opt for was, HELP!

I think there needs to be a lot more diversity in your on-topic subjects.Charactors;Storylines;Covers;Artists;Films/TV
so on,then....Off-topic.

just a suggestion/thought Id get it in early so it can slide off,unless the feedback is for arts suggestion.

That looks pretty nice and would be easy enough to do, but I think the problem would be that most of the categories would require quite a bit of scrolling to reach, which was the main argument against the design with off-topic segregated.

Cheers,

Wake

Wake,
What about taking Art's idea, but on the right hand side of the subject heading, there is a minimise/maximise button.... All subjects are minimised by default.

I've just solved the download problem with the category version, with the only downside being that unused categories are not displayed at all.

If you don't like the new front end (which is primarily aimed at newbies I guess) then type /bbsorder 3 in the database chat room to go back to the old version

Wake

You can also go back to the old view on a once only basis by viewing the summary of teh last 7 days.

Cheers,

Wake

If you don't like the new front end (which is primarily aimed at newbies I guess) then type /bbsorder 3 in the database chat room to go back to the old version

Which I've done, but surely the default should be the old layout? Then if you want it any other way you can change it quite easily. From the comments made on the various threads it appears (to me at least) that the majority of us prefer the board the way it is. By all means, give the dissatisifed a way to change the way that they view the board but if I was a newcomer to the board I'd run a mile at the site of that new layout!

Horrid, horrid....

stroke of genuis this new format wake
WELL DONE.
thanks for the hard work.

Okay, I've typed /bbsorder 3 in the chat room and got the old message board format back. Thanks for advice, lads.

I'm with the lanky fool- it looks (and I'm sorry to say it) shit.  IMHO.

Sorry.

Let the whiners change their view if they want.  Actually, I don't give a toss.  I'm viewing it the old fashioned way now, so I can do a Scojo and say 'I told you so' when nobody new bothers with the place...

;)

bbsorder 3 doesn't get it back to normal on a Mac, btw. :(

Not too keen on it tbh Wake.

Are you forgetting to type / in /bbsorder or are you using the V2 chat room?

If it's the latter, I'll fix that in a moment.

Cheers,

Wake

o my gosh you guys need to get over yourselves... no offence  :)

And having been here all of five minutes, you need to mind your own fucking business.

:)

but surely the default should be the old layout?

The reason that the new layout is the default is because I believe that the old layout is the best one for regular posters, but the new one might well be better for people who come here on a more infrequent basis, and also gives a better overview for someone who has barely posted at all and probably wouldn't even notice the different categories in the old view.

So far 19 people have switched to the old view, and 5 are on 'ordered by message thread' which was the previous default view.

I'm open to suggestions as to how to make the category view better, but I think it is a worthwhile step for some people. Whenever someone comes here and asks why we don't use Ikonboard or whatever, the only function they ever seem to be able to come up with which this board doesn't (didn't) have is the extra layer.

I'll probably switch back to the old view myself in the near future.

Cheers,

Wake

Ah! I *am* using the old chat room (a necessity for Netscape still). That'll be it. Cheers Wake.

I think...

I'd have the old layout for people who wanted it.

The new layout needs to just look nicer, and when you go into each topic, you should find the same amount of threads in each one.

Plus you probably want to have some more 2000AD orientated Groups.  Such as Prog, Meg, 2000AD General, that sort of thing, to distinhuish 2000AD from other stuff.

I agree with the subject groups, but thread starters would have to be more vigilant in using the right ones.

(A quick visit to the new chatroom has sorted the board for me now) :)

Ordering stuff by category can work - see 2000AD Review for proof.

However, there are areas of that site that I never really wander into, probably missing out on all sorts of interesting stuff...

I could make each Category have the same number of posts in it (not the same number of threads so easily), but that would mean that some Categories would view threads from far further back in time than others.

I don't want to make lots of new categories. If anything perhaps some categories could be collapsed into others. Other_comics is a definite possibility though, and General could be renamed 2000AD_General

Wake

Anyone who hates this, and it bears repeating, go into the database chatroom and type /bbsorder 3

i am with wake
his pionts make sense.  

i am likely to go and get the old format by weeks end on my default. but i think it does answer the concerns that have been raised. let new boarders entertain themselves without the other stuff which may make it seem a bit daunting.



 

thanks for the welcome john

;)

all i meant was that the way the place looks neither here or there there are some very funny people here... i have been reading this board for some time and what it looks like doesnt matter its the messeges that matter... i dont understand why all the people have been fighting over nothing like this...

still an attack from john in my first day posting is an honour sir

:)

If there was only some way we could have even more categories... some way of further subdividing the threads into groups... very small groups... perhaps even an unique group for each thread... which you could identify by some kind of information that was contained within... like a subject...
hmmm, it'd never work! ;)

I've seen the way categories work on some larger messageboards for things like particular PC games where you have maybe a minimum of 50-60 punters on it permanently. They have a main page where you can see the kind of volume of people on each section. However, I don't think there are enough people using the board to justify having the sheer number of different categories (maybe some stats here could be helpful). The 2000AD Review site only has a few categories, something like 2000AD, non-2000AD comics, and general. If it is determined that the categories are the way of the future, I think fewer categories would be the way to go.

In the meantime I think I will be reverting to the old style board when I get a minute, as it is far too much effort to trawl through all the different sections at the moment.

I think that reducing the number of categories is just as important as adding to them.

BTW, so far 46 boarders and 6 greys have moved back to the old style index. At a guess about 18 people have posted on the board today and are still viewing the category version.

Wake

I like the new stylee myself.

That's Johnny- and you'd know all about it if you'd been "attacked".

Leeeeeave i'! Iss not wiiiiiiiirth i'!

How do I get back to the category view?

I foolishly changed to the old view to remind my self what I was missing.

/bbsorder 1 resets the category view

Cheers,

Wake

Thanks - i got there by trial and error.

I think I'll use this as an effective "time management tool".  I'll set times when I'm allowed in certain zones...

funtwangle
WELCOME TO THE BOARD
emotions are running a bit high of late. now and then they do.
but its still the best place on the WWW.it really is.

suggestion for any whom think it mayu work
i have put the old style message board on my Faves list. so when i log in,i get the new style.

when im feeling like a good laugh a debate, or just a look i click the list favourites listing.
so i now get both styles at a single click of the mousse.

works for me. you should try it.
WAKE im on the list of useing the orignal style message board.

and dont intend to cut my use down one little bit. :~)

An indication of what thread was posted to last might be a beter use of the space than "Last Poster".

An indication of what thread was posted to last might be a beter use of the space than "Last Poster".

Done. You can now get to the latest thread within each category from the category index.

Wake

I mostly lurk rather than post, but I kind of like it the way it was.

You won't find a bigger tooth fan than me, but surely variety is the spice of life? If you don't like off-topic threads, then ignore them

I'm actually finding the category view quite handy now.

Just a minor niggle: For some reason when I click on the link title (as opposed to the category) I don't get to see teh links to other pages of a link.

I'd also make the minor suggestion that the categories be ordered by most recent post rather than alphabetitcally. It seems a bit weird that admin is always at the top.

just curious - why don't you use an invision type board?

why don't you use an invision type board?

It's probably never going to happen - the boards code is way to entangled with the code that makes the rest of the site work - for instance you have to log in to post on the board or vote on a  prog, and the same user IDs ae used for both.

If Invision has any features you'd really want to see in the 2000ad board you could try posting them under "suggestions".